School Committee: November 3, 2025

Transcript captured from YouTube auto-captioning. No speaker labels; proper names and dollar figures occasionally misheard. Click any timecode to jump to that moment in the source video.

0:22 Can I have an okay?

0:30 » We can I think we could turn that this thing off. So Henry is that I go back I go to the YouTube one is where I » Yeah. And I hit the little micros the little speaker button and » Yeah. Okay. Thank you.

0:59 » Okay. Uh, I call the meeting to order at 10:01 a.m. on November 3rd, 2025. Uh, this meeting is being recorded.

1:14 So, our first uh order of business is finalizing the evaluation that we of our superintendent that we had mostly completed at our last meeting. Um, Melissa, we wanted to just give you an opportunity because I know you had left a little early. if there’s anything you wanted to edit from the draft that we created. » The only question I had was on the first one, like telling the stories. I like the idea of that one, but I feel like he fell short on his one last year for like sending out surveys and like setting the baseline of how we were going to measure it. So, do we need to be more specific with like basically we’re saying create and execute a storytelling program. He has to set something up.

2:01 » I That’s my only concern with that one. I don’t know if you guys had something specific. » You’re talking about the district of Philadelphia. We’re talking about the goal his goal » professional practice which Yeah. » Oh, sorry. » The school. » The school committee goals. I was wondering. Yeah. » No, I’m good. » You’re good. Okay. Um All right. So then we’ll um » make a motion to approve this. » I’ll second. » All right. Um so a motion made by Jen, seconded by Melissa. Um all those in favor. All right. The motion motion passes P passes five to zero.

2:47 » And the motion, just for the record, was to approve the uh evaluation of Superintendent John Robidoux. for the period ending maybe 10:31 maybe 10:31 end yeah end of October » 25

3:25 Okay. Okay. Um, so the next item is uh to work, you know, to create uh the superintendence goals this upcoming year. » Before we move on for that, can I just ask a question? So, we should probably give this to him. I don’t know if you already have or not. » Um, [clears throat] » well, probably not because we just, right? So, we should supply we should give him a copy to send it to him. » Yes, I will send him a copy. » And then will this be on our next agenda? » Thursday’s agenda. Yes. » This coming Thursday to deliver. » Yes. » I don’t think it’s I mean technically um we we don’t necessarily have to read it into the record, but we might we might want to, but I don’t think we need to spend a lot of time on it. Like it’s » was previous meeting really was the » So, I know we discussed this a little bit, but I I thought what we had had

4:12 talked about and agreed upon was I would almost read » read into the record at that meeting. » Yeah. » But not I mean not saying not talk about Yeah. It’s saying you can stop anybody from deliberating, but we’re not. We voted it, so we’re not » We shouldn’t be anymore. Yeah. Deliberation. » So, that’s this. Okay. » Yeah. » All right. Um, let me go get John. We needed a few. » Probably should give it to him. » I was just to talk about his his goals. » Yeah. Just give him a copy of it. All right. I can send it to him.

5:13 Maybe we should put when we do, we should put these balls up here. I don’t see

5:28 » See, he’s coming. I was just looking for the » the device to shut this thing off, but » Oh, it’s

5:41 makes you think you’re doing something and actually » elevator button. » Elevator button. » Close. Yeah. Have a closed door.

6:25 » Um, do we have an end time today? » Noon.

6:32 the the posting is till one. » You don’t have to post an answer in » I mean with the zoom I mean just in terms of the the zoom when you go to the zoom it it it’ll show 10 to one.

7:04 » Waiting for John. » Oh, I have I’m sorry. I do have hard copies that he gave me. » You’re not sharing your screen with the public. Are you email? » Probably. [laughter] Thank you. Thank you. » You’re welcome. I always get nervous when I think a different window. I’m like, » I’m scared. Be careful there. » I just Yeah, a few minutes ago there was Coca Melon on there.

8:00 It is interesting. I I do think Melissa that » that is just this being shared on the screen. What what you’re seeing now is Yeah. two separate things. » Did he give you these? » Yes. » The first one I know he’s not here. We could ask it, but I think these are technically it’s due 12:31, isn’t it? Is it a graduation requirement? » Determination policy is due. Yes.

8:39 and yeah, again, the professional practice goals, he wanted to get our input as to whether that should be more collaborative or whether he should offer something. and and then we edit it. So

9:38 » They have a a big container at the police stations.

9:44 They’re taking you can also take it to spur and they’re putting it with um like things where » it’s like behind

10:05 » us » us like

10:12 takes otherwise I’ll end up eating Yeah. Not. » So, John, is there a specific one you want us to start with? » So, um I I kind of put them in backwards. So, it’s three three two one. Um so, the student learning go a question before we jump into this. » Um I have been through this and read through it and I’m still a little bit lost in terms of this summit of evaluate like the whole process here. one has these three main goals, right? » But then there’s all we were talking about this there’s all this these other sort of sub goals » so how how does that roll up to the goal? I mean how what has your been what has been your

10:58 » So I mean think about a little bit um the the um the rest of it is really the standards. So like those those are the standards are set by you know the state saying that we have to make sure we have the fiscal management and all that stuff. And it’s hard because there’s no way to like really in my opinion there’s no way to like address every standard effect all of a sudden. I mean that’s all I really do all day long. » So it’s more like it’s kind of some of it’s anecdotal like you look at and say well you know the standard for » well it says like for instance say standard indicators are for effective use relationship superintendent should you identify one to two focus indicators per standard. » Yeah. So you know we didn’t do that last year. So I mean I I you know I don’t think I mean maybe before we do that and

11:43 that more focus on how we uh you know which which are addressed

11:50 like probably good for you guys to tell me hey what what’s some of the evidence from that for those things right the goals are pretty straightforward I think you know and then um [clears throat] some of the dovetails like for instance like um some of some of the standards you know fist management standards this help some of the but um you know it’s more more like you guys tell me like for deliverables for some like hey show me this in order for me to understand you at that standard and like like for instance with the teachers several years ago and I I don’t know if they had done it in Marblehead but several years ago the evaluation piece came out most districts went through like a million a million

12:37 standard million touch points we did um you know what we would be using which one focus on and then did that a lot a lot of districts did that and then they updated that they had updated that and so kind of realized there was a lot of redundancy and it’s supposed to dovetail with mine but again it’s still a lot of redundancy and it doesn’t kind of necessarily match exactly what the teachers illustrated so um that’s all all of that is to say that’s thought process behind teacher head of vowels, administrative vows, superintendent of vowels. I don’t think they had the will and kind of made it all kind of mesh, you know. So, it doesn’t it kind of doesn’t align the thinking.

13:22 So, it’s more, you know, I mean, I’ve been through a million different school committees and they all do different by no one way to do it. I’ve had school committees say like that’s what the goals are and then, you know, um they’ve either talk to administrators or maybe survey the administrators. Hey, how do you think John does in these areas? Um, sometimes they do, sometimes they don’t. Sometimes it’s anecdotal, sometimes they get you not guessed, but just based upon my you know school committee meetings and presentations and all stuff like say special ed student services have all that kind of come together.

14:03 So it kind of funnels down that way. So there’s really no one cookie cutter way to the best way inside. I think it depends on if you » I think when you’re looking at like looking at the form it does say and this is just the form to align to one focus indicator and I think that it might be helpful for you to pick one or who because it allows us to focus our comments on maybe things that you think you might value feedback on that » um you know if you’re saying oh it’s really important for that I’m making datainformed decision making then then that allows us to say

14:51 okay well now we know that we can focus our our feedback on that specific thing and not have to talk about something that maybe isn’t as valuable to you » would the com would the committee be comfortable in you doing this together today or Yeah, the goals and then maybe also go through I mean I don’t think it would be a huge exercise but maybe together » or you you know suggest that when we walk out of here we’ve got the goals and we’ve got one to two focus indicator I mean it’s only at most that we would need » yeah I don’t think we have to go that we should move forward on the new goals not go back

15:34 » but that’s so that we are that great if we don’t do it today you know might not get in that way. But I don’t know if is the committee comfortable with that. » I also think we should talk about whether we want to do another one year review cycle or whether we want two year because that is an option that’s available to us and I think as we’re setting goals and picking footprints indicators that’s something we should also do. You could also do um not to belabor this point but you could do a effectively a you know 18month bold which would be say from October of 25 to May or June of 20 um 11 um which kind of get you back on that

16:19 track and it also gets back to the sitting committee doing the evaluation in say June or whatever before the election you have had in and we didn’t know anybody. » No, I think that you like that. » No, I like that idea. We kind of get that a little bit um just to see again I’m fine with whatever makes sense. I had one I’ve done it differently. I’ve done it October October. I’ve done it in June. I don’t know. But yeah, the election’s done kind of » shouldn’t be the driving factor, but it didn’t because you know like » Yeah. One other thing I forgot to throw out there bearing the lead here. Um, and John is in here, but I forgot to mention this last time that um, for the

17:07 committee to consider um, either now or at some point um, at any point whether you we want we want to extend John’s contract. So, that’s also an option, right? John has the three-year contract. Um, but it is possible to extend the contract um, up to four years or five years. So, I’m not saying that right now, but um I don’t mean John can certainly similarly dismiss that, but if he doesn’t, um it’s something to consider at all. And it can by the way, it can happen at any point. Um I I think I would just throw it out there as consideration. Um I would suggest that if it is going to be considered at some point and it also could be conversations offline with the chair and this but um you might not want to wait till June the 27. » Yeah.

17:52 » Yeah. No, I appreciate that. I think you know there’s always there’s always benefits to having that conversation. I think um one I appreciate that conversation and feels like there’s some confidence in what I’m doing suggested you know and that’s why I think you know technically you know six years on a contract or five months a couple travel so I mean I would be you know you inhabitant. I don’t know if that’s that’s at some point. Um I think that you know there’s there’s some things

18:38 that you know consider even within this three year um time frame with my community and stuff. Um and but if we said definitely have to exe whatever » well the reason why I throw it out there too is that it um you know just given the history of what we’ve been through in this district I feel like we’re at a point you know we’ve got some consistency we’ve got some um you know experience at the helm um things seem to be um you know leveling out which means you know we’re now able to move forward with the district improvement plan moving forward um with competency requirements, graduation requirements can be key. Um the more stability that this community can have, you know, school district and

19:23 a superintendent is only the better for everyone and that will allow that. And you know, we’re one year into this, you know, we’re in the first year, so it’s not it would be, you know, basically extending it to a what would have would be a fighter contract. It would be simply formal, you know, formal year. So again, I just throw it out there. um for this committee to consider. » And I and I do appreciate one of that too. You know, with with the way superintendent goes in state, I mean, you know, obviously as a superintendent, I see a lot, you know, a revolving door. It’s u it’s tough because there’s you know there’s bouncing everywhere when I think of superintendent for whatever and that’s not that’s the norm is not having a

20:10 superintendent I don’t know for three you know three years is like an activity and when I first became superintendent six years is like was like golden for you know superintendent to be in one spot and that was 80 plus I don’t know I really don’t I like the be part of your creativity and stop. » And the other thing, again, I won’t belabor this. Um, in my experience, it so it does allow, you know, kind of long long-term planning. Um, and you can start having the conversation with John, you know, at some point where there at that point you want to extend or if you think maybe not, then you can talk about succession plan. Um, and also the other thing I would note is that typically, Representative W, you don’t necessarily have to be including increase in pay in that contract. So you extend the length

20:58 of the contract but that each year the I believe you can » yeah you can you can make it like well if you extend that contract two years out » to be determined each year because you know you don’t have to commit to a particular increase or potential increase in paying not knowing you know the budget. Um » I believe his current contract is set up that way but yeah debt to huge. » All right. So, John, just as we as we start, um, are you going to keep the edits that you need to make to your versus » make any changes to » Oh, yeah. » Okay. [clears throat] » Um, you want to start? » Yeah, sorry. Let’s do the goals then we

21:43 can go back and do that. » Um, » which one you want to start with? » I think um » Okay. So um points not lost on me that you know there’s been a lot of conversation about student achievement and growth and how we are we looking at that. So I draft this as well and I and this is not very draftable so you know that we maybe elaborate or whatever but um so basically it’s incumbent upon the administrator to ensure that we have ways to access assess student achievement and growth um beginning in the early grades and carry throughout graduation and pass as a premise is more important that we address ways to ensure students are meeting Santa and exactly

22:28 about kids in both ways. Um I think looking at um how educators will say, “Oh, I know my kids are valuable. We really need to get to the indicators of you know that piece. We need to look at not just what the teacher says their strengths and weaknesses, but how do we measure over?” So be looking at um the academic and social emotional achievement. It’s important that we align those with our high expectations and ways to share um student growth and achievement measuring both we are using across the district and how those are chosen and utilized. So you know with with cast obviously as one touch point I’m throw out and about that as a graduation we really need to start looking at that but leading up to you know there’s a lot of you know I would provide this as part of my evidence but like a lot of assessments we’ve been to face school at you know wayinder

23:14 assessments for social emotional learning you know so on and so forth but um we’ve we’ve put into place and a lot of those is you know different curriculum too with the assessments in so that updated and you know their little curriculars or science and all those along with with the tools as well. So um so I already measured the goal we measure the high ongoing meetings and special administrators data teams guidance with our instructional coaches professional developments we do with frequent providers ensure that we have appropriate venues a lot for educator will be important measures um place across the district soon assessment and council the sus

24:01 measure it um and then the evidence sentence from the will be data gathered from the data teams administrating successful results ongoing conversations building based educators and administrators comparing student growth year over year success assessment and student um time goals that we meet earning professional development ELC time student performance this above the ending students specific assessment results by benchmarks throughout the year by the end of the school year decent research based assessments by student that Ohio

24:42 overall you know we touched on some of that you know during the past presentation we touched on some of that stuff um my my goal would be to let’s take some deeper dive some more reporting out um of those you know benchmark assessments so you know quarters trimesters whatever um they have some conversations at the school committee level like where are what we do and how we do levels. Um, you know, a lot of that with our Julia and her teams, they manage most of that stuff, but my role be to make sure that all those things are continuing to happen that they’re having the conversations that we looking at that and how we address those within the box within.

25:29 within. within. That’s the overarching goal that you want to go go by goal. » I think it’s easier than each goal. » Yeah. » On the on the measurement of this goal, I think my challenge with it is that ongoing need and discussion is not really hard data that we can measure year-over-year and then the evidence that we have is comparing student growth year-over-year. So, I think the extent to which we can be specific about what assessments andor data so that it’s something we can actually look at on a year-over-year basis to see how it’s trending versus just conversations which I think can it’s helpful context but it’s hard to actually measure and how they’re changing over time. » Um,

26:15 I like this goal. This is a lot of what I’ve been thinking about. Um, I think two things within it. one would be specifically what we’ve been looking at at the high school level where I think it was pretty clear from the incast presentation that that is not a reliable necessarily a reliable indicator the way it might still be for some of the younger grades. So, what are the options available at the high school level? And then I’d be curious whether this goal can be used to help the school sort of assess our financial investment in different curriculum. So, you know, we’re a couple years into a new math program, a new, you know, the Whiten wisdom program. Was that is that a way

27:02 we can see some evidence of you know student growth is » trending up with this or you know on the previous cycle maybe we need to be looking for a different product and I think that’s not what’s benefic

27:29 for for updates. to the school committee which I think are really updates to the community. Like I think that intense presentation really well. I think more of that you know built into into you know kind of benchmarks in the in the school year would help not not just us understand but the community understand how the schools are doing throughout the year. » Yeah. And I think I’ve mentioned that before. I think it’s important and you know honestly never really got off the ground this past year was you know just the way that committees kind of hand out from the leading time the way I in my previous life I would do that you know you know at least to say hey here’s where I am with my goals here’s where I’ve fallen short here’s where you exceeding here’s you know belief or

28:16 thoughts because for me I would rather know from you all what you think is going well and it’s not something that’s not going well in the moment or supposed to end the moment as possible not until the end when me doing my evaluation say no you stunk the fact go you didn’t achieve it like you know and I share this when I when I evaluate administrators like nothing was a surprise if it’s a surprise that I did my job so I feel same with you guys with the committee um that you know back so I would um and whatever that looks like » yeah I think weekly is or not weekly, but monthly is a lot. Yeah, I think » um and I think it would help » if those check-in dates were sort of

29:01 aligned to the school year in a way that makes sense to the parents. » Yeah. » Um » Um I think just go around. It doesn’t. Yeah, that’s fine. So, where were we? » Yeah, I think it’s to you. » Is it to me? Um, yeah, a little bit what Melissa was saying like the PD we know is good stuff, but as this is written, are we doing that already? Do we have to do it more? Do we It’s not clear to me how to measure that. » Um, and again, I obviously student growth year-over-year is important, but it’s

29:47 insular, right? Not, you know, let’s say our student growth is doing what we think is pretty well, right? Well, what if other schools that we should be comparing ourselves are doing much better or double that? That’s that should be measurable and something that we need to focus on. » I put that in the back. [laughter] I did. I would like » I also think too like John before you put something back in, it should be somewhat the will of the committee too. So, all right. Um, oh, the other thing that I I heard clear, especially with the high school, was absenteeism and and its ability to really affect student outcomes. So, I’m wondering if we have we should have something specific around that.

30:34 I’m done. I’m done. » Um, so a couple things. Thanks for being as well. Um so name of the goal I think whether it’s under the name of the summary I think it needs to be a little bit more um uh detailed as to academic achievement student growth. What does that mean? Um because this summary or description is a little sort of um vague in a way. I I’m I just I’m just one would like to see something more like um you know during this 18month period looking to um you know affect academic you know increase academic achievement and student growth and measure it and report

31:19 it something like that like some clear like one or two sentence for probably for each of these goals. That’s what I I would like to see um in regards to the um reporting whether it’s the measure how you measure the evidence. I would like to see an explanation or a almost like a maybe a bullet point of what it is that you are using to measure because I don’t I I don’t have students in the district anymore so I don’t know I vaguely remember stuff but there’s MCAST there’s I ready there’s » Dibbles I how you know there’s a bunch of stuff so what is it if we could get a list of what it is you’re using to measure or you’re building the principles you’re using to measure and then that should be rolled up to us in a quarterly some sort of frequent some

32:04 sort of frequency during the school year that coincides with that » that that med um testing that you do. So maybe let’s say it’s let’s just say it’s or let’s say it’s trimesters. Let’s say it’s every 3 months or nine months or 10 months full year. Maybe the first one you’re going to report, you know, I ready results and the second one you’re going to report MCCAST results and whatever it is um that each building principal presents and anything else that you want to you know throw in the in the soup um as to how you’re measuring and that can be up to your principles. But I think we should know what that is and know when we’re going to hear it. » Um » get as specific as possible where it’s coming. » Yeah. Um and and included in that is the compare. I agree with the comparisons to

32:49 the other school districts. You can pick what school or we can collaborate on it, but we sort of rely on you. Um I do think that we need to be focused on special education. Um I do know the other night like you know um Lisa Marie had like one or two slides. But I think that need there there needs to be kind of a holistic approach because the special education I think is very um for parents that are special parents they’re sort of you know like neck deep in all that and if you’re not a special education parent you have no idea what that means and what that means to our to our results and it has an effect on it. So I think it’s important for everyone to understand. I know it’s

33:36 sensitive to talk about, but it needs to be explained to the community, you know, that there are students that um that struggle and that’s in all of in these measurements. And then and and I’m sure Lis Marie has we could even lend one entire reporting meeting to her » in her world. Um I’m going to suggest I’m going to push back on the absenteeism in that and guys jump in if you think I’m wrong. Absenteeism is a

34:07 is a um sounds like it’s a chronic issue that’s affecting our results, but you’re dealing like we have a policy around absenteeism. We have a handbook around absenteeism. You’re frankly responsible on your team for like dealing with this. I think reporting to us is maybe fine, but like and if you need us to change a policy, that’s fine, but we’re not responsible for the absenteeism is a little bit » like they you know principal

34:35 » goal versus » I would I mean informs you right um but it is it is a type of thing was talking about the other day like it’s been chronically chronic it wasn’t just around like the absolution of the you know the makeup day of it wasn’t just around the caps like we so how do we yeah how do we address that that’s Yeah, that’s a little more systemic than you know superficial and those you know one of the things where you know that’s that’s uh that’s that’s Shell’s team especially to kind of teams into captured in here but » and for for what it’s worth in terms of

35:23 academic achievement student growth it um and so some of that may also particularly to K’s point of high school which I think is very important and I’d like to see like you know AP results number of students taking AP those because part of what for this academic achievement is also college readiness 97% or 8% of our students particularly to college we effectively are a college preparatory high school um and so what are the other and there are measurements around SAT scores ACT scores AP um uh that all informs whether our students are ready for college and we do hear back from students we also hear about the fact that we don’t do midterms is an issue for some returning college students saying I wasn’t prepared because they didn’t have midterms. Um

36:09 and so I think that you know that would definitely be helpful. Um I personally would like to see this isn’t necessarily under this goal but I’ve asked for this for years is to be informed as to where we are sending our students everywhere we’re sending them not who but where um are going to which you know which colleges and where else military uh you know » you know whatever you know wherever else our students are going I think that’s all part because if you drop down to the um the evidence is the next And you know, I guess the evidence, it’s all about communicating. And to Henry, your point, your giving us this information. We’re just simply a conduit to the » to the community. I mean, yes, it informs us on some decisions, but your

36:54 reporting to us is is after the fact from the decisions we’ve made » and maybe will um inform future decisions, but it’s a moment in time, which is just simply a way to communicate to the public. Um, if I could to Jen’s point, I know from Julia that is it AREAd, the data program that now has the ability for her to get data on how our students are doing in college. And I would be interested in figuring out a way to incorporate that into the reporting that we’re getting. » Self-reporting? how they » I’m not totally sure, but um you know, but to the extent maybe it can be coupled with some reporting on like this is where our students are going and the evidence of how they’re doing when they get there. » I mean, one thing that’s always stuck out at me because I didn’t go to public

37:40 high school, I went to school and so it’s a different obviously different animal. We have alumni relations. It’s about money, but um they point that they private institutions can’t hang on to the information and are in contact with their graduates. We are not. We never have been. And I know public schools don’t forget that, but is there some way that we try to hang on? I mean, the class officers do because they have reunions and they, you know, they stay in touch for social reasons, but um is there any way to try to be ballistic or something? The the only mechanism currently that I’m aware of is with the specialized students that there’s an indicator that you have to follow up with them postgraduation post most you know post 22 not graduation of where they are what they’re doing blah but that’s

38:26 still like a year out that kind of dissipates. So » I mean I just cur it’s it’s just of a long-term project I’ve often thought about even a senior project like your officers do believe me stay in touch. I’m old and my class officers from Marblehead High School are still the class officers and they do stay in touch um with students. So there is a conduit you know I don’t know whether there’s way to be able to get maybe better data » um in terms of success of students you know most of it I think is anecdotal you know at this point » my assumption based on what Julia said is that you know colleges are also using this data platform and so that there’s some » maybe they’re sharing it in there but I’m not I mean

39:11 » right » right yeah thanks so

39:17 back um from your graduates » in aggregate. Yeah, that could be. Yeah. » So, I’m kind of curious too. » And also specifically at the high school, I think AP scores are a great way of looking at things, but also, you know, what metrics what metrics exist for our students who are not taking AP classes, they’re not taking those exams. So what you know what do we have that we can look at for their performance? I I know we said we were going to uh come back to this, but as we’ve been discussing this, I’ve been looking at the sort of focus areas and a lot of the comments that we’ve made sort of align to one or two of these, you know. So, I

40:02 think in in revising the goals with the comments we’ve made, it might make sense to to look at some of the focus areas. you know, there’s one for assessment, there’s one for data informed decision making, and » probably not a bad idea because um I can just tag them on the bottom and just say, you know, » yeah. » yeah. » Yeah. And and then like as you’re making the these revisions, include specific languages if » Well, there’s one E is » Yeah. One E and one C. one C for assessment, you know, but and then there’s one F for student learning, but it’s very sort of » Yeah. And I think whatever whichever

40:49 ones we’re all sort of making the same comments that that align with those specific focus areas. So, » that’s helpful. » So, I would say any, you know, maybe » in one C. Yeah. Assessment and data. Those were the ones I was. » Yeah, that makes sense. We agree with that. » Yeah. » Good idea. Great. You know what’s going on. » So, is the idea that maybe you could back » Yes. I’ll have to » Yeah. Um

41:21 » Yeah. The good thing is is Yes. I think I think if I incorporate pretty much everything we talked about, it’ll align with those. » Yep. Great. Um and thinking back

41:37 to to my school so of course that’s something they kind of saw once in a superintendent I work with in the past used to was very good at communicating um and used to provide um at each of our school committee meetings most of the stuff was in writing like the difference in district update inviting and then would have that literally a thought like this what I just gave you this along the way that your goal and indicator so it’s just you know it is something to think about because then we could actually at the end of the year you can also

42:32 All right. And then the district improvement goal. Um, so kind of, you know, everything ends up dvailing, right, some way or another, right? Districtwide instructional learning work. Do I just put that in there? Um, so we’re really focusing on the principles needing to be the instructional leaders of their school. Going to be a lot background. A lot of times I’m just like, “Oh, I’m here. I’m trying to manage a day and dushing in this goes back to student achievement. It goes back to how we grow and how we become better schools with more rigor. Um, and is really pushing the principles to be the instructional leader of the school. So, some of the principles are doing better than others and some might really dig into the data.” So that so we’ll you know just go

43:20 off today. So in that regard, I um instructional learning walks is something that a lot of districts do and what what we what we do is um so basically each principle would schedule time at their other their colleagues buildings throughout the year at least two times but you know we had ongoing discussions but schedule their meetings and then they would go and they they go to the other school and they look for specific areas of instructoral leadership instructoral strategies that’s meant that they would go to evidence those in the other schools and then the thought process being like hey that’s going you know I’m lover school can I detail what I’m doing here help the transition and so on so that’s kind of that was the that’s the backdrop behind the learning work so realistically looking make sure

44:07 that the emphasis within individual buildings are meaningful and align with the district practices and that all all students instructional needs are being met I think the other piece is there’s five buildings And I I hate when districts operate in silos and this happens a lot. Just principles get very myopic about their building and they it takes a while to kind of say not just operating by yourself in your own building. We’re we’re going to have conversations. We’re have common have assessments that make sense at at both schools. So like lover and brown shouldn’t be operating totally separate like obviously there’s certain things in their build they have to be you know marries a different person. But the common language should be common like if we’re doing something first grade there, it should be similar first

44:53 grade there and so on and so forth. That takes a while to get to. But I think even from last year to this year, we’ve made some progress in that that in that area. But the learning walks is kind of another conduit to making sure those happen when we’re having really pointed conversations uh time in each other’s buildings coming back to our admin having conversation. What have you seen? What what was what was good? share what you saw from practice, hopefully how can we see that when I go to the building that replicate that, bring that back in the building. So that’s kind of where this all um came from. So, it’s really all about being having cohesive expectations, make sure it’s collaboration, um, and making sure that um, we’re uh, having instructional

45:38 practice, the research base, you know, and making sure detail time is transition grades and goals become more sy. Um, again, I always some the measuring of goals I always struggle with, but it’s kind of, you know, it’s easy when it’s like, you know, business. Yeah. Um it’s it’s far it’s kind of not always as tangible. So I do get sometimes still um so you probably have the same feedback here where you know we’re having meaning conversations um and one specific piece my evaluation principles I have very very specific conversations with them and evaluative things around were you in the building? If so, yes, how and

46:24 how. And if you need scenarios of product development, where are they and what needs to be different? that kind of comes out in the evaluation studies kind of the measurement how I measure the goal. Um and then uh I mean the evidence you know being the schedule knowing walks sharing their experiences ongoing um ways to enhance instructional practices provide evidence um and I can get much specific

46:55 out and um I do I do uh you know goal setting meetings like I did all the principal I married this afternoon all principles to set their goals and then I meet them then mid year. Yeah, we have a lot of conversations and discussions but I do a specific hey how do you do goals like for me I want to do that school community meeting or whatever I do at least that meet there very specific sit down the goals let’s go along those so and then evaluate them

47:28 where the areas of strength will be that’s kind of overarching goal

47:37 start backwards. start backwards. » Sure. [laughter] » Um, okay. So, um, I think that this is a bigger goal than what you’ve described here necessarily, right? So, districtwide instructional learning watch to me is a tactic um versus a strategic goal, right? So I’m thinking that and this makes sense because it did hit home with me just as I was reading this that this idea of well I don’t know power is the right word empowering and setting the expectation that the building principles are going to um be the building leaders and and manage um the instructional or and instructional leaders in their

48:24 building is that should be the goal » and then how you get there one of which is learning walks » right but I think it could be more than that. So, I’m going to go put on my, you know, I had to put on before. So, one of the things that we used to have years ago were curriculum directors. Curriculum directors were administrators that were licensed and were responsible for developing curriculum, implementing curriculum and um observing and um managing teachers um teachers. So they would be the official observers and they would give they would be the supervisors of the teachers and give them back information. The screen directors were eliminated in the mid 2000s costs. So we went to this lead teacher model where we have lead teachers in either in the

49:09 buildings in grade level or other buildings and subject level that are paid a stipend to to provide instructional leadership within the building which you know is is great but they don’t have supervisory responsibilities. So they can they can be coaches and they can be mentors but they don’t actually supervise teachers license wise. The principles do right. So they are the instructional leaders. So I think that I feel like and again I’m just a you know on the outside I’m chief seats feel like some of that kind of structure has been lost a little bit in this model. Um so this there’s a lot of words to say like this whole idea of making the building principles the instructional leaders is great and to hopefully is to strengthen

49:56 that’s one area right would be to strengthen the feedback we’re giving teachers to make the teachers the best they can be so what I could envision is however we write this goal that um one of the measurements or or results could be principles coming to you and to us saying this is what I need for professional development this is what my teachers need like it’s informed formed based on on what they’re doing and what they’re sharing with each other. And I also could see um you know staff surveys. I don’t know how you feel about that. You know staff surveys giving you feedback as to how they’re the building leaders are doing. Um these are the ways that you would have to to measure it. And then um I also think that uh to have the building principles maybe

50:41 be a little bit more um I don’t know if involved is the right word but attend school committee meetings and and talk about the successes that they have in their buildings to be their the cheerleader. That would be a way to demonstrate you know demonstrate what’s happening with this um with your goal to make them the instructional stronger. They are the instructions but stronger inspections. » No, that’s all good. And I think yeah, you know, flip flipping it that flipping the script on that and changing the goal to more how we » I mean you have to structural leadership » massage the wording, right? But to you know because I think you wrote it you know somewhere you wrote this about » summary » the summary about making the principles because I think they [clears throat] I think the principles have they’ve they’ve been

51:28 sort of caught not caught but they’re between you know senior administration school committee and teachers and and parents and they they but they are the lynch pin to the success want them to feel that way. No, I get the feedback because I think you know I I recognized early on » I mean Mary Maxwell is a senior principal in district. » It’s kind of scary. » So um that’s scary and then so I recognize that right away like we need to do something to just everyone’s kind of on the same page having conversations and this was the learning from blue. Um, but I do think maybe we get flip-flopp a little bit to you

52:13 better. Um, so I I can certainly change the project of that. » Yeah, I guess that that helps me because I’m tr Jen was a huge upgrade, but I’m still somewhat underwhelmed [laughter] by this goal. » But what might help me become more wellelmed is like what is it solving? like do we have myopic principles right now or do we have inexperienced principles right now and if I don’t mean that to be judgmental but especially like the second if we have hey we know as a district we we have very young principles and this is the best time that you should be focusing because otherwise it’s should it’s just their job description to kind of do what we’re saying right here to me » so maybe maybe I make that more clearly goal because it’s both thing right so we have we have newer principles we have

52:59 veteran principles from a new newer to marble And so the culture of his model and and then like I said Mary Maxwell is our most senior principal in district which four years is really infancy » I have 18 20-year-old » you know bathroom principal. So which you know that becomes a whole other thing and they stuck in their ways and stuff. So this was a this was you know some of my early on stuff like how principles right um love saying that uh but I think the goal is to make sure that they’re not just managing the building that they’re actually have to buy that they’re and I said that they like how how they review that why there all things you said are

53:45 things we need this is what we need for PD we get it It’s, you know, we’re ready to kind of hit once that fightation. Um, you know, so I think, yeah, I’ll be in trouble, but um, so I don’t know. » Well, I think going back to the rubric, right? I’m I’m in uh performance assessment at my job right now. So, I’m gonna make this is all » but um you pick » I did. So I picked 1A which is a curriculum uh goal uh which is sort of about you know instructional it ensures that all instructional staff design effective and rigorous standardbased units of of

54:32 instruction consisting of well structured lessons with measurable outcomes. That one kind of but then there is 4E which is a shared vision goal which I think really is is a better scenario of this. I don’t know that we need to put two standards for everything » curriculum is it’s go but it’s a little bit more focus more I like on the teacher level I also looked at a » making sure that’s » I also looked at 2A which may not actually fit either which is develops and executes executive plans procedures routines and operational systems to address a full range of safety health emotional and social need probably not » yeah I mean I think we for this one maybe we just have one but again I think like

55:17 » the shar looking looking at the at the rubric as sort of what we’re going to be used to evaluate might help you you know with the language. » Yeah. And I think I think backwards design from that probably. Yeah. » Well, here’s another one under continuous learning which is right about it. Develops and nurtures a culture in which staff members are reflective about their practice and use student data. Current research best practices and theory to continuously adapt practice and achieve improve results. models these behaviors in his or her own practice. » That was 14. » Interesting that there isn’t a specific rubric here about like » all the different buildings like you know working working towards like rowing in the same direction working together. So I think that’s an indication that

56:05 this is a good goal because it’s it’s fresh and and important. » Yeah. Good. So yeah, I think all that’s good. So I think we like 4. » Yeah. » I said 4D, but you don’t. I mean, » I think that makes sense. Can

56:32 » Um, I agree with the other comments. I think as you revise, to me it would be important not lose the idea idea in here of cohesive practices across our buildings. Um, you know, when we talked about enrollment earlier in the year, you know, one of the things I heard from parents of my daughter’s age who chose to move their kids to charter was the number of transitions that kids in the district have to go through. And the more we can be not just aligned, but helping families understand that, you know, what happens at Village will be very familiar to what happened at either Glover or Brown because it was substantially similar at both. And then when you go on to vets. So I think it’s important, you know, we talked when the Brown School was being constructed about

57:19 we really moving from being a system of different schools to being a school district. And I think this is just the next step in doing that. » Yeah. » In fact, one of the things you you know what work, but you could factor into this goal is you’re talking about instructional leaders within their buildings um but also with these district learning walks which will be in there is um strengthening the transition years, right? three to four. By the way, it doesn’t have to be that many transitions, but the subjects

57:51 and I think Yeah. Yeah. I can add more about the

58:04 » evidence. » evidence. Go back just for a sec. Violating the process. Um Jen, Jen, I’m sorry. Just talk. That was that was a bad joke. Um, around the how to measure it. I think Jen mentioned it, but you know, I I’m always worried everything’s going to be measured by a survey, right? But it’s probably one of the few ways to truly measure this. And it shouldn’t be a survey of the principles, I don’t believe, [clears throat] right? It should be a survey of of the staff, right? And so, I just wanted to kind of reiterate that.

58:40 Yeah. Yeah. » There’s probably issues with that. » Potentially from » or collective bar to just check collective I don’t know if there’s an issue with collective bargaining. Sometimes » the issue is » yeah the issue is exactly were just going to say is that um people even though you say this is an anonymous survey they don’t ever believe it even though I have no way of seeing who did it. Um, and people aren’t as, you know, because of that they’re aren’t as, you know, whatever. Or they go the other way and they’re like, “Oh, this is my opportunity to just bash the crap out of this person.” Which is also because it’s always a, you know, bell curve. Um, what I ran into previously in in buildings that there’s a principal and an assistant principal, but a lot of them, they devi

59:28 you know, we’re going to do a survey on Chris Costa, you know, the principal, and then and the vice principal. like, well, Chris Costa doesn’t evaluate me. This person does. Then it’s like I have to try to figure out how to separate them. So, it end up being it sounds really simple, but it be a lot more complicated because well, I didn’t answer that that part of the survey because he’s not my evaluator. I can answer this other part, but I can answer this part. So, it’s also how you ask the survey. Are there other ways to we may not be there yet but to have actual conversations whether it’s style or » we can again it’s just I think this union is very um I think we lucky to do that because they use the word right a lot here

1:00:15 » I think anytime yeah and I think anytime you have the oppathy some people would be more than happy to say oh yeah my principles do that and thing most people do. » Do you bring lead teachers together in any way? Um is there any kind of gathering of lead teachers to talk about teacher meetings?

1:00:39 you ever done and that might be a way to just hear kind of » yeah it’s yeah I haven’t and I haven’t done so purposely because those are the the pretty sacred principles and the thing is and then super it’s almost like » any of those kind of forms for me to walk into almost has to be set I’m not I’m not opposed to it’s just sometimes like I used to go like hey via [clears throat] such a school from the sun come down here’s a topic or two we can talk about and you go to one school you have 30 people show up and you go to another school and no one shows up from the other school shows up it’s like it’s just weird it’s just some people don’t feel comfortable doing that and especially to talk about their supervisors

1:01:24 » when you’ve done surveys in the past have you administered them like yourself through your district or have you used outside vendors » um so I used Panorama at one point um and then what I did was I stole all their questions and so I didn’t have to pay for them and then I just myself didn’t expect that they go but uh he asked the good thing with them is they’ve double » I wonder sometimes if it’s an outside organization employees not always but sometimes feel a little more like it really is a little there if you don’t get the raw data

1:02:11 be a first step. You want you also could ask what they would » have at it » or they can go back to the the membership. One thing that I think we’re going to have to be careful of when we’re evaluating skull is that » one way that you’re measuring it is with your evaluation of your principles. And I don’t know if this if this would alter the way you write how you’re evaluated, but we obviously don’t want to be » and we don’t want to be evaluating principles through your evaluation, you know. » No, I think that just, you know, when when I have to Yeah. I mean, yeah, you

1:02:58 know, I see I see that. I mean, simply, um, yeah, I was just saying far,

1:03:06 but I can’t say how. » Well, that would I mean, we’ve had superintendent best who have not evaluated.

1:03:14 » That would like this is what what I to your point, Henry, I well, our goal would be to see measurable improvements in instructional leadership in the building of that. I think our job in measuring this goal is whether just did you execute these things. Whatever happens might take more than a year. » Did you do this? Are you creating this environment? And and these are the things you can tell us. » That’s why that’s where I struggle a lot of times when I’m writing the goals because I’m thinking I you know I have a vision in my head but then like you’re looking at it. How do you know that » just saying yeah we’ve done this we’ve done this. have done this. But Jen’s point, a lot of this kind of work isn’t like, oh, it’s at the end of the year if it changes, you know, » I mean, just telling us that you you’re

1:04:00 confirming trust you that you did the evaluation. So, like I said, we had super do. So, just informing us that you’ve done that and if you didn’t, then we’d probably end up finding out. Yeah, [laughter] you listed principal evaluation in in the section where you’re measuring the goal, not where we’re evaluating the goal. But I just wanted to point out that when we’re when we’re doing this, we we want to just be sure that we’re not » yeah overstepping any » and also it also will lend to um you know like professional development for your principles. I would assume in the evaluation process you talk you talk to principal so what their goals are you know do they want to be a superendent or assistant superintendent and that gives

1:04:47 you your bench [laughter] » you never or you know want to be a principal in a different building or whatever it is um it gives you you know that that makes them feel I’m sure that that they’re being invested in » Yeah it’s good and it gives them the ability to say hey you know I’m an elementary principal a second. » How do I do that? » Or vice versa. » And same with the assistant. Do you evaluate the assistant princip? » The principles do. » Yeah. I do all the principles I everybody here » but you ensure that the principles have evaluated these system reps like there’s a again I always report them all

1:05:33 and then when I generally do when they do when the evaluation done and it’s it’s hard here because I don’t know everybody but in my previous I think all the teachers so when saw someone like exemplary I’m like that doesn’t really match up with what I know about that teacher I can have this conversation you know so they definitely now so until I get some people better that’s kind of we’ve done the evaluation I defin have been a couple this year and then already evaluations in » just going same with at all levels Those

1:06:18 evaluations need to be » I think and I think what happens is » I think what happens is human nature kind of stuff gets in the way of a lot of evaluative stuff that I don’t » like this teacher so instead of saying I really see your thought they’ll teach that vice versa and that’s difficult um I don’t have that problem with

1:06:47 Do you do you know like do a lot of districts have 360deree feedback mechanisms in place » with peer feedback? » Oh yeah. Well yeah usually yeah you yeah it can be either but usually in this case I think you know it sounds like we’re talking a little bit about how do we evaluate kind of central administration yourself but whether it’s assistant principles principles and you know you and your staff. » Yeah. Um that would be a very quantifiable way to know if you’re making you know I know for a while it was in you know it’s kind of interesting I don’t know what the latest HR trends are right for I know many years ago it was oh you need to do 360 you’re not doing 360deree feedback » yeah how do you really know like you’re we’re evaluating you John and if we didn’t talk to principles how do we you

1:07:35 know we know what we know but there’s more you know you do more than that so I’m just curious this sounds like we’re talking about should we look at maybe having a 360 degree process. I think it depends on » evaluation process » like I think principles will generally you know between their you know their faculty meetings and PLC’s and you know grade level stuff they they can kind of see what’s what the interactions between all all the teachers are and they can see where um we need some extra supports and we have the mentor program so there’s a lot of that you know obviously we want you to evaluate because a lot of that supports those support systems are in place to kind of you know and then the principles should really look into that and say, “Hey, it’s, you know, you’re the mentor of Ken and how’s she doing?” Blah, blah, blah. They found those

1:08:20 conversations. They can’t just be like, “I would evaluate her this way.” So things didn’t go Oh,

1:11:45 Okay, there we go. » So, looking at the professional practice goal, um, » wait, can I just say one more comment? » Yeah. Yeah. um that and you know Melissa and you whatever and Henry you might agree with this but your comment about how you know particularly building building leaders are you get to know people and you feel uncomfortable like to me I’ve always said this like I come from the corporate world and yeah you might be friends with people but like you have a job and this is your job and you and it’s just that’s the that’s the difference between the private sector and the and the public sector but I was in management for many many years and had constant training on how to manage people, how to performance manage people. You know, I was in sales, so you know, you’re up or you’re out.

1:12:31 Um, that’s a little more extreme. Um, but I I’ve always felt in this world, it isn’t just schools, but it’s sort of, you know, municipal government in general that it just kind of and that would be something that, you know, maybe you want to think about like just some training because I just don’t know that that’s ever » how to give feedback like how to how to perform how to performance evaluate somebody and performance manage somebody, not just evaluate manage them. » It’s not and it’s not comfortable and you need support. » You need HR support. You need, you know, um, so There’s good trainings on like LinkedIn too that are provided for free if that’s if that even just looks like » because once you get comfortable with it, you’re comfortable. » Exactly. Yeah. It takes a while to get to that point.

1:13:18 » Perhaps also getting teachers helping and being managed to take that » and being managed. Yeah. Because the other thing too is that and I haven’t Oh, » just give me a moment. Reconnecting

1:14:31 Okay. Okay. » Okay.