Board of Health: September 9, 2020

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0:00 Okay, so call the meeting of September 9th to order. Welcome everybody. And we’ll get right into it. We have meeting minutes to approval. We’ll start with that. August 11th, I think we approved last time. Is that correct? That was the one that I hadn’t read, if you recall. And I read them quickly as we were voting on the others, and I mistakenly voted that they were correct because they were two items that were not correct. Do you want me to go over that? It was just, it was part of the reopening committee, and there were statements that were made that were not accurate. Do you have those handy, Michelle? Please tell us your changes. All right, let me get, let’s get them up for a minute, because I didn’t know you were doing them first, but they were in the, in the end, we’re, just a moment. All right. I just shortened the sentences of the last two paragraphs because they were incorrect. One was that we were giving everyone Chromebooks, and that is not happening. And the other, so I just left the, those three words out. The other was that the lawn signs were going to be given to all residents, and I think we’re only getting, what, 20, 50 lawn signs, so they can’t give it to all residents.

1:40 So both were incorrect. Nothing, nothing major that would change the, well, the fact that everybody was getting a Chromebook would change people, but that’s, that wouldn’t even be possible. I don’t think there’s enough in the state to even give them to everyone, but they were such short demands. So I’d like to make a motion to accept the minutes as corrected. I’ll second that. So since they’ve already been accepted, just a motion to amend the, and re, re-approve the minutes, I think is what I’m going to do. Well, I think, I think what we should do is make a motion to amend the minutes. Let’s do that. And then make a motion to accept the minutes as amended. Is that okay? I’ll make a motion to amend the minutes. I’ll second that. Andrew? Ms. Hazlett? In favor? Ms. Gottlieb? In favor. Dr. Belficher? In favor. And then the August 25th minutes? So now we have to vote to accept the minutes as amended. That was just to amend them. Okay, so, so make that motion. I move that we accept the minutes as amended. I’ll second. Alright, Ms. Hazlett? In favor. Ms. Gottlieb? In favor. Dr. Belficher? In favor. And now the August 25th minutes? Have you had a chance to look those over? Yes, I move to accept those.

3:12 Yes, and I did not send any changes. I second that motion. Andrew? Ms. Hazlett? In favor. Ms. Gottlieb? In favor. Dr. Belficher? In favor. Okay, so Andrew, your COVID-19 update, please. Alright, so I’m going to start with the case report. So we currently have had a total of 264 positive cases. We have less than five active cases. And at this point, we still have approximately 30 confirmed deaths. The traveling exemption has changed, so I just want to read through that. So all travelers arriving to Massachusetts, including Massachusetts residents returning home are instructed to self-quarantine for 14 days, except travelers from Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Maine, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Vermont, Washington, West Virginia, and Wyoming. So this was just updated the other day, so I just wanted to do. This is part of our case report, so I just wanted to include that also. So our average daily incidence rate per 100,000 currently is 1.12. The total number of tests that have been taken so far for Marblehead residents is 7,076. The total number of tests taken in the last 14 days is 1,039. So obviously, you know, that’s a great number to talk about.

4:45 So we have a great idea of what’s going on in Marblehead right now because of the so many tests taken the last 14 days. So I just kind of want to point that out. The percent positivity is 0.38%. Unfortunately, the change from last week in percent positivity is a little bit higher than last week. But it’s important to know, obviously, most likely the number of tests taken were because of a lot of travel and truck because of those travel vans and stuff like that. So I think it’s important to note. Another big piece, because of COVID-19, there has been an extreme amount of mental health issues. So if you go to mass.gov and on the right hand side, if you scroll down a little bit, you can click on mental health and well-being. And there’s a lot of information there that everybody should be aware of and take the time to go on and take a look at. So there’s a lot of different things from decreasing stress and how you help boost your immune system. This information on resources, reducing stress and healthy coping, managing isolation and loneliness during COVID-19, tips and activities for children, stigma and discrimination prevention, multilingual resources for COVID-19, online and telephone peer support. Resources and support for survivors of domestic violence and sexual assault, news and social media accounts to follow, and mental health crisis support.

6:20 I just think it’s really important for people to understand that these resources are available, as well as mass.211. So you can dial 211 and it will bring you to an operator and she can direct you in multiple different ways. You can ask for mental health support services and other things like that. You can also go into online, you can do 211 website. So it’s https.com. mass211.org for additional online support. These are just really good resources that I want to make sure everybody’s aware that they’re out there. Excuse me, could you give me that original massgov? So it’s mass.gov and then on the right hand side if you scroll down, it’s mental health and wellbeing. So that’s mental health and wellbeing, thank you. Yep. So you click on that and it brings you to all those other sections. You have a question Tom? Just a clarification. What was the positivity rate? I’m sorry. Nope. The positivity rate is… 1.338 So the average daily incident rate per 100,000 is 1.12 and the percent positivity is 0.38%. 0.38. Yeah, that’s how I thought it was said. Yeah, it’s a good one. I’m sorry. Thank you. The other stuff that I have, Todd, so that’s really all I have for COVID at this point.

7:54 The other stuff is more about reopening and some of the discussions around that. Okay, well let’s move right on to that then. So I have received a copy of the School of Marblehead School Committee’s face mask policy. We had made a recommendation in there to suggest that they not allow face masks to contain valves. And I want to continue to bring this up because the language that’s in the School Committee’s policy states, neck gators and face coverings with exhalation valves or vents are strongly discouraged as they do not prevent the spread of COVID-19. I just want to explain to people why we are adamant that exhalation valves shouldn’t be used. So an N95 respirator with an exhalation valve does provide the same level of protection to the wearer as does not have a valve. The presence of an exhalation valve reduces exhalation resistance, which makes it easier to breathe or exhale. Some users feel that a respirator with an exhalation valve keeps the face cooler and reduces moisture but build up on the inside of the face piece. Respirators with exhalation valves protect the wearer from SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, but may not prevent the virus spreading from the wearer to others.

9:26 That is, they may not be effective for source control until data are available to describe how effective respirators with exhalation valves are preventing the spread of SARS-CoV-2 from the wearer to others. So that’s strictly, if only a respirator with an exhalation valve is available and source control is needed, cover the exhalation valve with a surgical mask, a procedure mask, or a cloth face covering that does not interfere with the respirator fit. So that’s directly off the CDC website. And I want to just make sure that everybody understands that. And, you know, I was wondering if the board wanted to go back to the school committee and further expand and make that recommendation again regarding the valves. Absolutely. I would like to make that recommendation for a motion. Yes. It is, the way it is written, clearly we have not expressed ourselves strongly enough or they have not interpreted it strongly enough. If they are just putting it in there as a, you know, strongly recommended, if we have our druthers, we have to clearly, yeah, I think that they need to be go so, they need to go so far as to say that they are not allowed if I were to be so blunt. So I don’t know the best way that we should go about doing this.

11:04 Obviously, we have discussed that we want to make our guidance and then have them issue the policy. I still think that’s the best way to do that. If they are going to, I guess, Andrew, if you can just explain before we go on to make our motion or do this, if you can explain or Helene, since you’re on the reopening committee at the larger extent, how the communication went from us to them so we can know how we can avoid the kind of bumps to get to where we need to be. Well, number one, we gave a recommendation so they could do as they wished, but they have been looking for our guidance and they’ve been very good about that. Number two, this was discussed at a school committee meeting, not at the reopening committee meeting, which I did not attend. And so I did listen to some of it, but I wasn’t there for all of it. So I apologize that I don’t know how that came down. But those are the two things that I know. So I would recommend that you make a motion to make a recommendation for the school committee that you would prohibit the use of exhalation valves on a face covering. I mean, we’ve said this before, but wearing one with a valve is pretty much equal to not wearing one at all. Well, obviously, like I said, it’s protecting yourself, but it’s not preventing the spread. Right. That’s what I mean. You protect yourself. But if you were to be carrying the virus and you wear a mask with a vent or you wear no mask, it has the same effect on other people.

12:39 Instead of suggesting, recommending that they prohibit, because that’s really giving them a strong, almost, order. Could we ask them that we recommend that they follow CDC guidelines as far as? So the hard thing with the CDC is the CDC is not saying that exhalation valves are not allowed. They try to use the similar language or discouraged. Obviously, our biggest concern is that we’re putting a lot of people into an indoor setting and we’re trying to prevent the spread of the disease. And so we want to make sure that, yes, we want all people to wear facial coverings, but we want to make sure that we’re preventing the spread of the disease. And we need to prevent the use of these exhalation valves because it’s not preventing the spread. And the other thing is that you could you do have the option in order to make it safe by wearing another facial covering over it. But the problem is, like, what happens if somebody’s wearing that at school and then they have another one over it and then they go to another class and then they take that one off. Like, it’s just too complicated, I think, for us to or for the schools to be navigating that double mask situation, which is why I would err in favor of putting in that language about prohibiting it. But we only can recommend. Yeah. And we went through this last week. We’re not comfortable on the gator situation. There’s not enough science there. There is enough science here.

14:14 I think we push a little bit on this one. And I think we also make the motion. And then I think we communicate through an email directly to Dr. Bucky and to nurse Deanna and say, here’s what we’ve done. Here’s what came out of our meeting tonight. School, you know, obviously it’s not starting in person, but it, you know, school officially starts next week. And here’s where we are. And these are our this is our motion. I would be comfortable with language such as the Board of Health strongly recommends that the school committee prohibit the use of masks with ventilators. That would be that would I would agree with that. I just want to say that we prohibit it. That’s the only thing. That’s that wouldn’t be a recommendation anymore. That would be a regulation from us. And that’s not what we’re doing. We have somebody who wants to ask a question. Todd. Oh, look at that. Yes, go ahead. Hi, can you hear me? Yes. Hi, I apologize. I have my three kids in the background. So if anyone screams, then it’s just everyone getting ready for bedtime. I just had a question about the focus on the mask with the valves. If the CDC doesn’t feel that it warrants stronger use of the language to mandate it specific type of mask. Why the Board of Health feels that we should emphasize to the school committee about the use of masks with valves?

15:50 Because I’m just asking because there are certainly going to be many other mitigation factors when the children return to school. And of course, they aren’t returning immediately. They are returning towards the end of September gradual entry. There’s going to be other mitigation factors like smaller class sizes. The kids are only going to be with their cohort and that teacher. They’re going to be washing their hands frequently. So I’m just there’s other strategies besides the mask wearing that’s going to be, you know, that’s going to encourage a reduction of the transmission of the virus, not solely the mask. There’s going to be other things going on in the school. Agreed. There are many factors, but this is one big one in our opinion. And we’ve discussed this at several meetings and everything that we’ve come across has said that this is not an effective mask. So I think that’s why we’re all comfortable recommending that that. And they’re also going to ask, I mean, they’re going to be asking the kids before they enter the building. They’re going to be asking the parents, do they have symptoms? So, I mean, I’m not sure I haven’t been on every meeting. This is my first one that I’ve attended. I’ve only seen the recording of the last one. But has there been discussion about the airborne factor of the virus? Because as far as I know, the CDC said that the main root of transmission is respiratory droplets. Correct?

17:28 Just one other quote here from the CDC. I know Andrew read one thing, but on their FAQ it says, if you only have a respirator, if you only have a respirator mask with an exhalation valve available, cover the exhalation valve with a face mask, surgical or procedure mask, any mask that does not interfere with the respirator, with the valve fit. So they do not suggest that a mask with a valve is an appropriate protection for other people unless you have another mask over it. So, yeah. And also many children, most children who have tested positive don’t show symptoms. Right. So it’s just one more safeguard that we want to put in place. Colleen, did you have something else to say? So you were raising your hand? Yes, this is actually Kathy. I’m on Colleen’s Chromebook. So I’m not going to get into details, but I, out of respect for you, Mr. Petty, you can just close whatever you want to after I just say what I have to say. I am a nurse with 35 years of pediatric experience. I work in a large teaching hospital. And I have a lot of concerns about the policy regarding masks at the high school.

19:04 Dr. Bell-Stecker, I don’t know if you recognize me, but I’m in Abbott Hall every fourth of July. Hopefully you can verify that I’m the same person. But out of respect to Mr. Petty, I would prefer if your group went offline and discussed my concerns because I don’t want to incite anything. And I want to be respectful. This is also the first public health meeting I’ve been on because I have grave concerns about the mask policy. So that’s all I have to say. And Mr. Petty knows how to reach me. So if anyone has any questions, I am happy to try to give the guidance I have based on my extensive experience. I’ve been taking care of patients with COVID virus since February. Thank you for letting me speak. Thank you. So was there a reason that you don’t want to share the information so that we could take it under advisement? She feels that the mask policy is lacking in this area where the exhalation valve should be prohibited and not strongly discouraged because it can still allow for droplets to be spread. So that’s the problem with it, is that we’re trying to prevent droplets spreading and the valve allows them to still come out and can be spread. So if we adopt the resolution, the recommendation that Dr. Belspecker has given us, that will take care of that.

20:38 So is it okay with you, Mr. Petty, if I respond? Oh yeah. Please speak freely. The language needs to be concrete because there will always be an outlier who will challenge the policies. So if mature students see that the policy says strongly discouraged, they may choose to wear a vented or valve mask to school. When that happens, they might as well have no mask on whatsoever and it provides absolutely no protection from any surrounding students, educators, ancillary staff. The CDC language, though it’s weak when it comes to saying forbidden, directly says that a valve mask does not prohibit transmission of the virus. And I feel so strongly, and obviously you all know I’ve never been on this type of a meeting, I’ve never attended, Marblehead needs to step up and lead the way. We need the language that says the mask valves are prohibited. So let me just weigh in here if you wouldn’t mind. So the way I am understanding our procedure here is not that we are disagreeing with you, because I think we do agree. I think what we are trying to figure out is process-wise whether we, because of kind of procedural jurisdiction here,

22:11 that what we want is the school system to issue the policy that you are suggesting. Because we agree that it should not, what we are not happy with is what we just heard that the school system has issued with a strongly encouraged not to wear a mask with a valve. We are not comfortable with that. We want the masks with valves to be prohibited. What we are suggesting is that we want to convey that strong suggestion. That strong suggestion is coming from us to the schools so that they issue the language around prohibition, that it’s not coming from us. So I understand where your discomfort is because you’re uncomfortable that that’s not going to come from the schools. And that’s where we have to have some trust in our colleagues at the school and see if we can have this attempt from us to make an advisory, a public health advisory to our colleagues in the school system and see what they do with it. We do have some leverage, I believe, as the Board of Health to issue our own prohibition, but our preference is for the school system to issue their own policy.

23:42 There are no medical experts on your school board, from what I can tell. Well, I’d like to just interject. The school committee, and I have sat on the school committee, is an autonomous group and they can make decisions. They have very intelligently, nicely come to us throughout this process during the COVID to ask for our recommendation on so many levels. And they’ve had several of us sitting on the committees. So I think that they will listen to us as far as recommending the prohibition. We cannot make directives. You absolutely should be making directives. You are the Board of Health. You should be representing the medical experts in this town. There is no one on the school committee, from my understanding, that has medical expertise. I do. And I am telling you that if this doesn’t go through, I will unfortunately be pulling my 14-year-old on an IEP out of a psychosocial emergency because I fear for her physical health. I have 30 years of experience. You don’t have anybody in the schools until October, right now. If you listen to October, for what it’s worth, you probably will barely be able to open. I think they will listen to us because they have listened every step of the way. Well, that’s misunderstanding then because what I was told today by the lead school nurse was that you all told them they couldn’t be black and white about what kind of mass could or could not be worn.

25:17 That’s not true. That’s what Mr. Petty told me. So I checked that before I got all fired up about this. She gave me that information and I called him today to verify. I understand your concerns, but the real issue is just as Michelle said, it’s jurisdiction. We don’t have – all we can be for the school department is advisory. They’ve been good about listening to us, but we don’t have the power to say we – But how can that be if there are no medical experts on that school committee? There are other towns that have written 150-page portfolios, and I’m going to send this information to Mr. Petty. I’m happy to share. The town of Winchester has 20 medical experts advising the schools. Massachusetts General Office – They’re advising them, but they do not have – I mean, this is across the country. It’s a very black line for them. The school department does – I beg to differ with you because I sit on the reopening committee. They do have medical advice, people sitting on their committees. On the department school committee? Let’s allow this to – Because they sit on the reopening committee, which works with the superintendent, which – who makes the policy. What’s the right copy? I am appalled that they would say that valve masks are strongly discouraged but not prohibited. That’s why we’re making this motion tonight. And if they don’t listen to us, we’ll pursue it again. We’re not going to go about that.

26:49 We’re in agreement with you. We are not comfortable with this either. So that’s why we’re meeting about this. We agree with you. We are not comfortable. And we will continue to pursue this until we, as the Board of Health, are comfortable. I’m like seven months of COVID-19 because I’ve been on the front lines since February. And it looks like Marblehead is so much different than what it looks like in Boston where everybody gets transferred to who is in really dire straits. So I’m sorry for my drama. As Mr. Petty and I talked about today, you know, you’ve got these 30-year and 102-year-old grandmas that are celebrating their recovery with a Miller Lite. It’s really – it’s just so scary. And I’m sorry for my passion. Don’t apologize. We hear you, okay? Thank you. I’m going to shut up. Thank you for hearing me out. I just – I want to help. Thank you. And have some faith. We’ve got a few more weeks. We’re going to do this tonight. It doesn’t work. We’ll go the next step. To our Tom, who is a doctor, who is a physician – Excuse me, Tom. One second. Andrew, just before you speak, Andrew is going to say something. No, I just want to thank Kathy for all our hard work. And, you know, please, you know, just unfortunately, we’d like to go in this direction. But, you know, like Michelle and everybody said, we’re not going to let this drop. So we will pursue this.

28:24 Thank you very much. And you’ve been so awesome taking my calls and communicating with me. And I really appreciate it. Thank you. Tom? Yeah, just a point of clarification. Whose decision is it? Is it the school committee or is it the superintendent? The school committee set the policy. Okay. So it’s the school committee. So he has to follow what the school committee suggests. And he makes the recommendations through all the various committees that he has worked with in the reopening committee. I just wanted to be clear about who is your – who the message goes to and who makes the decision. Okay. Thank you. And then – thanks, Tom. Just – Karen made a comment saying that children are asymptomatic, not sneezer or coughing. They won’t have respiratory droplets. You have to rebut that since you can pass this on from just talking and breathing on people. Correct. And then, Sondra Callahan, you have a comment? Yeah. So I myself am a pediatric nurse and only deal with respiratory patients. I’ve been a nurse for 25 years. I sat on the health and safety committee reopening. And I too, too, also don’t agree with the vow. So my concern that I have – and I’ve sat on a couple of you guys’ listening sessions. And I know it was brought up, I think, by Pat Noonan that if this is – I understand that Dr. Bucky asked for your recommendation, and you guys offered one.

29:55 However, Dr. Bucky, when it was brought up about alternative care plans for parents that are essential workers or are working remotely and don’t have childcare, Dr. Bucky said he was going to reach out to the local YMCA and the JCC to support parents in a remote program. Which, I’m assuming that conversation happens because there is information out there. If you guys are so strongly – if you have such strong feelings for this, for the school department, I think we’re sending significantly mixed messages to parents that if the kids are in school and can’t wear a valved mask, that it might be appropriate for them to be wearing it at the YMCA or the JCC. So we’re going to – so we’re trying to reduce spread, but we’re not reducing spread of these same kids that are in other alternative programs that are supporting them remotely, but we’re enforcing it when they’re physically in-person in Marblehead Public Schools. Yeah, it’s a good point. I was going to raise – now that these programs are officially soliciting after-school care for kids because we’re moving towards a hybrid, I was going to raise – It’s a huge problem. – that we should be making recommendations and guidance to the after-school programs with the same type of guidance that we’re offering to places that are – that we have jurisdiction over in our town.

31:28 I mean, I think that makes sense. I know we can’t necessarily enforce kind of voluntary types of masks for every individual, personal mask-wearing everywhere in town, but for programs where it’s an after-school program that’s kind of being offered as an alternative for – as a care program for kids and for the kids. And they may even be offering transportation. I haven’t read the details. This seems to me a prudent course of action. You know that the Y is how it’s in Salem. The Y is, but not the J. So – and – but they will – you know, we can talk about that. It is going to be a program that it’s in – yes, it’s a Salem jurisdiction in terms of its – yeah, its location. But it’s going to be likely busing kids, I’m assuming. We can look at the details from our school system to their program. So, you know, we should be discussing this, I think. Let’s discuss it then. I mean – Yeah, should we discuss it now? I mean, we can issue the same – the very same guidance we’re offering to the public schools we can be offering to the after-school programs. I don’t see why we wouldn’t offer that very same guidance. We want the same protections for those same kids.

33:08 So you get to offer the recommendation to all schools and after-school programs? Even private after-school programs. Private schools. Yeah. I mean, it’s a strongly recommended prohibiting the use of respirators with exhalation valves for all schools and after-school programs. Public and private. Yeah.

33:36 Patrick asks, why just schools? I mean, yeah. Yeah. I mean, not to like labor, but like, you know, there are many settings where you have to wear a mask. I think you have to cross-beach if you wear a mask. Right. And just again, like, the kind of role responsibility jurisdiction. We had a great discussion last time on this. I just think that if we’re – I think it should be across the board. You’re absolutely right. It should just be universal and it should be federal. It’s just crazy. Everybody talks about wanting to get back to normal. The only way we’re going to get back to normal is to reduce the transmission and one of the mitigating factors is to wear a mask. And it’s pretty easy. I understand that we’ll be younger kids and children with challenges that can’t wear the mask. And I embrace that. But for the majority of us, wearing a mask is so easy. And it just makes me bonkers when I’m driving to work every day and see so many people that just can’t even put a cloth mask on. I’m just – Well, with regard to the – digital tongue – Tom was raising his hand before. I have a question. Do we know what either – basically our Jason Toms are doing, Salem and Swamp Scott. Are doing either for schools or are they allowing that? I’m just wondering how much of an issue – and what their boards of health are saying about this.

35:10 Well, let’s lead the way in Marblehead. I understand. No, no, no, no, no. It’s more the logistics of getting it done. Because if they are also behind it, it makes it much easier. And I agree with you. It’s not that I’m not agreeing. I’m just trying to figure out the strategy, the logistics of doing this and where they’re at, basically. I looked at Swamp Scott’s plan and they didn’t address the absolute no valve mask. Actually, their plan to my long-standing professional – I looked a little bit weak. And Salem, I’m not sure they addressed too much of anything because I don’t think they’re starting when we are. But I say let’s stop being PC and lead the way. Let’s lead the way. People are dying. And I know our members are low in Marblehead, but they will not stay low if we send one asymptomatic child into a classroom with a valve mask, period. Michelle, can I just say something before – Yeah, and mine is to this kind of school versus broader issue. Well, that’s mine too. I feel like we should make our vote and our motion about the school specifically right now. We can talk about the broader issues either now or later on. But I’d like to just kind of close the door on our school discussion because that is a separate issue, even though it’s all the same issue. So I would like to have one of you make that motion if you’re ready.

36:42 I will make the motion to – No, wait. But can I just make a comment about that, Helene, before you jump in? Yeah, I just want to address to Patrick and others who are asking about why not make this issue broader. I do think we can discuss making a statement about that broader. But I do – I think the reason that we want to make – I think the language is going to be slightly different in how we phrase it. And I think that’s going to be in our recommendation when the guidance is specifically for schools. I don’t know exactly how it’s going to look right now, but I think it is going to be a slightly different – because we are making an advisory specifically to the schools right now. And then we can come back even tonight and talk about our general advisory to the public about avoiding these. But I do want to make sure, because we want this language to get out to the schools so that it goes into their policy. I’m texting with our esteemed chair. Aaron is with the esteemed chair of the school. I believe that what you guys are looking at is out of date. There’s a mass policy that says it’s got to be the CDC. I don’t know. I think that might be something of a moot point. You should go ahead and make the recommendation because I think it should. That means they changed their policy already and we’re discussing a moot point. I think so. That’s not true. Well, even if it’s a moot point, let us make it as it’s going forward.

38:16 And I would like to make the motion as the reopening committee representative. And I would like to say that we would recommend that the school committee prohibit the use of ALV mass. Strongly recommend. Strongly recommend. Okay, I’ll take the strongly recommend. I would like to do that motion for discussion. I’d like to do that motion. Then we can do another one about all schools public and private. But I would like to start with the school committee one that we had originally. Yes. I think I second. Andrew has got a second. Helene? Yes. In favor. Excuse me. Before we go on to discuss the broader picture, I would like to recommend that we do that at the next meeting, even if it’s next week, because, you know, time is running short. I think we need to notify those different venues. We don’t know what they’re doing right now. I know I visited one of those facilities over the summer. I was very, very impressed with what they were doing. And I think we need them to either be here and give them an opportunity. You put on notice. I mean, you’re doing the same thing. You can strongly recommend to all the private schools and the afterschool programs. It’s up to them to adopt it. You know, it’s not an order. So you’re making the recommendation.

39:47 You know, should they be here? You know, do they have to be here? They don’t have to be here. Change how you feel. I think it would be nice to say we’re notified that we’re discussing. We have public meetings. We’ve been discussing this all along. I’m comfortable doing this tonight. I would like to post a bigger picture, a whole town discussion for our next meeting, just because I think that we were prepared to discuss the schools tonight. We are not prepared to do a townwide proclamation. I think we do need to do a little bit more. I mean, we just. We just. I think that. A matter of seven days, just because of what I stated. And I certainly feel that all youngsters should be protected all day long. I think I would like, I would vote present on this. Can I just say that with regard to like a townwide, you know, kind of guidance on this, it’s not like we’re going, you know, far into left field here. This is like generally CDC guidance. This is out there in the public. You know, vernacular. This is not like we’re issuing some like crazy, crazy thing. Like most people who are aware of this are, you know, Yeah, there’s a lot crazier things. We should be doing a supportive health and telling people. No, I agree. I was just saying that since we don’t typically do things that we bring up at

41:19 that meeting and then finalize at the meeting, we usually, that’s not our typical process. Okay. So, but in terms of expanding to other school programs, Helene is saying we should wait. I’m saying, and you’re saying you’re comfortable issuing something tonight. I am comfortable issuing something tonight because all it is, is recommending to them that they, we, that we strongly suggest that they prohibit it. Then we send this off to them. That way it gives them a little time. And they can talk to us. Do you look it to it and then they can come back to us in a week and come to our meeting and say, we’re confused. What’s going on? And it gives them some time to get ready and then they can come to the meeting and talk to us about it. If they think it’s a bad idea. And then we’ll tell them what’s a good idea and they should do it. Well, I don’t think everybody’s going to think it’s a bad idea. And I certainly wouldn’t vote against it. I just feel that it’s important that they know that we’re discussing it strongly recommending something that they know nothing about right now. But, you know, this shouldn’t be that shocking to them. I’m still comfortable voting tonight. I’m comfortable voting tonight. And I think that they will see it. And I don’t think that they’ll be shocked. I don’t think they’ll be concerned. And if they have any big concerns, most likely they’ll be, they’ll think, great, this is an easy thing for us to do. We’ll put it into our policy and we’ll send it right out the door to our parents. If they have any concerns, I think they’ll say, Hey,

42:51 we’ll come to the board of health meeting. We’ll zoom on in and we’ll talk about it. I don’t think it’s controversial. Did you have a motion to make Michelle? Yeah, I’d like to make a motion that we strongly recommend that all public and private schools and after school programs, prohibit the use of valves in masks. I think that’s the same language we used in the past. Um, the same language we used in our previous motion. Sorry, my, I just want to make sure that it’s consistent. That’s why I didn’t finish my sentence. So the extension is all schools and after school programs, public and private, that’s correct. Are you comfortable? Seconding that claim. I will second it for discussion. That doesn’t mean that I’m good.

43:46 Do you have further discussion? Yes, I’m going to, I’m going to vote present because out of courtesy of those schools that are not aware of this session. And I’d like that to be written in the minutes. Not that I’m against it. Yeah, that’s fine. So let me Scottly. In favor. Present. In favor. Okay. So I just look at, I just noticed the big. The chat. Okay. Just more discussions that can be had elsewhere. So we’ll just move on from the chat. Do you want to just address the comment on Sweden? So the information on Sweden is not, hasn’t been finalized and the death rate has actually skyrocketed. And they do not believe that their practice of trying to create cute herd immunity worked. And nobody should be trying that. That is absolutely correct. I may have misread her message, but every other country in Europe, Italy, Spain, England, they’re all having surges again and we’re right behind them. It’s going to follow a universal pattern. So I may have misread her message. But yes, Sweden was an abomination. They didn’t take any precautions and they were devastated.

45:20 So, Elena, Michelle, do you, do you want to discuss further mass regulations or recommendations rather tonight or do you want to push that back for a week? What is your, what is your thought? We can have one session. I think it would be helpful to discuss it to know, to allow others to come forward next week. And I think it should be taken up right in seven days. So I absolutely think so people would know where we’re coming from. I’m not, I’m not quite clear. Are you saying you want to discuss this more right now? And as I felt about the other motion and not, and not vote on it, but have a discussion for a father for a future vote, which is going to be next week. So we, and we don’t have the power to outright say these are banned in town. Correct. You can create an order, but there’s a process for creating that order. You have to have a public hearing that has to be advertised and all that stuff. And obviously with that comes enforcement. Right. And, and then I would be very much in favor. See, I’m so funny that I want to say that. Can I just add that the problem in the schools is that you’re in an enclosed space with a large amount of students and educators that are in the front of the classroom, taking on what every student reads out. When kids are outside walking around town, et cetera, you know, the virus is more forgiving when it’s outside. But in a, in a school, in a classroom, you’re in an enclosed environment.

46:54 I don’t know what the ventilation system is. My daughter’s going to be in a classroom. My daughter’s going to be a ninth grader. Is it MERS 13? I don’t know. You’re in an enclosed spaces. People are, you know, walk in the hallways. There’s going to be mass grade grade outside the land. December, January. It’s such a much different environment in school system than walking around downtown Marblehead. Much different environment. Your point is well taken. So Michelle Helene, do you, I’m just trying to figure out where you want to go with this right now. Well, where let’s, let’s begin where, where are the places that we would like to make this a prohibit. What other places would we like to consider prohibiting? Shouldn’t you be sticking with the classrooms for now, given that this is what your agenda is concerning, given that our kids are going back to school in three weeks? Well, we’ve just done that. Yeah. I mean, I think what we were hearing from members of the community who joined us was, well, why, you know, why just the schools, you know, why, like why are we stopping with the schools just like we heard? Why are we stopping with the schools? Why are we stopping with the schools? Why are we stopping with the schools? Just like we heard. Why? Large cohorts of children.

48:27 I understand that, but you know, so we’re opening it up. I mean, do we want to do, do folks who joined us who had feelings about this, want to, want to share your thoughts on this or while you’re here, and then we can take it up as a board to discuss. I mean, are we talking about restaurants? We’re talking about if and when the movie theater opens up. Yeah. That’s, we have to figure out. Where these places are. So essentially, if you want to expand it, it would be a townwide policy or a townwide order to say that, you know, you would prohibit the use of respirators with exhalation valves. And I think we would have to make that recommendation to the board of selectmen. No, no, you can make an order, a public health order, just like we have with the mass orders, everything else. And then we have to advertise it that we’re having a hearing like we have in the past. So, you know, I would, you would need two weeks to duly post it, but you can move forward with it. I think you should strongly consider that we, we have to tamp this virus down because it’s going to get worse now. That’s Kathy, right? Yeah, it’s Kathy. But I appreciate if you raise your hand before. Kathy, I think, I was going to say the same thing that the chair is saying. Could you allow the committee to discuss this? And then we can ask you for your expert opinion. She’s on me. No, I’m sorry. I couldn’t hear you. Would you mind repeating?

50:02 No, just just if you could just raise your hand before, before speaking, you would. I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I apologize. And I think that the committee would like to have some discussion. We would love to have your input because you would like to have some discussion. We would love to have your input because you have tremendous experience. But let us decide where we want to, what direction we want to go. So I just want to get more of a sense from, from you to, I would like to have a public hearing. I think it’s important enough. Yeah. I mean, I guess I’m just wondering, you know, if we’re having a public hearing on this, like are there other issues that we want to be having a public? I think you stick with one issue at a time. And if other issues have come up, we can deal with that as it comes. Okay. You know, the winter is coming, the fall, you know, the fall and then the winter. And we’re, we’ve been told every which way that there’s going to be a surge. Well, I’m comfortable. I mean, if we, you know, I guess I had one question for Andrew. I’m just wondering, you know, how much of a, how much of a problem are we seeing with people where I’m just, this is just kind of a looking for some anecdotal answers on this. You’re out and about as a, you know, as our public health director, what are you seeing in the community on this? I have to say, I actually,

51:35 you know, I don’t, I don’t see many of these. I do see them occasionally. But, you know, we do not see many of them. And I don’t know that the pandemic has gotten out a little bit, but it needs to be reminded to the community again. Okay, well, I’m comfortable. I mean, you know, like whatever we can do, I feel like to use whatever best science is out there and our role to be able to, to make some, you know, headway in doing what we can. Like we had too many months before we knew or, or had the appropriate guidance on masks. And now we know that masks are making a difference. If we can have the appropriate masks to avoid any, you know, people wearing the wrong kind of masks that are spreading the virus versus protecting people, then, then let’s get like, get them out of town. Well, also, don’t you want to discuss whether people don’t wear masks at all? I mean, will the order be proud of that? I mean, we need to think about that. I’m asking a rhetorical question. No, but I mean, one thing we’ve had to face since the very beginning of this is enforcement. So that’s a real issue. You can, you can make an order, but if you can’t have the manpower to enforce it, I mean, Andrew is not going to be patrolling the streets and the police have enough to do. I mean, not that they don’t see it like a,

53:09 my point is that we’ve been discussing this all along as enforcement is an issue. But I think citizens in the board would feel more empowered if this was made an order. I know myself, I feel more empowered. I’ve only been able to, there’s no downside because it’s not, it’s not that, it’s a, it’s a small issue. I mean, it’s not, don’t get me wrong, it’s not a small issue, but it’s not saying that everybody has to, I forget my random example, but I don’t, I don’t see that there’s a downside to this. It’s more about education. Can I make a motion to put this on the agenda as a public meeting for the, today is the 9th for the 22nd of September? Yeah. And that’s it, today is the 9th, I apologize, but we were using it on Tuesday. So, I will draft an emergency order for prohibiting the use of respirators with exhalation valves. Does that mean because it’s not a true 14 days because I’m asking for Tuesday? No, we can do it under an emergency order and it doesn’t necessarily have to be the 14 days. We just want to make sure everybody has, you know, good knowledge of this. I mean, we could do an emergency order next, on the 15th. I changed my motion.

54:40 I move that we have a public meeting on the 15th to discuss an emergency situation with masks. Yeah, so it’s an emergency order with respirators with exhalation valves, or do you want to talk about, because I have to have it drafted, I won’t be able to draft it at the meeting. I’d like to talk about masks with valves and masks in general. Well, why don’t we just put that on our agenda for next time and we’ll be prepared to do that. He said we could have the emergency meeting on the 15th, if we wish. Can I jump in? Yes, go ahead. Because you told me to raise my hand. I just wanted to say that thank you, all of you, for listening to me and my opinion. But as I said, I’ve been on the front lines for seven months in Boston and Marblehead is a little insulated. The only thought I want to convey is I am so happy to step up and help in any way that I possibly can. So please reach out to me because I really do believe I have the lived experience. And I’m not meaning to stir the pot at all. I just really care about all of us in town. I’ve seen the devastating damage that this virus can do. Nothing else I can say. Thank you for entertaining me tonight. I really appreciate it.

56:13 Thank you for your thoughts tonight. Thank you for what you’re doing. Can I make a recommendation for next? I can just clarify with Andrew. So we can make a motion tonight to have a public hearing next Tuesday in just six days? Yeah, because it’s emergency order. So will Elaine go on? I would like to make that motion. Emergency order for next Tuesday, the 15th of September, we will discuss masks. I’ll second that. And it’s totally separate from what we’ve already done with the schools. That’s got to go to the school committee as a separate issue, even though it’s a same issue. And also you’ve discussed the private schools also. And that passed, even though there was one person that voted present. Even though it’s just emergency order passes, then everything becomes moot and it will supersede the school order. Right. We have a full vote. Miss Godley. Miss Hazlett. In favor. Dr. Velficher. How are we going to get this out if it won’t make the reporter for. So it’s always posted. It’s a duly posted meeting. So it’s a town clerk. It won’t be it won’t make the.

57:44 So we’ll post it tomorrow. Based on the information I have today, I’ll post it tomorrow. And so we can make sure it’s out there for a longer period of time. Great. I’ll put it on social media and maybe. Maybe all marblehead can put it out there, too. That’ll be great. Patrick, did you have anything you wanted to say about this? Is somebody who had raised this kind of broader issue? Yeah, no, I was I say I think I applaud the board’s action in this. I think that if you guys feel strongly about something that you should be thinking broadly. Frankly, there are far more people in Crosby’s in a given point in time than there are in a hybrid setting in a school classroom. I think you’re probably talking eight to ten students and a teacher. So, you know, when you think about a restaurant, I mean, it was really indoors. I think that you’ve got you’ve got more people. So the order should be we should be thinking about this on a risk based level, not just schools, schools, schools. There’s some interference. Does somebody have some other background noise? Thank you. Of course, restaurants, you have to take your mask off to eat. So that’s. Sure. I have to take my mask off to sit in the dental chair, too. All right. I think it’s time to move on. Let’s go to the clinic.

59:15 So we have a senior drive through flu clinic that is scheduled for September 30th. It was preregistration at this point. The registration is full. So we have no additional high dose flu shots. So we’re asking people to reach out to their primary care physician and also contact CVS to get it elsewhere. We won’t be picturing anything else at this point in time, but we will be having that flu clinic on September 30th. We will be running this as an emergency dispensing site drill. So you’ll see a little bit more action than a normal. It’s going to be a drive through flu clinic. So you’ll see some additional steps that we have to take to make sure we get credits through the federal government and stuff like that. And everybody will be gowned and masked. Yeah, everybody will be, you know, that’s on, you know, they’ll be police officers there assisting the. Emergency management team will be there. But yeah, this will be a normal drive through clinic. Really, this is the first drive through clinic that we’ve ever held in Marvel head. We’ve done them in other areas like Peabody, but this is the first one in Marvel head. And will you be getting more vaccine later in the season? I will not be getting any more additional high dose vaccine. No, that’s why the seniors need the high dose. That’s why it’s that’s correct. There is a question, Andrew. Will the school be having flu clinics? Yes, so we have recommended that the schools work with CVS. I believe the school nurse leader has been discussing clinics involving CVS.

1:00:50 We will have some. So, yeah, we’re trying to work all that stuff out. Obviously, we are aware of the requirements that all students will have to be vaccinated for the flu by December 31st. That’s just a 20 a turn. From my understanding, because, you know, people are worried that. Blue and COVID could overlap and not the one of the main ways to tell the difference is that lack of taste and smell and also the trouble breathing or both. COVID and not flu. But aside from that, they’re pretty, pretty similar. So, Patrick, the only we the reopening committee has not met since our last meeting. So that’s why we didn’t have any specific other issues to answer your question. Point of clarification was the only public health reopening committee item the mask issue. Yes, it was. The reopening reopening committee meeting will be I think meeting now on an ad hoc basis. They’re going to be meeting. They didn’t meet the last two weeks. The first two weeks ago was the first day of school for the teachers. Last week was on Monday was naturally Labor Day. And if we went and if we meet again, it’ll be later in the day because school be in session. That’s great. Thank you. And I guess I just echo the comments I made at the last meeting. Just if there’s any discussion or consideration of public health metrics beyond that proposed by.

1:02:23 Destiny and the mass DPH. I trust that that will come up in a public forum prior to being adopted or recommended by the Board of Health. Certainly it’s a moving everything’s a moving target. One school begins to know that. Sure. May I ask a question? We have to all business or you still have. Yeah. I think you’ve lost it with the flu clinic in here. Yeah, I’m also with the food clinic. Oh, well, Michelle wanted to have some old business too, because I’m interested in the lawn signs that we talked about. Yeah. Are they ready to be ordered or they have been ordered. So we finalize what you and I discussed with the colors and everything. So I changed the lettering to black on that one. And I’ve ordered some of those and some of the other mask of Marvel head signs to be distributed around town. Oh, good. Oh, the smaller ones. Not the smaller ones. Some of the ones that taught it like to some of the past history people from Marvel head. Like the revolution. I like them. Yeah, exactly. Why didn’t we? Oh, because I know why we used two different ones. Okay. We use the second one to be more inclusive. I don’t I didn’t want to just say this. We have two different kinds. We have two different kinds. But now we’re inclusive. Old guard and we now inclusive of all our neighbors in town. Yep. Okay. Well, thank you very much. Michelle, you wanted to I remember you writing that you wanted to ask about how the hazardous waste went.

1:03:54 Did you want to know that? You needed. Sorry. Yeah. I had emailed you about it, but it would had just happened. So I don’t know if you have any updates yet. So I think it was a fabulous event. We got a lot of participation. We had a couple of people that didn’t get picked up yesterday because the drivers were had run out of time, actually. All those people were taken care of today. But so I have I did get an email today from an individual in town about the positive feedback. So, hi, Andrew, just passing on some positive feedback. I took part in the pickup yesterday as a taxpayer and was so pleased with it. Paid online and for the max quantity and they took everything and left my empty recycle totes. I’ve never been able to participate in this. And this option was great for me. So easy. Thank you. So that’s kind of some of the comments that we’ve received. Much easier. You don’t have to be home. You can be at work. So this is a model that I’m hoping to continue on into the future. Great. Great. We have a date for the next one. I don’t. I’ll be speaking with Brian later on this week and I’m I would have to talk to him about numbers. But hopefully we can do this again either sometime in November to tell you the truth is what I’m shooting for. Great. So it’s speaking in more than twice a year. Yeah. Ideally, if we can if the quantity continues, I’d like to have it possibly three or four times a year. Great. It’s a great service.

1:05:27 And then also Labor Day is over. Beach testing is over. So today was the last day of beach sampling. We always run a little bit later than the state requirements. You know, our beaches tend to be used a little bit more. But today was the last day of sampling. So we’ll get results back tomorrow. Overall, it’s been a very successful beach sampling program. We didn’t have, you know, I’ll wait till tomorrow to say anything. But no, it’s been very successful. Or you don’t want us to jinx you to say that. You don’t even have a net so far. We have not had one day of closure. Great. But no, the water has been really nice. You know, I enjoy it often. And no jellyfish. I did not get stung by a jellyfish this summer. Good. Those red line main ones are gone. We were someplace else in it. We, like Grandchildren, were stung brutally. That tells you to stay in Marblehead. Yeah. Any other older new business? Yeah, well, new business. Can we set a date? I guess we do. We have it for the 15th because we made it. 730. OK. Are we continuing with every Tuesday?

1:07:00 So far, it looks like we’ve got a lot on our plate. I think that we’ll do next Tuesday and we’ll play it by ear. We’ll talk again next week and see if we want to do one or two weeks on that day. Because school is going to be opening in the beginning of October, so we… Next week? Well, in person school. Yeah. Some kids are going in person next week, so… Right. The younger one and the… So… So we’ll have a report on the first day of school. Right. We should get numbers by then, huh? Real numbers. Of who’s in person, who’s virtual. I mean, we just have a percentage right now, but we may get some real numbers. Well, I’ll tell you, I have a college kid who’s in college with nine days straight of no cases, so… Great. Not all bad. Well, it’s not much fun at college right now. They’re all pulled up in their rooms. They’re having their food delivered to their door. They’re eating… They’re studying in their rooms. They’re going to class in their rooms. They’re eating in their rooms. All right. Do we have a motion to adjourn? Is there any further… So moved. I’ll second that. Ms. Kayslitt? In favor. Ms. Gottlieb? In favor. Dr. Belfbecker? In favor. All right. Thank you, everybody. Thank you.