Board of Health: May 31, 2022

Transcript captured from MHTV’s Vimeo auto-captioning. No speaker labels; proper names and dollar figures occasionally misheard. Click any timecode to jump to that moment in the source video.

0:00 Called meaning to order good evening pursuant to chapter 20 of the acts of 2021 in act relative to extending certain covid-19 measures adopted during the state of emergency signing Salah on June 1621. This meeting will be conducted by a remote participation. No in-person attendance by members of the public will be permitted specific information and the general guidelines for remote participation by members of the public and/or parties. With a right and a requirement to attend this meeting can be found on the title of our webs website https cohen/ww.marblehead.org/health under agendas and tonight’s agenda. For this meeting members of the public who wish to watch participate in meeting May do so in the following manner by inserting meeting ID number four three, four seven. Oh one one six five eight on

0:48 Zoom or dial-in phone number. 253-215-8782 or 3017158592. And if we could do a roll call to start the meeting, please enter. Miss Joanne Miller president miscellaneously present and Dr. Todd Bill Becker present. Okay, so we have one item on our agenda tonight. And that is a public hearing of about the rules and regulations relative to the keeping of fouls with the town of Marblehead may be taken. So let’s begin our discussion and we will open it up after that for the public and then we will take our vote but the public hearing has commenced. It is 731 on May 31st 2022. So we did have a discussion at our last meeting quite in

1:36 depth discussion about the regulations and proposed changes that Andrew read to us

1:45 Was there any further discussion changes questions that the board has? And if the board would like we could I can share my screen and the board can go through the changes that we talked about at the last meeting. Right great. Great. Yeah, let’s do that because I was just doing that myself and yeah good.

2:21 And I never wants to do it this way. No, never never does what you want to here

3:15 It’s just configuring the document so sure.

3:21 just

3:33 So as if we do change our regulations, this is the reason why we public hearing it’s required to have us do it in this manner so that we can actually enact a change.

3:46 Right. It’s coming Andrew. Everybody should see that rules and regulations relative to the keeping a foul within the town of Marblehead. Yes. Mm-hmm. And you spend quite a bit of time reading this last time. I don’t think that’s necessary to read it again, but there are a couple specific places that we had discussed changing. Yes, so on.

4:23 Let’s see here.

4:26 On page two. All right. So on page two, it’s not showing the corrections as they are in in red but you’ll see under foul foul should include or shall include but not limited be limited to chickens pigeons capons and turkeys pheasant guinea fowl ducks and geese other than wild species roosters are not allowed.

4:56 So you put the word roosters are not allowed and also you’re just across out the word roosters. That’s correct. That’s good. But before you turn the page, I had a question on that chronic nuisance conditions. Could you just explain that to us? Okay, so chronic nuisance conditions property on which three or more nuisance activities occur or exist during a 60-day period each day shall constitute a separate nuisance activity. So if we have a neighbor complaining about rodents or odor, this is where the chronic nuisance conditions would come into play.

5:36 But if three neighbors complain in one day that’s still one nuisance or is that what? so Well, yeah, so it would occur that way but so three or more nuisance activities occur or exist during a 60-day period but so if it was three days in a row. Right, that’s three nuisances. So that would you know, that would trip this. So you’d have those three or more nuisance activities, but not of three people call about the same thing. And then one day nope, not of three people called about the city if everybody was calling about odor in the same day. That would be one nuisance complaints. But if it was not corrected that day if it continued for three days, it would be three or more nuisance activities occur. So that would be a chronic nuisance condition.

6:24 So pretty stringent. Yeah. I just wanted to make sure that if you’ve got every neighbor calling in the same day, it’s still one news. Nope, that would be one nuisance for that day. But if the on the second day if it occurred again, that’ll be a second nuisance and and so on. Okay. Thank you.

6:48 on page 3 permit holder any person who has met the conditions of this regulation and has received a permit issued by the Board of Health to keep fowl.

7:00 Right because before it’s an animals, right? Yeah and

7:06 You make a space there. Yep. I’ll make a space there.

7:12 section 4D All permitted fouls must be and it should be just foul.

7:21 It does say file. There’s no guess yeah, all permanent fell must be confined to the property by secured fencing to prevent The Escape of foul unless the permit holder as documented in writing to the satisfaction of the board including obtaining any necessary permissions arrangements for such Innovative animals to be killed kept elsewhere right? Crazy Pest Control Etc. To change that animals to follow on the yeah, so a change Escape of animals. I change it to escape a foul. No, but I’m talking about the last line of that. Arrangements of such animals to be kept elsewhere. So when you’re talking about such animals those animals are the foul.

8:03 I think it’s fine to keep animals. Yeah, I would change it to focus. That’s why we change the word animals.

8:11 but when we’re taking out the word animals all throughout this. Okay, that’s fine. I did.

8:25 We’re not talking about other kinds of animals in this day. It’s the same bow.

8:32 Okay.

8:36 moving on just to four conditions conditions for granting a permit to keep foul. It was animals. D the permit shell expire one year after issuance unless sooner revoked or suspended by the Board of Health. After a hearing or by the board after hearing before it said to all all permits for keeping of animals are for one year. If the permit holder is not the owner of the property documentation must be provided indicating that the property owner is not opposed to the keeping of foul on the property.

9:15 again animal to foul age

9:23 and Section 8 hearings But Section 8 you said respect. I’m only going to the the changes here. So Section 8 hearings be notice of the public hearing shall be sent by the applicant to each of the persons appearing on upon the assessors most recent valuation lists as the owners of the property of budding on the permanent premises where the permit is intended to be exit exercise at least 14 days prior to the hearing the applicant shell submit a list of a Butters certified by the Board of Health assessor with the copy of the notice male and a sworn statement that the applicant has mailed the notice to each of butter by first class mail.

10:13 so the attention To do that this is yeah. It’s up to the applicant and then the applicant will provide proof as in the the this Warren statement. So now and that takes out the registered mail and return receipt. That’s correct. So it’s first class mail only. So just first note if we want to say that that the board of the Board of Health would like a copy of that letter. Would that be? All right, that’s why. I mean so we in the

10:53 so we have a letter so notice of intent to file application for permit to keep animals. We’ll go over the second page. So there’s a form letter that will provide to the applicant of what they’re supposed to send out. So what if they wanted to email their their neighbors? They can’t it’s not that’s not allowed. Just just first class mail. Yep, or it says a sworn statement, um has been made has mailed the notice that each of butter. So it has to be mailed. It says first class mail right here. Yeah. Right has females but it does not say that the board will get a copy. No, it does not say that the board will get a copy. But obviously you would you know, we know exactly what the letters Gonna

11:40 State but.

11:44 But what if somebody shows up and said I never got the letter is an important to have to deal with that. It’s better than that the applicant doing it. Then the the department doing it really the exact same situation. I agree that hundred percent, but maybe we got a copy we would know that they it was sent. Is there is it too late to put that in? No, it’s not too late to put it in. That’s why we’re having this discussion. So you’re saying that the applicant? shell nailed to notice to each other as well as a copy to the board of health or to the health department are the applicant will provide a copy of the letter to the health department. Yes, please.

12:25 Just one extra letter. That’s Well, it’s just a copy. Yeah. And check that person can put if it’s four letters or six letters all in one envelope. Or drop it off so you won’t have but the applicant so you’re asking that the applicant will provide a copy of the letter to the board. Yes. Yes, but you but then it’s sounded like you wanted the board to have one each one to each year. Yes each letter so that anybody that is has a problem. We’ll we will say well we’ve gotten the letter you must have got it all. So the applicant will provide a copy of all the letters.

13:08 Yes, I’m sorry.

13:12 Um, yes, I but it’s it’s up to that’s up.

13:18 To end you have opinion on this one. Um, my yes, I think I think that might be valuable. I just wonder aren’t we getting once the a Butters they would they would respond potentially if they had a problem probably come in with the letter. I’m gathering right or they would be acquiescing and thinking they’re happy to have some new neighbors with some newfowl nearby. So yes, so the idea is that they would talk talk to the applicant. They can talk to the the department and then they would be notified of the hearing and they could speak publicly during the hearing as well. Yeah, so the applicant will provide a copy of all a butter letters to the board. But to the health department, which it’s all

14:05 to the board, so it’s you know, I’ll stay with same language. Yes, if the rest of the committee agrees with it. I originally interpreted what you said is, um, just to copy the letter that they’re sending, you know address to the board instead of to the neighbor, but but to be clear you want every single butter whether it’s two or ten you want that letter sent to that’s right. We approve that they were sent. Yes, okay. You worked at an emotion. Are you is there a problem with no motion of okay? So yeah, I I think that’s fine. Enjoy, it. Sounds like you do too. Yeah. Yes, that’s fine.

14:51 That’s it. That’s it.

14:55 The day May 31st. Yeah, so what about those other two sheet the other things are that’s you. Yes, so we can talk about the other two sheets because everything needs to be voted on. And so obviously this will become effective today May 31st 2022.

15:15 I know get to um, you know comments after the board has discussed this. Can I can I ask a question? I really appreciate the thorough. This is a very thorough help way to approach this. So there’s not a lot of questions, but I was wondering Andrew if you could help us understand if

15:36 say a family agrees and says yes, this is fine. We’re happy to have this and but they start to change their mind as time goes on some problems arise and there are three complaints on different days. Can you tell me what that would look like as for the board and for the neighbors and for the foul Keepers to you know, can you can you envision what that what that process would look like and have because I’m imagining if there’s a problem before it becomes a bigger problem.

16:12 You know. And if it’s a two weeks, it looks like there would be invited to come and talk about it. They’d have. There could be a significant amount of time between it being addressed. So I was wondering if you could help us walk us through how you would Envision this potentially looking if there’s a problem. Yeah, so if we’re notified of you know from the butter about a potential problem, you know pest can Pest Control odor we would contact, you know, we would issue a letter we would go out to the butters property and and see the nuisance for ourselves, you know, recognize the nuisance for ourself discuss the nuisance with the neighbor issue a nuisance letter. To the permit holder of the foul and state, you know, these are your

17:00 these are the nuisance that we but you know that you need to be corrected. The applicant so the person that owns the file has the right to appeal my decision and go straight to the board. Or they would fix it. And obviously if it continued it would be a back and forth, but eventually if it continues on. The board can essentially say you’re no longer allowed to have a foul permit. This is the only year that you’ll be able to have it.

17:29 so so suppose the problem is such that the neighbors are really disrupted and getting angry and feeling you know, this is a grave nuisance. The people can still keep the the foul through that year while they hold the permit or can that permit be terminated? So the hardest thing is that obviously what’s gonna happen with the foul. Um, so yeah, you know, that’s the issue is like, you know, so now the the permanent holders would have to find a home for the foul. Now if the animals are being neglected, obviously we could bring in some State authority to look at the neglects and potentially those animals would be removed from that property

18:14 regardless of what we’re trying to do.

18:19 I think it’s worth doing, you know, good points are bringing up to end but but in my experience, we haven’t had any issues with bowels and town for years and years and years. So it is important to have everything in writing in case but but I think that it’s a very one-off. It’s a very remote concern to have. Okay. Thank you. Thank you so much. I have a question. Also Andrew about fees is that is that something that we should is their languages about fevers out a completely separate? Yes, so I can if if we’re done discussing the regulations I can also go on to the application for the permit to keep foul and then notice of intent to file application for permit to keep animals. We should say foul.

19:05 Okay. Yeah, the separate documents. That’s what yeah, so, let me open that up to

19:27 This is the butter notification.

19:31 We’ll say oh.

19:38 This is the form letter helane that will be sent out. To all the butters to the property located at the address and Marblehead Mass. You were hereby notified pursuant to the rules and regulations relative to the keeping a foul within the town of Marblehead over hearing on an application for a permit to keep so many foul number of foul on the type of foul on the property located the above address to be held on the date, please submit Any comments or concerns to the Board of Health office? No later than close a business at 5 pm on 14 days after mailing date so that any comments will be included with this application name on the name of applicant. So this application they don’t have to write their own letter. The letters already know the letter is

20:24 written for them. Correct, right? Perfect. And obviously the yes, you can submit a letter to the board. It would always read your letter into the record. We always recommend that you come to a hearing and voice the concerns for yourself. I always feel that it’s stronger coming out of the individual that owns the property that out of myself because I’m just gonna read the letter. Okay.

20:51 You’re talking about the applicant or the complaint.

20:56 um complaint Okay. Thank you.

21:02 And let me share my screen again.

21:14 Thank you guys. See this or no? Yeah.

21:28 There we go. All right. A Marblehead, so this is the application for the permit to keep foul town and Marblehead Board of Health. It’s still your menu is up.

21:59 See that now. Yeah.

22:04 I tell my motherboard of Health I’m gonna make this.

22:20 What my blood Board of Health Mary Ali seven, which road Marblehead Mass application to permit to keep vowel fee 25 dollars. So the applicant would provide the fee of $25 and it’s an annual renewal of $25. So we’re gonna keep it as simple as possible. We don’t get a lot of these applications. So the first time you you know, your applying for this it’s $25 and then every year after that it’s 25 dollars to renew your so is this a new application? Yes or no renewal application due date for Renewal. So this will be on an annual basis so that the event will expire December. Of that year, so, you know December 31st of that year.

23:07 They only have to apply once to ask their neighbors. They don’t just their neighbors every year. That’s correct.

23:14 So it’s $25. For the permit but there’s no separate application fees that the way there’s no application. Correct? Yeah. So what is it currently? It’s just application fee and you never pay again. No, so it’s an annual permit fee. Of 25 dollars and it all right. So but we had talked about having an initial application fee because of the research. We’re just going to keep this really simple and just keep it an application fee or permit to keep foul. So if you know, so yeah. But what you talked about what you thought that it was a lot of extra work for the office is all this include, you know, obviously there’s always review and stuff like that and you’re gonna be paying $25 for the application fee. Um,

23:59 so you’ll pay that money. Obviously, then it’s got to go to the board the board will decide how it’s gonna go and we’ll move forward you’ll either grant their permit or I’ll be denied but it’s gonna be a one-time fee or an annual fee of 25 dollars. But yes that first application fees 25 and then moving forward to permanent fee. But yes, I’m not gonna charge extra. It just gets too complicated sometimes with all the the fees and stuff like that. Okay.

24:28 Good.

24:31 Um, so address of property where the fellow be kept type a number of foul. Is this a year-round operation? Is it a seasonal operation? Yeah, believe it or not. People are now renting chickens or that’s that’s a potential so no, is it a temporary permit? No, but is it a temporary situation?

24:51 Property Owners plot fans. So all the stuff is required a plot plan including the following handjob plot plan is acceptable. So as long as It is of sufficient detail including actual dimensions topographical information says a lot with structures present primary residence septic system of necessary and private Wells for the most part. We do not have any the majority of properties in town are on private sewer, but on private Wells but we still need to ask this question. I do still have a few homes that are on private Wells and there is a potential that they have a private septic. So I we kept it in there certified list of the butters adjacent to the property where the following to be kept proof of a butter notification a sign

25:37 letter notification from each of butter. All right, so I need to change this.

25:54 a sign that I’ve notication of from each of

26:00 it’s just gonna be proof of notification.

26:04 But a notification as it’s called out the regulation. Applicant must allow for 14-day comment period after notification as indicated on the sample now notification letter. This may be submitted at the time of the hearing structures plan for the use of the intended foul including fences and Corrals dimensions of the area where the follow to be kept distance of Housing and enclosures from all the butters structures property lines and wetlands a written management plan appropriate for the species of animals kept for the following a manure management plan a feed management plan and The Pest Management plan. On the following resources, I can be used and then I you know. questions

26:51 Pretty straightforward. Mm-hmm.

27:00 So I’m gonna stop sharing my screen.

27:11 Was there a third document to share or is that those are the three documents? So it’s the rules and regulations the notice of the the letter the butter letter? And then the application itself, okay.

27:27 Is there anything further Helena Joanne because if not, I will open it up to the public. But you playing your muted.

27:39 Thank you.

27:43 Did you have something for I just I had turned I had muted myself for a moment and that I couldn’t on you. Okay, so let’s open up to public comment as As our policy, I will recognize you in the order that you raise your hand and everybody will have two minutes to speak.

28:06 Looks like and if you just also introduce yourself when we meet you, so first was Michael.

28:23 Hi. Hello. Hi Todd. How are you? My name is Michael keratinudo. I’ll be directing my comments to be respectful of everybody’s time tonight. My goal this evening is really to persuade the board to table this regulation until a formal and detailed analysis can be completed helping inform the board of the best regulation if any for livestock and our densely populated town. I along with many of my neighbors who I hope speak up tonight. Are concerned regarding the regulation and its ability to ensure? That families are able to quietly safely and peacefully enjoy their properties while I agree that folks should be able to do mostly what they want. This regulation should be intended to ensure that one person’s desire for foul does not impact the lives of many surrounding community members who want to ensure that it

29:11 does not impact them. Let’s face it if everyone in town at 10 acres of land, this would not be an issue an issue. But this is a densely populated area that presents challenges for any livestock and I believe that the quiet enjoyment of our properties with our families should be prioritized over other considerations given that this town is not Farmland anymore. Okay to the regulation itself first. It has not focused on the quality of life that I just mentioned and any impact to others given the posts it excuse me, close proximity in town. Fowl or loud and they smell the setback requirements included within the regulation are far too low and frankly intended for sheds not structures, which will house live animals the township perform a study to determine the minimum lot size requirements and setback requirements

29:56 that clearly remove the potential for any impact the neighborhoods in which they’ll be placed. The Town of Beverly has recently removed resident’s ability. I was foul and I quote from the Court decision in the matter. There is evidence submitted by the city showing the potential for live chickens to carry germs. And that there have been reports of more rats coming to the area by Neighbors in the Court’s view on balance. It is the public most particularly the neighbors and a Butters in close proximity to the premises who have legitimate concerns regarding odors germs and rats that will suffer. Outside of noise and smell concerns the town in general in my area in particular every house has a dog. My guess is that without significant setback requirements my dog

30:41 and others will see increased barking and noise. I urge the board to engage somebody a consultant to determine what an appropriate setback requirement and minimum lot size should be whether or not Conservation Area or coyotes reported in the area increased scrutiny as part of this regulation. Secondly an importantly regarding the regulation. It presents it offers no discussion of how the board will determine whether an applicant is approved outside of saying it’ll be determined at a board meeting. The board is likely to be in a situation where in order to make an applicant happy. You have to reduce the quality of life for any of the neighbors that oppose the application. I ask you how many neighbors need to be against for the board not to approve 5 10 20. If the purpose of the public comment process is to

31:28 assess the applicant’s character then perhaps that should be stated and criteria determined. Otherwise, how are you going to choose who prevails? Further if an application is approved and the and five of us complain tonight, you’re saying now can take up to a year for it to be rectified. That’s that’s that’s that’s way too long in my opinion. If many neighbors are against the initial application, I would hope that that would send a strong message to the Board of Health. As it relates to governance. I’m a little concerned that the board is seeking public comment tonight and appears to be ready to approve this regulation without publicly disclosing the regulation in advance nor when it was discussed. Last meeting did the board. They just received it. You just gotten it that meeting. It’s been less than two weeks to significantly

32:13 change the amount to regulation around foul in the town. And I asked I asked rhetorically did the board evaluate any of the materials that my neighbors to provided to Mr. Petty weeks ago as part of the process. The lack of formal public disclosure is concerning as it limits the town’s ability to properly evaluate the regulation and provide feedback to the board the board should seek out public comment and I encourage you and engage with the public at large for other comments. And why should this regulation be rushed you folks are literally making changes during this meeting, right? I think it’s I think it should be sent out to the public again. Finally and I’m wrapping up here. Although there’s no application in front of the board tonight. My guess is that there’s gonna be strong opposition to the request by the choices. By many neighbors including almost all the

33:01 butters for a variety of factors including rodent concerns at plague the area. I asked the board keep an open mind for making a decision on their application as we believe it’ll greatly impact our lives and our properties and you lack any background as to why almost all surrounding neighbors have concerns. There are factors here that are that are not best suited for public debate. However, the proposed regulation requires that we voice them which unfortunately will likely lead to the opposite desire that the you Mrs. Miller had in the previous meeting where folks remain neighborly. Thank you for your time tonight, please I ask that you table this regulation until further analysis can be completed. Thank you.

33:44 Is there anybody else who has the comment?

33:49 No, okay. Oh, okay. Yeah.

33:59 Yeah, good evening. Um nice to see you guys again. I actually have if you just introduce yourself, please. Oh, of course. Yeah Alma again one six five West Shore Drive. I’m also the attorney for the Joyce’s. I’m helping us in this application. I have a couple questions. about the

34:19 what the the corrected regulations of the foul one about chronic Continuum chronic nuisance. I kind of I I understand what it is, but the only place I saw in the regulations was in the definition for chronic nuisance, but there wasn’t anything about that. I was wondering if if chronic nuisance will actually be if there’s gonna be some kind of of a notice for specific chronic nuisance or if chronic it’s if you have chronic nuisance and automatically the permit is declined. I mean why exactly is chronic nuisance, I guess mentioned in the in the regulations. I guess. That’s my first question.

35:04 And then the second and as I was wondering I did see that you did draft the letter for the butters if I’m not mistaken, right? I just I don’t you did that which was great. I had that because I didn’t have that in the um, and the document that was sent today and I think maybe also the sworn testimony could also just be given to the applicant as well just to streamline the application process. Maybe that would be helpful. And then the third thing that I have is about the burden of proof. That was mentioned. I think a number eight.

35:40 It’s maybe I’m just going to open it up if you want to open up on the screen.

35:47 and Section 8 for the hearings number c it says that the applicant must demonstrate that the issuance of a permit she’ll not be detrimental in any way to the public welfare and what on endanger the health and safety. I’m not really sure that the burden of proof should be on the applicant because the question is are different applicants from David neighborhoods and different streets. Going to be assessed differently. I mean isn’t the whole thing about this regulation is that if an applicant goes all of these things, you know all of the different requirements and regulations and in applicant can receive a permit without the burden

36:34 of proof on the applicant to show to demonstrate that giving the permit will not be detrimental to the public welfare. I mean, I think if one perhaps maybe to show that it was then tremendous to the public welfare should be maybe in the appeal process or maybe it’s going to be the burning of the town to show that it denied a permit or it revoked a permit because it was detrimental to the public welfare. I just don’t I really believe that putting this burden on the applicant might make the Board of Health basically treat different applicants differently and I’m just not sure why the burden of proof is On the applicant himself or herself. And again, what are the requirements for the

37:22 Board of Health to actually determine what will be detrimental and what not will be detrimental. I’m just like Mr. Coward Tonto. I don’t remember. Sorry. If I’m not pronouncing your your last name correctly Michael, but you know, if five people five a Butters come and say we don’t want to permit is that a shot is that a sign of detrimental as opposed to zero abouters? And if that is assigned and again, we’re going back to the same problem that we had where if somebody doesn’t like a neighbor, you know, then people can basically come and make sure that they’re not going to receive the permit. So I think that leaving that burden of proof on the applicant to show that the application that a permit will not be the tremendous to the public. I think it puts us on in the same in the same square. Basically,

38:10 we might be treating different applicants differently depending on their street their location and specific. Typically how well they alike there are Butters.

38:20 Can I can I can I jump in with potentially a question to your question my understanding as I as I appreciate your question very much. But isn’t it just that request goes back to section 7 which is asking for these conditions to be maintained the conditions that are to avoid detriment, you know to keep the premises where the foul are kept to make sure that animals exhibit symptoms consistent with you know disease prevention. So my understanding yeah. Being very new to this.

39:01 You know area of Interest. It looks like section 7 is really outlining very clearly. And thoroughly, what would avoid detriment you know, if the these Fowler are kept safely and their conditions are with the best interest of everyone laid out. I mean, does that seem to answer your question perhaps that it looks to me that Those are really well outlined in section 7 because I think if I was someone that was interested in in getting chickens or excuse me vowel.

39:43 And I wanted to adhere to some of these, you know regulations that would point me in the direction of doing so safely. Do you does that make sense? Is that reasonable? It it does make sense. I’m just not sure that it would hold muster in the legal system. Because if that is what the board meant basically saying that if an applicant shows that it will Implement all of section 7 then perhaps it should be written that way. so this was written by a Town Council, so obviously this is you know,

40:28 That just really jumped to me because because one again, I think that these regulations I mean we have exactly what the applicant can do and you know specifications. I mean how things are supposed to be built, you know every I mean the measurements, I mean we have we have a lot of specification and that’s the whole thing. I mean for my understanding is we’re trying to put all these rules and regulations on an applicant in order to ensure that everything will be done, you know quote unquote by the book, but when you’re correctly this is a not a buyer right permit exactly this yeah exactly is but I’m just I’m just trying to understand what kind of extra demonstration Disney does an applicant need to do to show

41:14 that it won’t be detrimental. So obviously there’s there’s three outlines and the application the manure management plan is a large piece to the application the feed management plan. And the past management plan is three large documents that they have to prepare and submit to the board. The butters also get to bring in character how the key up keeping of the yard. Do they own a pet? Do they take care of the pet? Do they pick up after the pet? All these items have to be reviewed by the board and that that way the applicant must demonstrate that the issues of the permit shall not be detrimental to any way to the public welfare.

41:54 Okay. I mean I I don’t want to go back and forth, but it just it’s it seems to me that this might put a burden on an applicant that and it will be very difficult for them to to show that it won’t be detrimental and I think it may be a more clarification or even you know specify in section c of Section 8, you know that it just it has to abide by you know section 7 or show exactly the three things that you just mentioned. I think really pinpointing it would be would be would be maybe beneficial not only for the applicant but also for the Board of Health because then you can actually have a template of you know, what things need to be checked and what not and it’s just not in an open question. Thank you. I think it’s worth saying that we have

42:40 been doing fellow permits for years and years and years and the main purpose of our hearing tonight is just to formalize. And and make more concrete what the regulations are the majority of changes that Andrew read to us are just changing the work animal to foul. Nothing is really changing except the one big change. Is that the board rather than the neighbors now have the final final say, I think that’s That’s the most important change and really the only significant change. That’s not just just verbiage now. the applicant can come before the board whether or not they have a sign off from the neighborhood and then

43:25 the neighborhood can come to our meeting and our hearing as well as the applicant and and that’s where the decision we made rather than Then before I think that’s that’s really the only significant change and we have like I said before we’ve had. Tens of permits over the years and we haven’t had any complaints from from anybody as far as I know Android. I mean it’s once once they’re in people take care of their chickens and their foul and and the neighborhood. hasn’t complained and they have every right to we haven’t had to revoke any permits. So that’s just just my clarification.

44:04 Is there anybody else from the board? have any more to put in there, and I just mentioned one more thing. Again. Thank you so much for taking this issue under consideration and acting in in a swift way and really putting it into regulations. I think it will be really beneficial for the whole Marblehead Community to have these in our regulations. So, thank you. Thanks. I may have to say after after we hear from if there are others to speak but I’ll wait for that.

44:39 There’s nobody already feel there’s no other hands raised so we’ll close the public comment and See one of the neighbors thought that other about us we’re going to sleep. There’s no other hands raised so we will close the public comment portion of the meeting. and now if you have any final discussion and we can take a vote. Well, I’d like to say something. I think that that one of the about is raised some big issues and I I think there may be I don’t like to say this but I think there may be a hidden agenda or a an elephant in the room. And I’m not sure whether it’s directed at this particular. Applicant or application and if

45:25 there is and if we need to take some time. I think that I would there’s we have a meeting in two weeks and I would just Do what somebody has asked to do to request? us delay I think you have to hit handle each application separately. So the application if there’s an application from a neighbor at that time, you can handle that. You shouldn’t be delaying the adoptions of these regulations because of the concern about the potential of somebody getting chickens. You need to deal with that during the permitting and application process for that property. But this was all this was brought up by the

46:12 applicant’s attorney. If the applicant’s attorney did not bring this up. We would never brought this vowel permit up ourselves. It’s actually the applicant who the applicant who did it when they came to our meeting. Yeah until the applicants attorney. But together the applicants engagement attorney and the attorney has spoken to this quite was quite like the discussion. to two meetings ago, but I think if you’re saying to me that we can adopt the regulations which are very helpful for General concerns but if we’re then going

46:57 to be asked to then

47:01 discuss the permitting of an applicant

47:06 I think at this time I think that

47:12 Is this there’s something that’s behind this whole thing. Then there’s two salvation before you there is no replicate know that after doing Atlantic clarify then all we’re doing is voting on. a new regulation with some some a few different items that are changing animals to follow and having this very nice notice of intent to file an application and the new application so and then each each permit. However, many people in town want to have fellow in the property. Each one will be handled Case by case at our meetings with whoever wants to say yay or nay about it in the neighborhood

47:58 can do something but we will have the regulations in effect before anybody can have an application. but we are being asked by one of the About no no, you can’t you do not have you cannot discuss an application. That’s not before you no, but yeah better it was not just an application. That is not before you. Well, this gentleman spoke Michael. He spoke about the rules and regulations about whether we should have other things stated about about the size of the property about the setback about coyotes and I don’t know whether that’s things have all been well vetted

48:43 Helen I believe that I mean

48:48 And and I would hope I would hope that he and anybody else would come to the next meeting or whatever. The application is because that’s that’s when their chance to really speak about the specific neighborhood would be but I mean these These are these are very well established rules that we have and we’ve been doing this for a long time with you and I’ve said on the you and I have sat on this board from several years, and we’ve approved as you said chickens and there have been no problems. I I just hope So if there are issues that arise the board can go back and review these regulations and adopt changes. We only need to post the meeting, you know 48 hours in advance.

49:34 And you know, these are not set in stone like Town bylaws. These are border Health regulations that can be changed on a regular basis if the board chooses to do that so you could review these on an annual basis and see if any changes need to be made you can hold another public hearing and make those changes. This is all within the board’s control. Yes, but here we’re rewriting our we’re replacing one regulation with another. No you’re changing your adopt you’re changing a policy and adopting regulations. And we are now going to adopt this new policy and these are regulations. I just use the word regulations and you said no.

50:17 so these regulations are the ones that we’re asked to vote on tonight. Why in God’s name would we change them and you know events from now if we haven’t voted on these, you know for how many years when was the last one written? and

50:33 I mean that’s just a hypothetical question but a while ago and now we’re asking to vote on them if there’s something that anybody feels that this but that we’re not addressing. then I thought that possibly we should discuss that that things that we would that were brought up to us. Today about Beverly not having any chickens will mate. We’re not Beverly but we’ve had good good. We’ve had good luck with the other chickens. I just my original concern is that which was with the saint with our other regulations is if there’s the party that a group of Neighbors

51:19 Do not wish to. Have these foul. I feel the that the owners is now on the on the about is in not on the applicant and that’s just what I’m concerned about now. Maybe you could answer that question. Is there more on us on the abutters now that they’re going to have to come forward to the hearing and make it like issue a complaint before someone is allowed to have chickens or found this is the standard permanent process for regulations for many boards across, you know, the Commonwealth as far as adopting, you know, having a variance hearing for a septic system of variance hearing for it. Well a zoning board variance requests

52:07 to the planning or the zoning board. This is the public process. So if you know an applicant will submit there were requests to the board to have foul. The butters are allowed. This is a public process. It gives everybody a right to speak and voice their opinion and concerns and this way there’s nothing done behind the scenes. It’s all out in the open. This is the most you know, this this is a fair and honest process

52:39 Okay. Well, the only thing is, I don’t know if it’s creating good neighbors is the Johannes is you know has expressed earlier by having them to come out. I know that if you I don’t think the board is here to Creek in Neighbors. We’re trying to protect the health and the welfare of the town of Marvel, you know citizens or Marvel. The way I see it people have a right to apply for a permit and their neighbors have a right to come and tell us why they don’t or why they’re supportive it were or against it. And and then we are the final. People to make that decision based on what we’re hearing. Yep, and I think that’s what the regulations really caught by. So it’s just like if I were going for building perimeter something like that. change the design of something that on a home

53:27 But about us would be notified and they could come forward. And is that the very clear? path for trying to meet that and I think I think it’s very thorough very clear. very codified and I feel I feel comfortable with this. I know.

53:54 To Andrew’s point if if as time goes on there’s things we need to to investigate further. I think each of us is very willing to do so, and I also really appreciate the effort that went into

54:10 Clean this together and then editing with all these English Majors to make sure we had you know, very well. Well worded. Map for people that are interested in in this Pursuit. No, I think the regulations, you know spoke for themselves, but then there were other issues were brought up. I am going to vote in favor of the regulations, but I hope that because they read well to me. I hope that if others if people have issues later on like Andrew has invited them to bring other. Issues to us and we’ll have to listen to those.

54:51 And we’re doing this if we do this tonight, it would be for the entire Talent. It wouldn’t be neighborhood by neighborhood. It would be a sweeping town wide set of regulations. And that’s that’s important too because then at our meetings it can go Case by case. That’s a good side also. thank you Andrew for putting so much effort into this and working with the With our legal counsel in last last meeting reading all nine pages over to us when I had asked you to go over it. I didn’t expect you to read a word for word. I thought maybe would do it like we did today, but thank you for doing what you did.

55:29 Okay, so you did just say you would be in favor only. Do you have a motion? Yes make

55:35 Joey can make the motion. Okay, I would like to make a motion to approve. this approve the rules and regulations relative to the keeping of fouls within the town of Marblehead. our second bit cool Joanne Miller in favor Celine Hazlet in favor, Dr. Todd golf Becker in favor. Do we need a motion for each of the three documents Andrew? Yep, please.

56:08 Mayonnaise I’m gonna make a motion on the applicant for the permit to keep file. The feasts remains at 25 dollars. No, I want you to approve the application paperwork. So obviously the states on the application the fees $25, but I want to approve the whole document so the application and permit to keep fowl that that and permit to keep phone. I make a motion to approve the application to keep in permit file. a second

56:44 Do we have a second? Miscellaneously? In favor Ms. Joanne Miller in favor, Dr. Todd belfryker in favor, and we don’t need our third motion please to I’ll make those intent. Make a motion to approve the notice of intent to file application for permit to keep animals. Thousand to keep phone. Thank you fell sorry Fells and Second for discussion and we when we made that original motion, we had those two Corrections that it’s all as corrected. Oh, that’s corrected. Okay good. I think two Corrections. I’m sorry about that. Yes. second

57:34 Mr. Wayne Miller in favor, I’m listening Hazelwood in favor, Dr. Todd Dolph Becker in favor. Okay, thank you. The public hearing portion is closed before we adjourn I just wanted to talk about our next meeting date. Um, we have it scheduled for June 14th at 8 o’clock because of Village School concert, which I thought was at 6:30 turns out it’s at seven. So I wanted to know if you would be free on either the 13th or the 15th that week. I’m free both techniques. Okay. Yeah the 13th. I have Marblehead mental health task force, but the 15th. I am free. So if everybody is good with the 15th at 7:30, let’s do that because School concert has to come first we all

58:20 have to go to the school concert. You don’t want to go.

58:28 Even though they do a wonderful job.

58:33 So is it and so with the regular time at 7:30? Yes, I think that would work. That works for me. Okay, great. So do we have a motion to adjourn? You know. seconded Right. Miscellaneous. He’s looked okay, it’s Joanne Miller in favor, Dr. Todd golf Becker in favor. Thanks everybody.