Board of Health: December 10, 2024

Transcript captured from MHTV’s Vimeo auto-captioning. No speaker labels; proper names and dollar figures occasionally misheard. Click any timecode to jump to that moment in the source video.

0:03 I’d like to welcome everybody to, uh, tonight’s Board of Health meeting December 10th, 2024, the last meeting of this year. And we’re looking forward to another year. And I, uh, wish everybody happy holidays and safe, uh, travels if they’re traveling, and, um, I hope everybody will be safe and healthy and happy. So, um, our first item on the agenda is we have a guest, uh, attorney is attorney, doctor, or just attorney? Attorney. Attorney Cheryl Ra. She’s the Executive director and senior staff attorney at the Mass Association of Health Boards. And she’s going to give us some training that, uh, we may, may learn something tonight.

0:48 I hope we do learn something because I thank you very much for coming. Uh, I called you because we need, thought we needed some training and get some information that we might need to proceed. And, uh, you said the training was in May and June and one was, I think in Worcester and one in Natick. If I’m Get out that way anyhow, is it with my, well, Almost right, almost Right. Where are they? They’re in April and May, um, April 5th in Plymouth. Plymouth, um, at Hotel 1620 I think it’s called. And the one on April 26th is in North Hampton. North Hampton at Hotel North Hampton. And the one on May 10th is in Marlborough. Oh.

1:36 Um, and those are three annual certificate programs that we run there, a day long from nine until four. Um, you asked if I could come out do some an abbreviated very abbreviated, um, presentation on the legal authority of Fort Health, and I’m more than happy to do that. Well, thank you. Because you’ve traveled here in the dark and rainy Meetings are usually a little earlier 30. That’s, And I try to do that, but That’s okay. And happy to be here. Our third board member, uh, wife had a baby two nights ago. Oh, Congratulations. That’s why you were talking about babies. Yeah. And, and, um, so he is busy with, uh, other things. I

2:22 Bet he is. So, I’m sorry to say that he’s not here, but he, he can see the Absolutely. Your slides. Um, I don’t know if who’s watching at home? I don’t see them in another times. Sure. Thank you. So I Don’t know how you wanna proceed. I’m gonna just turn it over to you. Okay. And I, I just think that if, um, people wanna ask questions, can, should we hold them or should we ask them at this? You can ask them as I go along and I promise not to be too long. This is a long night for you folks and you have a packed agenda. So, um, as was mentioned, I am the executive director and the senior staff attorney for the Massachusetts Association of Boards.

3:02 And, um, I do not represent Marblehead, uh, you have an able attorney who does that. Um, so I am just providing legal education, um, and technical assistance. This presentation is just that, it is legal education. Um, a little bit about MAHB. We are a not-for-profit membership association. Our membership is Board of Health members throughout the Commonwealth. Um, we were actually established way back in 1982 by the Conservation Law Foundation. What was happening is that the attorneys for this foundation were getting a lot of calls from local boards of health about public health law issues,

3:49 and they really had nowhere to go. So, as a result, the Conservation Law Foundation, um, incorporated MAHB as part of the foundation. And since then we’ve grown and gone out on our own. And we do provide legal education to all 351 local boards in, in Massachusetts, plus public health excellence collaboratives, municipal government officials, you know, whoever is interested, or, and also municipal attorneys, whoever is interested in looking in more detail at Public Health’s law. Next slide, please. So, when, when you’re thinking about the legal authority to regulate

4:37 public health and safety, if you look at the federal law, federal law really just sets the minimum standards. They’re basically the floor. And then states can go further than the federal government. And what’s happened in Massachusetts is that the state legislature has dedicated a, has, um, given a lot of its authority to local boards of health. And if you just look at some of the case law, um, that’s come out of our Supreme Judicial Court, which is the highest court in Massachusetts, you’ll see a, a sort of a, a uniform holding that, that that’s really consistent in that, um,

5:22 the legislature delegated its authority to local boards of health. And they’ve done it in a sort of absolute plenary way in that boards of health have the legal authority to enact reasonable public health regulations. So you can adopt local laws just like town meeting can in Marlborough. And the reason that we have this authority is because we have the same police power that fire and police have. Our job as boards of health is within the police power of the municipality to protect the public health, safety, and welfare. And interestingly, zoning has that same obligation.

6:08 Zoning isn’t just about setting up an historic district or making sure signs comply with whatever the decorative elements are in that neighborhood. It’s really about protecting the health, safety and the welfare of its residents. And this is true even at the expense of an individual’s freedom. And even at the expense of the right to engage in business, both business and individuals, um, have to yield to the, to the greater right of government to protect public health by any rational means. So there is a limit. I mean, you have to, it has to be rational what

6:54 what you’re proposing. And we’ll talk a little bit more about that. But we do regulate individual behavior. We require motorcycle helmets, we require smoke detectors. We require a lot of issues that do affect someone’s individual rights. Next slide. So, and, and again, as I said, the SJC has consistently upheld this authority to enact regulations. And a court is going to assume that they’re gonna presume that a regulation enacted by a Board of health is a reasonable public health law. And someone who wants to challenge that regulation is going

7:42 to have to prove the absence of any possible conceivable ground upon which that regulation could be upheld. And my favorite example is what happened in Cambridge, and this was many years ago in the eighties, our 30 little was coming into Cambridge, and their intent was to build a manufacturing plant that manufactured chemical warfare weapons. And they had gone through all the pre-approval process with the building department, the legal department, and all e everywhere they needed to go. They had gone. And, um, the Board of Health in Cambridge, Cambridge had a commissioner form of a health department at the time.

8:28 But, but for our purposes, we’ll just call them the Board of Health. The Board of Health enacted a regulation that prohibited the manufacturing of chemical warfare for weapons within the city. Arthur DeLittle sued the health department claiming that that was not a reasonable public health regulation. And three different studies were commissioned, one from the federal government because they were spending a lot of money on this plant. There were grants from the federal government to Arthur DeLittle, Arthur DeLittle itself, and the city of Cambridge. And all three reports came back virtually saying the same thing, that to a 99% degree of certainty, they did not feel that there would be any, uh,

9:14 public health threat to the residents in the city. The court still upheld that regulation because the court said if the Board of Health felt that there was a 1% chance of a danger, a public health threat to residents and workers in Cambridge, they weren’t gonna substitute their judgment for the judgment of the Board of Health. And that regulation was upheld as a reasonable public health regulation. Um, that’s, that’s one extreme, but it just describes the plenary of power that boards of health have to enact regulations. Next slide, please. And, and when a court looks at it,

10:02 and, and this is what happened, this is why the court held the way it did, they’re not there to look at to, to really weigh the evidence and to find the facts. They’re not gonna substitute their judgment for that of the administrative body, which is what the Board of Health is. It’s an administrative body that has the legal authority to enact laws. So re if, if the board exercised its judgment and did so in a way that was legal, then they’re not gonna substitute their judgment for the judgment of the board. Next slide, please. So, and, and here’s one case that just describes, and this is a much more recent case, um, that describes this in, um, I think in a, an interesting and

10:50 and understandable way. Here was a Board of Health that their health director issued a fine and suspended Cumberland Farms tobacco sales permit because they claimed that Cumberland Farms sold a flavored tobacco product. Now you’ll see that product is called Jazz. There’s nowhere on that product where it says it’s a flavored tobacco product, but the board determined that it was a flavored tobacco product, and they did that next slide. They did that by looking at, um, doing a Google search on the way the product was advertised in social media. And the product was advertised as, uh, it, it, they announced the introduction of a new flavor.

11:38 It has its own unique sweet flavor compared to summer Blend. So they were advertisements online indicating that it was a flavorable product. They also, the board just opened up a package and smelled the package and said, this smells like something other than tobacco, which is what the law says. Next slide. So, um, and, and what the court held was, this is a local regulation that says something has to have a smell or a taste other than the smell or taste of tobacco health directors and inspectors use their sense of smell all the time when they’re enforcing the smoke doesn’t smell right, let’s take a temperature in it.

12:23 Or I think that these flotation devices at this camp, you know, they shouldn’t be smelling of, of, of mildew. Um, this dumpster isn’t big enough because I’m smelling all of these odors that are coming out this dumpster, and it’s a nuisance. So they smell all the time. So the court said, you can smell to determine whether something is flavored or not. Next slide, please. I just threw this in because it makes me, does anyone remember who these guys are? Um, those are the tobacco industry CEOs testifying under oath before Congress that nicotine was not addictive. I just had to throw that in. ‘cause it was, it’s just no one remembers

13:09 that except people like be, that have been doing this for so many years. Next slide. So another case, and you’ll see a lot of cases are surrounding the tobacco issue. And the reason for that is that they have the money to sue. Um, not everyone has the deep pockets that they have. So you’ll see a lot of public health law being decided on these kinds of tobacco litigation kind of cases. So this is another one where the asphalt board of health prohibit by the clubs. The state law says that you can’t smoke in private clubs except under certain circumstances. And you know, when it’s open to the public,

13:54 public, you can’t smoke there. Um, if people aren’t real members, you can’t smoke in there. But what was happening in Athol was that the private clubs were advertising, like they were public bars. They were saying, come down, drinks are cheap. You can get a day membership for five bucks. Um, and, and they were taking money away in business away from the bars in Athal. So the health department called me and asked me, well, what do we do? I said, well, if they’re operating like public bars, they’re violating the state law, so just give them fines. So they tried that and didn’t work. They just ripped up the tickets and kept operating like they were a public bar.

14:39 So they said, now what do we do? And I said, well, you have the legal authority to pass a stricter law than the state law. You could just prohibit smoking in bribing clubs if you want, because the law allows you to be stricter, as we said at the beginning. So that’s what they did. And they were sued by, um, 3D private clubs with money from the tobacco industry, but whatever they were sued. And, um, the case went all the way up to the SJC and we argued on behalf of the town of Athol with their lawyer’s permission, and the lawyer that argued on behalf of the private clubs, uh, it it to poor guy.

15:25 He came to the SJC, which is a beautiful courtroom, and he brought his high school debate team mm-hmm. With him. And so we’re there, you know, arguing the case. One of my colleagues argued it for Athal. And one of the justices looked at the, the attorney for the private clubs and said, basically said, well, are you telling us that we can’t regulate behavior? And he said, yes, you can’t regulate behavior in a private club. And she said to him, well, don’t we require smoke detectors in homes? Isn’t that private behavior that we’re regulating? And he said, well, not really. And she said, can you explain that to me? And he said, yes.

16:10 Um, the reason, first of all, you’re the, the law that requires smoke detectors is only enforced when you’re selling your home. Then the fire department comes in and makes sure that the smoke detector works. And second, that smoke detector is not there to protect the people that live in that home. It’s there to protect the pe, the members of the general public that come in to that home. That was his rationale that that, that it wasn’t about protecting the residents. Well, I always thought having a smoke detector was so that when a fire started, the smoke would wake you up so that you could get out and your kids could get out

16:56 and no one would be hurt or would be killed because the smoke detector woke all the residents up. I mean, and that’s why we require children, um, to wear, um, flame retardant pajamas. Same thing regulating private bay. So the court did uphold, um, the law unanimously, and he went back, and I don’t know what he did with the high school debate team, but in any event, next slide. So there are some limitations on when you should act and when it’s probably better that you don’t act. And first you’re gonna wanna know whether there’s a state or a federal law that would prevent you from acting.

17:42 Have, have, has the state or the federal government, um, preempted your, your, what you’re thinking about doing. And that’s something we can answer for you. Your town attorney can answer for you. Um, very easy thing to, um, figure out. And then you wanna look, really want that balancing test. And again, here when we’re weighing the privacy rights, the business rights versus the risk of public health. So frequently the kind of regulating we do in public health is to protect those that are more susceptible to harm, like youth, the elderly, those with special needs, those that have a hard time advocating and protecting themselves. That’s what a lot of, um, our policies are about.

18:31 And then you wanna look at the risk. Is this a risk to one specific individual or, and, and, and is that a risk that could be controlled? Or is it a risk to, um, a cohort of people? And, and that’s not always dispositive, but it is something that, that we wanna consider. Next slide. So in short, just because you can, doesn’t mean you should, um, you’ll be upheld if you pass the regulation and for all intents and purposes, but that doesn’t mean that you should. Next slide. And I’m gonna explain what I mean here. Um, this is what you wanna think about. Okay? What is the burden that you’re putting on a person

19:17 by passing this reg? Is it a reasonable regulation in light of the town of Marblehead? Um, and is this regulation, whatever intervention you’re doing, whatever regulation you’re thinking about, is it going to be effective? And an example of one that, um, I don’t think would have been affected is in the town of Brookline 25 years ago. Um, they wanted to prohibit the use of cell phones and cars. Now, public health benefit to that. Sure. Would that be considered reasonable? Sure. Was board of health regulation prohibiting cell phone use in cars going to be effective?

20:03 I don’t know about Marblehead, but I don’t think your staff has access to a car with a siren. And I don’t think they are trained in confiscating or asking someone for their license. And what are they gonna do? Stand on the corner and look at every car that goes by to see if some, it’s, it’s not gonna work as a board of health regulation. Um, so that intervention was not going to be effective. And thankfully they changed their mind and, and did not do it. Um, and then eventually the police, which is the proper venue, um, is in charge of a state law that prohibits the use of cell phones. I don’t know how effectively they, they regulate it either, but, but it, it’s where it should be, shouldn’t be with

20:52 a, a health department. Next slide. So, um, what kind of, as we said in a snapshot, I’m not gonna go through this in detail, but the legislature delegated most of its powers to local boards of health. They did it in a variety of ways. In some cases, like the sanitary code, there’s joint jurisdiction, although I haven’t seen, and I bet you haven’t either the state come in and actually enforce the sanitary code, but they have the legal authority to do that. Um, with tobacco laws, um, laws, the tobacco, the legislature actually has written into the law that the primary enforcement agent is the health department. It’s right in the law. They give boards the legal authority to do it right in.

21:37 And as I said, we can strengthen state laws. We can’t make them less strict. We can just make them more strict. Next slide. So in addition to the, the general regulatory authority that we have, we also have in chapter one 11, many, many sections of the law that give boards of health specific authority to regulate and enforce on a variety of issues. And I’ve just listed a few of them here, nuisances, drainage and sewer, the sanitary code, which we talked about, which includes housing and food, and really some inoffensive trades. Next slide. So we’re just gonna talk a little bit about

22:23 the nuisance law because this is a very comprehensive law that enables, well, it doesn’t just enable, it requires boards to examine into all nuisances, sources of filth and causes of sickness, which within a town, which may, in its opinion. Now here we go with the judgment again, which may, in its opinion, harm public health. And when I was in law school and we were studying nuisance law, one of the statements in the textbook was that the, there was perhaps no more impenetrable jungle in the entire law than that, which surrounds the word nuisance. And here you are, board of health members and staff being paid big bucks to figure out how

23:09 to enforce the nuisance statute. Next slide, please. You’re getting big bucks. And, and, and when you, um, if you determine something is indeed a nuisance mm-hmm. You have an obligation to get rid of it or prevent it. Um, exceptions to the nuisance law are generally acceptable farming procedures. Next slide. So an example of a generally accepted farming procedure. You know, I like to say if you want to eat A BLT, someone somewhere is gonna have to smell a pig. It’s that simple. So a, a, a free range piggery is a free, that looks like a free range pigger. Um, next slide. And I would submit that that does too.

23:55 Next slide. I would submit that that does not look like a free range piggery. Um, and this is in fact a case that took place in Western Mass where the owners of this property were saying that this was a, and the Board of Health tried to enforce against them and filed cease and desist orders and everything else. Um, and the, the, the owner sued the Board of Health over this and it went to superior court. And, um, next slide please. Just so you can see, that’s just another picture of it. Um, and it went to superior Court. And in Superior Court, the judge actually said, let’s take a view of this property.

24:43 So those of us that were involved in the litigation went out to this venue. And, um, as we walked around the venue, and you can’t talk when you’re doing a view, you walked around the venue and you saw Boston cab doors on the ground. You saw a school bus with a tree, with a huge trunk growing right up. And it was, it was a dump that pig pigs were living in, basically. So that’s not a generally accepted farming procedure. So that would not be exempt from the nuisance law. Next slide. So how would you determine whether something is in fact a public health nuisance?

25:29 Because again, it’s your opinion that controls here and it’s your judgment that controls here. But you can look at public health principles to help you make the decision. And I found these in a nuisance handbook that was put out by the Minnesota Department of Public Health. And these are some factors to consider if you wanna determine whether or not the nuisance affects the public. So is this condition contained to one individual or household, or could it spread to neighboring individuals or household? And, and just think back to covid when you’re answering some of or thinking about some of the answers,

26:15 could it spread to the community? Next slide, please. Um, if it does, if the answer is yes, then you wanna think about what the resolution might be. Um, is there a potential health risk here? Would it, could it affect the transmission of the Ds of the, of a disease or could it cause trauma or injury to the public? And this comes out, comes this, this comes into play when you’re looking at swimming pools that don’t have fences around them that could really injure the public, especially a kid. It’s what we call an attractive nuisance. It just, a kid’s gonna wanna go over there and look

27:00 and see what it’s, so these are some of the things that, is there a structural, an unsafe structural issue that happens sometimes when, when we’re looking at condemnation issues? Is something structurally unsound in a way that it could hurt, um, people. Next slide. So if you do determine that a nuisance exists, then you, you issue a cease and disorder and you bring the offending party in to, um, make a plan on how to obey that a nuisance. How, how are you gonna resolve this? What’s the timeline? What are the steps that you’re gonna take? And again, we are about compliance. We’re not about punishment. We don’t wanna punish the person

27:47 who’s creating the nuisance. We just wanna get rid of the nuisance in the best way that we can. Next slide. So Noyce and trades is another thing that, um, boards have the obligation to examine into next slide. And, and the kind of things we’re talking about here are auto body shops. Sometimes it’s, um, car washes that wash industrial trucks that are set up in a multi zoned unit where they’re cleaning the trucks at like two in the morning and it’s waking up neighbors. Um, those are the kinds of things that, that we’re looking at when we’re looking at noise and trades. Boards of health actually have the legal authority

28:33 to either refuse to let that business come into town or to c site conditions. And that’s normally what boards will do. They may, they may limit the hours of operation. Um, and, and things along that line to just because a Noyce and trade can affect the value of someone’s property. And that’s something that boards of health usually aren’t considering because they’re just considering public health. But this statute lets them specifically consider, um, harm to someone’s property. Uh, piggeries you will be happy to know are by definition noise and trades. So you could set some parameters around the piggery, but if they’re five acres or more, they’re farms

29:21 and as farms, they’re not subject to the nuisance law. So you just have to play that. But most piggeries work properly and it’s not an issue, unlike the one in Western Mass that we just looked at. Next slide. So this is just an example. This has to be updated. The last time I updated it was eight years ago. Um, DPH hadn’t updated it for years before that. It’s, it’s ripe for a new, new update. But next slide, Andrew. You will see here though, in this manual of public health laws, you’ll see all of then the current laws that boards of Health are responsible

30:07 for enforcing. And it is quite daunting when you look at them, and I won’t read them all. Next slide ‘cause it just has more on them. The knowledge base that’s required is extensive to say the least, which is one of the reasons that we pushed so hard to get safe. 2.0 a law that would a, a law that was recently signed into Law bill that was signed into law, um, get that enacted because that law will provide free of charge training to health department staff on issues that they have not been able to get adequate training, training for for a long time.

30:52 And if you’re part of a public health excellence collaborative, you’ve seen money come in already, which I think that is. Yeah. Next slide. So inspections, and this is more staff related obviously, but it’s good for board members to know too. You know, there are two types. Either they’re periodic inspections like restaurant inspections or they’re complaint driven, like housing inspections. Um, if you refused access to some place that you’re trying to inspect, you can’t bang the door down. You need to go to court and get an administrative search warrant if you are not permitted to enter. But you know that, but that’s just so that the board knows how that works. Next slide. Enforcement.

31:39 And again, we are about compliance, not about punishment. So we would love to be able to call someone up and say, could you please empty your dumpster? ‘cause it’s full if it’s a restaurant and have them empty it. And then that’s the end of the story. If someone has flavored tobacco products on their shelves, we wanna go in and say, you need to take those down and hope that they take them down. It doesn’t always work that way. And if it doesn’t work that way, here’s some of the options, some of the enforcement options that you can look at. The most powerful one is your ability to suspend, revoke, or refuse to issue local permits. And the reason that is so powerful is that receiving a permit

32:25 to do business in a town is not a right. It’s a privilege. So you don’t automatically get that permit, you have to apply for it, and the board has to grant it. And if the board wants to or needs to, or thinks they need to suspend or revoke it or refuse to issue a new one the next year, they have to give that person who holds that permit their due process rights, which means they have to give them the right to be heard and notice that the, they intend to consider revoking or suspending permit. If all else fails, then you can end up in court. Next slide.

33:10 And I’m just gonna say what this senior judge who retired from the second circuit said that the judicial system is the most expensive machine ever invented for finding out what happened and what to do about it. It’s not only the most expensive, it’s also the most extensive it takes forever, um, to get a judgment out of the court. Have. So you, you wanna try to avoid it if you can. Next slide. So we’re gonna just talk about this for a minute because this has become sort of a hot topic for not only boards of health, but all municipal boards. And this is the open meeting law. And this requires that meetings of public bodies have to be open to the public.

33:56 And I see public here. Um, and the rationale behind that is to ensure transparency in the deliberation of a public body. Um, since Covid, and I don’t know whether this will be extended again, but virtual meetings are permissible as long as there’s adequate alternative remote access. So you are filming this so that the public can can, can see the meeting without coming down. Next, next slide. Um, so you have to look at the words itself. What is a public body? It’s a board of health, clearly any governmental multi-member board. Um, within, for our purposes, a district, a city, a region, or a town.

34:42 If it’s established to serve a public purs purpose, which a board of health zoning board, they all are. Um, interestingly, it excludes the legislature. We’ll just be quiet on silent on that for now. And the municipal staff are not subject to the open meeting law. So this means the town manager, the health director, they can meet and discuss public business. Any staff, any employee can, uh, can talk with another employee about public fit business. It’s only a public body that’s a governmental multi-member board that’s subject to the open meeting law. Next slide. So many have to think, okay, so what’s the meeting? A meeting is a deliberation by the majority of

35:30 that public body with respect to any matter within the body’s jurisdiction. So this is why, um, we have many boards of health now looking at going to a five member board instead of a three member board because it’s harder for a three member board. Well, it’s harder and it takes longer for a three member board to get work done because they can’t talk to each other, um, outside of a public meeting. So with a five member board, you can ask questions, um, of, of, you know, two members could ask each other questions and try to work something out so you’re not spending all the time that a three member board can only ask those questions in an open meeting.

36:16 So for efficiency, you know, the slide boards are all five members and there’s a reason for that. So, um, what isn’t the de deliberation? If one member calls another member to say, you know, what’s on the agenda, I lost my, my packet or whatever. That’s not a deliberation. You’re just scheduling. You’re looking at procedure, you know what’s gonna happen at what time. That’s not deliberating. So that’s not a meeting. Um, it’s just a scheduling issue. Next slide. Um, some other exceptions. Um, if you, and I hope you can come to one of the MEHB conferences, um, our certificate programs, we frequently have whole boards that come and they sit together

37:02 because we provide a really nice breakfast and a really nice lunch and they sit together and talk amongst themselves, talk about the issues we’re training on, but they’re not talking about town business. And that’s the difference. They’re, they can’t have, they can’t conduct a meeting, um, at that conference or that training. Um, they can attend another meeting of another body like the select board. But if the, if, if two of you are attending that select board, you can’t deliberate you can’t discuss the issues. If you want to discuss the issues jointly with another board, all you have to do is post that meeting. And then everyone has knowledge. And again, it’s about transparency.

37:48 So if the public knows the board of health is gonna be meeting with the select board, that’s fine as long as it’s been posted. So everybody knows that that’s taking place. And town meetings are also not subject to the open meeting law. So town meeting members can talk amongst themselves as much as they want and that’s not governed next law. That’s it. Very good. So, I mean, there’s a lot more we could talk about, but I’m not gonna put you all to sleep, but probably I put some of your sleep already. No. But, um, at another time we could talk about other issues. There’s a lot, you know, there’s issues on liability protection and you are so protected from liability and other issues, you know, court issues that are going on or whatever.

38:35 But I’m happy to entertain any questions that you might have. You have the slides And we can go over them and discuss them and Yeah. And leisure too. Absolutely. Can can you um, go ahead. Go ahead. No, I just wanted to know if they could be, um, yeah, we Share the slides though. Oh, sure. There’s, And again, if you have any questions or if staff has any questions, feel free to email me. I have a legal research engine that I can use and if I don’t know the answer, I can find someone else who does. Um, I get a lot of questions from municipal attorneys, which is wonderful. Um, but I’m, we are here to serve, we’re here to help you do your jobs. But

39:21 You also have a private practice, is That No. Or you don’t? I am full-time. You’re Full-time. Okay. As the Executive director in senior staff, Possibly that you were doing this? No, I, I full-time and I have a staff of Attorney. Good work with me. Alright, that’s good to know because I, you’re no longer a one man show. I hate to bother you when I, because I, I thought No, you bother me whenever you want Because I did bother you before, before I went to my charter committee meeting about the Board of Health and the in the Department of Health. Yes, You did. It wasn’t a bother. Maybe We could just go over that. But he, he, uh, Tom, uh, Dr. Tom has a question. Sure. Thank you for the history. Um, I’ve taught public health law for about 20 years. Did you? At a law school. And, uh, my colleagues wrote a big 400, 500 page book.

40:06 I don’t think we ever talked about open range pry in Virginia. So it’s very interesting and it is good conversation. I I agree completely with you that the open meeting law is a challenge for boards of health. Has your agency or any agency sought to judge, get the, a court to deal with the constitutionality of the open meeting law, particularly with the legislature not, uh, being responsible itself for a meeting like that? Yesterday, Helene wrote me a note reminding me, letting me know that our colleague had a new family member

40:52 and asked if we should, um, contribute together, um, to buy some mm-hmm. Donuts for the staff. She said in that note that I asked for permission to write this, my sense is not a lawyer, but someone who pays attention that the the law is abusive. That that is not a violation of the open meeting law to by I know, I, I I understand that. But everyone is so fearful. Right? Right. The, the, the, I wasn’t here. I don’t know, but I suspect the open meeting law was set up

41:38 because the concern was that people were corrupting and making money out of deals that were done in big projects. Exactly. Okay. But, but now there’s a bureaucracy in the, either in the Attorney General’s office, It’s The’s office Okay. In the Attorney General’s office to, to make people like us feel that So afraid. Right. Don’t you think that you, your agency should be out there fighting the open meaning law? For us? That’s, uh, that’s something that I will bring up, uh, on our next certificate programs. We do fight it with the legislature. I mean, if we are subject to this, why aren’t they subject to this?

42:24 Because you are. Right. That’s what it’s about. It’s about deals being made behind closed doors that the public doesn’t know anything about. And I have been involved with the legislature now for about 25 years, and that’s what they do as a matter of course, they make deals behind the public’s back and you don’t know what’s gonna come out. It’s like watching them pass a law is like watching someone make sausage. You don’t wanna know what they’ve done in order to get that law successfully passed. Boards of health and boards of health can’t do that. Town meeting can, but boards of health that are passing local public health laws, everything has to be out in the open.

43:11 And sometimes that’s not the best way to sort of, to, to, to really think about what the impact of this policy proposal might be. Sometimes you need to brainstorm on those things and you can’t, um, if you’re a three member board on your own over coffee, no. And why can’t you? Because of the open meeting law, which is why people are going Challenged. Why I think that’s somebody taking it to court. Um, because I think there, and, and I’m gonna bring this up with the Coalition for Local Public Health and with my staff. Um, and I think one of the reasons is that it’s so ingrained. But but we can talk to the

43:58 Agencies. We’ve always done things, which is the Massachusetts, it’s way number one commandment. Yeah, I understand that. Right. Right. But it doesn’t mean That’s Right. How many officials likes are criticized for our inefficiency. And yet that one law makes us more inefficient than anything else. We, we are, we maybe Helena’s murder, but I don’t think together, the three of us couldn’t figure out how to make a dollar out of being on this board. Right. But yet the, your agency and everyone else stands by and allows the open meeting law to abuse us. Well as public servants. And, and I will just, I’ll just push back a little on this because we’re talking in some cases about apples

44:46 and oranges when it comes to boards of health in Massachusetts. We have some boards of health in Massachusetts, and I’m not gonna name this one specifically, but we have a board, an elected board where two of the members are mother and son, they live together, and then the other member is another member and they’re subject to the open meeting law and they live in the same house. And they live in the same house. Now how, now how does that work? It doesn’t, you know, it doesn’t, um, and we have, nobody’s challenged it that, that the community hasn’t challenged that the community has not challenged that. It’s amazing. The community has not. I’d like to that,

45:33 but you can’t tell me that there aren’t violations of the open meeting law going on in that house. And they have the two votes. It’s a three member board. So they make a decision, they go into a meeting and whatever they want, they get. And their town attorney was in the last meeting I was at with this board. So sometimes there’s a need for an open meeting law if you have boards that aren’t really operating in the best interest of their town. Um, and, and I’m not saying that’s the general, that’s not most boards of health care about their communities and, and work for their communities. Again, I really appreciate your, your frankness on this 20 minutes from now or something. We’re, we’re gonna vote to let out a contract Yeah.

46:19 To our transfer station. Mm-hmm. Now, if that was done in a non-open meeting, that could be a, there should be a violation of Yeah. Of, but our deciding on how we’re gonna promote health in the board in, in Marblehead or what to do in the next meeting is not an open it, it, it, there, there’s just no way there can be, um, violation of any ethics. Any I agree. Morality. And yet, I don’t know when was the open meeting law first passed. And I we’ll look at the, I I will look at the history behind it, what the legislative intent was. I’m sure did It, did it the big news, whatever it was.

47:05 No, I believe it was triggered by Watergate is I believe why it was triggered. I’ll go back, but that’s, I’m pretty sure that’s when states started passing seventies, these laws about seventies transparency. Yeah. Watergate was in the sixties.

47:23 It was way back when. 72. Yeah. Yeah. Late sixties, early seventies. I think that’s what it was. But, but some of the workarounds, and I agree, doctor, you shouldn’t have to work around. But some of the workarounds are that staff can talk. Well, you know, and they can say, my board of health feels this way, or, you know, they, they can, so there are ways that you can make it less obstructive, but I agree it’s obstructive. But, but again, this is Massachusetts that takes pride in leading the way. Matt, Andrew has told us one of the ways that we can communicate with each other as we send an email to him with BCC to the other two and we get away with it.

48:10 That’s absurd. Yeah. Why, why can’t you go that I mean this or you Make a Phone call? Isn’t that what your organization is about? No. It’s, it’s efficient. It’s, um, and we’ve worked on legislation. We work on legislation every legislative session. And maybe this is one that we should, um, consider exploring. Um, you Know, are you saying we are the first board that’s brought this up? The open meeting law? No, no, no, no. Boards bring it up all the time. That’s why a lot of them are going to five members. Yeah. Okay. Not a lot. But that’s why many are considering going to five members. But, but even with five members, that means only two people can talk. That’s better than, than that’s better than, that’s better than No one can, no one.

48:56 Right. But, but if, but if you have five people and you want an open exchange of ideas, you want all five to be on board. The, the the five member with only a diad being allowed to talk to each other could build on the partisanship that we now have in this country. I think we saw a lot of that in our school board. Uh, that in a strike that just ended. I mean, it’s, it, it it’s just amazing that this state that is so forward thinking in so many things allows those kind of things to exist. Because we’ve always done it that way. And, and you make such a valid point. And you make a point that the timing could not be more

49:45 appropriate because of what the auditor is suggesting with the legislature. And how dare the legislature not entertain a lessening of the open meeting law in light of the fact that they’re not even subject to it. So the timing is very, very appropriate. I heard you mention phone calls. That really isn’t, that’s, that’s breaking the open meeting mark. I mean, I don’t make It’s Well, it, it’s not what it’s, it’s, it is. But I, I’m, when I think of the, I think of the public records law too, and that’s more apropos with the public records law. ‘cause an email you put in, that’s a public record. Right. Okay. A phone call isn’t a public record. There’s no record of a phone call. So you’re right.

50:32 It’s breaking the open meeting law. If you’re discussing it as two, you’re not supposed to do that. Right. But it’s not breaking the public records law. So I was conflating the two of them there.

50:46 Right. So just to clarify, because Dr. Zaro and I have a different viewpoint on this Board of Health and, um, department of Health. Could you expand on that for a little Bit? Do you mean whether you are a health department or a board of health with staff? Is that the question? Yes. Okay. Um, The next level, what are the responsibilities and how do we relate, not just we are Your board of health, You we’re board of Health. You provided a document that we submitted to the, uh, charter committee that basically said that we, the Board of Health are what’s determined by state law. We’re allowed to allocate responsibilities.

51:33 Absolute Department of Health. But in the state, in the bylaws of, of the town of Marblehead, there’s not one word about how that allocation takes place. Takes place, and what the responsibilities of the director of public health are. What, what the board, what responsibilities of the board has relative to, to, to the department. So please. Okay. Um, a a a classic or a, a legal health department is a statutory creation. And health departments are the vast majority. All cities have health departments by law. That’s the way a city is set up

52:19 with a statutorily created health department. Whether they have a Board of Health or a commissioner of public health, doesn’t matter. They have statutorily created health departments. Most, I don’t know of a town that has a statutorily created health department. They could, but if they did, they would have to have a charter change in order to do it. Now that doesn’t mean you don’t have a health department, you just don’t have a statutorily created, you have a health department. This is coming from, because you have a staff. Exactly. I mean, who, who works for the Board of Health? So we have obviously the director agents,

53:05 our inspectors public health Nurse. So you have what is in effect a health department. You have the Board of Health, any health department, whether it has a commissioner form or a Board of Health, derives their legal authority from the Board of Health or from the Commissioner of Public Health. I don’t care whether you’re a statutorily created health department or not. But you all have staff and they all, they, they work as you supervise them and they work the way you want them to work. And you have, in most cases, what happens is the Board of Health delegates its authority

53:52 to supervise the staff, which you have. They delegate. You have more authority. Your, you, your authority to the health director. And the health director normally is the person that supervises the rest of the staff. But that director reports back to you. Yes. For anything that happens. We do not review, at least in Marblehead, we do not review the director. He doesn’t Review, but he reports to us. Well, well, you should be, you should be evaluating it. And and this is, we, we all fall down on this, including me with my staff. We should be evaluating the director annually. Um, we’ve never had that at the Board of Health. Well, we have had, so most health departments do not do that. I know. And that’s when they get in trouble

54:40 because we had a case with, oh boy, I’m telling war stories now. We, we had a case with a health director who was also in a union, and he was the worst health director I’ve ever encountered. I mean, he just did some things that were just absolutely uncalled for. He would miss deadlines so that subdivision approvals would go through because the board just didn’t, he didn’t get back to the, to the planning board on the objections that Board of Health members had. So these developments went through, he just did a lot of stuff, cost the town a lot of money. Um, he was eventually let go and he filed a grievance.

55:26 And the grievance went all the way up. And it was a challenge. The, the town ended up winning. But it was a challenge because they had never evaluated him. So there was no record in the file of what he had done. There were a few, but there weren’t a lot of records. And this is what happens when we don’t evaluate our staff. So I know you’ve said at the beginning you don’t give legal advice, but would you recommend Yes. That we document formally the relationship between the Board of Health and the Department of Health and the relationship of oversight with the Board of Health? I mean, anything that makes your job more transparent is

56:11 gonna be welcome by everyone. I don’t think you need to because it’s clear in the law who has the legal authority, unfortunately a lot. Not a lot, but some help directors forget that relationship that they derive their authority from you. But all that legal authority played out that we’re going to make a decision on a contract for the transfer station. Mm-hmm. Neither of us, I don’t think are gonna sign that. Andrew’s gonna sign that If he signs it, he’s signing it as an agent of the Board of Health. He’s not signing it individually as a health director, but The Board of Health is not given him the agency. There’s no document we would do that. Don’t get, this is not a criticism. Oh, I know it is. I know it is.

56:56 I I just know enough to be ugly in danger. No, and, and I, I, I know what you’re saying and, and it should be clear. And what we recommend is every year that at your organization meeting, and it, you know, it, it’s not a coronation, but at your, at your organization meeting, you delegate Andrew as an agent of the Board of Health, and you delegate all of your staff as agents of the Board of Health and do it annually and put it in the minutes. So it’s clear that this is the relationship here. And should that relationship include a statement that we have evaluated the performance of these agents? I would say that should be separate. Um, that should be, you know, the, uh, an evaluation.

57:44 Is it, it’s gonna go into a file. Um, I I and it’s public knowledge. You know, if you, and there are lots of different evaluation tools you can look at, um, for how you would do that. But there are boards that do that annually. There Are some boards that evaluate, but many that don’t. Yes. Okay. Well, we had a very un unfortunate experience in this town with another, another department with an evaluation. The evaluation was strong and the person was let go.

58:18 You know, I I, I had it happen in my own town where a Board of Health member evaluated a long-term health director and she was not happy, but the Board of health member did what she thought was the right thing to do. And this, that’s The opposite thing. Health drugs was still there, this Person high evaluation and was let go.

58:42 You know, it is really hard to, I mean, municipal employees have a property Right. In their job. So that’s why it’s so important that if you are unhappy with someone, that you give them the opportunity to fix whatever it is and that you do this gradual discipline. And if, if you don’t do that and, and they have a property right. To their job. I don’t, I could be fired because somebody just doesn’t like the way my hair looks. Um, I, I could be fighting for anything because I’m privately employed. But public servants, municipal employees,

59:27 government employees aren’t. Right. They have a property. Right. So in order to reprimand, you know, you, you need, you need to have a file.

59:38 Andrew didn’t at the charter committee, was it, uh, bill Cosby ask you whether you or yes. Subcontracts contracts for directors. You can have a contract, But you don’t. But I don’t. Correct. You don’t have, I mean, but How’s, how does he have a property? Right. If he doesn’t have a contract Because he’s a municipal employee.

1:00:01 But the uni So, so let’s, okay, let’s talk about the clerk in your, um, health department. Do you have Clark? Yeah, Clark. Okay. Does the clerk have a contract? No. No. ‘cause But he’s a, he’s a municipal employee. No, But the clerk ist the issue. You, I think we’ve agreed that we’re the board set up by the Massachusetts legislation and we have a responsibility to oversee, provide agency to Andrew who supervises the staff. So the relationship between the board and Andrew’s office is very different than every other staff member. Correct. But what I’m saying is that your clerk has a property interest in the job and in his job. And Andrew has a property interest in his job,

1:00:48 whether there’s a contract involved or not. They’re civil cer, they, they’re municipal employees. I, I used to work in a hospital and we had a term expectation of continued employment. Is that what you mean by a property? Right. You know, no. What I mean by a property right, is that you can’t be fired except for clause.

1:01:13 Whereas I can be fired for anything. The state didn’t fund my budget. I’m let go, you know, I could be fired for, for anything. But someone who has a property right in their job can only be fired for cause that’s the difference.

1:01:32 Who, who’s, who’s gonna decide what’s for cause It depends whether, well, you are gonna, you are gonna hopefully be able to demonstrate that if you’re letting someone go, it’s for cause. But if we have no documentation relationship between him and us, how can he be held accountable if he doesn’t do what we want him to do?

1:01:57 I, I mean, I, I can’t go, I I can’t answer that question. I mean, this is something that you need to work out as to how you want this to, how you want this relationship to work. Um, there should be some, he should have a job description. Yes. And that job de description would control what he should be doing in his job. Well, you know, I’ve worked on other boards in the Min municipality and I’ve worked in boards privately and generally there is, there, there’s a contract and then there’s a job description. And then if somebody is having conversation with their,

1:02:44 say the chairperson of whatever board it is, and the director they work, they will say, well, you know what? We need to work on what on whatever, what on meetings. Yeah. And that, and if, if he, if he falls down that, then that’s something that we can, we don’t, he doesn’t have to be terminated. Of course not. That’s something that he needs to work on. Right. And that’s all. But I think that that’s the way, and that should be document. And that’s how I’ve worked with, um, And that’s how most boards work, Right? See, that’s, we don’t, we’ve never done it. And I’ve been on this board for, So again, you don’t give legal advice, but could, would you rec, we’re going to five,

1:03:31 five people in July. Would it be prudent of us to try to get this legal relationship completed before we have to introduce two completely new people to, um, the board of Health? You know, see, I, I guess from my, I look at it a little bit differently. You know, you have a manual of laws, you’ve hired a health director to enforce those laws on your behalf. And he needs, you know, the director needs the requisite training, um, needs to do the work, needs to report to you the work. I mean, you can memorialize all of that in writing. Um, but I, I, I don’t think the fact

1:04:18 that he doesn’t have a contract kills the relationship between the board and the health Director. Do you actually have a job description? Yeah. Okay. That’s what you can Have we seen that? I I’ve not seen it as a new member, So you have not seen it. But yes, there’s an official job description that was, well, we Wrote it up when he was hired. And that job description should also be reviewed every Yes. So there’s a compensation that committee that, you know, would review that. So the board can make recommendations, you know, or be up, appear before the compensation committee to say we wanna update the co the job description. It gets reviewed by the compensation committee, it gets rescored. Um, and then it can be voted on by the compensation committee.

1:05:03 Okay. Lemme go, Go. Can you talk to your town counsel full Circle. Back to the Opening. Have you talked to your town council about any of this? Recommended me, recommended to me just today

1:05:15 that I sh that we should Yeah, you Should. That’s what the, it was just today. But to go full circle on my first comment about open meeting loans, this has been the best conversation about that issue since I’ve joined the board. And you’re Right. You didn’t want have the meeting was gonna take I know. I I, And we’ve done it in a public meeting publicly. Say that. I’m sorry. And we’ve done it in a public meeting, But, but if our third person had been here, we Well, okay. You would’ve had it too. Yeah. Yeah. He would’ve been here. He just would’ve had another person contributing. But, but I would guess that there will be thoughts as a result of this meeting, that if it weren’t for the open meeting law, we couldn’t talk about and we won’t be able to get to conclusion No.

1:06:02 In a reasonable way without the open meeting law. Exactly. If you’re a three member board, you’ll have to continue these conversations. And We, we, This is about the business. You bore our public and we bore the people and we have other things to do. Ex Exactly. It, It is Unbelievable. And you know what, and you wanted this to be an hour, and it’s an hour and 10 minutes, so I, and I’ve been taken all the time. I’m sorry. No, And I, I apologize. And, and Helene is right. I did not think we needed this session today. I was very strong that we should move to the transfer. This, we’re gonna give a contract to the transfer station that the town has waited for years for. And I thought that the, the me the meeting with you wouldn’t have the same priority, but

1:06:49 I would’ve been happy to stay. It’s Okay. I apologize for saying that in private and in public. Well, that’s quite all right. I Understand. I have a whole extra floor, a bathroom, and two bedrooms if you wanna drive away. No, thank you. Okay. So are you done with me for now? Please, please, please. I will bring back the open meeting law discussion to my colleagues. Thank you so much for Thank You very, very much For listening. You too. Be careful driving home. I will be. And, uh, you certainly, you’re certainly not allowed to stay for the rest of the meeting. No, thank, I’m not allowing you. I said

1:07:30 you can get out. Uh, Yeah, I’m all set. Thanks. Okay. And where are you heading to? Uh, just north of Boston. Oh, okay. It won’t be bad. So, all right. Let’s see. Thank you. The candy.

1:07:50 So we’ve got that. Um, first on, on our agenda after the, after Cheryl is, uh, needing help at the, are you ready for that? I publicly apologize for, um, disagree with, with saying you abused your power by overruling Tommy and me.

1:08:12 Okay. Thank you. I’ll take anything I can get, give it a cup, it a glass if I, not a, a glass of wine, but a candy too. You can pass one together. Okay. I think I’m up next. I’ll be very quick. Community health update. We are working really well on at least two projects. Uh, the mental health task force met last night. We had three, uh, um, presentations of ongoing activities. Uh, the first, um, was, let me get my note.

1:08:51 The second one was from Gina Rabbit, who works part-time for our police department and is proposing a, um, positive community, uh, me remembrance of people we’ve lost in, um, to, uh, to the opioid and substance abuse issues. So it was a great presentation. And there was unanimity about, from the Marblehead task force to move forward. Um, the, did she other Give you names or Sorry, did you, did she give your names? Gina Rabbit? No, I know, I know. Did Gina give you names of losses or just Well, her, the loss she mentioned it was most meaningful

1:09:38 to me was her baby sister. And I, I think she would allow, she think that was okay. Public, because she wants this kind of thing to be done. Mark and I went to a, um, house, a, an open house housing community in, in Beverly. And they had on one of their walls, pictures, really nice pictures of everyone had been lost. It was impossible. Was that the Citizens Inn That you went to? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Un un. And we’re gonna apparently borrow those pictures for some of our, but anyway, it was a great meeting. That was one of the conversations. The second one, um, was, uh, from,

1:10:28 uh, Wendy Kent, who works for, uh, Lynn. And she has three projects going on about the improving the sense of belonging in youth. The question, the issue, one of the issues that’s believed to be a cause of young people mental health is they don’t feel like they belong anywhere. And they are doing some, and I guess Andrew, you’re involved in some of these things. They are doing, uh, an art project and a vocal project together that are really working at that. And the, the committee was very impressed by that as well. What’s The name of the group? I don’t know. Wendy, actually, I guess she worked for either the social services in Lynn. Yeah,

1:11:16 So we work with Girl. Uh, so we work with Girls Inc. Oh, girls Inc. Adelin. Um, and we have a BS a S grant. So it’s the City of Sale, the city of Lynn Swamp, Scott and Marblehead, because I’m active with Girls Inc. Yep. Yeah. They’ve just gotten a new director there. Yep. And, um, And the third report was from me about the next project on the agenda. And that’s what we, uh, the acronym we’re using now is calm, it’s misspelled on the, on the, uh, agenda, but it’s calm, creating a healthier marble marblehead. It’s, it, it’s an, an enterprise that we’d like to do from the Board of Health to develop programs in the community to first assess

1:12:04 this health status of the community and then improve the wellness of, uh, the community as we move forward to set strategic goals to how to measure and how to improve health. So I talked about that for a little bit. I had given that talk at the rot, one of the rotaries last week. I’m gonna give that at talk at another Rotary in January. And I’m going around to talk to anybody who wants to listen about CALM as a way of really, I, I think the, the history that we got today was great, but I hope that Calm will help, uh, project a future for public health in Marblehead. That it’s been much more, it’s been more proactive.

1:12:51 And, and this is not a criticism of anybody, as we just heard, there was no proactivity in the history of public health. It was responsing response to threats. But the new public health, what what we’ve learned from, from the pandemic is public health should be proactive. Public health is what we do as a society to allow people to be healthier. Well, I’ve always believed that we should be proactive. And Andrew knows that because Well, we are together. It’s the first time the three of us had easily agreed on something in six months because Right. Because I, I think that’s the only way to, to anyway Broaden. So, so that is my report from, uh, calm

1:13:40 and from the Mental Health Task Force. So now what on comm, you, you’re gonna make another presentation. Um, are you asking for any of the board’s help? Or do, are you going back to these groups after you make the presentation? ‘cause you’re, you’re looking for funds, is that correct? Well, to be, to be perfectly honest, uh, I don’t know how to raise money like this. I’ve written grants all my life, but that’s a very different process. But the first thing I, I need, I had to do myself, myself is myself. And I got feedback from the Rotary that they thought it was a reasonable presentation, that they wanna hear more when we have time. If we didn’t have the open meeting problem, the four of us could sit down and do strategy about how we go forward.

1:14:29 We are definitely going to ask the Female Humane Society for Money in February. The, the Rotary people knew I was asking for money. That was the last slot. Did you Give a Dollar amount? Sorry? Did you give, you don’t have to tell us. But did you give them a dollar amount? No. Rotary. Yeah. Well, I did. And he said, oh, we don’t give that much. So, so I think I, that strategy, I, I don’t, I, I admit you’ve, you’ve raised more, more Money For more organizations. But again, we ought to have those, we ought to have, be able to sit and talk and plan. But first, the first step for me was to make certain that the way I approached it was legitimate.

1:15:14 And at least the Rotarians said it was Okay. Well, you had a great presentation. Yeah. Well, I thank you. Except the one slide. I don’t care for you, which one that is.

1:15:27 But anyway, in answer to your question, I don’t know how to add. I think, um, Uh, if you don’t ask, you don’t get, if you remember, uh, who was the politician that said, uh, did you vote for me? And the the answer was, no. You didn’t ask me involved for you. So, But the, but So you gotta ask, But nobody, I don’t know how, I don’t. Is it, is it normal to ask in an open meeting like that? I thought that what you would do is after the meeting, if the, if the membership thought it was worthwhile, then the membership would say to the president or the treasury or whatever and say, Hey, uh, this was a good idea. That sounds like it’s vir. It’s, it’s a good idea for Marblehead. Let’s contribute.

1:16:16 And then that’s where we would make the ask. Or how you, you say how you would do it. I I would, I would give them a, I would not, maybe not even give them a figure, but I would say, I’m looking through the community for X amount of dollars. Oh, I did that. And I hope that you would be able to participate at a, at a a, a level that would represent your, your group. And then I would go to some of the p people that I know and see them personally. ‘cause it’s always personal one on one on one on one. How can I be mentored by you without violating company? I’m telling you right now, So that everybody else has to listen to my being taught.

1:17:03 No, because you can teach me about how to take care of it. That’s fine. I’m happy to learn. I’ve got a 10. I Want us both to get the Money. I’ve got a 10 day old baby. Oh my. Tell me how to take care of them. I, you tell me that. And I’ll tell You, I really, really believe that this is good for Marblehead. I believe that the potential for us having a program, a strategy to promote health, will overcome a lot of attention that we not, and the negative feelings we now had in town from the school. Strike this. This is an anecdote to the government doesn’t do anything for us.

1:17:44 And we, we can, there, there are so many exciting things to do promoting health in this town with the just outta mar out of that meeting, the alone, I have a PhD researcher who wants to work for the board to, to help with child and maternal stuff, which of course I’m interested in. And we have a meeting with an entrepreneur at nine o’clock tomorrow morning who wants to know more about how he can help with the board. What’s His pocketbook look like? I have no idea. You gotta Ask him. See, I’m not as Gifted as you are or experienced With all this stuff. I’m just a rookie. I’m old, but I’m a rookie at this. Those are the, I mean, it’s like, you know, St.

1:18:29 Jude or whatever are the Shriners or whatever’s on tv and these kids, you know, talk beautifully and they have so many needs and you watch the 30 seconds the minute and it goes on to the next thing. And you said, oh, isn’t that they, isn’t it awful? And I said, I ought send them some money. You turn the channel and then you forget about them. And that’s what happens to us when we make a presentation. Unless we go back with an envelope and, and drop the envelope off.

1:18:59 Um, okay, let, well, let’s,

1:19:04 let’s set up a separate meeting to post a meeting and, and have a conversation that we can, we can develop, uh, how to go forward. I I, I think we’re not gonna do much between now and January anyway with the holidays. My travel, your travel, those sorts of things. In January, we should have a special meeting that we decide on a strategy. And maybe you know enough about the town that we can say, well, this, this agency probably has the resources to give us $10,000. We need $45,000 to make this work. We have what, $7,000 in the bank from 8,000? Yeah. $8,000 in the bank from previous funds. So basically we need, it would be great to have four agencies to give 10,000 or one agency to give 20

1:19:52 and two to give 10 that. Well, Let’s pie in the sky. I think you should start at five and six and seven. Sorry. I think maybe five and six and 7,000 is more like it. Okay. Then the 15 hundreds and will come in too. It, My sense is that we need an anchor, a flagship, somebody that says, You know what, A a a a, um, a fundraising, these guys, guys, I be, any fundraising of you, you don’t even announce your program until you’ve gotten half your money. So you want $45,000. You don’t even announce until 23. That, that, that’s the way UVA did for its fundraising. I was, I was there then. So you got to, But

1:20:38 So you, you’re gonna start quietly and then you put, then you splash it out on the paper for the rest of it. The smaller money. We can’t move fast because of the open meeting law and everything else. So we’re out there now. We’ve, we’ve made, we’ve made a commitment to do this. It would’ve been wonderful to have 20,000. I really thought Andrew had $20,000 in the bank that he was gonna deliver. Why didn’t ask me for that? Did he ask you for anybody? No. No. You don’t. You don’t ask. You Don’t get, see, we should put that in his job description next Year

1:21:21 Anyway. Anyway. Anyway. But don’t, don’t forget those people that you’ve already seen because you’ve seen them once. They thought it was a good idea. They went home to their families and whatever they did the next day in their jobs. And that was the end of it. Okay. Neither of the co-presidents were at the Rotary. Should I email the co-presidents and say, that’s coffee. Your group was very pro, uh, uh, po positive to, to me. Very kind to me. Would, could we meet and talk about, okay. That’s what I should do. Yeah. Alright. I’ll have that done tomorrow. Yeah. Now let’s move on. Our, okay. Well, I All Very, I learned more from you than even she agreed with me.

1:22:07 I learned more from you here.

1:22:12 So unfortunately, you know, as you know, we’re all aware, um, we did not have a good bid for the transfer station. So we had estimates, um, from our architect and we use an estimating firm. Um, the estimating cost for the project was $1,171,000. Um, and that for pit renovations and new scale house, uh, site work, um, unfortunately we had filed sub bids. So the filed sub bids that we had, uh, roofing and flashing windows painting, plumbing, HVAC, electrical, um, the low bids for the roofing and flashing was $117,000. The low bid for the windows was 35,550.

1:22:57 Uh, the low bid for the painting, uh, was $96,200. The low bid for the plumbing was $95,880. Um, the low bid for the HVAC was $92,600. And the low bid for the electrical, uh, was 83,400. Um, but the low bid for the total project came in at $2,380,800. So that is well over what we had budgeted for the project. Now we need to move forward with certain aspects of the projects. Um, we have, we have a compactor that’s sitting on site, um, and we need to install that. So we have that scheduled to be installed the last week in January, the first week in February, where, you know, the contractor has asked for two weeks.

1:23:45 So the compactor will be down at a time and therefore we will cut off, or we will not be taking commercial trash at that time. All trash that comes into the facility will be, have to be brought to either resco or to other facilities. We will have to work with Waste Management and Republic to deal with that, but we’re, we’re able to do that. Um, so that’s one big piece that we need to move forward with and we are moving forward with. Um, there’s a couple other little pieces that we need to move forward with. We have a control booth that’s gonna be used for that compactor building and a transaction. Hu Um, by installing these two pieces, obviously that will provide a space, a safe space for, for the employees to operate that new compactor. Um, that’s gonna be a heated and the ac small building.

1:24:32 Um, it’s a six by six building. It’s a prefab building that’s built offsite and brought in. Um, the transaction hunt is gonna be in the res in the residential, uh, recycling area and trash area. This will allow us to open up the Green Street entrance and change the flow of traffic over to what the proposed, uh, traffic flow should be. Uh, that will give us separation between the residence and the commercial operations up front. Um, and again, uh, the, the estimated cost when we originally had gone out to look at some of the stuff was $104,000, uh, for those two buildings. Um, we are working with a company called Guardian. I went out and saw, uh, three quotes for a six by six controlled building for the, the compactor.

1:25:19 And a six by eight, again, heat ac uh, transaction hut. Uh, the total cost for these two buildings, uh, will be $27,469 and 39 cents. Um, so the board needs to make a motion to move forward with that. Um, these should be built and we’re hoping to have them on site in about six to eight weeks time. Who, who’s providing? Uh, so it’s guard guardian booth is the winning, uh, quote for that. And are they local? Uh, they’re out of Pennsylvania. No, they’re not local. So are you looking for a motion then? Yes, I need a motion or approval to go with Guardian booth, uh, for the two thou, uh, for the total of $27,469 and 37 cents, uh, for the purchase of

1:26:06 a control booth and a transaction. Would You just like to, there’s no Costco or Sheds R us type Thing. You have to go through public procurement process at all. Yeah, and again, you know, we, we wanna make sure that these are gonna last a long time. Um, and again, we need to make sure that they had heat ac um, there’s a couple other requirements know they need to be anchored to the ground. Um, and the building department needs to be, okay, So these are two one, but 27,000? Yes. Yep. It’s a six by six and a six by eight. Yep. Can you stand up in it? Yes. Yep. So what’s the height? Uh, the height is a normal, um, it’s, it’s a seven by seven foot roof. Oh. Um, but yeah, it’s a, it’s a normal operating, um,

1:26:52 you know, it kind of looks like a security shack. Alright. Um, there’s some pictures like this. Oh, that looks nice. Yeah. So does somebody have to stay in it the whole day or they walk it Going? No, they walk around. It’s, it’s really to, for, for shelter. Okay. Yep. All right. So would you like to make the motion? So move, okay. So move to endorse. Yep. Uh, the proposal that, uh, the director has, has offered. All right. And I second that. And all in favor, it’s unanimous. Yep. So again, you know, we will be working, we have a sign package through our architects. Uh, we’ll be looking at that sign package and purchasing the signs required for the entrance of the building and all the other signage that will use for flow of traffic. Um, we are installing that comp, that new compactor,

1:27:38 it’s at a new grade. We need to do a little bit of site work down below. Uh, we will be purchasing some Jersey barriers as far as that. Um, that’s just kind of general cost. And those Jersey barriers get used as part as, as part of the operations anyways. So we’ll use those jersey barriers on a temporary basis and then implement them into the areas that we need those Jersey barriers for operations. Um, but again, we’re trying to get some of this work done, trying to continue this project forward. Um, I have an opportunity to sit down with one of the general contractors and take a look at where we kind of disagreed with our estimate versus what they think the true costs are gonna be. Uh, we would continue after that meeting. Uh, we could continue to look at things that we could potentially get done. Um, we could be looking at doing the roof and the siding next.

1:28:24 We can be looking at doing the site work. Um, and then at some point in January we’ll have a larger discussion about, you know, does the, does the board feel it’s important to go back to the town and ask for a larger sum of money? I really need to sit down with that general contractor to see where they were, how they saw the projects versus how we saw it and where we were with our estimate. Before. I could say to the board, I recommend that you go back and take a, and ask for more additional funds With this, with this company. Uh, it would just be like saying, you know, project for the whole project. So the, you know, this piece of the project came at at $2.4 million. Um, you know, we only have $1.65 million and so we would need some additional funds. Yep.

1:29:10 So we just spent, what, a hundred or so? No, You just spent 27 plus 27 and then the compactor and stuff like that. So we’ve already purchased the compactor. I’d have to take a look at the, the rest of the install for that. So the purchase of the contractor is out of the compactor is out of the 1.6. Nope, We’ve already purchased that before. There’s a little bit left to be for the install of that. So at the end of today with everything you’ve, we have 1.5 million in a bank. Yep. And we would need 800,000 to meet that. Yeah. 2.4 900,000. Yep. But again, we need to take a look at where the contractor is, understand what his true numbers are, and see where our differences are.

1:29:55 Are we not looking at the project correctly? Is a contractor not looking at the project correctly? Are those things that we can do? We call those value engineering, um, by separating little pieces out to get better numbers, But every day prices are going up. So yeah, prices do come up, but they also have come down. So certain prices have come down from covid. But yes, as we continue on, prices do, do continue to rise at certain, certain things. So yeah, we, we do have to be mindful of that. ‘cause we just started with the high school after two years, it was a big increase. Yeah. And I don’t know exactly what the work at the high school was. So I can, I can’t really comment on that As the roof. Right. Roof and HVAC. Yeah. Which seems strange. 20-year-old building.

1:30:41 Why are we having, well, they were put in the H-V-A-C-I was on the school committee then, and they had the, the, the, um, duct work in there. But they were very proud that they sent money back to the state and didn’t do the, don’t, uh, get me stud. I’m glad the press isn’t here right now, But yeah, we, we need to, you know, try to keep this moving as much as possible. Obviously we have concerns about our compactor. We’ve a brand new compactor on site. And then,

1:31:14 Well, thank you for doing all this work and coming up with some things that, uh, And, and I’ll talk about the, you know, we are gonna go into fees with that transaction hunt. Uh, we will be moving to, uh, LPR cameras. So license plate leader cameras. We want our customers to be able to go online, purchase these facility stickers. It will register their car. We also want them to be able to purchase items that they’re gonna be disposing of. So if they’re gonna drop off an AC unit or if they’re gonna do some other operations like that, or even buy a recycling toter, we want them to be able to do that. So we are in the process. Um, the board has approved, uh, the purchase of the, it’s called Town Hall 24 7. We are moving forward with that.

1:31:59 They’re trying to install all this. It needs parcel data to have that up and running. Uh, we’re working as quickly as possible to get that up and running for the new year. Do you wanna go over the fees now? Yeah, we will roll right into that, but I just wanted to make sure that the board, those two things go together. Yeah. Uh, fees. So let me provide you with all the information fees.

1:32:26 Does the audience have copies?

1:32:45 Um, so the big fees that we’re always looking at is obviously, so we call it, uh, yes. Sorry. The municipal solid waste. So that’s commercial waste that’s disposed at the facility. Um, our current cost is $280 a ton. Um, and we’re recommending that we go up to three 20 again, uh, becoming, starting January 1st. We are no longer gonna be taking cash up at the transfer station. Everything’s gonna be rolling over to credit or to check. Um, and what we want to do with this is that we don’t, we have to absorb the, the fee associated with the credit card. So we’re gonna incorporate that into the fee, the, the cost of the fee itself, rather than charging that, you know, the 4% every time there’s a TRA transaction, uh,

1:33:31 our current fee is 2,280. Yeah. So the current fee for a tunnel waste for MSW is 200, $280 a ton. Your final page of that has all these. Yeah. So your final page has the recommendations. It has a recommendation current. So the, the front of it is all that. The, um, the data that we gather at all the different, you know, from the towns Yeah. From different towns and stuff like that. So yeah, if you go to that last page, you’ll see the current fee and the recommendation. Um, so yes, we’re recommending that you go from two 80 to three 20. Um, that is 16 cents a pound. We’re currently at 14 cents a pound, um, for CRTs. Um, so that’s monitors, that’s a catheter tube.

1:34:19 That’s an old T tube. That was the old definition from that. Um, we’re currently at 25 and we’re recommending you go up to 35 5. Um, currently we do not charge for appliances coming in. Most municipalities do charge for that. Um, most of that material gets, you know, goes to recycling. It usually is a metal item, but there is work that has to be done for that employee moving that piece of equipment around. There’s also potentially could be trucking fees associated with that. So we need to try to make sure that we capture, you know, costs. Um, and as far as like stickers and all that, we’re always looking, looking at costs, what money we’re bringing in and what burden we have in the town. And so we, we look at it as three different buckets.

1:35:04 And we’re looking at views for the waste department. We’re looking at curbside collection, we’re looking at transfer station, and we’re looking at commercial. Those are the three buckets that we’re talking about. Um, so going down that list, so you have appliances, non Freon, and then Freon. So that would be acs, refrigerators, any of that stuff. Um, currently it’s $25 for an appliance with Freon. We’re recommending that you go up to 35. Um, for metal, currently for residents, there’s no cost to dispose of metal, obviously. We just talked about appliances that may come in. Um, but since we are separating the two operations, commercial will be up front. The backside will really just be for residents. We will have businesses in town that want to be able

1:35:53 to bring the recycling to us. There is a cost associated with that. We are recommending that a commercial sticker for use of that recycling area, that’s not use of the, the yard waste area. Um, the current cost for that is $280 that we go up to. $320. Yep. Uh, yeah. Well that’s the 320 is just access for a commercial entity for Marblehead. Oh. To access the recycling area. So if they wanted to recycle their paper, they co-mingle any of that stuff. They could be able to do that. They’re just not allowed to bring, uh, trash or yard lease. Uh, continuing down, we’re looking at tires. Um, currently we charge anywhere between $10

1:36:38 for a regular automotive ti tire up to $20 for a larger truck tire. Um, if it’s on a room, there’s an additional $10. We’re looking to go from the 10 to 15 and the 20 to 25. Again, we’re essentially keeping the costs the same, but we need to deal with that fee now that we’re gonna be cashless. So we’re recommending that you go over to that. Um, mattresses in box springs, currently we’re 35 and 70. Uh, 35 and 75. We’re just recommending that we go up to 35 and 80. So the 35 will still be for the residents. On the $80 is for anybody from or commercial bringing mattresses in. Um, as a commercial entity or outside of town, you don’t Wanna do 40 and 80.

1:37:24 I’m trying to keep the mattresses down for residents at as a standard cost as possible. I don’t want it to be burden somewhere. They’re gonna start to end up on the street and stuff like that. But what are the other towns doing? They’re pretty close to 35. Can I just ask, at the beginning of the year, we divided into vice chairs and Tommy is the vice chair. Have you gone over all these things with Chloe? Yes. Okay. Thank you. Yep. I’d like to put a hold on the mattress for 40. Okay. Um, yard waste for landscapers. Um, currently the sticker price for per landscaping truck is $1,750. We’re recommending that you go up to $2,400 just to dispose of a hundred yard trailer of yard waste currently is $800.

1:38:11 So we’re getting charged four $8 a yard. Uh, so obviously if it’s a hundred yard trailer, we have, you know, we’re not composting on site to the extent where that we’re returning soil to the, you know, community in that sense, or selling the soil. We are essentially trucking everything out. So there’s a, there’s a large cost to all the trucking. Um, and so that would deal with the amount of material that’s bring it brought in by the landscapers. Um, the residential sticker. Um, so we are currently at $80 and $25. So $80 for the first $25 for each additional sticker for that household. Again, um, veterans are free. That will continue. Um, we’re recommending that we go to 1 0 5 and 35. Um, I did talk to Tom about this, you know,

1:38:58 and he was okay with that. You know, a hundred dollars, totally reasonable. Obviously the 105 covers the cost of the service fee if you’re using the credit card. Well, were you a hundred dollars before? No. Or 80. Oh, that’s right. 80. Okay. And, and so why It’s still below what we’d see locally, what, 205? Mm-hmm. Yeah, many, many municipalities are up to the 150 range per vehicle. They don’t have a second reduced cost.

1:39:31 That’s probably what we should go to. Um, again, we talked about the commercial recycling sticker. That’s for a business in town that wants to use access to recycling. Uh, that would be the two 80 to the three 20. Um, brush prices we’re just going up by $5 to capture, uh, the increase where that transaction fee. So 40 to 45. Is that keeping with the others? Uh, other communities, Most communities don’t really have an outside, they’re not taking outside material from like contractors or people that are bringing loads of brush.

1:40:07 Um, so 40 to 45, 80 to 80 to 5, 1 20 to 1 25. Um, batteries. These are large car batteries. Marine batteries, 10 to 15. Um, porcelain fixtures, again, these are your toilets, your sinks, large porcelain fixtures. Um, 10 to 15. Um, and then recycling toters, we sell a 35 and a 75 gallon recycling toter. Um, we essentially sell them at cost. Um, that this is really kinda keeping them at cost. Um, we currently sell them for $65 and $75 then would go up to 70 and $80. Um, we’re not gonna talk about the health department fees at this time. We’re already into permitting for the new year. We’ve already collected all the, the money. We will doing that at a later time. We’re gonna do that before the renewal

1:40:53 of the tobacco permits, um, to, but, so we’ll be doing that another night. So you’ll be putting that on the agenda for January? Not for January, but later on, you know, March, something like that. But, but you’ll have to go over and then you’ll have to post that meeting. No. So what we do is that Yeah, we’ll, we’ll post that. We’ll be due with fees for the health department. Um, and then having a meeting like this where we discuss the fees for the health department. Um, but the, the tobacco fee goes up or that gets renewed in April. So that’s when I, you know, I’d wanna do it before that time. Right. But you would do the, would you would do the, um, body, uh, at the same time and then you have to the hearing? Uh, we can, we, you know, I So you’re talking about regulations? Yeah. Um, so there’s two, when you do It to, when you do this together, the,

1:41:38 the fees and the rigs. So for the tobacco for, you can definitely do it for together if you would like to. It kind of makes sense. Yep. We often talk about fees when we’re talking about regulations. And so that means if you brought it up in March, you then have to advertise for April. So if I’m, if we’re gonna talk about it in March, I just have to advertise two weeks before the meeting. Okay. So it’d be all at one meeting, not then to Yeah. Whatever the board would like for the, for the tobacco. And, uh, well, ‘cause we’re talking about body art here. I, you know, you’ve always seen the first cop, you know, you have the dr the draft of that, those two sets of regulations. Yeah. You know, the board needs time to take a look at that. Ask questions. Well, they just have to take the time. Once they take the time they’ll have it. Yeah. But, so we have the two regulations, the tobacco in the,

1:42:27 We’re not gonna have that person come to talk for now about tobacco regulations. No, we are not. Yeah. But can we finish the fees first before we talk about Regulations? No, I wanted to, yeah, I suggested that when we talked, you and I, that I was going to ask them to read these and I thought maybe we would get it in on the January meeting. But we, if March is better for you, then that’s good.

1:42:54 Okay.

1:42:57 Questions? No, just to make sure that we ask the people to read their documents. Yeah. Cool. Questions about the fees? Yeah. Don’t forget. Oh, yeah. Oh, go ahead. I did not know what a transfer station was 18 months ago, so I can’t participate very much in this. No. And, and again, the idea, you know, we understand that we’re going up on re residential stickers. You know, we, we will really take a hard look at the true costs of what it’s, you know, what it truly costs for. Somebody could come in and use that facility. Um, we want that to be covered by that sticker costs. Um, and those, so if there’s, you know, when we look at all the costs and stuff like that and there’s actual, we’re able to go down, we might suggest that we’re able to come down a little bit.

1:43:44 The heart, the concern that we have is that obviously the trucking costs associated with yard waste is pretty high. Um, we do see a lot of recycling. Um, you know, and, and costs with recycling are gonna continue to go up. Cost with trash will continue to go up, but we’ll make sure that we kind of keep it in that, those three different buckets. So curbside collection, transfer station, and then commercial pieces to it. Okay. The one that I, I highlighted was that the mattress is at 35 not going up. Yep. It’s the only thing you’re not going up on. And I think going up to $5 40 and 80 has a good range to it. And I think we should go up, uh, on top of it. Um, if, if you look at it again in a year or two and,

1:44:29 and you go up people, That’s fine. I mean, this will cover the cost and then, and cover the fee of the, the credit card. So, you know, obviously we’re not gonna be passing the credit card fee on the customer that is locked into these Prices. So you can go up to 40. Yeah, I can go up to 40. I, it’s the only one that, yeah, I think it that I, um, and the same, I was looking at the 105 of the residential sticker, because again, you’re going up more than others, but I was, I was listening to Marty, he said, we’re lower than other places. You know, why aren’t we going just to a hundred? And that’s Because we’re, we’re going, we’re trying to get to a hundred. And then I’m trying to cover my fees. So at 4%, you know, at at a hundred dollars, your fee should be, you know, $104.

1:45:14 So we’re round rounding up to the 105. Okay. And and you’re gonna set me satisfied with that number for several years. Yep. Because I talked to Andrew when I met with him last week. I said, you know, I just, I know from other things where I’ve raised fees and you don’t want people to say, you know, we need to raise fees in two more years. Then people said, well, you just raised them two years ago. If we do it a little bit more now, then people, we won’t have to go back so fast. So, um, if you think that we can stick with this 105 for two to three years, Yeah. We can stick with it for two to three years. And that’s, I don’t want you to feel that you have to go back and if, if, when, if we’re, Marty said we’re lower than, I’ll have to look at this

1:46:02 longer than, uh, you have any, uh, you don’t have it on these front list, do you? Yep. All the stickers are the bottom of all of each of the towns. If there’s sticker prices available there listed at the bottom of each town. Oh, oh. It’s not, it’s not. So Constituent residential sticker, $105 sub brief. Here it is. Yeah. Yeah. $180. Um, Wayland $185 Amherst $125, um, Harwich $160 And SX is hundred 50. But just to note, these are also per vehicle, not like ours where it’s first and second vehicle. These are, every vehicle pays that amount, Which is, I don’t have the cost. Yeah. So we are in keeping with situate

1:46:47 and all the others are 180, 180 5, 1 25. That’s correct. 60. Yep.

1:46:56 And that’s with the beach too, right? That is with the beach too. And these don’t have, Nope. Is there a question? No. Would, would anybody willing to go to 125 on that? What Would you Nope. You wouldn’t even hear a motion on that. You, you got It’s up to the board, but I not, that’s not my recommendation.

1:47:20 Okay. I agree With that. You have a question. People who do not use the transfer station but use the beach. So you’re basically asking them to pay $105 to use the Beach Beach. So There’s always, so there’s five bathing beaches in the community. Yeah. Only one requires a parking permit. Still wouldn’t be $105 to go dead If you chose the parking in that parking lot. But where else could you park? Yeah. Yep. So you could park, there’s parking all, there’s parking all over the neighborhoods. There’s different areas that you could park To. We can’t park on the other side Bike there. You can’t park on the right side. You can walk there unless you’re just eating lunch. Yep. Now I’m sure people sneak onto the beach, which I mean, I don’t approve of that, but, um,

1:48:07 alright, so you’re saying the 105 is more than enough. I as a, as, as a, as a resident, I may speak you’re a resident Yes. User of, of the transfer station. Uh, it’s great. I’m just thinking about, for example, my next door neighbor who has a landscaping service who never goes there but goes to the beach. He, if he wants to go to Devereux Beach, he has to pay $105 For the year, For the year, even though he makes no use of the transfer station. That’s all I’m trying to say. Right. So I thought when we first moved to people, certainly in my neighborhood Right. That use landscaping services and never go to the transfer station. That’s all I’m Trying to say. I you able to be, and I’m raising my hand. Count me in.

1:48:55 I I’m just, all I’m saying is that I’m just bringing it up for all I know. This is the wrong time. Just bring it up. It’s Not the, it’s not the, it’s the wrong time because it’s not, not the public comment, but it, we’re going to go past this and, and I’m questioning whether it should be a little bit, but I Thought when we first talked about this, park and Recs would have an option to have a different entry fee to their beach. So Park and Rec, I think you can pay a daily fee if you want to not buy a sticker, you can go there and pay for a parking pass for the day. For like $25 For the day. Yeah. For the day. Yeah. Yes. And that’s generally capturing out of town, uh, individuals. So this is a very, So there’s gonna be something though for a Marblehead resident who wants to use Devereux Beach

1:49:43 that’s not paying tourist rates.

1:49:48 If we do, we just have to ask Parks and Rec to try to work something out. So the So Town meeting put the two stickers together. So there used to be a Separately. Yeah. So he started At this table. Okay. But town meeting put the two stickers together. They used to buy a sticker to go to the beach and a sticker for the transfer station. At one point it was put together by town meeting. And the only way it can get separated at this point is to have town meeting separate the two. Um, obviously the Board of Health could recommend that they get separated. They could write the article on, bring it to town meeting, uh, or Park and Rec or Park and Rec could come up with a separate fee for residents of Marblehead to use the beach. But we’d have to, to approach them and discuss that

1:50:34 As well. In fact, you wouldn’t lower this fee anyhow because we’re being told that it’s a great, a great price for using the transfer station. At, at some point you have to cover your costs of the disposal of what the person’s throwing away. Yeah. If they’re using the transfer station. Yeah. But I’m only worried about beach people. And then the questionnaire, I, I, I mean, so We have five public bathing beaches in. Do we agree that one of us should approach Park and Rex to ask them to try to It’s probably too late for town meeting this year, isn’t It? No. No. So articles are due in January, like the last January 20th Are coming up? I guess so. Um, I’m, I’m willing to volunteer to do that. I mean, that just seems fair. No,

1:51:22 I think that what they, what they determined at the time was that when you got a facility sticker, it was a bonus to get the beach thrown in with it.

1:51:33 That was, that was the, can I make Mary’s comment real quick? Sure. Because My only question would be the other side of that, which is if you only got a sticker for the beach, I don’t have a separate sticker to issue you. That would have to be done by the park. Right. How, how would I differentiate who paid for the beach sticker versus transfer Station? No. Different But you, that, that would’ve to go to the town meeting, right? Currently exists. Yeah. It does not currently Exist. No, but no, if you had two separate stickers, so go talk to Jamie. Ask it. Go talk to him, Jamie at the Crack and Rec, Whatever it is. I’m on one. Yeah. I mean, we reach out, we’re part of the same town, right? Yeah. We should reach out. We’re making a change. The change has consequences for them. We ought to let them know.

1:52:20 Maybe, maybe they get, and with last year’s sticker issue during the transition year, that’s just, that’s just, Yeah. ‘cause I, I, I just think that, um, There are concerns that we are siloed. Yep. So let’s break the silo between us and Park Rex about this issue. And then, and they may ex explain it to you, right? Yeah. Do you, uh, and you may have to go before the, uh, yeah, We go and meet with the board. The board of Health? No, the board of, I mean the, Uh, partner Board, they meet every other week. So you can see them. Oh, I, Yeah, I know. I, I, I, we all, we don’t all have to go. He No, You just sit. Yeah. I represent. Yep. Oh, Make me an agent. Right. Just, just like you don’t to Andrew,

1:53:07 but I’ll make me an agent. Okay. Yeah, go ahead. Yeah, I would go in and ask Jamie, isn’t wouldn’t that be the right person? Or Peter, which is Peter or Jamie. You Talk to both of ‘em, but then you, you really want to go before the board and talk. I’ll say, and I’d like to be on the next board meeting. Yep. Okay. So can we put a hold on the facility stick or you just No, because my facility stickers start to go on sale next week. Oh, all right. So you’re gonna do the facility sticker? Yeah. But, but these people are all gonna be able to go to the beach. I, no, I can’t promise anything. Oh, so right now it can be a facility sticker and we can change above the Beach. No, Right now it’s a two peak. Yeah, It’s a two for one. This is the cost of

1:53:53 This. So this is only this year. Yeah. Okay.

1:54:01 So we won’t touch the price on it. And you’ll, uh, So you’re gonna leave the trans, the facility sticker the same. Are you gonna leave the facility sticker the same As you recommend it or the same? We have it this year. No, I’m, I’m recommending the $105. Yeah. I thought everybody agreed that was a good deal. It’s a good deal. That’s why I thought it would be 125 just for the dumping. You use it all the time. So what would you say about 1 25?

1:54:31 I don’t think we should charge a fee just because somebody else charges the fee. It’s like the mattress fee. How many mattresses you guys get rid of a year? That’s more, That’s a loaded Talking a thousand, 20,000, $57,000 worth of mattresses. Yeah. Which, which is a lot. Yeah. And you know, we got no problem. Yeah, Totally. And we, Most people don’t realize, fortunate we are to have the dump. Yeah. I just, We just broke even on the mattresses this year. No, that’s why we’re going and put another five those. But a question, how come you guys are the ones that get the set defeat? Doesn’t the Park and Rec get involved in that or I’m just curious. No, It’s always been the Board of Health. ‘cause really the, Is that what it was set up in town meet? I really Don’t because the p the beach was a bonus.

1:55:20 Okay. I’ll have to look and see if town meet and instead Beach with the bones. But I was just curious. I’m not So It’s all the fee’s always been set By the, and it goes to general fund anyways. Correct. You get No, So we’re, we’re generating between 405 and $429,000. Either. Most cities and towns you can’t. I own property and Lynn, but I can’t go to Lin Transfer Station. Give rid stuff. Yeah. You gonna, I bring my tax bills and stuff. So it just, And we do allow any resident that has a tax bill, um, to buy a facility store. Yeah, no, it’s, I’ve get no complaints. You guys pretty fair. I mean, I’m happy all the time, but you’re fair. But yeah, I don’t wanna Brag to Georgetown. Yeah, We, we really try to look, you know, again, we, we will really look at, you know, the costs

1:56:06 of the facility sticker, um, and look at the, the costs associated with a person using that facility. Um, and we’re not trying to like make a lot of money. We’re just trying to cover costs there. You’re charging a higher fee for the stickers for people from out of town? No. So when, when I, for the, for the transfer station sticker, I don’t know how many times a resident’s gonna go in there and I don’t, I’m we’re estimating that they’re gonna bring a quarter of, you know, a third of a ton at most. But if they’re bringing recycling, there’s a cost to recycling too. Um, the cost to dispose of a, a ton of recycling right now is anywhere between 90 and $120 that come.

1:56:52 So I have to figure that in. I have to figure in the cost of how much they’re bringing in for yard waste, um, to, to make sure that that gets tracked out appropriately. So, but I as a taxpayer don’t get too excited about me paying all my property tax bills for properties that I have. And I’m paying the same rate as somebody coming from swamps Good. Or Lynn to get rid of all their crap. Oh, as far as like the commercial side? Yeah. Commercial, Yeah. Residents. Yeah. Yeah. The residents from out town aren’t really supposed to come in unless they go as a commercial thing. I understand that. Yeah. And, and then something that we can take a look at in the future. Um, you know, I don’t have a commercial business in town where I need to throw away commercial. Now if I had to throw away, if I had to fund my house

1:57:39 and I had to throw away material, yeah. I’m subject to that cost too. Again, we’re trying to pass on the costs, you know, there’s the, the quote, you know, $127 a ton to get rid of trash. You know, that covers wasteman agency and the trucking from the facility. But then I need to cover all the costs of the employees equip. Yep. And the repairs, because it always breaks down always soon. Yes, Exactly. Okay, I wanna get back to this for one second. I’m gonna ask my colleague, um, uh, uh, uh, as far as this, um, fee, the 105, I got the wrong page. It’s the last page, The last thing. Um, so bury is, is 180.

1:58:28 I don’t compare that down to us. Situs 105. That’s what we are. Wayland. I don’t compare to us as 180 5, but Amherst is 1 25. I think that that compares to our community. And I, I don’t think that we need to be the lowest and we won’t have to think about it for a long time. I would recommend 1 25 instead of 1 0 5.

1:58:53 And so between you and me, do you wanna just keep it what Andrew’s recommended at 1 0 5, we go to 1 25. So this is where Tom and I talked about the, the price. And he, you know, he, he thought 105, you know, he was rented a hundred. He thought that was reasonable. Yeah, that’s my concern. Uh, I, Tom and I made an agreement a long time ago. It would, that he would, he would deal most through the transfer station. I would deal most, What would I do? Sorry? What Would I do? Well, You’re in the middle. I mean you uh, I don’t know which way to go. Yeah. I just, all things being equal, I think your logic raise it once, keep it up And be done With and be done with. It makes sense. And to me it was still, because there’s nothing that I’ve learned in 18 months

1:59:40 that says anything about recycling has gone down. Right. So raising it now, taking the heat and getting over with, And I didn’t think we heard, heard a lot of groaning up there, but I Why don’t you

1:59:58 ask John that You’ve got a recommendation of the 1 25 and that it Seems you can’t ask Tom so, Well you already did ask him. Correct. But like, so if I ask him again, In other words, we shouldn’t have this discussion ‘cause we’re not part of the discussion. He’s the only one. Right. But so if we have, so if you’re gonna push this back to the second week in January, January, so I’m not selling any stickers till the second week in January, As opposed to what date? Selling ‘em next week, December 16th. Alright, so If I don’t have a fee associated with It, why did only one person make the decision? Well, here it is at the fourth. So, so then make the decision. I make, I make a recommendation. We go to 1 25. ‘cause then we won’t have to worry about it later on. And I’m here that it’s a good deal.

2:00:44 I’m okay with that. Thank you. And then with the forties or the other and everything else looks great.

2:00:52 Thank you. Can you tell em the rationale? Yeah. It wasn’t the, you Guys could tell, tell you guys Me, I, at our next meeting. Yeah. Alright. Well it’ll be all done by then. Yes. Okay. Um, so you wanna go over the, the, the fares So you, you know, you can make those two corrections. So it’s gonna go up to 1 25 And the, and the 40. And The 40. And so then you can make that motion or Yep. Second. And so All in favor if your unanim, See, this is why I didn’t think we wanted the other visitor tonight. They did. Okay. Like, I knew we were gonna be doing this. Yeah. Well, but you were right to bring her.

2:01:37 So I already admitted. Admitted that. Yeah. If, if she had come at six 30, it would, it would’ve worked. It would’ve been the best. Correct. All right. So what’s at nine 30? Let’s just, just tell us the dates. Uh, so wellness failure, we’ve received an applications, we’ll continue to receive applications for another week at least. Uh, and that’s January 18th. Um, our substance abuse programming, uh, is we have a date of March 12th. Uh, this when we’ll have, um, guest speakers, community members speaking about substance abuse. Uh, this is what Tom McMahon has been talking about for a very long time. Uh, so we’re very excited to have a date, uh, That date firm. I mean, because that date is firm because you didn’t see if It’s more about the people speaking and the other people that are associated

2:02:23 with it. But yeah, those, those Dates I understand, but did they have options or just I only had a few options, a date and that we put those out to the people that would be speaking. You gave the options to the people that were speaking? Yeah. Yes, because we knew a long time ago I was gonna be outta town out of the country, so, all right. I’m lucky I don’t have to hear what they have to say this time. Well, I, I just feel bad that I’m not gonna be supportive there when it’s all, It does conflict a little bit with what we heard last night at the task force, because it’s kind of, it’s not redundant, but it overlaps a great deal with what, uh, we heard about the memorial service that, um,

2:03:11 Oh, Gina? Yeah. So I Honestly, the board can discuss that again in January. I mean, that’s two months before that date and the board can decide how they wanna proceed With that. Mark has an appointment with Tom Okay. On Friday, whether Yep. Tom will be able to make it or not, I don’t know, but, but he, he’s gonna bring that up. Okay. So we’ll continue to discuss that. But You also rep stated that the wellness fair, that the date is December 12th, but you’re putting out an Extension. No, January 18th is The date for wellness. No, no. For the, uh, for, to receive, uh, applications to, to be there. Yeah. So, uh, you know, again, there’s no fee associated. We wanna make sure that we have a, a robust number of,

2:03:58 um, people there. Um, and, and so yeah, I, I think there’s another seven or eight applications that are slowly coming in. So you have a December 12th date? Have we extended that date till, Yeah, I’ll extend it another week, Which is like 17th or whatever it was. Uh, it’s going 12th. The 19th would be a week. Yeah. So the 19th. The 19th. Okay. So let’s, let’s make that as a statement here. That’ll be extended. ‘cause you do wanna get as many people. Yep. Seeing it. Okay. Um, the bills. Uh, so yeah, I just said I’d read over Tom’s list of bills, uh, they had put together. So thank you for your patience staying with us this long. Happy Holidays. Happy holidays. Um, a one Exterminators $340, um,

2:04:45 agri Source 1440, uh, at T Mobility, internet access 80, um, black Earth Compost, 1000 1249 88. Um, dynamic Waste 4 65 38. Haley Ward, 1400 Mar Head Counseling Center, $6,005. Marvel Head, water and Sewer 115. Um, meat and, uh, me, Tom and the Costa 1050. Um, Pete’s Tire Barn, 9 72 58 Republic Services, 82,000 3 0 5 RMG Enterprises. That is the recycling of the CRTs, the TV monitors, laptops, et cetera. $646 utech, this is mattress recycling.

2:05:32 Um, $4,824. Um, Verizon, internet access for the transfer station, $169. Walnut Printing and Forms $5,235. Um, WB Mason, $169

2:05:49 Five. So now the Director’s report you’ve done, Uh, yeah, so just want, you know, quick again, we talked about the software update with the to town hall 24 7. That will be our new software. The idea is to try to get this up and running. You can actually purchase your sticker through that. Um, we will be having a form, um, because the LPR cameras aren’t up and running currently. We’re trying to capture all that information. If our two systems don’t come together, well, there will be an application form when you go to get a sticker that you’re gonna have to fill out a little bit more information than, than in the past. Um, we’ve also talked along period of times about a feasibility study for the transfer station. Um, so when Tom got on the board, he, you know, he really wanted us to take a look at trying to recover, uh,

2:06:37 construction, demolition material. Um, and so the idea is to take a look at the site, look at the yard waste area. Can we build something that area? Can we capture additional waste that we consider commercial waste? Um, what kind of money could we potentially, so this is a scope of work for a feasibility study overview. Um, there’s some design services. Um, conceptual design would be the 30%. Um, you know, we are looking at, you know, recovering construction, demolition material, which also could include, um, concrete reuse, other items like that, capturing metal, stuff like that. Looking at markets. Um, so when some of these companies are going to Pinto and some of these other areas around here, what are the fees?

2:07:23 What are they throwing away and what could we capture and what it’s gonna cost the equipment that’s gonna be needed to use it. So equipment like an excavator, number of employees. Um, so Haley and Moore is gonna be looking at all this stuff. Um, the total cost for this feasibility study at this point, um, project management, 3000 research and ST visits, 5,000. Um, feasibility report writing 12,000 project facility cost estimate 5,000. So the total cost for the feasibility study is $25,000. So I need a motion to move forward with Haley and Ward. I just have a question. Yeah. I can make a motion. Yep. To the, speak to the question. That’s generally what happens. So I’ve made a motion to speak to the question. Um, anyhow, I, uh, wondering if we were trying

2:08:12 to get the bid to get the transfer station completed, if we are biting off too much, maybe we should Two different companies, But it’s, it’s Marblehead dollars and maybe we need the Marblehead dollars to do this. The money’s already been allocated to this. You allocated a hundred and it’s a total of $105,000 to the feasibility study. Uh, the software and the LPR cameras. And so the feasibility study we had, we, we had estimated it was gonna be coming in around 50 to 75,000 and now it’s 105. No, it’s $25,000. What Did you say was 105? Just we Had allocated a total of $105,000 to these three Z items. So you don’t mind not having the, the bid

2:09:00 for the transfer station and then going forward with that. So the fees of, like, I always think about as different items going on that I have to be responsible for. Obviously Haley Ward’s gonna be doing all the research. They’ll do the site works off site. Okay. Yep. And but what I’m saying is that we’re spending money, we’re doing work and we’re not getting this stuff. What, what will our, our citizens say if, if we not putting, The only way I could spend that money is that you’d have to wait until next town meeting to reallocate those funds

2:09:34 For the transfer station. Yep. Not for the feasibility. What if you, what if you bag the feasibility study? What would you do with the money it Sits there? We can’t do anything With the money. So it’s gonna sit there and the price will go up. Yep. All. Well that makes sense. But what doesn’t make sense is that we’re doing the, the cart before the horse, The feasibility study is to look at the, the possibility of doing This big. This is a starting floor, right? Yeah. This is the sort everything, yeah. The project, the big project And yeah, it’s dealing with the separate set of material that could potentially be a revenue source for The town. Okay, well I understand that, but I just don’t, what, you know, Joe citizen doesn’t understand is that we’re going out there and spending that money when we haven’t

2:10:20 been able to take care of this. But I also do understand that this bid is gonna go up ‘cause I see everything going up, including my milk and juice and bread. So, um, alright, let’s do It. So, uh, I mean this is in principle, so if we allocate something one year and we don’t spend it, we lose it. So this, this money came out of our waste revolving account. So we allocate money at town media and say this is what it’s gonna be spent on and it goes in that bucket. But you can’t take that Money left over. We can’t go to town meeting and say we’re gonna take that $25,000 and put it into, So you can in this case, but if it’s part of the general budget, no, you lose it. But you could do it by this case.

2:11:06 Yeah. This money’s coming out of the waste revolving account, so it’s allocated to this, but if we don’t spend it, it would stay in the waste revolving account. We wouldn’t lose it. And so you could reallocate it to something next time, Just something else. Not, not necessarily. Or You could reallocate it to this, which Would be more money next time. Yep. Are you, are you dedicated to this job? Because this is What we’ve been talking about for over a year and this is what something that Tom has really passionate about? Yeah, Tommy is really interested in this. When we, when Joanne and I went to, to Wellesley, they, they say they don’t do this, they can’t afford to do it and it doesn’t add any money to them. But I, I’m, look, I’m the public health guy I, I can’t help with, But the whole reason for the feasibility study is

2:11:53 to suss out those questions. So you’re spending the $25,000 He wants to find out that we can’t do it. Okay. But still, alright. It’s $25,000. All. Yep. As long as we’ve got it. I mean, like to say, I hate to say it, it’s only $25,000. No, but you know, it’s, we are looking at, you know, you’re trying to increase revenue sources that, you know, the town has a shortfall. If we could potentially use the transfer station to raise additional fees that could be used in the transfer station, that could potentially offset costs, um, for residents to use that facility. I think you look at that. But would, would this feasibility study ever say that it’s, it it’s not, Not. Yes. Yes. That’s why you do a feasibility study.

2:12:41 Well, generally when you do a feasibility study, it’s a boilerplate thing and they already know the answer. No, we, you really have to. So we are in a cer like at a, I’ve been in enough feasibility states, are You unique situation where we are marblehead and we’re at the end of the earth. We need to look at trucking prices, we need to look at equipment prices, we need to look at the potential of material coming to Marblehead to be disposed stuff. And you’re gonna find out it’s all negative. I’m not, I don’t know what we’re gonna find out. I know there’s material in town, right? We have contractors building houses, so there is material here. Right now we’re limiting what contractors can throw away. We know that there’s additional material here. Is it worth our while to take that material and process that ourself?

2:13:26 And what kind of revenue sources would we see and what are the costs to, to creating this? Where’s this company from? This is Haley Moore. They’re our general engineers for the, um, they work for water and sewer and now they’re the kind of our general engineers for the transfer station. Okay. All right. So we’re looking for a motion for what, 25,000? Yep. What was, what’s the number? Uh, $25,000 for feasibility study with Haley and board. And that you said that takes care of the lights up there too. The What? The lighting did Just say something About, did not say anything about lighting. You say it’s Bundled with the software and other things. Oh yeah. So The, the hundred five was bundled with the LPR cameras, the software and the feasibility study. Yes. Yeah.

2:14:12 So what are we going on now? Just the feasibility study for 25? No, just, okay. Alright. All all in favor of that. A You’re in favor of that. I’m in favor going on 25,000 all. And when are we gonna hear about the, the, the other portion? So the software’s being moved forward and the, the LPR cameras will have final pricing on, and those are potentially gonna be installed at the end of January, uh, February timeframe. We need, um, fiber optics installed. And Those are all voted on. The fiber optics is being paid for by arpa. Oh, good. That’s an ARPA project. Great. Okay. All right. So, um, we’re done with that. Um, I have a few things to say for the public comment.

2:15:00 Um, first of all, are you interested in the fourth two three of the month to have your second meeting in January? I suggested January. I make the fourth Tuesday. That’s a, that’s a charter date. Can you do the fourth Monday of Wednesday? Yeah. What Wednesday? I Cannot do the third Monday. The fourth Tuesday or the second Thursday. Wait, so the, um, the,

2:15:33 the, the, uh, select board meets the second and fourth Wednesdays. So if we met on the Wednesday, we would overlap with them.

2:15:43 They meet at five though, don’t they? No, they meet at seven. Seven. Um, I’m going there tomorrow night. So, um, let me get my phone, my, uh, calendar. Alright, so January 8th is our meeting and we’re lucky because there were five, there are five Tuesdays and five Wednesdays. I’m sorry, I just moved the, there are five Wednesdays in January, so we can meet on the fifth. Wait, but you wanna come up with a standard meeting date that’s locked in everybody’s calendar. That’s through the whole year that you’re not trying to Oh, I have a dinner. I recommend, like, I want it in the calendar. I’m gonna recommend we do a trial January, February, March and see if we’re using those dates.

2:16:28 And if we wanna go further, we can con February vote to go further. Is that a good recommendation for a trial? No, I feel pretty strongly that we should have it in the year, have the calendar firm. This, there’s no way that busy people in a given month are gonna say, oh, next month’s empty. Let’s do it then I think we need to plan. That’s what we, What I’m saying, if we did it for three months as a trial and then in after the second one, February, see if we wanna go on to April, may, and June Or do you wanna go? You, you don’t wanna see what if we’re sitting here doing nothing. Okay. See the, so the well given the time that we spend, I don’t think that’s likely, but, um, the fourth Tuesday, yeah.

2:17:18 Okay. The, the charter committee meets from six, uh, six to eight 30. So that’s not good. So do you want the, the fourth Wednesday, which, which is the con conflicts with the Board of Selectmen? I would do, I would still do the fourth Wednesday and even The board select. Yep. I mean there’s so many other boards that mean like we About the fourth Monday,

2:17:46 I don’t think we should intentionally have the same night. ‘cause other people like to go to there. Uh, yeah. I don’t know all the other board schedules. So it’s like, you know, you’re, you’re picking the select board. Monday’s fine. Yeah, that’s, that works. We can do the fourth Monday. See if Tommy can do it. Yep, he can. All right. So that the fourth Monday in January, Well, it’s gonna be the fourth Monday for the year. Like, I’m gonna put this in calendar. What I’m saying is calendar, I’m commending that, that we do it for three months and see how it goes. You, you think,

2:18:21 I just don’t want to have come into April and like Well that’s not in my calendar. No. Yes. Things are gonna come up for people. What I’m saying is that after January, February, we can then decide

2:18:33 permanently you, you think? No, I, I, i, with, with all due respect, I cannot support that. I think I feel strongly that we need to have a regular month. I can’t, I can’t believe that we won’t fill two months if we become, we’re gonna become proactive in public health in ways that we never have. That will be an enormous amount of conversation. I, I just, I think the likelihood of our not needing two week two meetings a month approaches zero. Otherwise you end up like this, you, you, you, you abuse the, the, the visitors, the public and it’s, it adult learners work better from 80

2:19:23 to a hundred minutes after that. They, they lose. Um, and it, it just, Well, this isn’t too late. We’ve been out to put 10 o’clock before and we’re gonna go out at 10 o’clock this time.

2:19:37 But yeah, I I think we are both, you know, let’s, let’s create the fourth Monday of the month and let’s book it in the calendars for the year. If for whatever reason things happen and we’re like, all right, we don’t need this meeting or we need to cancel this one. I think we could, it’s easier to do that than trying to schedule it. Okay. The only problem with Mondays, as I think about it, is holidays. Correct? You got if the 4th of July is on. Yeah. But anyway, let’s do it. Yes. Let’s put it on the calendar and we’ll work, uh, uh,

2:20:11 And that will be helpful. It might. Uh, right, so we did talk about, uh, the January meeting, um, having, uh, us having read the body art and the tobacco and also that the counseling center and Mark Labon will be come to the meeting that, um, the January 14th meeting, we’ll have them, the two people from the counseling center and Mark Labon come and why don’t we talk about the body art and the tobacco on the 28th of January So we can talk about it. But I need the board to like review the regulations and say they’re ready. Well, they’re gonna be ready. They go to, they’ve got a month and they have to do it.

2:21:00 I read it la I read both them last night in an hour. Okay. So I, I need the board to read them, make suggestions to us. I gave them the, I gave them to you, uh, paper copies that last meeting I can send out. Okay. Yeah. I can send them out. I want the board to make sure that they’re okay with it. Then I’ll take the time and send it to town council. They’ll put it in our, you know, they’ll set it up in our format and then we can, you know, set up public hearing date. I don’t want the board to just rush through regulations. No, But just for the, you know, sake of creating regulations. Well, I, I, I highlighted what I highlighted what I told. We’re gonna have a long, it’s gonna be a long, uh, Well, we could just do it on that first January 2nd, that January 4th meet, fourth meeting of the month.

2:21:51 Let’s put it on the agenda for that. Sure. Alright. And, but it does not have that, whatever it is that she told us about. See, I went through it and I just highlighted what I, Well if, if they ever said he gave it to me, I have it somewhere. Don’t throw stuff. Yeah. Okay. So, But are you you willing to share it? Yeah, we’ll share. I’ll, I’ll send it out. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. No, So I mean, I worked on it, but it, it’s just what I was wanted to, to make. But we’re gonna talk about this on January 28th. Right. Okay. Um, all right. Members of the audience, thank you for join, staying with us.

2:22:37 You have, uh, you have seven minutes. Good comments. Um, earlier those talk about a fi i it used to be a fiery right in marble Head. Right near Transfer Station. Yes. Right. Waterside Road, June Street. I can remember that. When little kid, that woman, was that correct in understanding that you’re only gonna take checks and cash or j in uh, credit cards and you’re not gonna charge a surcharge for credit card use? Right. What’s gonna inspire people to pay by check? Nothing. So I, it’s just, just as you’re aware. Yeah. So it’s more that the town does not want me to take cash. So somewhere’s Yep. That pay my check. Yep.

2:23:24 Virtually no country in the European Union Union checks at all. I’m sorry. Bye John. We’re gonna evolve for that soon. I would think The other thing, um, ‘cause I go up there fairly rarely. Yeah. The big dumpster we use for both plastic and stuff. Yeah. I hate to tell you number of times I’ve gone up there, people throwing all sorts of crap that should have gone through the scale house. And when I talk to ‘em, they, you know, give me great, but I expect that. But I’ve seen ‘em do the same thing with your guys. It’s a good spot for camera. So There’re all there are cameras there. Yeah. But when we get the plate read and you can say, oh C Colonel Jones plate 1, 2, 3, 4. Yes. That we’re charging you a hundred dollars for screwing up our plastics. That is correct. So when the LPR r cameras go in,

2:24:12 we will be using the cameras more to identify what we call a legal dumping. They, uh, those guys get a lot of real. They do. And the hard thing is that, oh yeah, we have a really good crew. You know, you turn your back, somebody put something down. Hey sir, you just put No, I didn’t. And so it be, we don’t want that confrontation. No. And it should, it looks great. I’ll, I don’t mind sending something. Yeah. We will be able to use the cameras and essentially issue build control. Put It in my pocket. ‘cause you were talking your Twitter. Who was I Talking to? Thank you. I used you guys last month. I pretty, We missed Whatever Sharon. Thank You. You wanna Oh, so we adjourn the meeting.

2:24:58 Meeting? Yes. At, Uh, hearing 55.