Board of Health: January 14, 2025

Transcript captured from MHTV’s Vimeo auto-captioning. No speaker labels; proper names and dollar figures occasionally misheard. Click any timecode to jump to that moment in the source video.

0:00 January 4th.

0:03 Wanna wish everybody a happy New Year. I hope everybody’s, uh, keeping themselves warm and healthy. And, uh, we’re ready to begin the meeting. So, um, first item on the agenda is the Mar Hood counseling Center. Ruth, could you wanna come up here? Feels like you pretty thorough. All these tables are so long. Do you wanna sit? Can can she sit in, uh, yeah. S seat or, yeah.

0:32 What, what is usually my, that first? Yeah, the first thing Chair Me think. It seems so distant. Absolutely. Everyone else we’re mm-hmm. Nice to see everybody again from Washington Street. Uh, thank you. Terry McDonough, I believe is on the Zoom. She’s, uh, been somewhat under the weather, and so she is, uh, not able to be here with me today. I Say hello, Terry, if you’re there, and, uh, hope you feel better. So I’ll just, uh, prepared some remarks and, uh, some data points and, you know, obviously all can ask me any questions that you want. Thank you for giving me the opportunity

1:17 to talk about the Counseling Center. We’re grateful for the continual support from the town, the Select Board, and the Board of Health for over five and a half decades speaking for the Board of directors. We are very proud of the work in the center. Over the last year, continuing to bring on new staff, making additional improvements to our administrative infrastructure, and further improving the Hops building. We have a truly enthusiastic team of seasoned staff and new members of the team at all levels. We thank the town and this board for providing the APA funds that allowed much of this to happen. In addition, this past year, MCC was the recipient of a significant bequest from the estate of Amy Salts. One of the ways we are honoring Amy’s memory is the Garden and landscaping improvements

2:03 made to the front of the center. And I’d like to recognize the generosity of Four Seasons for the design Lasana for the Landscaping, and the Mariner for donating to Granite Bench. It’s really a nice, uh, place for contemplation. And, um, I was there. It was beautiful. Thank you. MC celebrated over 55 years serving the community with a series of terrific events. Community Wellness Day included entertainment information booths from a variety of service providers, including the Marblehead Police Department and the Mental health task force Ice cream from Terry’s games and even pony rides. In the summer. Rob Delaney, A loyal marble header, came back

2:49 to the Performing Arts Center to have a conversation with WB Z’s Lisa Hughes, about the struggles of his mental health issues over the years. And with the emotional experience of living through the illness and death of his son, Henry, and the substance use also. Right. His Yes, that’s true. He was very, he very candid. Very candid. He spoke, felt it was important to say that. ‘cause whip’s also concerned about that. Yes. So, absolutely. Yeah. Um, it was an honor to be part of that evening. In September, we sold, we, uh, sold out a comedy night, and we, I wanna thank you, uh, our, to our give thank you to our big supporters at the Gary Five who for providing the venue. Um, and, uh, a wrap up

3:36 of the 55th celebration is in the works for the spring. And more of that’ll be meeting

3:43 No, no, we’re not good. The right place

3:50 Joke. Guess I, so we continue to deal with the challenges of the post pandemic world, particularly concerning the mental health of our citizens. Issues are very complex and require multiple levels of treatment across all age groups. Though the needs among younger pe among our younger population are significant. As we all know, the youth, uh, come to us with issues around socialization in school, sexual identity issues with their parents, all interim issues. The many layers to these traumas often mean clients need to be in treatment much longer than in the past. And the elderly continue to be the next largest cohort with serious challenges and issues. The town funding is one important part of, in the formula

4:38 that keeps the center operating, we provide the services spelled out in our contract and cover the cost of those services through the town appropriation supplemented by the generosity of many important collaborators, the Gary Five, and everyone who donates to our annual friends campaign during the, uh, 2020. During 2024, we served approximately 400 clients, 53% of whom are from Marblehead for a total of about 7,000 clinical hours over the course of the year. This doesn’t include the significant amount of time spent responding to the social service needs of our Marblehead clients.

5:13 As of this month, the waiting list is at two thirty five, a hundred forty 3% are from Marblehead. And that’s comprised of how many from Marblehead? Uh, 100, 100%. Or 100, 100 people. 40, 43% of the 235 total individuals on the, on the list, uh, that is made up of, according to our business manager, Lisa Cohen, uh, 10 from, uh, this year already, twenty twenty five, a hundred and five from 2024 and 1 21 from 2023. We are constantly contacting people who are on our waiting list to confirm whether or not they still want to remain on the waiting list. And as you all know, when people call in

6:00 and we are, uh, available twenty four seven, we have a, a phone number. There’s someone assigned to answer the phone when anyone calls in every day of the week, all day. And, uh, so at, uh, an intake process happens and we assess the clinicians, assess the level of urgency of the situation, and can respond to immediate crises by referring them either to dialing 9 1 1 or to, uh, getting to an emergency room and hospital. Um, and then there are people who, who may be on this list. We, Lisa’s been doing a terrific job trying to clean this up, but, uh, who put themselves on the number

6:47 of waiting lists and then, then they get up because every mental health clinic has a waiting list. Every hospital, every mental health provider, um, when they get picked up, they may not think, oh, I better call back all those other places that I’ve put my name on. So, and that’s, that’s the nature of what’s going on in the world right now, is that the demand exceeds, uh, the ability to provide the services. Do you know the percentage Adolescent SII can get that for you, but I don’t know it off hand. Right. Okay. Yeah. You you wanna shoot me an email or something? Yeah, we’ve, we’ve, um, we’d like to all see it. Yeah. I think I, the last time I sent you materials was several months ago, and it did include the breakdown by age. So we can, we can do it, we can get it to you.

7:35 Uh, our current staffing situation is as follows. Uh, on the clinical side, we have seven licensed clinicians and two clinicians that are master’s level grad students working towards licensure. And the program that’s partly funded through the Cummings Foundation grant we received last year, and Mark Labon were here, I would’ve thanked him for a lot of the work that he’s done, both in terms of helping us get, um, good interns through Salem State University, but also working with us on figuring out how this program would work a couple of years ago, where we can get, we get some partial reimbursement, not the, from insurance companies and the state, but not the same as we would get from a fully licensed clinician. So everyone is under supervision.

8:22 Um, and it also allows us to keep interns when we have interns that usually have had, and where was leave and go someplace else. That was a larger institution that could afford to cover all the costs. So the Cummings grant was huge. So the license And how many interns do you have? Two Master’s lever grad, grad students who are, have finished their internship. They’re doing the two years under supervision to get, to be able to become licensed. And then we have, right now we have one intern from Salem State. Um, but we’ve already, uh, Marie said that the interns, prospective interns used to start calling in March, late late March, early April. Now they’ve, they call in the fall,

9:08 and we’ve already identified two interns who are going to start in June. So the one who is, uh, currently an intern will either move on or might apply. Yeah. Um, so right now we’re looking to hire one more clinician, fully licensed clinician. Everybody out there hear that.

9:29 And, uh, as far as social services go, uh, we very recently hired Catherine Percy. Uh, she came on board to replace the previous social social worker who had worked with us, and unfortunately had to step away due to some health issues. So Terry McDonough has been filling this significant gap for several months, and we’re thrilled that we found someone to take over for her and she can, uh, go back into supervision and her and, uh, uh, filling this, filling in with, with her other full-time job. So, I know, but can you explain to the, to everyone else the difference between a license, uh, NSW worker, this one social worker that you’re waiting for, or clinician actually I should say? Uh, well, I hope I can do a good job of it,

10:16 but it’s, it’s a, an individual who, um, has a degree in, in social work and doesn’t work with the, um, is not licensed to be a mental health clinician. But we have, uh, when people come to, to the center or to any mental health clinic, they frequently come with a lot of ancillary issues. It’s not just that, uh, things are going on, uh, in, in terms of their mental health. Their physical health may be an issue or their, uh, financial health might be an issue. They may have had, uh, a death in the family. They may have had, uh, someone lose a job. They may have food insecurity. So we have, um, we have, uh,

11:03 organizations like the Marvel Head Female, we may Main Society and others who, um, and the Ministerial Association, a number of the churches who provide, uh, gift, uh, funds to get gift cards, uh, grocery store cards over the holidays. A lot of the grocery stores step up and provide, um, And making ends meet And making ends meet. Yes, absolutely. Making ends meet particularly, I, they just have done a huge job over the holidays with families. Right. Uh, and so lastly, I’ll just talk a little bit about the Bobs building. Uh, the updates. When I came last December a year ago, uh, we were in the process of getting started with a lot of things. I mean, um, and had completed some of the, uh,

11:53 internal, uh, it work, but the physical plan of the s building that work was done this year. The f the first floor renovations were completed in May making, uh, the reception area fully HIPAA compliant and moving the business manager’s office to the first floor. So now all the administrative activities take place on the floor and the clinical work, uh, that freed up space for clinicians to see clients and, and what have you upstairs. Um, we’re currently waiting, uh, awaiting an update on, um, when the, uh, work will be done, uh, around our, we still have a problem with windows that are broken, leaving, uh, painted shut. Uh, the town’s architect’s been to the center

12:39 to look at the windows. The fire chief has been there. And, um, we also need to do work. We’re going out, uh, with the back porch, which would be a means of egress when we fix the kitchen. The former kitchen area is going to be the space that will be the, um, space to allow us to have potential group meetings and other kinds of meetings. And, uh, I think we’re going out to bid soon on the renovations of the kitchen itself. So we need to get those final repairs. We got a new boiler through some additional ARPA funds, and, uh, some things that’s big changes at the center.

13:22 Uh, and finally, we’re proud of the changes we’ve made to our website and our social media platforms over the, over the course of the last year. Um, we strive to post on the social media regularly, not just about MCC specifically, but also about the mental health aspects of what’s happening in our country and the world. And, um, if you’re not everybody up there and anybody here, if you’re not doing so already, it would be great if you followed us on Facebook and Instagram. And, um, any links to that can be found@marbleheadcounseling.org or, uh, website. So thank you again. Newsletter has been Great too. Yes. Big improvement. Yes. I think that’s wonderful. Yeah, we had a, a terrific, uh, woman who worked

14:10 with us at the beginning of the, of the, uh, this year. And, uh, went on to another opportunity that was a bigger opportunity and better for her, where she was in her career path. And then, uh, we were lucky enough to find someone to replace her. Amy Conley, who’s done an amazing job. Questions from the board? ‘cause I have a few after you guys. No, no, I just, my only one was about the breakdown because I, I am, you know, me, 50 53% from Robinhood. Why is that? Uh, well, uh, we, uh, as you know, we have, um, a firm commitment

14:55 and an understanding, uh, with the, with the town of Marblehead, the residents of the town and employees of the town take priority over other folks. Uh, and you pro, and I’m sure you know, uh, that there was a few years ago there were some, uh, the counseling center went through some financial struggles, and it looked like, um, we needed to make some adjustments. And we’ve become, uh, a larger, well, larger in the sense that we have a broader scope of peop of people that we, uh, will serve. Uh, we accept probably more insurances than just about any other place.

15:41 You know, there are places who will say, well, if you have a insurance or B insurance, but if you’re on the state insurance, you’re not, we don’t take it. That kind of thing. We, we have a, a nearly endless list of insurance providers. Um, and there’s, there’s also just a matter of the logistics of when people come in and what their needs are. And if we have a full, uh, compliment of clients, if someone calls up and they’re from Marblehead, we don’t, we definitely do not remove one client to replace them to the marble header. So that percentage goes up and down. But, uh, but it’s just, But you said you have a hundred marble headers on the waiting list. That’s right. Means we’re not

16:28 servicing our own community. It may it, well, we don’t have it. That would require more clinicians. This, there’s so many layers to the issues of why they’re on the waiting list, that it could be that we have people who call, who want our services, and they have, uh, the kinds of lives where they’re working, they have kids, whatever. And they say, I want, I, I need help. And I can come in, uh, at, uh, four o’clock in the afternoon. And sometimes we just can’t fit with the clinicians. There are, there are times a day where you drive by the center and you’d think, oh, that they’re not that busy. There’s nobody there. But it’s a, it’s a function

17:13 of supply and demand. We only have so many clinicians and so many time slots. And sometimes people want others, others slots. I don’t know. Can Terry participate? Or she Yes, She can. Okay. Yeah. Hi. I was muted ‘cause I was coughing. I’m really sorry. You Wanna answer any of my questions? Hi, Ruth. You did a great job. I can’t really, um, you know, expand too much on that. I do know that the latest number of, um, Marblehead children that we had was under 25 on the wait list. Um, part of the 100. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, those are really kind of round figures because like Ruth said, some of those, um, go back,

17:58 can go back quite a ways. Um, some folks possibly have had hospitalizations and then connected with other clinicians. Some folks may have more complex, uh, medical needs on top of the mental health needs, and so really need, um, more of a hospital based setting. Um, so it’s, it’s not a one size fits all. Um, and we definitely have the c capacity to, um, expand the staff, which we are interviewing someone later this week, uh, for a new clinician. Um, and we’re, we’re constantly kind of working on that recruitment piece. No, and obviously this is a tremendous resource to the community, uh, tremendous benefit to the residents at Marveled.

18:45 Um, the board and the health department allocates in the past approximately $60,000. We’ve had a lot of discussion about that. We’re requesting approximately $120,000 in this coming year’s budget. Great. So for FY 26, obviously we’re at the very beginning of the budget process and we need to get through town meeting. Um, but that is where we’re looking to spend money. Again, this is a direct benefit to residents of Marblehead. These funds can only be used by Marblehead residents. Um, but this is a great resource. That’s why I ask. And also, the one 20 is where we were many years ago. Yes. We reduced it and reduced it. So now I hope that we can get back to where we were, and that’s what, um, is important to me. But, um, those 123 from,

19:34 from 2023, that’s another thing that’s bothering me. If they had needs in 2023, what, I mean, where have they been? I mean, what are they doing? And, and do they still have needs? You said you keep checking in, but they’re waiting two years to be serviced. Terry can jump in here too, but I, it’s, there are different levels of needs and people may, uh, feel the need to talk to someone to, to, um, get some support and they put themselves on a waiting list. And we’re always, as I said, assessing the level of, of need of each individual who, who comes through. So, uh, I know it sounds,

20:19 I know it sounds strange. I don’t, I Waiting two years to be treated. Yeah. And there, there are some who, um, you know, really have to kind of work around their own scheduling jobs change, children’s activities change. And so it’s a, it’s a real matrix of trying to kind of match the scheduling, um, and make sure that it’s the right clinician. That’s very, very important to our chief clinical officer who really goes through all the intakes one by one is to make sure that they are matched with the right skillset and with the right clinician as well. So, um, and I just wanted to say thank you to the board for, um, showing us so much support and they’ve been doing a lot of advocacy

21:06 and, um, to the board of Health, all the commissioners and Andrew for being so supportive of us over the years. We’re really excited to have a new case manager on board. I think our last one left, her last appointment was in December, so we’ve kind of been limping along, but we did see over 200 clients for social services this year and, um, helped to divert 14 evictions, um, which is pretty significant. Housing has been a really significant issue with, um, with the financial assistance piece this year. I just wanted to mention, And Lisa left a year ago, December, right? Yeah. Now, may I just ask one more question about the elderly?

21:53 Are you doing any, and last year I asked about the groups. Are you going to like the Council on Aging, uh, or to some of the, uh, seniors places to, I’m sorry? Are you going like to Council on Aging or senior places to get some group work with the elderly or, So we do a lot of referrals, um, to other great resources, but we’re really excited to have the space, um, built out where that back kitchen area is and it will have its own private entrance. Um, and we already have people on board to, there’s someone, um, who had a really significant following with a caregiver, uh, caregiver support group, um, that we’ve been in talks with. We have, um, some, um, substance use disorder sort of,

22:39 um, uh, family recovery, um, and peer recovery support folks who are in, uh, the business of this that we’re, we’re ready, we’re ready to host when, when we get that work done.

22:54 What else do you have to do for, to the kitchen? I mean, is it just furnishings or, Well, no, it’s, it’s building out, it’s moving some of the kitchen, uh, out of some of what was actually the kitchen out of there. And, uh, the floor, I don’t know all the details offhand, but I believe it’s floor needs to be, needs to be reviewed. It’s not a, it’s not a huge, uh, anticipated expense. And it’s part of the, it’s part of the plan that we’ve had from the beginning with the ARPA funds that has allowed us to do all this capital work for the Hobbs building. And I heard you got money for the, uh, for, for the Stover at least got it out of the, out of the place. Yes. It Went through the, uh, uh, public, uh, the website, the state has for surplus property,

23:41 and someone in Western Mass decided their home. And, uh, Belchertown needed a, that’s probably was an old farmhouse or something, and needed a giant cast iron stove, which

23:55 Yeah, They, they dismantled it and, and took it out. But that really kind of shone a light on the problems with the back porch. So that, that’s gonna be a big, um, piece to be able to finish that back porch so that folks can kind of safely enter and exit into groups privately through the back entrance. So that’ll start some group work too. That’s, that’s the plan for sure. Absolutely. That’s because that’s the motivator handle doing a lot At a time. Well, thank you as always. But you know, I’m very, very interested, even though I had a lot of questions, it’s because I care. It’s not because I’m trying to trip you up or Anything, you know, that and all of You’re welcome. If you’ve been, can I ask one question? You, Yes. Uh, please.

24:42 Um, did you say the budget went from 60,000 last year suit to 120,000? 60, 60 to one 20? Yeah, that’s, no, It went down. It went down. Well, it’s been trying to get it back. We’re, yes, it’s, the proposal is to get it up to the prior level of 120,000, the level of support from the Board of Health through the town budget. And you think that’ll then plateau with the number of folks using these services.

25:10 Uh, something like this tends to grow. It’s like opening a soup kitchen. Everybody seemed to get by until you open this. And then it’s like an unbelievable amount of people that it attracts. So I don’t, I don’t, personally, I don’t think that’s gonna be the case here. It will allow us to, uh, provide additional services. And we have a waiting list now as you could, as you’ve heard. And there’s a, there’s a significant demand. But I think that, uh, I mean, we’re, we are actively trying to encourage people to know about the center and, uh, be able to provide services to them. But I don’t, I I don’t, I’m very familiar with the Female Humane Society. Great. They you’re a great resource. Thank you. We do too. Very, they’re terrific group of women.

25:58 Um, they help a lot of people. Um, thank you again. Feel better. Thank you for coming on when you’re not up to snap. Thank you all coming. Thanks so much, everybody.

26:19 So Mark is not coming. So, uh, we will go on to, uh, Dr. Zaro, you have a community health update.

26:29 Yeah. Let me give, uh, 30 seconds on the mental health task force, which meant met last night. Um, it continues to have a robust participation across, uh, a number of fields. Uh, Dr. Labon, uh, working with the former resident of this chair, uh, Joanne Miller has done a fantastic job of making the resources and the capacity of the mental health task force available. We work in great partnership with the, uh, counseling center. Um, working now with, uh, um, Mr. McMahon, uh, and, uh, really providing, um, a, a,

27:15 a viable partner in, in serving, uh, this community in different ways. It’s, it’s, it, as a relative newcomer, I’ve been incredibly impressed, clearly by the counseling center, but also now the partnership that’s out there, uh, with the task force to serve people that have behavioral and mental challenges. Um, and that’s the, the bulk of my community health report. We have begun to, uh, try to raise money to get the UMass Boston contract for the health assessment study, which we hope to and plan to have begin in this spring.

28:02 Uh, under your tutelage, Madam Chair, I have learning. I’m learning how to help raise money, and hopefully we’ll be able to find the $45,000 that are, that are necessary to do this health assessment, um, and from the generosity of the community. Well, that was a nice plea. I hope people heard that.

28:27 But you know what, you gotta go back more than once. I’ve already gone back twice now to the first, first visit, and we’ve got several lined up. Good. Okay. I’m listening. Listening. I’m listening. I’m checking boxes. Yeah, yeah. Good. Going forward. You know, I mean, my wife says I’m not capable of learning anymore, but I think That, I think you are, I know that, uh, that Ruth knows about raising money. So if you get tired of me go to Ruth, Hey, I, I have to take, I’ll take tutorial from anyone. I really, really believe that this, uh, creating a healthier marblehead can be a foundation for all of the activities that take place in this town

29:14 and a, and a resource for the town in, in, in many ways. And so, uh, um, I think the first step in raising, I ho I would suspect that the first step in raising money is believing in what you are trying to, to support. And I, I truly believe now that’s called the case, that this is, we know that. Sorry, That’s called the case. Yeah. Okay. That’s the case. I I you From that in school, didn’t you? Yeah. Anyway, uh, that’s my report. So I I have a question. Uh, when you talk about the mental health task force, uh, are doing wonderful things, are you referring people or are they doing direct clinical services or

30:00 No, it definitely not doing direct. Now, what has happened, when I, when I first started going to it, there were a group of seven or eight people, Joanne had to cancel three meetings in a row because it wasn’t a forum, those sorts of things. Last night we had 17 people Oh, wonderful. On the invitation list, on, uh, on, uh, zoom. Uh, as well, we’re getting, what we’re getting is an education. In last night we had particularly got an education in new types of therapy, new ways people are approaching, um, mental health problems in, in positive and, and according to the speaker, very effective ways. So we are, we,

30:49 we don’t do clinical, we, Well, I know that, but I wanted to make sure that, okay. Well, we hope we can do is encourage the clinicians out there to be more efficient and more effective. Um, partly because we, we’d be a bridge or a focal point where that communication can occur and that, um, and, and, and at least again, um, I, I feel strongly that we have, uh, more support now from the schools than we had two years ago. We have a, a student representative who’s, who’s there, who’s articulate, uh, gonna be in university next year

31:35 and interested in psychology and, and, uh, great. And we, we’ve got, uh, uh, support and representation from the superintendent’s office on a regular basis. We had a, a great, uh, demonstration as was shown here as well on, uh, um, the new social, social emotional learning. Um, the newspaper did a great job of, of the article that, that, uh, they, that was written. So we’re, we are trying to be a coordination body for the, the community as much as possible. Well, it’s good when you do get a, an article in the paper, it, you know, it, lots of people see it. So if you heard like you had a great speaker last night,

32:22 are you gonna write that up for the, for people to read? Well, the speakers in actually in, in the, uh, process of writing the book that he wants to send. But, but no, we’ve got, uh, we, we’ve got already three different, uh, articles that are in progress or the, the, uh, newspaper. And we, we, um, we’re, we are really trying to give the, the community a broader background on ideas and words and concepts that we all use, but probably are more effective at dealing with them when we understand at that next level. Um, it, it, the one

33:09 that I did recently was on substance substances. And I, you know, as a former chemist, I tried to put, uh, some of the explanation of what’s, what’s, what’s the, what’s the chemistry we’re gonna, we’re, we’ve got several others like that, that are, that are in process. Um, Susan mentioned last night, um, anyway, Well, thank you Ryan. No, you’re doing great work. We just have to get it up to people that need it and want it. Thank you very much. So are we going ready for the wellness fair? I think we’re ready to go. We’ll just, yeah, everything else, I mean, it’s happening Saturday. Hopefully everyone here will be there. Well, What, just announce where it is in the 10. It’s at the community center from 10:00 AM to 2:00 PM Um,

33:55 hopefully we’ve put enough out there with all the newspapers, social media and all that stuff that people have caught. Wind, word of mouth, all that. Um, I mean, there’s I think almost like, what, almost 30 vendors? Yeah. 28 vendors. But the raffle prizes are insane. Yep. So it’s, and all you have to do to get in the raffles show up and that’s it. So like that nice and easy. So, um, and you know, I’ve personally, you know, I’ve gone to a lot of classes with a lot of these people, you know, at their gyms and stuff like that, and pumped out reviews on them, and there’s some, there’s some stuff out there that’s, it’s really, it’s, it’s pretty cool what we have in this town that I wasn’t aware of. There was even one gym where I, I went there for the first time and I was like,

34:40 you know, I’m gonna join this place. This is great. You know, so, and I wouldn’t have thought that had I not, well, I’m glad that you’ve got all these gyms, but there are also other people on nutrition. It says sustainable marble that’s coming. Uh, Yep. No, there’s tons, there’s tons of the counseling center is gonna be there, there’s gonna be a lot, lot of places, you know, We’re gonna have blood, a blood pressure, uh, table mm-hmm. Which people might be interested in, and that’s because of our public health nurse has gotten someone to do that. So I wanna thank our, our director for put lining that up. And, um, thank you everyone who’s offered to come. It’s a great service to the community. Oh, we’re, we’re really excited about this event. You know, we’re, we’re hoping that this will be a huge event with lots of people, and this will be in the annual event, uh, in the years to come.

35:26 Um, it’s a great way to focus and, you know, kind of highlight these marblehead businesses and these owners that put a, a tremendous amount of work into their business. Um, some great benefits for the community. So we’re really looking forward to it and we hope that it’s a, a great successful event And I hope everybody has it on their calendar, although it is a holiday weekend and we may Lose, hopefully it’s can be nice and cold and everybody will wanna come inside and speak to all these individuals and, and look forward to the nicer whatever weather to come and, and really, you know, concentrate on their health and wellness.

35:59 Um, that’s it. Yeah. Okay. Come Saturday, um, the transfer station. You ready to Give Mr? Yeah, so transfer station, uh, obviously we’ve had a lot of discussion about, you know, we, unfortunately we had a bid, we only received one bid that was over budget. Um, so really what you know, I’m recommending is that we continue on, um, you know, we, we take the, the sum of money that we have, um, and, and try to allocate that and what we need to concentrate on or essentially three mean main pieces of the project. So when I look at the project, we have the Compactive building and the site work that really should be the next focus of this, of department and of the board. So we should look to pair the project down

36:46 to include the site work and really redo that Compactive building and put that back out to bid. Um, obviously we have a waste revolving account that’s always generating money. The next piece after that, we will be looking to do the scale house. So depending on how much money we bring in, obviously we have a amount that we have to spend out. We’re looking to hopefully continue on with the work we have using waste revolving account, uh, funds that we have to continue on. So essentially you’d be looking to do the compactor, building the site work. That would be kind of phase one, if you want to call it that. Next, you’d be looking at to replace the scale house after that, you’d be looking to build a swap shed. Obviously, we all already have a feasibility study going on to take a look at, uh,

37:32 handling construction demolition in a, in a separate building. Um, so you know, obviously with the financial situation of the community of the town, we need to be really cognizant of that. And my recommendation is to use the funds that we have to continue on with construction and continue to kind of pick away at this, uh, and get things done. Obviously we have a great residential area. We will soon have these, uh, transaction hut that will be back in the residential area, a control hut for that co new compactor. We’ve a brand new compactor that’s going into getting next week. Um, so we will be replacing the compactor that’s existing that’s been there for a long time. Yes, it has been rebuilt once, but we are replacing that, uh, that construction begins, uh, January 20th, and we’ll take approximately two weeks.

38:20 We will need to do a little bit of work this Thursday to prep for that, but that main compactor, so the commercial operations will be down for two weeks. Uh, until that is complete. Questions regarding that? No, but I’ll make a comment. Me and Andrew met, I’m, you know, I’m gonna be mildly vague on this, but like I, I have a friend I’ve known my whole life who was a construction company in town, very reputable, and he wanted to take a stab at it. And what he found was that the, for the amount that we have, the hurdles you have to go through and the red tape you have to do causes it as one big project to be not realistic for that amount. If you were to remove all those, he could do it for half the price.

39:06 And he mentions that, which is extremely frustrating as, as a resident when you’re like, this shouldn’t cost as much. He agrees, but he can’t even put in a bid because it, you know, because of all these rules. So you have to follow as a municipal project. And, um, and, but it was very good to sit down with him and understand that from a construction company’s point of view, who wants as a resident to almost basically do it at cost to really do it as like, uh, helpful to his own community that he grew up in. And um, and finding out where his roadblocks were. And I can give you kind of one example that is the most glaring one I think Andrew would agree, is the paint. Yeah. Painting the building, the bids

39:52 that came in the lowest bid. Now, if I was to call any painting company in this area, I could get it done for $20,000. The lowest bid we had come in was 115 grand, and you have to take the lowest bid and they have to be decamps, like they have to have all this red tape in order to be able to put in a bid so they can almost like come in and just kind of gouge you because there’s nothing you can do about it. And then they forgot to.one I and cross one T, so the next lowest bidder called them out and their bid was 170 grand. So then that becomes the bid that you have to go with, which is ridiculous. So these are some of the hurdles you run into when you go through this, where something, where anyone looks at it,

40:37 hell, I could throw a ladder up there and paint it myself for that, you know, but you have to go through these unnec, what I would call unnecessary processes, and it just extrapolates that price and makes it extremely difficult. So Andrew’s picked like the best way, like if you were to do it all at once, we don’t have that money right now without going to the town for an override. And I don’t think the town has an appetite for that. And, um, so chipping away it little bit by little bit is probably the best route to go in order to get it go. And, you know, and it is frustrating given the history of it. Um, but as far as getting it done, that’s probably the most appropriate way to get it done. Um, cost effectively for the town. I, Andrew, you to Andrew? No, I mean that’s really sums it up.

41:23 It is really frustrating. Obviously we go through a whole whole process. We use an Es so we have an architect, we even use an estimator to give us estimates of where we think the project will come in right before we go out to bid. The estimator came back in at $1.2 million that was within budget, but when we put it out to bid the lowest bid or the only bid we got was $2,380,800. So that’s twice the budget that we had, or twice the even what the estimator thought that the cost gonna be. Um, so yeah, it is extremely frustrating. You do a lot of work to get to this point, but the best thing for us to do is to kind of pare it down, do what we can do and continue on, save money and continue on to do this work. Um, again, the biggest thing, you know, the next,

42:08 the biggest impacts over the next couple of weeks are gonna be the replacement of this compactor. It is gonna be a huge upgrade for us once this is in, we’re not gonna have these downtimes that we’ve experienced over the last couple of years with breakdowns and stuff like that. So this is a big, big piece to it. Um, but yes, that main compact compactor will be down for two weeks. We will be doing a lot of hauling ourselves. Um, but there, there is a significant impact to the commercial side of operations. Um, again, this will, you know, residential side will continue to be open to the residents. There will be no issues with that. There might be some small challenges here and there, uh, but we wanna just make sure everybody’s aware of that. We will send out a general notification to everybody in our email listserv, so all residents about this construction

42:55 that’s gonna be going on up there. And we’ll also make sure all of our commercial accounts are aware of this construction activity as well. That’s Important. Yeah. You know what, uh, I allowed you just to ask, uh, Ms. Ferguson because she, uh, could, she may have left, but the questions from the audience are at the end of the meeting, if you don’t mind. Can, can you wait? Um, and then obviously we have a new sticker program currently. Uh, we’re phasing out using actual stickers. We’re going to a sticker list program. Um, so that’s in place now. Um, so we are currently using the online system. It’s called Town Hall 24 7. So again, this is something different. People aren’t used to this. Um, but yeah, currently you can purchase stickers online. It’s very user friendly.

43:41 Yes, you have to upload, if you’re at your own home, you have to upload your registration. It’s pretty straightforward if you’re not living there, if you’re a renter, I need a copy of your utility bill. You put it into the system, we review everything. We will process your application, we’ll process your check or your, uh, credit card. It does take a few days. You’re still able to use the facility while we’re going through this process, but this is really the last year that you’ll get a sticker for the transfer station. We will still be able to process and give stickers out to the beach. Um, but this is just part of the new system. And I will say, I mean, I, I’ve gotten mixed. I’ve actually gotten mostly, and I’m not just gonna say this to blow smoke up the board, but um, most people have said like, wow, that was really easy. My mom did have a hard time with it though.

44:27 I don’t know why she didn’t come to me, but, um, so, but I get it. It’s, it’s growing pains and it’s something different. And, but when you go on, you know, I did me and my wife at eight, eight o’clock at night, which was nice, you know, I was just sitting around and I did both of them. I took a picture with my phone of the registration, just uploaded it in. You know, when you search your name in there, it’s, it’s already there. So really you’re just finding yourself and then, you know, putting in a couple of your license plate, a couple things like that, they verify it. And then, you know, less than a week later, I had a sticker, the stickers in, in the mail. But I get it, it, it’s, it’s growing pains and some people are gonna be frustrated by it. But this is how we get to the license plate reader, which is all digital and online. And, um, you know, I, I compare it to like something stupid. Like when I was in college

45:12 and I first saw people text messaging, I’m like, I’m never gonna do that. You gonna screw that. I’m just gonna call people all the time. I, I don’t call anyone anymore. I text everyone. So it’s like, yeah, sometimes these things come and you’re just like, you know, all this is, this is too, too much for me. And then it just becomes routine. And I think that’s what it’ll be next year. I think it’s gonna be one year growing pain. Everyone’s gonna figure out how to do it and that you’re all good. If you do not have a computer, if you are unable to do it online, you’re more than welcome to come into the office. We’re gonna collect the, you know, paperwork from you, a copy of your registration. We will process it for you. We are installing a computer in the hallway just outta our office. So there will be a computer available to people, but we are there to assist everybody to make sure it’s, you know, it’s seamless.

45:58 It does take a little bit of time, it does take a little bit of processing time, but again, you can still use the facility if that’s what you Need to do. And yeah, two more things on that actually. One is, is that, um, uh, what was this? Oh, so Marty does the, the, when you do it in person, Marty has to do it. Now Marty has a full-time job in there. So he, his full-time job comes first. The stickers come after. So your best, uh, your best idea is to at least attempt it online because you’re gonna get it a lot sooner because you’re putting in all your information. And then he is gonna mail it out. If you wait to come into him, you know, he’s gonna have all the information, but before he can input it, he has to finish his other tasks first. So it’s always good to attempt it first online. The other thing, which was a suggestion, which I’m glad you pointed out that computer in there.

46:45 Yep. Steve Elliot suggested that, um, maybe this would be an opportunity for seniors to Yes. Uh, so yeah, we we’re trying to work with the accounts on aging, um, and yes, we believe, I gotta just talk to, uh, Lisa over there that this would be an opportunity for, uh, potential senior tax work off for me, right? I up to you. Yeah, so the, the only other pieces with this, so, you know, when you put everything into the system, there are three of us in the office that do review everything. So we’re trying to get through the pile as quickly as possible. Yes. If you have to fill out the form and by hand, Marty is the one that’s gonna review that. Um, if there’s a couple little things that get snagged or hung up, if you’re a commercial plate, I’m the only one that can process those.

47:31 So I have to verify. So a commercial plate, we’re trying to figure out what the business is doing. Are they using the, trying to use the facility to get rid of business trash or are they trying to use the facility as a regular resident and they’re just, you know, it coming, coming across as a commercial plate. Some of those are the little things that kind of slow things up. Marty’s been good and, and I, he’s too bad. He is not here for us to give him a an attaboy. He Works really, really hard. He does, he’s a tremendous asset to, to my department. Uh, we’re very, very lucky. He’s Working two jobs for us And he, and he works really hard, so we really appreciate all the hard work that he Does. I, it seemed to me when I talked to him though, he said that he has certain hours that he’s seen People. Yeah. So we are only taking people for the stickers from nine to 11, and then from two to four,

48:18 That’s what I, that’s almost all day though. It is. I mean, we’re trying to, and, and obviously if you show up at the office, I’m, I’m not gonna turn you away. If we’re able to, you know, we understand the people Nine to 11, two to four. Yep. Okay. All right. So, uh, do you have bills that you’re interested in? Yeah, the Quick question. So what’s the, what since town hall 24 7. And how is that accessed? Uh, so online, but where online. So if you go to Marblehead, I, you know, I go to Marblehead, do 24, you know, town hall do 24 7. Um, and it brings you right to the website. It’s town hall. Yeah. Yeah. You go into health department and you then you’ll see it on the right hand side. You, if you go through it, you’ll see. So

49:04 You go to health department. Yeah. And then you kind just manage through. That’s, as we all know, it’s not a great website. Oh yeah. So it’s, yeah, Town, town marblehead.org, health department transfer station permits. But it was, without knowing I went on and I was, you know, health department and I, I was able to read and find it and get there. Just wanted to make sure everybody, yes, thank you. And, And again, you know, if, if you’re unable to find it, call the office. I’ll sit on the computer and walk you right to that location. Um, yes. Some, some of that is not the easiest. I think in the future, hopefully with the new website, there will be a button at the very bottom of the first screen to just push

49:50 Anything else right there. That’s it for that. What about the bills? Oh, all right. Quick. Let’s this time a one exterminators for rack control of $250, uh, Bailey’s test strips, that’s for food service inspection equipment and cleaning wipes. 95 50 Black Earth compost for residential food composting. Um, that’s 1,018. Um, dollars and 88 cents. Guardian booth, LLC, that’s for the transaction hut. And the control booth, um, that ca came to 13,734 point 69. Uh, the counseling center was $2,559 and 63 cents May retreat service for the grinding and compost removal. That’s 27,500 with a US Bank National Bill for 52 72.

50:36 Uh, UTECH Inc. That’s Mattress of Cycling Company, $3,234. Verizon for inter internet access 1 71 55 and WB Mason for office supplies and printing forms. $90 and 65 cents. Thank you. Do you have this, uh, you want, uh, discuss? Yeah, so you guys wanna come up? Yeah. So this started with, um, she park and rec, um, they’re kinda looking at, you know, they obviously the dog park falls under them. Um, so they wanted to take a look at that. We also have our a CO, our animal control officer here, uh, to talk about it. Um, so everybody has a copy of the current regulations and what is proposed.

51:22 Okay. Um, the mass environment.

51:31 Hi, I’m Shelly Ian, recreation Parks commissioner. So you can probably know Betsy at this point. Betsy Kruger, animal control officer. So just to give you a little background of how this started, um, residents came to me about how upset the event about, um, let’s just say the 5% of dog owners that don’t follow the laws. I mean, generally speaking to put out there, most people do the right thing. But we have, um, a problem like on our playing fields with programming and people not picking up, um, waste. And then we have kids on there. It, it’s, it’s much more significant than people would think. And the people not throwing, you know, bags in woods and, you know, just not really doing the right thing. So a lot of constituents have come to me, um, as well

52:16 as some of our staff that, um, are saying that it’s, it’s the things not being enforced and um,

52:29 Well I’ll just leave it at that. So it’s very difficult in the town that we’re in because the very, you know, we only have four square land miles. We have 3,500 dogs with one dog officer. So, um, and a dog park that’s not handicap accessible and very difficult to get to. So there’s nothing about land to build a new one. It’s hard to get the one that we have. Um, and we have people evading and, um, that’s where this started. So I met with Betsy, did some research, um, and found out that what some other people do, which is this, um, concept called Pooch Pass, which is where originally started. And that was uh, a system where you would charge a fee for, uh, dogs that um, were already licensed in town. They would get certain privileges for that and that take that pass would afford

53:15 to have dog waste stations and enhance, um, give her some help on the enforcement side so we could and obvious that extra privileges to come with that. Well, with all the research, the Participa particip participation of participation of that would not give enough funds of what I originally thought. I thought we’d have at least 50% participation and Swamp Scott Salem and the other areas that I spoke to, it was like less than 5%. So we had to sort of table that. Um, and doing more research, I found that there’s a lot of issues with Mass Environmental and dogs on beaches that were a much bigger issue than I ever thought. So that’s when I brought Tom in and said, this sounds like this is animal control and rec and park and board of health all together.

54:01 ‘cause it touches all of us. And would someone be interested, like in a collaboration to see if we can at least get something working in the right direction while we’re trying to figure out what’s next as far as a pooch pass type of opportunity. Um, and so if you look at the bylaws, most of them have not been updated since 2007. Um, the fines are less than a parking ticket. Um, so there’s not a lot to scare people to keep their dogs on leash to pick up their waste. Um, and I find them to be very unclear. Um, they’re very typical. Three, consider myself of average intelligence and I’m reading up five or six times and trying to figure out where can I take my dog if I wanna be a responsible dog owner. So now we’re at the point of let’s just get to a first

54:48 and work on clarification and understanding what people can do and can’t do. Increasing the fines for those folks that don’t care and do whatever they wanna do. Um, it’s also gives some awards and privileges to our responsible pet owners, of which I think most people in the community are. And opening up some options at Riverhead Beach where um, we could sort of make another quasi dog park, um, legally. ‘cause right now, technically you cannot be on Riverhead Beach off leash with your dog. So that’s where we are now. And we started all this before Betsy’s unfortunate situation a few months ago, and she was attacked with a dog that was off leash. So it was kind of timely that this all was sort of happening

55:34 and in process even before that happened. So if you were to look at the first four pages in this document, um, it’s the current laws, there’s three, there’s four, I believe four bylaws on the, um, the current warrant. Three we’re looking for suggestion. Um, just to digress a minute. We have met with Andrew on this. We’ve met with Peter James. Jamie Block’s been a part of all of this. So we’ve had all these meetings, probably four or five of them to get to a starting point of we sort of, you know, we all agree that this is a good starting place. So the first two pages of the changes we’re making, which you’ll see are very slight. It’s mostly on the fines and it’s mostly clarification. Um, and then page three and four is as we, the articles that we would like to put forth.

56:21 And ultimately what we’re looking for is to have a try board sponsorship. So it would be at the warrant, uh, at town meeting. So it would be board of Health with recreational parks and the police department all working on this together since it does touch all of us. So You’re looking for support at town meeting? Yes. Because we’d like to propose these, um, articles And, and what you’re looking at is just the a letter A on each of the items? No, no. So if you look at, in the first two pages, you’ll see at the top 13.5 is the first, um, article currently on the books. So running it large, that’s what is currently the bylaw. When you go through and you see a cross out, that’s the suggested change

57:08 that the working group has, um, agreed on would be a, a good thing to implement at this point. Um, so I’ve done that. And then the second article is 13.9, which is disposal Fecal Matter. And then the third article is 1311, which is the seasonal prohibition of dogs from certain areas, which the current long the books is ridiculously confusing. Mm-hmm. Um, and so that’s what’s there. So I wanted to kind of show you, this is where we are. This is where we’re working towards. So you can see kind of where we started and and where we are now. And then if we were to take all those crossouts out where we are on page three and four is what we would say when we’re going to give this, this would be the article. We are the new article we are proposing to happen. So you to take all the crossouts out and put in the new language.

57:54 That’s what we would suggest.

57:58 But one thing I did learn was the Andrew pointed out he was a great resource in this, that currently our bylaw does not address the difference between bathing beaches, dogs on bathing beaches and non bathing beaches. And it is a big deal apparently to have a dog on a bathing beach. Um, that’s why I gave you that handout from Mass Environmental Department and their recommendations. So our bylaws are not, since they have not been updated since 2007, are not current with what the recommendations are from the state, from a health and safety standpoint. And the reason why Riverhead would be opened up is because it is a non-VA beach, which is, that’s the reason for that. I think Little Harbor doesn’t allow the dogs to go out into the water, not even out to the island there

58:44 or some, ‘cause I isn’t that the board of trustees mm-hmm. Reservations. It’s not even like Marblehead The marble. I know someone down there that has difficulty about the Doug.

59:00 So do you want I do you have the, the language that you’re gonna propose. So I know it’s the first time you’ve seen it. So the first two pages are, so you could see the work, the working, and how we kind of, what we, what we’re, what’s on the books now and the exact changes we’re making, which frankly aren’t that much. The biggest changes are the fines. We Just see that. Okay. And then page three and four is what we’re proposing. What we are proposing to be the new warrant articles at town meeting. We share three ions. Yes. You have four. You have four. And the two that you gave tonight, I had three from Maybe So would What? So the bottom right is a numbered page. What, what page are you missing? One. Oh, lemme see. Then Maybe you got, oh, Here, you know what? I’ve got the four line.

59:46 My 11-year-old stapled them. So maybe she, uh, Well the staple one Gotta put Her to work. You know, it’s probably double sided. You know what, look, it’s not No, this is what I got tonight, but I do have the full page. There you go. So you see that the third and fourth page is where we are now as far as The one she says Starting forward. But again, I was, I was shocked. I had no idea that the beaches were such a, a major deal. Which is obviously why, one of the reasons we had to bring in you folks ‘cause it’s sort of your jurisdiction. So you’ve talked with, with Yeah, no, Shelly, you did a ton of work and, uh, it’s unfortunate that the pooch pass didn’t work out because you, I know you looked really hard into that and it was a good idea and it’s too bad that it, you know, the numbers came out to be what they are.

1:00:31 ‘cause it was a good idea. Um, I I I think that the, um, amounts raising them are more than appropriate and cleaning up the language. I think anyone that’s not a lawyer appreciates that. You know? So just that your average person can read it. Um, so I, you know, I, I fully, you know, I fully support it. So I’m, I’m on board. Um, and you wanted to take, so this part, you still want to question the red on page three there is that, where was it suggested that the warning option be taken out? Yeah. Because almost we’re gonna take that out just because, you know, you don’t wanna put in the law like a speeding ticket. You know, you don’t, you don’t have to give a warning. Yeah, No, I agree. So it’s Just what discretion of, of, I think, I think the logic on that. Yeah,

1:01:17 Makes sense. Makes it takes, I mean, she will probably be a reasonable person to give a warning, but if someone’s, Yeah. If someone just is completely naive to it, you know? Right. And and you haven’t seen them five times before, you know, that’s fair to just Exactly. What’s the warrant here when this have to be ready? January 29th. Yeah, January 29th. So It’s, if we, if we don’t have a meeting that week, which I have on my calendar, but, um, which we’ll discuss in a few minutes. Yep. But, um, we need to do this right now. That’s Correct. But I mean, you know, so, you know, to quickly jump to the next meeting date. So we had talked about, I think it was actually at the beginning was January 28th. But I think the date, because that was the Tuesday. Think that works. That was the Tuesday. But I think the date that works,

1:02:03 ‘cause you don’t that way this you don’t have a conflict would be to make it the fourth Monday of the month. So this month it would be January 27th. Well, Let me ask Dr. Zaro a question. Do you meet on the fourth Tuesday of the month for the charter committee? Mm-hmm. So that’s the regular date? Mm-hmm. Okay. So we have to go to a Monday because you’re, I guess We, the third Monday, third Tuesday if we want or to, But, but sort of back to back is a little crazy. All right. Found And the, and the charter committee now looks like it’s going to run over and in another year. So it’s prevalent real. Yes. Realistically, uh, I will be busy on that day. Okay. So are you available the first Monday y of the, the,

1:02:49 The fourth Monday? Um, yeah. Yeah. As far as I, you know, I’m looking at the 27th here. You know, it might be something I suspect we will have to get used to, but um, yeah, as far as I’m looking in my future meetings, I, you know, things I have, uh, it’s, it looks fine to me. It’s the fourth Monday. So that’s the 27th and needs to do the 29th, right? That’s correct. I think that I’d expect you to make a decision or I thought you’d wanna deliberate and look at it and it digest it To look at it. Because the first thing I see, I mean, have these fees and I had recommended to higher fees for the transfer station. Now I see things that are greater than that and I’d like to discuss that. Oh, it’s a fine, it’s not a fee. It’s a fine. It’s a, it’s still an all, it’s a, it’s, it’s so, So obviously when you’re studying fines, you’re trying

1:03:35 to prohibit the activity. Yeah. Make pe make people aware that all right, first offense is a hundred dollars. So if it was $25, there is definitely a group of people who are like, I’m gonna pay that all day long. Right? Yeah. So I don’t $25 gonna do nothing. It’s not the 25, it’s, it’s, it’s the 300 and the 500 that, right. But that’s for your second and your third Offenses. I mean, these are the same, these are the same cases. There are a lot of people in this town that will continuously violate the lease laws and don’t care about 25 or $50. They don’t care. Well, I’m, I’m not, I’m, I’m, let’s skip a hundred. Fine. I’m looking at the 305. Well then why is you, why are you violating the law three times? It’s like, why are you just, I don’t even Own a dog. So I,

1:04:20 I think the point of making it So Severe is to stop. Right? What The point is to Make it, 90% of the time I write a warning. A lot of times people have a legitimate excuse the fence blew down home, landscape left the fence open. I mean, people are actually horrified that their dogs are loose and very grateful when we picked ‘em up and like, thankful. And then there’s the other people that just wanna strut around town with these dogs off le and they just don’t care For a second. These numbers are the same numbers that we give to, to businesses for offenses with, with us selling cigarettes to, uh, miners. I have to take a look. Our ours might be even more severe at this Point. I think that these Yeah, that’s just my opinion. Yep. I’d like to see, you know, 200, 400 is just, it’s, I don’t know. It’s just,

1:05:07 You’d like to see the second offense, Uh, the first offense I’m fine with. Um, and you do a warning, is that right? The warnings first. No Warning of discretion. Yeah, just like a speeding ticket. They can decide whether they should or shouldn’t so she can Can can you explain that a little More? Sure. So there is a warning option now, or we’re Not, there’s not a warning option now. So the implication is if the first time there’ll be a hundred dollars fine, but the officer is there can a, has personal discretion. Yes. Also, So implicit, we basically leaving it out says, we’re lucky to have officers with good judgment. Correct. I I’m, I’m, I’m okay with that. The other, The other thing we were just told that, um,

1:05:56 there are many people that don’t care about a 50, do 25 or $50 fine because they can afford it. But there were all, there are others that can’t. And that’s what I was told when it was with, with the transfer station. But those, Those are very, those are very different. I mean, I don’t think we should, I don’t think we should complain fees and fines. Yeah. Well I still feel that it’s, it’s money out of your pocket. And there are some people, maybe working people. The dog gets out and they have to pay a hundred dollars and it’s, that’s a lot of money. Again, if they don’t, I mean, I had someone today, their dog got out, it was an accident. He dug under the fence. So, you know, we discussed how to fix the problem so it doesn’t happen again. And then there’s other people that are taking their dog for a walk and sometimes they have a leash. Sometimes they don’t even bring a leash, they don’t care. I understand that. Those are the people

1:06:41 And I’m worried about the other people that go to work and get right. A salary and then they have to pay a hundred dollars if, like you just said the dog got over what Percentage of time. That’s a very good point. What percentage of times would you say you see someone that you give a warning first over a fine? First I give most to everybody a warning. I mean, I’m, you know, and She’s the only other $25 fine at that, right? Yeah. I mean, like, I listen to what people have to say. I mean, it depends on what people have to say. I mean, like, if it’s a legitimate thing, I don’t pick up their dog all the time. I mean, it’s like a lot of people, I own a dog and it’s like, you know, if the kids left the fence open or it was a legitimate excuse and then there’s, you know, um, how many times you, you know, the next time it’s like, you know, that was an accident.

1:07:27 Don’t wanna happen again and fix the problem. How are we fixing the problem? Some people have, you know, dogs that get into, you know, just more destructive or, you know, it’s not intentional. This is for intentional agree to speak people that are, that are intentionally doing, you know, breaking. In Other words, you’re not gonna give the feet of people that repeatedly have unintentional problems. I mean, if you were an one ‘cause you weren’t fixing your own problem, it’s like then you’d wanna be like, Hey, you really gotta, it only flies so many times. Yeah. I’m wondering, I Mean, I’ve had some dogs that literally jump second floor windows, you know, it’s like, Do you think it’s a fair amount that finds,

1:08:12 I think The offense is significant and therefore a high dollar amount is fine. I, and if we seem to be sensitive, uh, to people who might not be able to afford it. I, I, I think we ought to be creative about the people who, for whom money doesn’t matter. Would public embarrassment work? Should we think their names? Well it’s funny, inden many parts of Europe, people think that’s pretty tough. Like we could do what they’re doing in Denmark where they just a fe no, a fecal test. You get your dog license, you have to submit a fecal sample and they pick up the fecal sample and they give you like a $10,000 fine. I mean, there’s no joke there. So this is, this is Meyer compared to what’s going on in Europe right now. Yeah. So they do do the fecal in Toronto. We, we looked into that to actually establish that in Massachusetts.

1:08:57 Unfortunately we’re not able to do that. Um, but we were looking to have people submit a DNA sample for each, uh, dog license so we could track it all down. We we’re really tired of this. As others Have suggested that to me on the Street, If you walk down the rail trail, you walk down the rail trail, the pave tracks, excuse me, you’ll see I’m a dog owner too. You’ll see dog bags of waste strewn everywhere. It’s outta control. Hey, these people Have a bag. It and barrel makes no Sense. Not not down on the rail. That was what we were trying to do with Pooch Pass is pay for, uh, dog waste stations in 26 areas in town. But we’re not gonna have the revenue for it. So we have to find a way to get the revenue and then this is step A until we can, you know, possibly do that.

1:09:43 But no, we don’t wouldn’t it be And swung? But they’ve put the bags and little trash receptacles. I see the Bags. We have the bags. Well, yeah. So we, we provide bags, mutts to park and rec for, you know, their locations and stuff like that. As a responsible pet owner, you have to collect the waste and dispose of it in appropriate manner. Just like your own trash. Yeah. That means that I have to bring it home, throw it in my trash, or bring it to an appropriate town barrel that we can dispose of this. This doesn’t mean that you can fling in the woods, put it in a storm drain, put it in somebody else’s trash barrel, put it in somebody’s back of somebody’s truck. You have to be, if you’re gonna own a dog, you need to be responsible for It. Yeah. It’s not at your convenience.

1:10:28 It’s, Yeah. So just to give you an example, Dean Ner, who takes care of Abbott Hall landscapes, Abbott Paul for he donates his time to the town, has for many years, one Friday last summer, he called me, he had to pick up his employees 16 bags of waste at Abbott Hall on a Friday. Disgusting. And it happens more frequently. And again, we have to preface this with saying 95% of the people do everything right. They’re responsible, they do what they’re supposed to do. Just like with everything. Laws aren’t made for people that do everything. Right. Right. And, and fines aren’t made for that. There’s A bigger part to that too. Dean’s cutting that grass for free. Right. Is he gonna keep cutting it for free if every time his lawnmower runs over a bunch of bags, it sprays dog crap all under his machinery? No. And in employee spaces, like our, our staff is taking care

1:11:16 of the lawns in town and it’s flinging back at them. ‘cause people are bringing ‘em to a field. It, it’s, it’s bigger. Bigger, it’s a bigger problem than you would think. Well You are also talking about people of means, and most people means it may not even be the dog owners doing it. What they, A lot of people, many people have dog walkers that they employ. Mm-hmm. I don’t know if you’re, you know Sure that it’s, they have to be, they have to Correct. But with that job also comes responsibility of picking up after It does. But I mean maybe these, maybe these are not the dog owners. And I’ve noticed that. And I think what you read through it. I know ‘cause you just saw it. You might need it. We can obviously you talk about the files don’t have to Things because I’d like to look through it and, and said tonight you’d like us to have a vote. Well, I mean, you, you know, I just wanna make sure that you,

1:12:02 you’re gonna meet on the 27th and that you could agree to, Well, I don’t know about anyone else here, but I have a dog walker during the I do too. Like three days a week, whatever it is. And if I ever got a complaint that my dog walker wasn’t picking up after my dog, they would no longer be my dog walker. Well, you’ve got a Note that information. No, but I mean that this is what would happen. They, they’d be getting down their whole business would be, and you know, the dog walker would be like, oh, this isn’t even my dog. Doesn’t matter. That’s their job and or else they’re not gonna have a job. So that’s, you know, that I don’t think, you know, whether it’s their dog or not, that’s irrelevant. Well, I know, but they may be more careless is what I’m saying. I don’t think they would be, ‘cause their job’s at stake, I think they’d actually be more careful. If anything, I think dog walkers are actually

1:12:48 way more careful because they won’t even let dogs, they’re walking near other dogs because they don’t want that liability of, you know, so I think dog walker, actual dog walkers are probably prone to picking up more than owners. Good. I think once you, I’m, I’m, we don’t have to vote on it right now. I’d like you to understand and digest the Yeah. The material so you’re comfortable with it. I just wanna make sure we can get it in before the 29th. So if, if it’s something we agree to do together. Um, so that was my only concern and well, you know what, It could happen right now because I’m the only one that’s questioning it unless I can ask my board if they could drop Down. So, so the other piece is that, you know, this is a town meeting warn article. Mm-hmm. This is gonna be debated on town meeting full. Yeah. So, so we wanna presenting the united front. Oh yeah, definitely. If, if I would would like to drop the 300 to 200

1:13:34 and the 500 to say even I know three 50 or something, 400 I’d be, I’d be accepting. But I just think those numbers are glaring. Um, so I do have a letter from Don May, um, that I’m gonna read. Um, I’m not a dog owner, but I know they make the world a happier place and most dog owners in town do keep their dog leached in public. But those who unleash their dogs create issues for money. I walk the woods a steer swamp two to three times per week. And it’s not unusual to encounter unleashed dogs occasionally running at top speed toward leash. Dogs or people. And even the friendly ones are a problem when they jump on people or smaller dogs. I often carry something that I could use to physically separate myself from a dog that’s running toward or jumping on me.

1:14:19 I suggest the new loss specifying not only parks and beaches, but similar spaces like Steer Swamp, Wyman Woods, Hawthorne Pond, et cetera. I do believe that being specific coupled with larger fines could be a deterrent to unleashing dogs. I personally know dog owners and Steer Swamp who would appreciate this as well. Appreciate your consideration and I’m happy to provide more information that may be helpful. Did Mr. Rogers Young, uh, Mr. Rogers send a letter earlier too? I’d have to go back and take a look. Uh, Dave Rogers son. I’d have to go back and take a look. Remember that? Did you see that one? No. Serious. Yeah. Always. Probably. Yeah too. No, He sent, he sent something about, um, brown Island. The Jones. No, talking About partying. He

1:15:05 was, yeah. Ups. Yeah. Um, so at the very bottom of page four, um, leash dogs are lo loud at Chandler. Chandler, Huby Park, crocker Park, Fort S Sewell, fountain Park, seaside Fitness Trails, lead Mills, lower Str seat Green, uh, I’m gonna say the rail Trail, year round, steer swamp, blah blah, blah. Add Steer Swamp. Do we need to add, what was the other one? Hawthorne Pond. Can you say that that little ber one is not up. Um, WMAN Woods and Hawthorne. No. Hawthorne Pond and Wman Woods. Oh No. When she said a little Oh, You finished? Um, yeah, we should probably include Wman Woods and Hawthorne Pond

1:15:54 In case anybody wants to add a subtract. But like, these are the areas of town that I patrol. So like, let’s see if like, we’ve got the writing right. Devereux Beach, castle Rock Seaside Park and the tennis courts. Hammond Park, Chandle Hub, Gulf Weight, Parker Park, Fort s Sewell and the beach back. Beach Gas House, beach, Red’s Pond, old Burial Hill, fountain Park, grace Oliver’s, stair Swamp, stransky Park and the Beach. Waterside Cemetery or Playground Village School Fields. Robinson’s farm, the high school field backed by the rail trail. Getches Field lead Mills, the rail trail from Lafayette to Westfield Drive. Westfield Drive to Village. Village to Maverick. Maverick. Hungry Hump jcc. Um, hugs.

1:16:40 And that’s basically did space for one person. 3,500 dogs. You Got real pond? Huh? Where Pond? Uh, so far somebody hasn’t called me there, but I’m sure they’ll speak down. She’s calling you. You should, yeah, we should add. So Dan, that’s why I wanted to make sure. I mean like, but these are the places like people actively call to and I go out to, and that’s why I wanna make sure I’m making there, uh, places that I’ve missed, missed, or haven’t been called to. So I would feel more comfortable getting it for like, like I have these written up right here. So for you to make a motion on these that we’re gonna be like handwriting things in. Yeah. I’m not comfortable with that. Oh, agree to be correct. So, and Park and Rex voting on this?

1:17:25 Um, on Wednesday or we next Wednesday the 22nd. Okay. So I could revamp these. Excuse me. Yep. That’s Before us, correct. So, um, we could, I can update these with what we just said. Yep. Present them at our meeting on the 22nd. Yep. Um, and then they’ll be, you know, they’ll say yes, I’ll do it together and then bring it to folks ahead of time so you can read it. Um, it would just be the location changes unless we wanna talk about the, um, fines. Um, and then you guys could vote on it however you feel Dean fit on the 27th and we can get it in for the 29th. If it’s the, I just think that the 300, 500 is the hot sheet. That’s fine. We can locate, We bring that to the park and rec of the Meetings. Oh, they had it higher. They had it higher Because they’re not fees. They’re fine. They’re

1:18:10 Fine. They’re fine. Supposed to, it’s supposed to, it Doesn’t matter. Money. Like what On If you keep your dog on a leashes? No, but that would be like tobacco and fine. So high with tobacco that the owners of the establishment stop selling to underage individuals. That’s the good one. That’s the idea. Stop the activity And like, you know, like, uh, both way terms I’ll be out for, but I’m not convinced that I’ll be willing to be on Voting. What would you um, like I think maybe 200 and 300, 2, 4, 2. So 1, 2, 3. Well, what I learned from our conversation about the fees and the transfer station is we have good staff

1:18:58 that supports committees in this town. And I will vote for the staff recommendation unless the board has overwhelming data to be different. And your opinion, any one of our opinions shouldn’t overrule staff. Okay. Well I think that’s, I don’t understand these being lower because like a lot of different people need to move a transfer station and for various reasons and it’s not like to make it a privilege because a lot of people, everyone should be able to have access to the transfer station, but keeping your dog on a leash or picking up after your dog is a responsibility. And if you’re not responsible and you’re breaking the law repeatedly, there should be higher.

1:19:43 Fine. That’s the difference between like a fine and a fee. Yeah. Like you wanna try to keep the fees reasonable because everyone should have access mm-hmm. To the transfer station. But a fine to people that have gone out, purchased an animal, adopted an animal, rescued an animal or whatever, and they’re taking on that responsibility, but then they need to abide by the laws that come with that. And some of us are paying thousands of dollars for these animals. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, but I mean, you look at like a littering fee. One of those go up to 10 grand sometimes, you know, it’s like just don’t litter. Right. You’re all set. Like this is the same thing. Just Maybe A dog hit by a car is like a $10,000 bill. I mean it’s not like 20 years ago if a dog got hit by a car and a dog that bites another dog and has to go to emergency vet care.

1:20:30 I mean, if you go into one of these emergency vet hospitals over the weekend, you have to give ‘em a credit card and you’re looking at thousands of dollars. Not My family ever heard that I was lowering fees about a dog. They would be just Shark and you’re, you’re almost helping people out. ‘cause your dog bites and bites a person, you’re losing your house, you’re, you know, you’re gonna get sued. It’s, it’s over. So you’re almost helping them out by making it like, But it’s also traumatic. But to your point about the track, like the legal dumping fees had to go so high ‘cause that was the only way to prevent illegal dumping. And even then it still occurs. Yeah. What’s the It can be as high as $10,000 per, You know, per per incident. Yeah. Wow. Maybe we should think about that. It depends

1:21:18 The situation and and what they’re disposing of. But yeah, it Should have been here when there was nothing at Lakes Hill Road. Everybody was dumping there. Oh Yeah, that’s exactly right. That’s why someone here then. No. Um, but yeah, you have these dumping sites and so yeah, these signs start to go, you know, illegal dumping $10,000 fine if we get you. Mm-hmm. I, I’d still recommend 1, 1, 1, uh, two and three. And I know I’m on voted, but I can feel that way. Well I’m gonna, I can bring that back to our meeting too. And I think, you know, we have, have to agree together and so we can, um, I Would like to move, we accept the proposal that’s been given to us and not again, my principal now from now on will be to support the staff who come and I would, I at least move that we accept pages three

1:22:06 and four, um, tonight with the provision that if there’s a change in Park and Rex, they come back to us, I’ll vote on that. But also give give one the recommendation that there was one discussion that I had. Yes. Yeah. I’ll vote on your motion. Second first though. Yeah. Nos. Did you make a second? No. Yeah, I second that. Just a point of clarification. Is it okay? ‘cause Andrew wanted to add a couple more clarifications on location in town. Yes, we could have those. Okay. I just wanted make sure. ‘cause so I’m not really worried about the, about the, where I said, um, down at, um, for Beach Way because I have a friend who actually her house is on the market because, um, she said the police down people, uh,

1:22:52 neighbors call, but her dog goes in out, walks out to the, at low tide, walks out to the island, prince Island. Yeah. And she’s had the police called three different times called you? No, she’s had a, someone from the, someone that doesn’t do the dogs, not the dog officer. So I know you’re affiliated with the police, but I mean, it wasn’t you.

1:23:20 So for the record, my motion is to approve Paige three and four, subject to additions, geographic dec deci additions that may be made and to any changes that might be made at the park and recs meeting, uh, coming this coming Wednesday. Okay. And I second That seconded. And, and I’ll, I’ll go in there as long as my concerns. Okay. And then I’ll bring, I’ll make sure I come to your meeting on the 27th and If You give, if you give me copies after your meeting next Wednesday. Yeah. Okay. Um, the other thing we should do is just quickly after next Wednesday, uh, get that off to town council. Um, Yeah, that’s already right in that we’ve been working on this. Yeah. Yep. Okay. Perfect. Excuse. Great. Thank, thank you very much. I bet

1:24:06 you didn’t think you’d me in that long. Thanks Laurie at all. Uh, So it was very informative. I do watch online every once in a while. So Even with the discussion uhhuh, that’s Important to delivery. Good. That all? Thank you very much. That’s Browns

1:24:25 swan send. Yeah, no, I’m just curious actually, I sent everybody to Swans Squad because they have Gonna table that. So I was hoping to have town council, um, weigh in on the responsibilities of the board, responsibilities of the department. I was hoping to have their opinion for us tonight. I do not have that. Um, as soon as I have that in the next couple of days, I will get that to the board and we can continue the discussion at our next meeting. Oh, Sorry. So we’re on to uh, uh, public comments. So the only, only other piece that I want to state, you know, since we’re talking about the board and stuff like that, is that there is an increase in normal virus and covid people need to take appropriate cautions. Always remember to wash your hands if you are a sick stay

1:25:12 home, um, wear a mask. We do have covid tests at the office. Um, we are getting smaller amounts in the last couple of times. Um, they, we do have quite a few people calling about them, so we try to keep some stocks in the office. We don’t keep everything out on the table. So if you don’t see them there, please ask. Hopefully we’ll have some in stock, but we’re always trying to make sure we have some in stock. Uh, we also try to provide them to the, um, council on Aging, uh, for senior residents to make sure that they have access to them. Uh, but if you have any questions about that, please give us a call. Uh, but yeah, the cases of Norovirus is, are high. Uh, the, you know, COVID is definitely around and we’ll continue to be around and we’re seeing cases of that as well.

1:25:58 Yeah. And I thank you for the, uh, for the test kits because I have people coming to my host for New Year’s Eve and a, a large group of people and I had them all to come pick up a test and there were two people that tested positive and did not come to my house. So it, it worked. Yeah. So thank you. Yep, thank you. The community, federal government, whoever send to us. Yeah, I appreciate it. No, I can see. So we get ‘em from Massachusetts. It’s uh, state. Okay, but not fed, not paid for by Feds anymore. I’m not really. It might be ARPA money that’s been used. Yeah, Yeah, yeah. Um, any, They’re eight, $8 a piece on Amazon

1:26:45 because I bought some And they’re $20 a piece at Walmart. Right, that’s what I brought it up. Yeah, Because it’s uh, they’re expensive So we’re trying to take that barrier away to buy providing ‘em. Of course, Of course. But, and I think it’s important to just stay safe because you don’t know who’s, uh, compromised and people may not look compromised, but you don’t know what’s going on in their health and um, Or in the Household. Or in the household. Right. And and your Immune system. Yep. So, um, with the small group that we have left, any public comment? Uh, good. A couple of things. Um, you’re right. Marty’s a a real super asset, you know, for all the agreed to get up there.

1:27:31 He always seems very friendly. He is with me and I’ve seen him with our people. He’s the right guy for that. She’s like, Kay. Yep. Um, with the dog situation, every morning I go for a four mile walk down around the older part of town and I’m always appalled the number of piles of crap that I find with the green bags that I see of one I know at Crocker Park is one little white box of one of the neighbors on his own. He put that box up and he build it periodically in facts. It would be nice if there was a spot for them to get rid of. You don’t have that many spots from around town. Well, it’s hard and obviously, you know, park and Rec does a great job. Um, there’s only so many barrels that they can, you know, And they don’t have enough.

1:28:16 Yeah. They’re, they, you know, same thing. The cost of collection for all that stuff is is pretty high. Um, and so they try, they try to do the best that they can. Andre depend upon the tide, they go out to both Browns Island, priest Island Walk, and there’s very rarely do I not see a dog or two out there. A lot of ‘em are just run free.

1:28:39 It’s not the responsible dog owners. It’s true by everything.

1:28:47 Well I think it’s the nature of, uh, of society that people are In the tall park. Yeah. They can run free. I I I don’t have the dog. That’s correct. So a fenced in dog park or the fenced in dog park? Yes, they can be off the street. It’s become very unaccessible. Where is it? Yeah, up above uh, green Street. Yeah, the old Skateboard. Yeah, church. Yeah. The owner of the land behind it made it very difficult for anyone to get a parked car up there. Yeah, they’re under construction right now up there. So yeah, access is nearly impossible. And so yeah, the, the park and Rec are looking at alternative location for dog parks across the community.

1:29:29 Um, that’s it on the public comment. The last thing is for some of this, uh, money saving efforts for the transfer station. I don’t know, it’s it’s good. You, uh, look into the vocational school. They’ve done other projects here in town and a lot of other towns have utilized ‘em. There might be something up there. Yeah. So we, we’ve talked about using them for building the swap shop. Uh, um, again, that’s like further down, um, on the list of items that we wanna do. To me that would be a great, great project for them. Or even building like the, uh, the office where K is now type of thing. They’ve done those in other towns I’ve seen. Yeah. So sometimes the, one of the harder things with using the vocational school is that it it extends the construction period.

1:30:15 So sometimes it is a great resource and I would love to use them as much as possible. Um, it’s just in a tight location and we need that construction when it’s going on. It’s Best to be of a spot that Yeah. Too. And that doesn’t work. I understand that, But I would love to use them. No, the tech is a very, you know, it’s a great asset as well And as soon we can get cameras up there to show where a lot of people just throw their stuff that should go through the scale house. So by the big plastic, the bigger they Relocated it. Yeah. Um, so we do have cameras. It’s gonna be a huge change. So when we go to the Stickless system and the car, ‘cause those are licensed bike reader cameras, and so I will be able

1:31:01 to track cars much easier than I am now. It’ll be in the system. It will be in the system. Yeah. When is that? Sorry? Like use of Box, um, three. Yeah, so we’re looking to install them early spring. Um, so we’re waiting on, um, fiber optics to be installed. Okay. Um, that’s gonna be installed, um, February, March, and that’s when the canvas would be, uh, connected and stuff like that. And that’s when you’re gonna change the entrance also. Okay. Okay. Andrea, I saw two raised hands online. I’ve got two announcements.

1:31:48 Jack, you should be able to ask a question at this point. Good evening. Can you hear me? We can hear you, yep. Oh, great. Um, I’ll spare you the video. I’m out for a walk, but, um, it, it’s always a great meeting when we hear from the counseling center and, and Terry and Ruth. Um, uh, but I wanted to talk to tonight about, uh, Dr. Thomas Aro came to the Marblehead Rotary Club a little over a month ago and spoke about, uh, a lot about public health and the benefits of the, the survey that has been talked about over the past couple of meetings. Um, we had a subsequent meeting with, uh, Nancy Gwen and I and Toro and Joanne Miller. And tonight I’m happy to say that the Marblehead Rotary Club

1:32:37 is, uh, proud to keep funding, uh, helping to fund initiatives for public health and Marblehead. And we, uh, voted to donate $10,000 to the cause. Oh, you, good luck, Cole. You see you did a good job. Now you know what it does. It makes it go teacher. It makes you wanna go back and do war. Hey, look, I I believe in this, this, this, You Well, that’s obvious Tom. And, and uh, and Helene did a great job. Yeah. He’s now, he’s now he’s a trained uh, uh, solicitor. That’s right. That’s right. But, uh, thank you very much. Thank you so much. Thanks Jack. Wow. That that made his year. Yeah.

1:33:24 So we all know I at my son’s wedding last year when I was week, I can’t say it made my year.

1:33:33 No, that’s it for that. That was it. Alright, so two other things. Uh, one the state of the town is February 5th. Yeah. So state of the town is February 5th and That’s the kickoff to the budget season. Uh, that’s up at Abbott Hall. That is from sixth to seven 30. And I will be there February 6th. Yep. February 5th. Fifth. Fifth and six to seven 30. And the other thing is, um, the, the fourth Monday we’re going to be, uh, having meetings as needed. Uh, I had suggested, um, a three month trial, uh, and I had a discussion with the director and Andrew thinks that it’s best to put it on the calendar and if we don’t need it to postpone, I think that’s a better way to do it. You do? Yeah. Okay. Another night. Another, another thing tonight, not another night.

1:34:21 And let’s get that straight.

1:34:29 Yeah, absolutely.