Finance Committee: April 28, 2025

Transcript captured from MHTV’s Vimeo auto-captioning. No speaker labels; proper names and dollar figures occasionally misheard. Click any timecode to jump to that moment in the source video.

0:06 Meetings starting at seven 30, so amen. Yep. Get going as soon as we can. So I’ll call our meeting to order. Um, this is actually an official public warrant hearing night two. There’s just a few articles this year that we have to revisit, um, because of various number of reasons, probably mostly because they weren’t ready last week or two weeks, couple weeks ago. Um, so we’ll get right into it. Alicia will be presenting on screen. Um, the first item of action is Article four. Unpaid accounts, I think. Yes. An unpaid account came in late. Correct. There was just one invoice from Smith Marine under the select board that I added for 7,300, bring in the total to 28,668 and 72 cents for unpaid bills.

0:55 And it related to the, it related to the will. Correct. Which is wild. Um, what’s the new total? 28,006. 68.72. So everybody remembers what these are. These are fiscal year 24, closed last six 30. This is a standard article where there’s unpaid accounts that come in after six 30 and they need to be appropriated through this warrant article to be paid out of 2025 fund. Right. So we’re just adding 7,000 to that first one last invoice that came in between warrant. Hearing that one. Any questions?

1:39 I’d like to make a motion to recommend twenty eight thousand six hundred sixty eight thousand seventy two dollars for Article four unpaid accounts. Second. Um, Sarah? Yes. Yes. Lec? Yes. Pat? Yes. Sim Yes. Eric? Yes. Lindsay? Yes. Mike? Yes. Michael Jenko? Yes.

2:06 Alright. So we’re gonna have an update from Alicia Yes. At the end here for Article six through eight, the Capital Articles. Um, but I wanna skip over that for now ‘cause we have some folks that are here, um, to make some presentation. So we’ll come back to that at the end. So I’m just scrolling through to make sure I don’t miss any

2:29 Just an FYI article 19 through 21. Those are the collective bargaining. They’re still not official, but I think one might have been maybe agreed upon, maybe not signs today, but we may have to vote on those next week on the floor of town meeting and make our recommendation there. Um, but it’s possible that one or more than one will be actually signed by that. So there’s progress being made, but we still can’t vote on them tonight.

2:58 Um, I guess I’ll pause the article 22, the balanced budget. We’re not changing. Um, but did the Board of Health wanna provide a quick update? We’re not gonna reboot a number, but I, I had that marked on my agenda if you wanted to speak tonight about you We’re all here. Yeah. I mean, it can just be quick. I mean, yeah. I think most people understand what’s going on, but I don’t think we’ve talked about it on public meetings. Right. Perfect.

3:32 Andrew? Yes.

3:41 Good evening. Good evening.

3:46 I have it up on the screen too. All people. Yeah. I’m trying to pull it up so I can, So the board voted to defund the, uh, the assistant director of the waste department. Right. Uh, and then they’re just reallocating those funds into trash disposal. Right. So if you recall, I think Andrew had requested in the earlier budget process from Alicia, a certain number of their total budget, which included this position and probably the higher number for, um, the trash disposal. Um, Alicia worked with Andrew to refine that budget. This is my understanding. Yep. Um, and some of that budget was then to be funded from the revolving account. Correct. But the, you know, geography as to where

4:33 that now sits is shifting from this salaries line that had this newly created position is no longer being created and that budget will go back to the trash line, which was Yeah. Waste disposal. Yep. Would’ve still exists, would’ve been funded by revolving. That’s correct. Um, we’ve already voted the bottom line of the budget, so we don’t need to revote, but I think it’s been a topic that’s been going over, so we, we thought we would discuss it. Yeah. It’s just an accounting change. It didn’t change any dollar value. Right. Um, I think I’ve got the gist of the situation, so I don’t necessarily have questions, but if you guys have anything to add, um, no, I I would just like to say that, um, it was Andrew’s,

5:19 um, thought that, and it was necessary to have this new assistant director at the transfer station. Right. In fact, we have, uh, had a situation today that, um, somebody did, was not able to come into the, uh, into the, um, transfer station to go, come, come to work. And Andrew had to, um, make some adjustments because he and the, uh, administrative assistant were the only people at the office here. ‘cause we had a person at the office on vacation. Right. And another one on sick leave today. And Andrew could not go over to the, the reason to have the, uh, assistant director was not just because of this one day issue. Right. Things are getting much busier. Yeah. I mean, the volume of, I mean, I’ve heard Angie talk about this before. Right.

6:05 But I just wanna show you that today there even was a situation that it would’ve been great to have somebody there. Right. And, um, we had to make the adjustments and because I think the climate, um, in the community with some salaries not adjusted, some contracts not, haven’t been decided yet, but decisions haven’t been made. I think that this is what we chose to do at this time. Yeah. For, for this year. Maybe revisit it next year. Mm-hmm. But I didn’t say that, but He bought,

6:38 And the board can choose to fund it through the waste revolving Oh, fair as well. Okay. That’s right. It won’t be my on my watch. Well, that’s right. Uh, last thing is, so obviously I speak speaking Sure. It was a decision that was not taken lightly. Right. Um, uh, I think there are at least two of us on the board who believe the process was f flawed. And the ultimate document that was submitted for the job has in at least in my mind, a policy flaw and a strategic weakness. So it would’ve benefited by a conversation at the board of health level. So the, the, the decision that we made was,

7:28 was a very well thought out one. Yep. And we understand how hard it is to make a budget. Right. But we owe it to the board and the town to make strategic policy decisions. Yeah, Yeah. Totally respect that. And unfortunately, there will be consequences of that. Um, and we, we will be short staffed for the next year until that position is filled until we have, you know, enough staff to support the operations. Right. How, how long has it been Since you had an assistant director? I’ve never had an assistant director.

8:05 But the, the work of the health and waste department has grown immensely. Correct. Because what I’ve heard over the years that, That is correct. Uh, we have been brand new operations as far as where you enter the facility now, where you exit. Uh, we have two new transaction hus. You have to do transactions both at the scale house and back in the recycling area. So that takes additional employees. Uh, we have a waste contract coming up that’s gonna take a lot of awful lot of time. Uh, there’s curbside collection that needs to be looked after, um, that needs to be evaluated and analyzed so we can make good decisions moving forward. Obviously the big piece in the next year is gonna be this waste contract. Right. Um, this collection contract. And we’re gonna have to work hand in hand with the finance department to take a look at this, how

8:53 it’s best gonna benefit the town. Um, we’re gonna have to work together for the next year. Yeah. Um, and so that’s gonna take up a considerable amount of my time as well For, forgive me for not remembering, but you don’t have any, uh, do you have grants who things out that could be an effective three A doesn’t pass? So I do have grants. Um, I have quite a few grants in the health department. My understanding is that the state’s not gonna go after those. Um, but that’s just our understanding at this point.

9:27 A question too, I appreciate you saying, you know, that potentially this could be something funded by the revolving Yep. Account. Do you think that is, you know, given that this position, you know, if it is implemented in the future, would be primarily on the waste department, is that really, do you think the best source of funding? So again, coming to the town for the Yeah. So again, we would analyze, so the idea of this deck here is looking at how the department operates, looking at how much commercial waste is done, analyzing the amount of time and the employees that are associated with that, and tag the waste revolving account with those expenses to try to, you know, the town shouldn’t be burdened by the commercial waste side. And so yeah, it, it does very well. And so that should support a lot of those opportunities and costs and that which should include employees.

10:16 Thank you. Yep. And we, uh, we, you mentioned the, uh, contract expiring. We talked about that in depth and I was actually, uh, I’m putting it into our letter to the town FinCon letter, so I’ll be reaching out to make sure I’ve got the right number. Yeah. So that, that was the last thing I wanted to talk to you about. So obviously we wanna make it, you know, during town meeting, we need to announce this Yeah. That this is the last year of this great beneficial contract Yeah. That we’ll be working together over the next year. Yeah, no, I, I just wanna Make sure one of us, I’m Not gonna cover it in depth, but I’m gonna mention it when we talk about the operating budget and what’s coming. And I can give, we can connect on a range of percentages. Right, exactly. That’s perfect. I just wanna make sure we Are Yeah, no, I, it’ll be in our letter too, as one

11:02 of the ma ‘cause we’re giving kind of a summary of that forecasting exercise we did. And, and it’s, it’s on its own line right there with salaries and wages on its own line town wide. So it’s a big, it’s a big cost that’s coming in the coming year especially. Thank you. Yep. All right. I don’t think we have anything to vote. Um, but thank you for the updates. Yep. And we appreciate, Thank you very much. Thank you.

11:24 Okay.

11:36 So yeah, the Mary Alley article 33, I think there’s a presentation. Yes.

11:47 Good evening. Uh, Logan Casey, I’m the sustainability Coordinator For the Town. Town. Hi. Um, yeah, Dan Wall. I’m with, uh, NB five engineers of a mechanical engineer for in Massachusetts. And, um, found, hired our for about three months hour, so to evaluate options and recommendations to install air conditioning in this building. And, um, and we did a complete study on that. Um, we presented to the Selectmen last week. I think they once suggested we come and talk to you today too. Uh, so we have a brief presentation we can go through. Yeah, Definitely. Um, And While I’m getting the presentation loaded,

12:36 I just wanted to plug that, Dan’s gonna get into the, the depths of it in a second. But, um, you know, this has been called the Maryal kind of HVAC project, but, um, as Dan will get into this does include a lot of different elements as well, too, to really improve the building in a, in a more holistic way. Um, you know, notably things like replacing the roof, which had been approved as a previous town article. Um, a full revamp of the current HVAC system we have, um, to include humidity cooling, which this building currently doesn’t have any cooling. Um, and, you know, uh, air ventilation to bring air from the outside, inside, which currently doesn’t exist. Um, and then some, you know, really basic things that, you know, will give this room even more access.

13:22 So, um, because of the cost of the project, we’ll be doing a DA improvements as part of it as well too. Um, things like the elevator down, the hall that hasn’t worked in a couple of decades would get replaced. Um, as well as more access. Um, so this accessible for meetings, um, as well as more accessible bathrooms. Um, and then finally, um, uh, as well as kind of getting rid of some of the hazardous materials that were identified of Dan’s report. So, um, with that, I’ll, I’ll, I’ll just say to you that, um, you know, this is a project that Alicia, our, or our great finance director has been leading. Um, but I’ve been involved with as the sustainability coordinator, um, making sure this project, um, also hits with the town’s goals, um, set out in article 45,

14:08 passed in 2018 at town meeting, um, that set out to get our town closer to 100% clean energy. Um, so this project as well too, kind of, that fits that as well. So, um, with that, I’ll, I’ll look Dan, grab, go right into that. Sure. Thanks. Um, so thanks. Yeah. First slide here. You know, just a little history on the building. It’s previously a hospital. We think it was built post-war, late forties of 1950 maybe. It’s about 20,000 square feet, primarily an office building, meaning such as this. The, uh, superintendent’s office down the hall here on the lower level, um, has its own separate entrance over there. Some of the pictures in the, uh, first slide here, upper left is an old air handling unit, which I think used to serve some type of operating room to the building.

14:56 Some existing steam convectors that you’ll find around the building on the upper right. Very old steam system, 18 hundreds technology as everyone would know if you have steam in your house like I do existing AC unit. Um, these are kind of like, this was part of a renovation, I think when it became an office or something in 1980 ish, 80, late eighties, maybe kind of like, uh, motel hotel units. Um, I think they use R 12, which is no longer made. And it’s also considered a greenhouse gas contributor, some abandoned equipment up on the roof as well. Um, that, that unit on the roof from the lower rights was connected to that air handling unit on the upper left slide.

15:44 Thanks, Logan. Uh, the existing building, um, part of the, our, our scope also included recommendations for the roof. The roof is definitely of, of the time where it needs to get replaced. It’s an old tar and gravel roof. Um, one of our other requests was to also try to leave the, you know, the roof as available as possible for future solar panels. Um, that, that, that the panel may recording in Progress.

16:18 Alright. Um,

16:24 um, and we also had a, uh, an environmental hygienist, um, in this case, uh, take a look at the building in general to, you know, we kind of gave them what we thought we’d be doing for scope. You know, removing installation from the old pipes on the steam system, cutting holes in the floor. There’s some tiles, there’s the roof work. A lot of that turned up positive for asbestos. It’s not fryable, they’re flying around right now according to them. But as a renovation project, include it, take it out. Right. Um, next slide. Little bit more on the existing building. The elevator, as Logan mentioned, has been out. It’s been out for quite a while. So we put some, we did an estimate as part of the study,

17:10 and that cost is in there to kind of, um, we call it a complete modernization. It wouldn’t be, it wouldn’t increase the add dimensions. Um, so it’s still kind of tight, but that’s really big money to change that in a building built outta concrete. So we just assume that we, we keep it as, as is, um, all the accessibility upgrades. So this, so as part of any project with the mass, you know, building code is if you are over a certain threshold of renovation, um, you need to upgrade certain things. One of ‘em is a DA, other things like life safety and efficiency are also part of that. So in this case, a DA, we have upgrading, uh, toilet rooms, uh, door hardware, drinking fountains, um,

17:58 entrance ramp I think is also in there. So all that stuff, whatever we need to get compliant for public access would be part of the project. So again, the air conditioning and roofing project snowballs into, into more stuff. Right. So next one. Thanks again. So we looked at focusing on the HVAC side now, and, um, and, um, oh, um, sorry. Um, one thing I did want to mention, a couple other big things, um, also needed as part of the kind of renovating the building is I mentioned life safety, but also sprinkler system. The building doesn’t have any sprinklers right now. It’s a, obviously we’re gonna be taking down ceilings to put in a mechanical system.

18:44 Time to do that. The, uh, I think it was the fire chief was at the selectman’s meeting. He actually spoke up and said that would be a necessity to have that. Um, which, which we did have in the report already money to do that, as well as just, you know, looking around now, eight exit signs and fire alarm devices, all that kind of stuff. Right. So, um, back to the HVAC, we looked at basically three options. Um, option one, we always try to come up with what we think is gonna be the least first cost option. Um, which was just, um, um, adding air, right? So, and a couple of the offices, you have mini splits everywhere. Everyone’s familiar with them, putting ‘em in their houses everywhere. In this case you need about 80 of them.

19:30 Um, lots of them on the, lots of units, on the roof, all that kind of stuff. Lots of maintenance. No room for solar panels later. Um, not the most efficient, pretty efficient. Um, it would do heating and cooling, um, when in all three cases we’re getting rid of the fossil fuels, the boiler, the just old steam piping, the asbestos insulation, everything like that. Um, option two is kind of the, the, what I would call the Cadillac option and is a very long-term option. It’s called a four pipe fan coil. So hot, hot water in two pipes, chilled water in two pipes to get the option of either or, depending on what side of the building you’re on or what the season may be. Um, and that, that can be very, very efficient,

20:18 especially if you connect that to a geothermal system. Geothermal wells, obviously the price goes up. Um, you know, and we had, you know, a few discussions about what’s the long-term plans for the building. There really isn’t one, um, other than we, you know, the town knows they need it. Uh, but it’s, um, you know, what’s its purpose gonna be for the next 70 years, not known at this time. So that’s kind of like the 50, 70 year system. Um, you know, know, maybe, you know, like the, the, uh, the Abbott Hall building, that’s a historic building. You’d spend that kind of money on something like that, but maybe not this type of building, you know. Um, and then option three is, is kind of, kind of the state-of-the-art. Most, a lot of these systems going in these days, it’s, uh,

21:04 it’s, it’s called a pretty big upgrade from option one. It’s a VRF system, very refrigerant, uh, a system where they’re kind of interconnected. So the kind of, the heat is transferred between spaces if this person’s cooling and that person’s heating the BTUs are kind of moved around through the refrigerant system. Right. Um, very efficient. Um, and, um, takes up a lot less still equipment on the roof, but much less of that. Um, lots of different options with the type of units, the wall units they can be in the ceiling may be in a room like this and some duct work, all that kind of stuff. Um, and also with all these,

21:53 um, options, the project also includes an electrical upgrade to have a kind of an antiquated 2 0 8 volt system now that to go to a four 80 volt do need more power to run this because you’re basically switching from natural gas heat to electric heat with all these systems. Uh, or, uh, yeah. And all these systems. Um, so they all basically become a net, net zero on site, uh, system for, for the buildings. Uh, let’s see, what else?

22:27 I think I’ve went through all the three options. So I, so CO2 goes down. Um, we look at, you know, we have, you have a local, obviously local electric utility town. Um, we would, we would investigate it with any money from Mass Save or anything like that. I think you guys have had some luck with that before. Um, that’s not reflected in any of the estimates that we did. You know, these are, you know, preliminary estimates and there is contingency money in those estimates. There’s soft cost money in those estimates. Um, you know, as, as the project were to go further, if it were were to be approved and further design, there’d be more detailed estimates done before it would go out to bid. And finally a contractor hired to do that work.

23:14 Um, one thing, oh, is your firm a design built firm? No, we we’re a straight engineering firm. Yeah. So yeah, in, uh, Massachusetts, you know, projects this size, um, you design the project, you put it out to bid, all the filed sub bid laws are applicable. Um, which would be a lot of filed sub bids on this project. You know, a general contractor would oversee that and maybe self perform some of the other trade work involved in that as well. Um, Then I’ll jump in. So we preferred the 6.230. This was presented to the select board as their last meeting. They did approve it. I had them approve it at 5,000,750

23:59 because we had a previous 2022 borrowing at 480,000. So we would apply that towards the cost. And we may in the future, hopefully with Logan’s help get an a DA grant for another 250,000 towards the elevator and two a DA bathrooms that we’re looking to build downstairs. Um, I just have a question. So on the screen it says 6,230,000. Mm-hmm. On the printouts it says 6,750,000.

24:29 It’s supposed to be 6 2 3 0. Which, which one? Okay. Alright. Is that the difference for the, Is That the difference in the money? That’s bills? Yeah. Uh, no, no, no. 6 2, 3 0 should be the total. So yeah, that’s, that’s a type it should be six. I’ll do three zero minus 480 for 5,750,000. Two three, Sorry. Yeah. Four,

25:00 Couple other things that selectman asked. Oh, sorry, I have a question under, uh, option three, pros. Point four, the substantial energy savings as well as eventual movement or abandonment of a system, steam, blah, blah, blah. So this number does not include the removal of the existing. It, It does, it does. We What’s that eventual Meaning? It, it, I, I was just about to get, get to that. The selectman asked how, how long the project would take and, and we got into a phasing discussion. So the way we kind of envisioned the project would be done in four phases. Remember the shape of the building, it’s like a boomerang. It’s two floors. So we were gonna do it first floor over here, first floor, second floor, second floor. And that steam system would remain active

25:45 until the whole building gets a new system. At the end of the day, it all goes and it’s in that number right now. Okay. So it could, it could say, and at the end of the project, Yes, it will be removed. That would be better. Yeah. Okay. Um, so we, you know, we had a, a timetable here. I think we had 56 weeks of construction is what we came up with, uh, to accommodate that phasing details about where to move people and do that.

26:18 Not really in the cost, you know, so the people get dislocated in these four phases. Certain needs get kind of worked out. And as I mentioned, there is some contingency money in the estimate, maybe to cover stuff like that. Um, I think the challenging piece would be the superintendent’s office the few times I was here. That’s, there’s a lot of comings and goings there. It’s pretty busy. You know, we have to find, find a place for them. How would that staging affect the reroofing? So we’re not going into the roof again. I, I think the roof would be done all at once, probably pretty early in the project just to get that out of the way and everything protected on the inside, then you’d have To re penetrate. We’d get ev we’d get, they’d get everything

27:05 lined up ready to go. So any kind of pitch pockets or penetrations would be prepped ahead of time. We’d know where they are and, and, and to them fully in accordance with ever whatever particular roofing manufacturers is, is put in with their warranty requirements.

27:28 So I don’t have a question about the process. What’s the gonna be the recommendation? Can we cut to the chase here? This is article 33. Yes. It’s gonna be a debt exclusion override correct request? Yes. In the amount 5,750,000. Okay. And if we had to give a quick summary of what that includes, the main pieces that are being Repaired, I know we just got a very Detailed option. Yeah, there’s a, and there’s a couple of things I wanna make sure you’re, you know, we’re not in that, right? I know. So the H-H-V-A-C system, uh, electrical system, the roofing, um, most of the ceilings, any old hard ceilings that are still left in the building would,

28:13 would be taken out. Any asbestos that can be found would be taken out. Um, new lighting, new fire alarm, new sprinklers, new exit signs, 80 DA compliant building

28:32 Elevator. Oh, oops. Elevator. Elevator. Thank you. And then I pro, as part of the roofing, five inch in insulation gets ended up there too, to bring that up to code.

28:44 Uh, not included is moving walls, right? Like, you know, it’s, it’s kind of set up like the hospital, right? There’s kind of patient rooms and now people’s offices, right. There’s no, what I would call architectural programming changes. Um, you know, it’s like, you know, you know that that whole, we, you know, we’re kind of, I guess modernizing the building, bringing it up to code, getting it accessible, um, for 20, 25 years until someone figures out what they really want to do with the building. If they really wanna change it around and move walls and use it for something else that day. You know, it’s not that 50 to 70 year system

29:30 that I was, was mentioning. It’s good space.

29:36 And are, have there been significant maintenance costs, Alicia, related to like, what’s springing this now? I guess? Um, the electric, everybody’s using the electric space heaters, which were needed in the winter that could cause a fire. And we don’t have a sprinkler system because The main system’s not pushing. They fail. Pushing it, right. So my, in my office, there’s two heating systems and they literally don’t work. So I use an electric heater to give me heat in the winter time, along with a lot Replacing failed systems. Yeah. Yeah. They’re failed at This point. Yeah. Yeah. They’re, they Don’t do, they don’t do air conditioning anymore. They used to be heat and air, but they don’t do airing. So now we’re one point, now we’re using window air conditioners, So we’re running more Electricity As partly they’re non serviceable as well too, because they’re using older. Exactly. Right. Yeah.

30:23 So any, anytime one of those old motel units stops working, they someone’s, you know, taking out window panels and putting in through the wall window air conditioners and things like that. And do we know from the high efficiency system yet what the cost savings might be in terms of utilities? That’s some lo Logan asked us to update our report. We’ll issue that final with those numbers. But, you know, if people throw around the term efficiency and costs, sometimes they are complete opposite of what you kind of intuitively think. But ‘cause the price of gas that, that you folks have right now was dirt cheap.

31:06 Electricity is up, it costs more, it’s like five times more per, per energy unit. You know, so your utility bills will go up because now you’re gonna have system that actually works throughout the building and it’s an electric driven system. You know, which costs more, even though it’s more efficient, it just costs more. ‘cause it’s the way it is. You know, Although if we’re using electric space heaters, electric window acs and the, the, the economics of the monthly spend might be different. Right. It sounds like we’re spending whatever we are on gas, but because the systems are failing, we are currently using electricity for window AC when it’s warm

31:53 and space heaters when it’s cold. Right. Right. So I don’t know when you in the numbers, if there’s any way you can model that so that we really see what’s the current State. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And it’s, the modeling part is pretty easy. ‘cause we actually have your historical numbers. Um, and that is, that is part of the equation for sure. Um, and your electric rate is fairly favorable, you know, from your own co own utility, you know, so, um, it’s that part of it too. But I I I, I forget what you told me about. Are you buying green power now? Uh, the lay department, they, their energy portfolio is about 60% renewable energy or Okay. Or Excuse me, net zero resources

32:39 or zero carbon resources. Right. So if you were to make that a hundred percent, theoretically, your rates would go up for that. What do you think are some of the potential biggest surprises that could, I mean, how thorough and asbestos check did you go through? Are, are you gonna, what if you find a UST underground storage tank have those considerations? Yeah. Because we start talking about asbestos, you gotta get in to look at it so much. Yeah, no, I, I would say I don’t expect much more than what we, what we know is here. Um, you know, there’s a, there’s a, there’s a crawl space underneath this building where all the piping goes. We, you know, it looks like most of it had been taken out at one point,

33:25 but there’s still some left there. Um, there’s definitely, like in some of the stairwells nine by nine tiles, um, there’s not a, I’m not expecting a whole lot more than what we’ve seen. It’s not all over the place, but there’s, there’s some there for sure, you know? Okay. And your team came on site a couple of times and, and walked just on the roof as well to, to kind of understand. Yep. They went into every, every area they could find. And, you know, their, their hygienists, they, they know what they’re looking for. They took a lot of samples and Okay. Yeah.

34:01 And all that would be monitored and, you know, done under containment and then tested to make sure the air was moved by and including workers and actually the sound employees too from the public. So It sounds like these Replacement of the system renovation is how people would describe it, you said will last 20 to 25 years. There were other options that would’ve been longer, but that’s the one that’s been chosen by the town. Yeah. And that, that was my recommendation too. If you really had a master plan for this building to change it around and make it, you know, it doesn’t look like anyone’s done that in a while, you know, or we’ve never done it so.

34:46 Well, that’s where I’m kind of going with it. It’s not a question for you, but Right. I think there’s a capital planning committee and it doesn’t sound like we’ve vetted this I yet, but it sounds like I just called someone from the select board right before we came in here and asked that maybe they’d be meeting in the next week. I’m not sure. Not meeting to Tom be they’re not meeting, do you know who’s on that committee? No, The tech select No Capital. The capital Planning there was, there was a capital planning committee created last year’s town meeting. I know Dave Harris for Sure.

35:20 I’m not quite sure about the, the capital planning meeting details, uh, or committee details. But I do know that, um, the town was awarded, uh, grant funding to work with the Metropolitan Area Planning Council to develop an updated, um, town-wide comprehensive master plan, uh, which will kind of give a long-term planning for kind of the next 10 years. And, um, that’s something that the community developing development and planning department is starting to get ready and, and will form kind of a master plan development committee. So this could definitely be, and I, I’d assume that be an item, this part of that conversation as well. Right? Yeah. And I mean, I don’t know that whenever all that planning happens that there would be a different plan for this building for the next 20 to 25 years.

36:06 Um, there is a, but I, I’m interested in hearing their perspective since they were created at town meeting. There’s a capital planning committee meeting on Wednesday At, yeah, so I’m not, I’m not trying, you know, this sounds like a project that needs to happen. Um, but I would love to at least hear from them. So maybe we might table the vote until next week. And, but you know, it was very helpful to hear everything. Um, it’s just, you know, there’s a separate, uh, committee that might wanna take a look at it before we look at it. Does that make sense? Well, this, this goes on the agenda of the meeting on April 30th. On April 30th meeting. So I mean, it is On the agenda if Select one had the same thought that you’re you Yeah. And that’s, I talked to a select board member right before

36:53 and, and he thought they might be meeting this week. So thank you for confirm. So, I mean, we can vote. I mean, we’ve got the presentation. I don’t think we have more questions for, for you or your team. I think it’s more so just let’s hear what the committee has to say about it. Yeah. One, one thing we could do is we could take a contingent vote. In other words, assuming the capital planning committee and the select board approve this plan that Why don’t we just wait for, Okay. Because I don’t even know if they’ll take a vote. I’ve spoken with anyone in depth to know if they’re okay. The Capital Planning committee will be voting on it. So, um, I’m fine. I mean, we’ve voted other things on the floor Tom meeting before. Right. So, and We have a meeting. We

37:38 typically have a meeting Prior to Tom meeting Too. Yeah. So I mean, what Tom meeting starts at 7:00 PM Yeah. So we’ll meet at six 30. Six 30. Sure.

37:51 Uh, Alicia, did you wanna actually show like the financial impact of this? Yeah, Sorry, my, my Zoom had just, I wanted to be moved back Up. Oh yeah, no problem. So if you all remember last, uh, warrant hearing, we saw kind of an impact on like your average tax home, um, of the school that exclusion over at. So I think she has a few slides to show the debt, um, capacity and, and how this will impact and then also impact on taxpayers. Well, this first chart is showing back in 2024, we were at $11 million in debt. So then I showed in orange we’d be at 9.54 with Mary. If we just did the schools, you’d be at 9.75.

38:38 If you did both, you’re at 10.17. And if you did the, all the outstanding debt, Mary Alley, uh, the school roof and what we can borrow is outstanding, which is the road sidewalk. Mm-hmm. The Mary building roof and the Franklin Street Fire station. Then you’d be at 10.87 still below the 11 you’d paid in 2024. Yeah. So as a reminder, we have significant debt rolling off this year from the high school, I believe, was it the high school? That’s Correct. Yep. Um, so that it override long, long, long ago. Um, the debt has been serviced. Um, it’s rolling off. So you’d see a significant decrease in your tax bill for lack of a better way. But the select board has policies to issue new debt as certain percentages of the revenue or budget.

39:25 Correct. Various different metrics. So I’ll let you kind of go from there. Okay. So I put the tax impact first in yellow. So the average single family home, 1.21 8,000,253 falls off with the high school debt. If you added on authorized and nonissue, that’s another $98. If you added the high school, that’s another $86. If you added the Mary, that’s 62. So you’d still have a net impact of savings of $6. So this would be like your annual impact all in, if all of these things passed town meeting, um, including what we’re tabling to vote on tonight would be that third. So if you recall at, at the warrant hearing, I think you’d still have a decrease in your bill, but it was a pretty significant decrease.

40:11 Um, is this still a decrease? Yes. Yes. Even voting at all. So, So even voting, adding this on, we’d still have a small decrease. I think it was larger ‘cause we didn’t have this number yet, Right? Correct. That’s what it was. Yep. And then the median single family, uh, value of 956,000, there’s 200 savings with the 77 has authorized been issued 49 for the roof for this high school and for Mary Alley 49 for a savings of $23. Yeah. And, and of course, like, like at least from my perspective, this isn’t a situation where you see debt roll off and well, let’s put debt right back on. I think it’s set to meet the needs of your buildings and your other capital in town. I think it’s helpful for people to understand how it impacts.

40:58 And then, yeah, I, I asked this, I asked Alicia put together kind of a, the policies for, for the select board. Yep. So the select board is less than 15% of general fund revenue. And so I put from 2017 forward, so with 2026 it would be 9.94% of general fund revenue. So we’d still be within the select board policy under 15%. And then I also showed debt services a percentage of the tax levy. So we’re at 12.35% in line with how we’ve been consistently since 2022,

41:32 uh, on there as well. Yeah. So it looks like it’s within the policy. Um, you, you can see back to 17, we’ve under the policy, but even after these new debts, we, we’d be less than the last two years if you looked at that metric. Um, and then as, as our revenues grow, our total budget grows, the, the debt services is not necessarily growing, but it’s going up and down right. As a percentage. I don’t know if there’s a policy on that, So, Or more so just a metric, Um, more of just a me. So as CFOI had just have to monitor what falls off and as stuff falls off, that’s when we add on. And then we just look at what is the percentage I follow the financial policy, what is the percentage of how much debt we’re doing so that we’re not overburdening the taxpayers.

42:19 And then article 35, I’m withdrawing, um, the new bond council I have and our local town council said I do not need to reprogram the language for the fire station windows that it’s included in the original vote, so that I don’t need to, so I can withdraw that. Yeah. Article. Yeah. So that one we actually will, I’ll just make a recommendation of indefinite postpone. Um, did anybody have any last questions on article 34? We have one other item to discuss after we vote that 35? No. Okay. So we’ll vote it on Ted floor so it’s tabled. Okay. Um, article 35, I will make it a, uh, recommendation of indefinite postponement since the sponsor’s no longer bringing forward Second.

43:04 Yes. Yes. A yes. Pat. Yes. Jim? Yes. Eric? Yes. Lindsay? Yes. Mike? Yes. Michael jco? Yes.

43:17 Okay. I’m gonna go back to article eight. Yes. So we’re still working on getting free cash certified. I’ve been working with the state very closely in our own auditors. We’ve a new audit firm. So, um, as soon as I have those numbers, we will, I will give them to be voted on a meeting for, for the capital.

43:40 Yeah. So I mean, I just got this update today. So I think when we voted on all this stuff, um, we thought there might be an estimate of 12 million, right. Was what we, but we, we acknowledged that it was not certified yet. So it sounds like there may be some adjustments coming, which are not favorable. Um, which means if, if it all comes to out the way, we think it could be closer to like nine and a half million. So there’s, it’s a pretty big gap. So that’s a big gap. Yeah. Um, Alicia’s plan, assuming we, we get certified at nine and a half would be, um, to not adjust the operating budget, which we’re using seven, but I’ll let you kind of Yeah. We’re Still provide an update on how to Yeah, We would still leave the seven, uh, our

44:29 transfer over to, um, stabilization we reduced to a million. And our Article eight, you know, we reduce it down to 2 3, 6, 9 50 if it all unfolds that way. So I’m being conservative, extra conservative case It does. Right. So we’d be still funding stabilization as a town at 1 million. Um, but some of the capital requests that we previously voted on would have to come back by a million dollars as well. So this is not ideal. Um, I’ve been very adamant that we need to be getting free cash certified much sooner. Uh, fe Alicia’s working closely with the state to do so and the new audit firm. Um, I think Alicia’s trying to get it as right as possible, which is important that we get it right. We don’t want a number to be faulty and then find out about it down the road and kick the can.

45:16 Um, that being said, I’m not, I’m not very happy about this. Um, I think we need to kind of correct the process and make sure it’s done a lot sooner. Um, however that may be. I, I think there’s a, a number of things that go into this. Um, but I guess I’ll open the floor to you all tonight. Um, yes. Um, can you let us know, like with, I know Munis is gonna be implemented. Yes. Is, you know, what impact are our Board of Legacy information systems as part, as part of the this process? A lot of it, it’s very painful. Yeah. Okay. Um, I’m very excited to bring units us on. One thing is those unpaid bills too that we keep bringing every year. They should be in a purchase order. So we shouldn’t have unpaid bills

46:01 because you put up PO in place so that you hold that money aside for that purpose. The other thing is when making sure everything is booked properly, you can see it live instantaneously, run good reports. Now the way our system is set up, I have to run my two or three reports to get the information I need, even for us to go to DRDR like, Hey, we need this because it doesn’t show. So we have to run multiple reports to give information. So is that, do you think, you know, sort of the implementation of these systems could be really enough to Big time oh, big time improvement to actually make This process Run? Yes. So the way I guess, yeah, we have, so right now we use Facebooks. We were originally using Excel. We use QuickBooks and Excel against our system to reconcile with Munis. Munis has its own cash module which talks to the system.

46:48 So we’re not using three different systems to reconcile. That’s one issue. Um, collections, we use two different systems. We have collect pro assess pro, one for the assessor, one for the collector. Sometimes that doesn’t communicate in breaks and I have to pay for software fixes for that. And that was what caused our billing issues when we had to reissue bills was when they did an update it put some kind of like dashes in there, which meant that people’s bills and calculated. So the, to be put a fix in for that, the new muse system will have a new revenue module, which will roll out 7 1 26, which interfaces straight in with our general module and we’ll have our payroll module as well, which will allow us to do a lot more than our current payroll. Lets us do was we were having issues with people’s statements, not going out

47:33 and waiting for their check stubs because we have an old PDF writers that update ‘cause their sons setting old systems. So the new one is gonna solve a lot of issues, but in the meantime, we’re still, we have these old including processes and like Alex said, I’m working on streamlining, coming up with better processes for us so that we’re not in this predicament in the future. So it’s not the Department of revenue that’s, yeah. So, uh, it’s just that you don’t have the tools of at this point to be able to do this More it was efficiently Or be Well, what I heard today is that this, she’s working closely with the auditors, not the Department

48:18 of Revenue who certifies free cash. And it was identified through the audit between Alicia, them and they have since self-reported the update to the Department of Revenue. Okay. Quite frankly, the Department of Revenue could, could have certified it at what was submitted potentially without this update, but would never recommend that we catch something on our ring that we don’t. Right. Kick it down the road. So she did the right thing. It’s not a good situation. Right. We need free cash should be certified in December, let’s be honest. Yeah. So I agree. Um, there’s improvements to be made. I think we need to, we’re not gonna go in certified free cash as a finance committee, but we’re gonna have to be involved moving forward in updates earlier in, in the process. Um, because it’s quite frankly, last year I was pretty upset about how late

49:05 to certify as well. That’s not me telling you how to do your job or anything, it’s just, it, it’s, it’s hard to finalize a budget process and vote on things when numbers are Still I agree. And even our audit is usually over a year in arrears. And so I had them start the audit early this year and even starting the audit early this year, we’re still kind of in the same gap. So it’s, I mean it sounds, you know, at the end of the day, stabilization was created, I want to say four or five years ago, was supposed to be funded at two 50 per year. We missed two years of it. Um, we, we funded it twice, so we should be at a million coming in this year. We’re at 500,000, we’re still putting a million in. So we’ve caught up for the two years we’ve missed and we’re putting 500 in. Um, so with respect to stabilization, would’ve loved to see

49:51 that 2 million go in, but still better than we were last year when we put a million in. Right. Um, I’m interested in understanding, you know, the departments that are having to be called today, how they feel about this and what their solution is, but it is what it is. So all we can do is kind of move forward and, and go from there. Right. So, um, hopefully it gets certified tonight. I, I, I don’t know what else to say at this point. So, and I, I’ll keep Alec updated, so Yeah, if I hear anything I’ll let you know. Do they work overnight? Are they working? They’re working on it. Yeah. They have us as priority.

50:33 So how, what’s the impact of the amount that, are we still recommending the same amount of free cash tor to go towards the budget? Towards this Yes. To the operating budget? Yes. Yeah, It’s basically 7 million towards the operating budget. A million towards stabilization now a million towards capital. Correct. Rather than 2 million. Yep. Yeah. And remaining is estimated at 500,000 not being appropriated. That number was a million before.

51:07 So just stay in free cash. Half a million. What? The amount left in cash not to be re appropriated. Right. Has, has gone down by 500. But we don’t have an official number yet. So I hope it doesn’t change, but I’m not gonna vote on anything tonight. This is just, but we need to talk about this so we’re not springing this on you all at six 30 next Monday. What happens if it doesn’t get served? I couldn’t, but it will be served. Bob. Okay. I asked the same question. Yes. I ask you. See, I asked that A month ago. I appreciate your confidence.

51:47 Um, so yeah, not ideal, um, not expected, um, but have to move forward, um, Just to, ‘cause I, I feel I need to grow also, it seems like next Monday we’re going to be presenting a budget to the town to vote on and they’re huge swaths of information that have not been finalized yet. I mean, the municipal contracts, the free cash, I mean, holy cow. Well, no, the free cash is more concerning to me than the, um, municipal contracts. Those I’ve, I’ve been involved with eight or nine town meetings and pretty often the municipal contracts are not settled until the floor of town meeting

52:33 or not even after. So, um, you know, obviously very important, but I’m less concerned about something that is very common happens. Um, we need to, we need to fix this process of free cash being certified. It needs to be certified before calendar year end as we approach a budget that needs to be finished in the spring. I think we can get back there. Um, I think Alicia’s doing what she can at the moment to get back there, but, um, this is obviously not ideal news. Could We vote to make that official recommendation of the FinCo? Um, I mean we can, I got kicked Off this, so it’s still just a recommendation, But Yeah, yeah. Just to have It on the record. Yeah, sure. I I can, is it gold? I can promise you all that.

53:20 We’ll be having meetings this summer to get an update on the process. So, um, yeah, it really should be available. Uh, I’m used to it being really in the fall. It’s usually certified in the fall. Well, cer certainly by state of the town, Right? Yeah, it’s usually done in the fall. Be prepared for just finish up. So that’s the update. I just, Can I just add, um,

53:48 With your primary responsibility to make recommendations to town meeting, um, I hope that you take great care in, in dissolving this issue because the process that leads up to your recommendations, as you were saying, starts at the beginning of the year and to be at this point, I think we’ve been lucky for the past couple of years that we haven’t had a, a, a, a problem at town meeting when recommendation is made on a budget that we need to be able to follow. So just, just my request to do everything that you say you’re gonna do.

54:28 Thank you. Uh, I think we said that ourselves. So yeah. And we are not involved in the process of actually having free cash certified. Understood. And I’m not planning anybody. I’m just saying it should be tight for a town Meeting, but I can learn it if the town needs me to. So, Um, so the agenda for town meeting is that just gonna, so Fin Comm’s gonna be union contracts. You’re gonna vote that on Monday If it’s signed? We’re gonna have the union contracts. We have to vote on the capital articles and we have to vote on, um,

55:01 the, well, the Mary Alley, the revision revised Article eight capital articles and then the Mary Alley speech five, no, Eight And 33 33. Yeah. So we also need to vote down free cash since that number. Oh, the stabilization, the stabilization account, not the um, yes. And there’s a free, free stay the same. Yeah. So we should get there at six if we can. We’ll have, honestly it is that when you want six, it’s honestly not updated. Like six. We joking As as big of an update as this is. The numbers aren’t that complicated. So it is what it’s, So should we plan meet at six? Six if you can six. I’ll send an email.

55:48 Well, I’ll post it Six. Yes, that would be great. And who’s ordering the pizza? Put an order bag Before they Report. Can’t say get out of free cash.

56:00 Um, public comment.

56:06 Was there anything else we were supposed to discuss? Uh, minutes? Nope. No, we’re good. We’re done. Yeah. Not ready yet. Okay. All right. Meeting adjourned. Thank you very much.