School Committee: February 9, 2023

Transcript captured from YouTube auto-captioning. No speaker labels; proper names and dollar figures occasionally misheard. Click any timecode to jump to that moment in the source video.

0:00 runs and gets it off the printer it’s actually helps a little you are live streaming my son used to do that too that’s really funny Sarah what my house is so old you can feel it when it prints shakes so we’re not having to feedback like we normally do correct nope I may have figured out how to do that I am going to admit all okay okay

0:41 okay I see Pat just joined so I think we have everybody I’m going to call us to order at 1201 I just want to note um that we are recording this and it goes to our school committee live stream page um I think a little blurb comes up about that but I like to say it um and this is our joint meeting between the fincon Liaisons as well as the school committee Liaisons I’m going to kick it right off to Dr Buffy and or Michelle um to give us an update kind of on where we are I just first want to recap I think I mean obviously the people in this meeting know but for any anybody from the public are watching later I’m going to recap um last week at the state of the town we found out that there is an operational deficit um and we will would need to make our

1:33 Target a we’re all working towards a 1.3 increase um Dr Bucky and Michelle have worked with the town side to kind of figure out in dollars what that allocation would be to us um essentially we’re trying to move us forward with an eight roughly an 800 000 increase to give people a scope of where we were um just to keep the lights on per se Michelle what were we at to um I have it right here 2.387 so that Delta is you know significant um and we’re kind of just going to walk through Dr Bucky and his team have started working they’ve had multiple meetings on getting us to that Delta and um we’re just going to be presenting kind of what that process has been and

2:22 what that means for the face of Education in Marblehead so I will kick this off to Dr Buck thanks Sarah um we did the budget workshops with the school committee on Monday before the uh state of the town and so um our original request of enhancement to uh personnel and programs as a yeah in addition to Rolling forward uh operating requests supplies materials it’s worth noting the cost of paper has gone up 70 percent our initial budget request uh was 49335 after the state of the town and the realization that the budget that we would have to back into would be that one uh 1.3 1.8 percent that Sarah

3:12 referenced or eight hundred thousand dollars so we eliminated any or most Staffing requests for fy24 reduction of supplies and services uh a savings of 556 6 or 517 again taking into account that the cost of paper has itself gone up 70 and the cost of doing business um we like most districts have had some unfilled positions this year and so we are able to through unfilled positions not that we don’t need them because we absolutely need them but we are proposing 539 000 of those unfilled positions not be

4:01 filled for fy24 and then uh we discovered a calculation error in our roll forward which uh fortunately was to our benefit any part-time staff member the program rolled them forward as a full-time staff member so for example an orchestra teacher that is shared among three buildings a point two here a point four here was rolled forward as a 1.0 three times over so that was a calculation error of 584. that leaves us right now if you see highlighted toward the bottom a gap of 543 651. which honestly as superintendent will represent catastrophic cuts to the

4:48 district so everything is on the table at this point Athletics co-curriculars anything that is not required by the state and interestingly the Commonwealth of Massachusetts only requires U.S history and PE to be taught um will be considered for meeting that 643 651 Delta and so I’ll ask Michelle if I’ve missed anything or open it up for questions yep no word I mean that’s John John’s right on here and um basically our Gap at this point is the 643 thousand dollars that’s just to get to the 800 000 that um was arrived at through discussions between the Town Administrator and the superintendent um understanding that the town is in very tough financial situation with the

5:38 with the fiscal funding Cliff that free cash use um so that’s where we are the 643 is not saying that we can easily even get to this point because we cannot um so so far we’ve taken some some tough made some tough decisions and and we still have 643 000 left to cut in order to meet the town’s guidance but ideally that’s not where we would recommend a budget to be in a perfect situation it will significantly impaire impact the face of Education in Marblehead the what we provide to our students and our families will be Bare Bones at best so so thank you for that information as horrible as it is to hear that information I just want to also point

6:24 out that it is my understanding and please definitely chime in and let me know if I understand wrong John that that 643 Delta we’re at getting to that we actually have eliminated um items that our state Frameworks we with this 643 are no longer meeting State guidance and Frameworks of what we teach our students an example of this would be we are supposed to be teaching them technology and seeing and we haven’t we’ve never been able to afford it it was one of our ass in this budget that had to be eliminated so right now we don’t meet the state Guidance the state Frameworks for teaching um Steve and Technology to our students that’s just one area where Marblehead is providing an education that does not meet State guidance and state great works so we’re still at 640 away we’ll keep cutting

7:12 um but but this is this is very significant and it is putting an education in Marblehead below what the state says we should be teaching that is correct before we even hit the 640. that is correct okay back to education and Marblehead cannot be overstated understood um and I first want to start off with I’m very happy with where this conversation is starting because we have an upcoming meeting Monday night as a full fin comp with Thatcher kind of a regroup from the state of the Town it sounds like you’ve had some conversations with Thatcher about kind of step one to the process I think the state of town it’s not a surprise it was

7:59 if you read the finance committee report last year and what was set a town meeting we knew something of this nature was coming um however I think everybody around town um in this budget process whether they’re directly involved like us and you guys or just kind of following along is going to want to jump to the you know what’s the override piece but we appreciate you kind of taking what I view as step one Thatcher’s right we need to come up with a balanced budget for article 30 assuming it’s the same as last year articles um that balances because we can’t just assume that this override that presumably is being developed and that the finance committee expects to be put forth before us we can’t assume that that will pass a town meeting so having this kind of Bridge to start is is very

8:49 helpful because it’s where we can build from here um next I’ll say Monday night this this number that it sounds like Michelle maybe got from Thatcher um my understanding is that that probably is an estimate at this time right Michelle that the 800 000 is kind of my understanding is he’s doing a lot of homework since the state of the town he started right that weekend I was trading emails with him um well we probably started the next day but the weekend is when when I was uh working on it with them he’s he’s trying to figure out what the true Gap is right based on submitted budgets he’s getting comfortable with all the Departments what they need um and what they’re requesting to come up with an actual number because what he presented at state of the town still had

9:35 some estimates in it but that’s probably his best estimate at best at this time is that fair is that how that conversation went yes that’s the conversation that I had with him so I think this is this is a good starting point um but yeah this is unfortunately the situation we’re in where we’re going to have to come up with a number I don’t know that we’ll land on this 44782-273 as we work through this process together as to what goes into article 30. um it might be higher it might be lower it might be right on but yes that’s the process I’m glad everybody understands that we need a balanced budget every Department’s going to have to presumably be pulling back from what they requested and submitted to the town in January I guess I’ll pause there if and and you know I think

10:22 we’re on the same page but did anything I say uh you know do you not kind of view it the way I view it no I agree with the same way I just want to make sure that you want that that everybody understands the ramifications of putting forth a budget that does not meet State guidelines and Frameworks understood yeah I mean it’s significant in Marblehead but it could be significant um you know we’ll just put it we’re not meeting our our guidelines yeah we fully expect there to be a you know override developed that will include Bridging the Gap from your reductions here and you know it needs to be you know a team-wide effort amongst all Town departments with Thatcher that’s

11:09 oops um maybe I’ll use this minute to jump in if you don’t mind Sarah I want to do a follow-up since Alec is Frozen and uh might as well fill the void here um I guess this is a question and he was alluding to it a minute ago um it’s a question and maybe an expression of my hope is that there would be unlike last year that there would be uh and I don’t know John if you’re comfortable talking about your conversations with Thatcher yet I realize this is a public forum but it’d be nice if there was one override um because I think that the message for the town would be much better if we said here’s the Baseline budget here are all the ways it falls short across the town and here’s one unified override because I think the challenge of of multiple uh voices and multiple strategies is going to be a chat is going to be

11:59 difficult we also you know the the difference from the town meeting when you have a chance to explain things and the and the town white vote so I guess I’m just expressing my hope that um I think I want to Echo what Alex I think this is I appreciate you doing this I think this is what has to happen across the town and then there has to be a very coordinated and uh hopefully unified uh override approach which has the schools and other needs of the town and then we are all on the same page about advocating for that I know I’m jumping ahead but I just can’t no not at all I can’t anticipate you know being coordinated is what I’m really saying I appreciate John that you and Thatcher are trying to do that in a way where I hope hopefully we all come around the same set of recommendations at the end of the day I really appreciate it I appreciate that

12:46 um one one concern is we we need a unified message if you will because you know we are hearing this from you I believe we’re hearing it from Thatcher but there are elements that are you know still letting us know that they’d prefer it be a menu and people be able to choose what they vote for so obviously we have our placeholders if we need to use them where we’re set up to do that but I I think that we really need to iron out you know is this a unified override or not because when we go for an override we have you know our contractual obligations we have to take care of and things like that but we also need to address these deficits

13:32 in our education system where where we’ve been out of compliance in in Frameworks for so long so we need to know that any number we’re bringing forward needs to be brought forward with Fidelity to really meet State guidance and to teach what the state’s telling us we need to teach so I’m happy to hear you say cam that you support this I’m happy to hear that that we’re hearing that from um Thatcher I’d like to hear it I’d like everybody to hit me on the same page for that I’m sorry Al go ahead no go ahead cam go ahead no I was just going to say I think we’re obviously not there in terms of what the content of that would be and I obviously I know what you’re saying it sort of depends on whether the agreement meets the needs that you uh feel are

14:19 sufficient um but I guess I just as a process I think um it should be a goal we put it that way it should be a goal that that there’s some unified um understanding of what the town needs across all departments including this and schools and then that that becomes I I worry without a unified message um you know there’ll be a challenge I guess that’s really what I’m saying and I can see the validity of that concern absolutely um I just I think it’s a very strong feeling of the school department and I can speak for myself um but guess that about other school committee members that were at the point that we’re going to bring forward an override request for what education should be in Marblehead and if that works um into this joint effort then then all

15:06 the better I think we all can benefit from that I think a lot there’s that people are looking this year to support the schools um in ways that may not have been in the past and um that would be my hope but if not we are still going to bring forward a number that meets needs of keeping us in compliance yeah so I was I think the process you know step one here as I outlined before you’ve kind of done which is kind of your what’s our budget gonna be that’ll I’m you know come together with all other Town departments to have a balanced budget in in article 30. and then the next step is you know what is our deficit with contractual obligations by itself first that’s the

15:53 way I look at looking at this I’m not saying presenting it over I’m just saying building up to what an override would be what’s that amount for one year what’s that amount for two years three years four years five years right as it exponentially grows in a structural issue right and so what would an override take just to keep us level service and then critical needs of the town and the schools is that going to be part of this override and then anything else additional to that that I don’t know how it’s defined as critical or not but you know that’s going to have to be between you Thatcher and us to figure out you know what goes into the overall override but I don’t think it’s just going to be every Department saying this is what we need

16:39 and we’re just going to lump everything together and and go for something like that I just want to get that clear that I do think there’s going to have to be some give and take between everybody here if that makes sense because it we’re up against a really hard structural Challenge and it’s going to have to be working together um it’s not just going to be kind of you know this is our budget and we’re going for everything there’s going to have to be I’m guessing some play back and forth and and I don’t I think that anybody would be hard-pressed to to say that we’re looking to guilt the lily Pat you guys see your hands you don’t have to raise your hand Pat you can just speak okay well I I okay fine um I just wanted a clarification if I could from you Sarah and and you you just said that

17:29 um it sounded like what you just said about bringing forward an override request that meets the needs um is potentially in conflict with what I believe um Cam’s point was because if that means that um that the view of the school committee and the school department is going to have a that that even with a collective override approach for the town including the schools that that could still

18:15 um well that’s clearly what we want to work toward I guess um and I think that’s we’re all in agreement that is our goal for everybody that we are able to work to a point where um the town DPW fire and police that everybody is having their needs met okay um but you but but you said I’m just saying that what I re what I wrote down that I thought you said was um that it was your position that um if potentially the available funding in the discussion of a town-wide collective override wasn’t sufficient that you believe you you think that the school

19:01 would then um can continue with an additional override request you know my point is I truly believe as a school Committee Member it is my duty to advocate for a bare minimum us providing an education that meets the state state guidelines it it would never ever be in my of my opinion appropriate for me to advocate for not meeting State guidelines and so what I’m saying is whatever we need to do to get to that point is what we need to do now the voters may say we’re okay with being out of compliance it’s to their will what I’m saying is the number that we need to bring forward

19:49 and I’m hoping we can do that as a community a joint number needs to be reflective of getting us into compliance I mean the idea of bringing something knowingly knowing we’re out of compliance just doesn’t make sense to me if you will yeah and and clearly you you know your your role as in the school committee is to advocate so um okay I just I just wanted clarification that that that’s helpful thank you it sounds like I mean I think maybe what Pat’s trying to ask and maybe I’m wrong is that there could be a situation here where where you would present a budget including you know above and beyond what can be supported by article 30 and then the town potentially could say you know we can support X Y and Z but not you know

20:36 the rest of it and that you would potentially still go for an override above and beyond the structural um town-wide piece I I can’t speak to that I that’s for you know Michelle to guide us on financially what is the best way to to do this my understanding is the school committee passes a budget and then it’s it moves on to fincom to work with about the funding mechanism for it yeah we’ll have to I can only say that we need to budget to meet the needs of our students right I just think it’s very important for us to keep in mind throughout this process the different steps as I’m saying right like yeah if there’s three budgets like we

21:21 have to scrub the top number the middle number and the bottom number and really understand what’s in there and you know work together to figure out Solutions because yeah absolutely that’s the give and take I’m talking about and I think it goes without saying I mean the schools right now we’ve we are light years ahead quite honestly um where where we may have been in the past and quite honestly I think I haven’t seen any budgets come out in the town side that get as close to this number that start itemizing where we’re cutting so I’m really proud of the work that Dr bakkie and his team have done that we’re putting out in the public you know that we’re working on getting us to this number what those cuts mean how this is going to affect education um we put out our budget book publicly we have all of our grants listed um I think we’re we’re above and beyond

22:10 putting things out there yeah I would just add that I think also but fully agree with that and huge thanks to Dr Bucky and his administration and Michelle for all of their guidance and hard work on this I think that we we do need to recognize how much more transparent we are being as a school committee from previous years which I think it is fantastic um but also just kind of being the most transparent in setting that bar um high that hopefully the town departments can follow as well I think I I think that’s great I would just like to agree with that the transparency since I mean I haven’t been involved that long but I’ve been observing for a while and I I do think that this is also going to help when there is a pitch for additional funding

22:57 whether in the context of a general override I think the more transparent um you are and the rest of the town is is a really important First Step um and if I could just say Sarah I think at some point in the course of our conversations it might be worth having a review of those items that uh you or Dr Bucky thinks are potentially putting us out of compliance with State guidelines I think that’s that’s a big you know it’s a big statement it’s a big deal and I think we ought to concretely see what it is and how much the difference is and you know so as part of our conversations we know we know what that is what the impact I mean there’s the issue of being out of compliance but then what’s the impact of being out of compliance you know I think those are good things for us to to be briefed on in the course of these meetings

23:45 absolutely we can get that list for our next meeting without any problem the the tech one jumps out at me because we we talk about that a lot in-house so I know that one but Dr Bucky and his team obviously can get that together Alec I interrupted you I’m sorry oh no worries um and you know we’re early in these liaison meetings still I think we’ll have a number um over the next few months here um I think at one point in the not the materials that were sent this week but I saw a summary of you know a history of the Appropriations from town and then a history of Grants and the various other you know income not income but Revenue in that you have to spend on a budget I think what would be helpful and this is just me trying to understand the full

24:32 picture again I’m I’m as new as cam to reviewing the depths of the school this is only my second year doing it with you so last year was a lot to take in we’re going to grow together here understand the expenses in the history that have been spent on the other side my understanding is certain grants are limited as to what you can spend them on and whatnot if that’s fair but that transparency I guess my question would be when we’re talking about you know a reduction in funding from the town for you guys are you able to and and I’m guessing the answer will be no but we’d like to see it are you able to make up any of that with your other sources of revenue or not um or are you truly these Cuts you know is there opportunity to use other

25:19 sources of revenue to to make up for some of that is my question that’s Michelle answer before I forget I just want to ask a quick question Alec uh in my research so if are you able to send us how the town departments put forth their Grant um information I tried to look I just want to make sure that ours matches theirs and format to kind of make it more digestible for the public I tried to look and I can’t find anywhere and anything published where the town talks about their grants but I just want to make sure however format they use to to report those that we are going to use the same format yeah I’ll have to follow up on that um but I’ll check and answer on that um but yeah I mean I I’m just trying to learn the whole the whole process here

26:04 so um I just wanna I’m interested in how it all works because there’s it’s it’s not it’s not fully straightforward when there’s multiple things going on I don’t even know what type of expenses you spend in that budget because for me personally I’ve never reviewed it so yeah no so actually I am in the process of putting together an expense side of that um summary that basically you know details our Revenue um as you stated most of it cannot be used for anything other than the earmarked purposes that the grants are used for the one exception is our foreign tuition revolving um account but typically we try to use that because it’s not guaranteed Revenue we try to use that on one-time expenses so we don’t have a funding Cliff just

26:52 like free cash for example um so you know we are anticipating maybe bringing in I can’t remember 120 uh bit on the numbers in front of me it was it’s between one and 200 000 next year but typically we try to do building improvements equipment improvements um one-time costs with those so really besides that funding source everything else is essentially earmarked for a specific purpose okay I’m going to detail that those are generally Sense on those purposes every year yes and like fleshed out so you’re basically if I think about in my in my day-to-day I work with you know for-profit businesses you have business Unit A and B having two different Revenue sources and then you have your expenses they’re both going down to zero

27:38 basically every year essentially um with grants it’s it’s a little trickier in terms of reporting and Reporting um federal grants have up to 27 months to spend so the revenue comes in or the award comes in we then have 27 months to spend it ideally they like it spent usually in the first year um however we also can’t request the funding until roughly 30 to 60 days from when we’re going to expend the funds so it’s it’s not a matter of necessarily tracking the cash it’s really tracking the award and when we’re going to anticipate using them and having to be able to use them with those strict you know expenditure guidelines um so it it’s not straightforward by any means yeah

28:24 yeah so Michelle where we rely on a lot of these grant funding it’s a float every year and it’s a 27 month cycle if we expend that and if we essentially borrow from future years in that 27 within the confines of the law because it’s within that 27-month period we’ll be shorting ourselves in next year need to fill that hole correct right typically um it’s certainly we can’t borrow net from a future Grant but we or you have found that most times we try not to spend the first year essentially we’re trying to use up the previous year in the current you know in the current year so we’re using last year’s grants right now and they were trying to hold next year’s or the current year’s award for next year’s expenses so that we always know it’s their guarantee

29:13 um not always what we’re doing with circuit breaker exactly similar to the circuit breaker and that’s that’s another thing that we’re trying to build up circuit breaker to the the one-year limit which is with the state guidance recommends is having one years of the funding in in essentially the revolving fund not utilizing it until you’re following budget year um when you know what that actual revenue is because right now we had been or when I started here three years ago we were in a funding mechanism that we were budgeting a circuit breaker amount that we didn’t know for sure and we were already using those funds in that same year that’s what happened in 2018 that pushed us over that Cliff for the 780 000 shortage was we didn’t have any

30:00 holdover or safety net and when circuit breaker came in under we had that those legal obligations for the outplacements and we didn’t have there was no funding to cover it so I’m I’m very grateful that you’ve established us as being a little more fiscally responsible with those those funds so in fiscal 23 fiscal 22 I’m sorry I don’t know which year is which right now fiscal 22 we did have a short fall in the circuit breaker Revenue by roughly 250 000 but we had a balance carry forward so we were able to absorb that without you know no one no one really knew about it except for me and when I reported it out um but it really didn’t impact our budget uh because we had that right now we’re anticipating our circuit our special education costs being higher than budgeted but I’m not panicking

30:48 because I had an extra almost a million dollars in that circuit breaker fund which is where it should be each year so um you know if if we were in a very tight year I may end up using that full million hopefully not because I really want another million to flow through into next year for unexpected costs or being able to hear the following year where this is coming from is just what Cam said from my perspective is the more transparent and the more we can understand um your full picture in the more transparent we can be the more we can get behind whatever it is that you’re putting forth whatever step in that you know example I was saying the step one two and three just to understand the full picture so that we have answers to

31:33 questions when people ask essentially um it sounds like you guys have answers it’s just us you know taking it a step further and trying to understand your full budget essentially and you know kind of going through those different Revenue sources and really just defining you know what they’re spent on what they can be spent on what they can’t and and it sounds like you guys have a really good grasp around that it’s just getting us up to speed so that we’re prepared to really defend what we’re supporting as we vote on your budget uh that goes into whatever articles may become coming here yep perfect and that that’s what I said um so I’m working on the expense side I’m also working on a summary of all those Reverend all those funding sources and what they can be used on so that will certainly be helpful and I mean I am being I am willing to be as

32:21 transparent as needed um the only thing is I also don’t want to not over share information but I don’t want to confuse matters because certainly yeah it’s not a cut and dry situation um willing to share anything one area I was hoping for a little more guidance from you guys is when we met at our last meeting um some of the you shared some of the concerns we’ve had in-house here and you talked about how our our raising out of District placements really are the most volatile part of our budget and you asked him I think it was Pat that was asking some really good questions about can we start to look at where where that’s happening can we can we study that a little more so we can get ahead of it we don’t want to be Pennywise and pound foolish so we um we had had those

33:10 that animal that work had been done um and part of our initial ask for expanding some positions was in response to that to proactively try to build up some of these programs for losing kids from to build up our 2 here one and two supports I don’t know if you guys have the one two and three um understanding but we’re trying tier three is when you’re on an IEP and you’re you’re getting those supports and they’re legally mandated what we try to do is we try to to bolster those kids before they get to that point to kind of have as a snap stop Gap it’s obviously best for the student but it’s also about best for our bottom line financially too so we had we had given that directive out Dr Bucky shared it with his

33:56 leadership so some of these asks were to get ahead of that and try to if you will stop um the outflow of outplacements now those got pulled out of this budget to come back is that still something you that you would request that we make a priority kind of because if we can do that now we’re going to be saving ourselves next year because once these out placements are gone they they don’t come back um or given our financial status is that something you you don’t want us to start working on yet and we’ll work on in the future I feel like we should look at it I mean if I’m understanding you correctly from a very basic level you’re saying that if you were able to add certain um services within our school department related to special education in-house it

34:45 might be a whole it might you know keep certain students that are going out placements within our school system at a much cheaper rate than we’re paying when they go and some of this is bolstering our general education so they don’t become our special education it’s just trying to kind of prevent preventative here if you will yeah yeah go ahead yeah my uh my request and my comment from um well past years or last year at least um and as as uh Sarah uh mentioned is the it’s like a cost-benefit analysis is there a value added going forward to create um positions that more than compensate for the Delta cost out that’s the kind

35:36 of thing that’s what I was getting at and I think I don’t I don’t know if this was also in that same conversation but I think we also talked about whether there is a way um where any of the services and any of the placements and I realize the placements tend to be the more substantial needs students but is there any um value in creating uh greater capacity within the district to provide services to more students to then uh you know diminish the out of District placements and I I don’t know if that if that’s true but I think what we’re saying is if there are investments that we can make that will prove to be even if it’s not in one year but long term uh Savings in out of District placements that’s I think as Alex said I think that’d be really good for us to hear and and there absolutely are in in our principles out line that and our directors outlined

36:23 that I’m wondering if part of this list is those additional asks we kind of put label as preventative or proactive and um one one example is Mary Maxwell our one of our principals talked about someone to deal with behavior right now we’re seeing a lot of emotional behaviors in our younger students that are then leading to placements in specific so so you know it’s not something that’s going to turn around in a year but which we’re trying to do some proactive work to get ahead of this stuff and you know it’s the same as you going to your yearly physical and preemptive you know testing and things like that so we can work to label those and it will make it a little bit easier I think to to realize this might be an aspirational wish this is really a long-term plan to

37:13 to recoup some of that um expenditure and so I understand um so with respect to the special education you know costs that are obviously a real pressure on your budget every year right so you know last year you know as part of your request there were only certain increases above and beyond your contractual obligation that could be supported by the town one of which was the special education request so that funding source from the town is there additional funding for special education in your other funding sources as well or no no in special education alternative funding sources are very prescriptive in

38:00 what the dollars can be sent spent for okay you know and I was just going to ask um do those Source do those funding sources move up and down as the needs of your school department are grow right you’re out placement do they do they increase when you have more costs is my question I guess no the only thing that changes is the circuit breaker reimbursement which occurs the year after we pay the charge so we can we can get into all that um but yeah to me Sarah your question I think we should I don’t know where the town will land in working with everybody with you guys here on whether those come in or out but I think it’s something longer term certainly but why not shorter term too we should really be looking at because

38:46 especially if we’re in a situation with a structural deficit where our revenues can only increase by x amount you know that would presume that most Town departments could get that increase at least every year we’d want to build a reserve and hopefully that’s part of this analysis too right but if special education keeps at the pace that it is based on the few years that I’ve seen it that’s eating up a lot of your increase every year right is that fair so I think that it’s almost like from my perspective general education I don’t know if you refer to it as general versus special it’s almost like two separate things to track and kind of navigate separately to me and I’ve seen other towns where they have long-term planning where they say you know Assumption of general education

39:33 for a long-term plan obviously things change but we’ll grow at this percent however special education will grow at this percent so just to me in looking at that it’s something like yeah let’s keep everything on the table I don’t know if it’ll get pulled back and as we work through this process this year but it’s not something to like put down and wait till later from my perspective if that makes sense no totally and I think it will be helpful for us to give you that information of which items kind of are part of a long-term plan of hopefully reducing Reliance and special education costs and I don’t know if uh if Thatcher is looking to do a multiple year set of budget projections but he certainly described there’s a you know there’s a timeline for trying to address the

40:22 structural deficit and so that I think the extent to which you have things that are that play out in future Years and we’re talking about special ed right now and I think that’s really important I think the extent you’re looking at things that where you were to make decisions today it would have a beneficial impact um next year or the year after I think that is a really important part of the conversation because when when the final decisions are made about what’s in and what’s out of whatever is agreed upon I think those types of Investments even if there’s not a savings next year but there’s a savings the following year are very uh important things for us to be looking at and considering yeah and and just I I’d just like to add I think a terminology and a summary like that we’re all in violent agreement here I think um you know having a forward-looking

41:08 list or uh you know some uh a Visionary kind of um but with backed up with the benefit you know with being able to show what what this investment is going to result in in future is is is the way we all I think collectively wanna would like to see this and and just one other thing trying to you know not being the Grim Reaper here or whatever but um even that um that level of beneficial potential you know we still don’t know whether that’s going to be able to be included in when you have to cut another 643

41:54 thousand dollars out of um the basic ask the non-general override basic ask so it’s you know that’s that’s we’re not there yet so let’s I’ll I’ll forego that discussion at this point but so have you guys adjusted timelines um and originally when we talked you were hoping that end of March maybe 24th 27th was your last meeting it sounds like to me given what came out of the state of the town there is a tremendous amount of work to be done we’re all essentially developing two budgets do you have new dates or new ideas so I sent this out I basically pushed back as far as I could right so my end-all be-all is the warranteering and to me

42:44 the warranteering can’t be any later than Monday April 10th the following week is uh school vacation week I don’t think folks would be very appreciative if we did it then um and the following week after that is one week before town meeting I don’t think Town citizens would want to you know have their warrants you know finalized just you know seven days before time meeting so I’ve pushed our income budget hearing approvals as far back as I can so I have you guys on Monday April 3rd as the tentative date um and I have the other departments uh the two Mondays before that you know there’s other departments with you on the third but there’s going to be three nights like always my only other option is to if we need more time for that

43:29 first not that it would impact you but we would need to maybe do two nights rather than three nights if we need just a little bit more time and in a very important year with a time crunch with limited uh resources that are employed by the town um in the finance group over the past six months or so um another thing I wanted to so you got that Monday April 3rd did you have any questions I put it down here Monday April 3rd yeah and then the warrants would be the the Monday after that so this is kind of as close as we can get it is FY 22 closed out yet I know Thatcher had said at the say the town he thought another two or three days is that closed out yet I did not get an update but that’s what he told me when I asked him and he thought that two weeks from the date

44:14 they submit that the free cash would be officially certified okay uh but let me follow up with him on that um I haven’t talked to him about that topic since last week but I’ve talked about I mean not that I’m expecting there to be someone found something gigantic but okay well in the positive it would if it was that they found money I’m okay with it that would be good that’s true um one other thing that I brought up when we did our kind of planning talk and maybe it was December maybe it was January I’m losing track of time here but um was as we developed the story for supporting your budget and and potential override scenarios um we asked last time about kind of some metrics related to kind of your peer communities

45:02 um and kind of the major metrics that you guys crack and view from a financial perspective um maybe we could have a discussion about that on our next um liaison meeting as a bullet item again I’m just trying to learn and grow with this uh com this liaison committee being my second year and and trying to understand you know you know how we compare to how the state defines our peer communities I know you mentioned last time that maybe you as a school committee view our peer communities as something different but I just kind of want to see those financial metrics um to me supporting and ask that’s going to cover your costs is pretty simple but to go above and beyond that and start adding things I I just would feel more comfortable being able to answer some

45:49 questions that might be coming at us if that makes sense no absolutely um we can get you I’m sure like a one page you’re talking about what what we I think it’s good to list the comparatives that Desi has established um but also some of the comparatives that you hear in town that that the public seems to think we’re compared to which Desi does not compare us to at all um you know we can absolutely get you those it’s yeah it’s pretty easily accessible on Jessie’s site okay I can I mean I can go on the site too I just I thought I think it’s easier if we just do it in one page it’s probably easier to put out to the public okay yeah okay I just want to have a discussion about it so again I just this is what the school committee has presented that’s

46:34 that’s your job this is what we voted and why and this is what we support and why and let the taxpayers decide what type of school system they want Marblehead to have and and go from there that’s kind of the goal so yeah

46:53 John and Michelle have we missed anything not that I know of no I don’t think so this was helpful have we set future meeting dates for this group if they have I don’t want to be out of my calendar no but I did provide kind of the dates in an attempts to avoid like the right emails with 100 people I can or can’t make I provided dates that we certainly cannot meet and right I’m pretty flexible because I work from home but I know cam you travel more than I do yeah you golf more than that but um he doesn’t sound bitter about that at all exactly yeah but there’s 24 hours in a day so I mean it’s uh there’s never mind it’s the preferred day meetings are

47:43 evening meetings I don’t golf or ski anymore so I’m wide open I mean I prefer evening but can make these work just the noon time slot as I said in my email that’s like the one day that I have recurring meetings a few of the days of the week so if we can avoid that noon 12 30 that usually can be flexible and move my other meetings around that’s my view personally and are you hoping because the way it laid out here I thought these were kind of like what you had but are you asking that we have a meeting at like each of these weeks do are you what are you looking for I think maybe we so what do we have here if we look at starting next week we have one two three four five six seven we

48:29 have seven weeks before the the third I would think we should meet at least three more times so maybe we aim for that like every two weeks but then as we lead up to the third maybe we have an extra meeting just knowing last year I think that’s what we did and I think this year is going to be absolutely if not more fun than last year so it doesn’t to check in even if it’s you know but like you know some of the items we talked about today could be on next next week’s agenda um or the next meetings agenda to discuss kind of us better understanding other Revenue sources metrics anything you guys the special education um things like that just kind of make sure we’re not forgetting to address what we’re agreeing upon would you

49:17 prefer um just because we have April our February vacation coming up um and as fun as it is to have these meetings with six kids in the background I don’t know that everybody’s enjoys it as much as I do um would you prefer we meet in one week or three weeks three weeks is probably fine and then we go every other from there until the last week okay all firm updates on our side hopefully by the by tomorrow again of course like we have a quorum if two of three of us are here so if one of us can’t make it for one meeting I don’t think it’s the end of the world especially if you’re recording them um so that would be great Zoom works for everyone I think that’s the easiest but you know happy to meet in person I thought when we met in person last year at Brown

50:04 School towards the end sometimes meetings in person I don’t know you just get a little bit of a different feel so we want to do that later on but leading up till that I think Zoom is probably easiest at least from our perspective we struggle with the text sometimes with limited resources when we have our other meetings so we appreciate you guys kind of leading these ones and taking the lead no problem um all right so it sounds like we’re good to reconvene at three weeks um we’ll try to get you this tracking sheet as we move along um through the process we have put out the book um anybody need a hard copy oh no the book you sent no or posted that’s fine for me yeah and then I’ll get the link I I actually didn’t uh haven’t had a chance to look

50:54 at that in detail I do have a question if I if I sounds like you’re ready to wrap up no no um I don’t have to get anybody till three o’clock today okay I’m good um on the budget tracking sheet thanks for sending that out Michelle um I just had a question um the as we go forward it says um what did it say reduced or eliminated most uh elimination of most Staffing requests uh obviously we’re going to continue to um be have Clarity into what Staffing requests are still in the um still in the plan right and yeah and the other thing was

51:39 um positions proposed to be cut is that um a result of um I I listened into the budget um Workshop presentations actually I think I was in the room right did I go to that I think I did um on and um on on those there were several um slots in these in the salary sections where it said repurposing um repurposed position or something like that my presumption was that meant that there was a retirement or some other elimination of a specific uh position planned a planned change that you were repurposing with a with a new ask which

52:30 is in in normal conditions that would be fine is that the the line item the 538 or 539 426 that’s um where it says positions proposed to be cut are you basically eliminating those quote unquote repurposed thank you yeah that so the reason more than that though isn’t it it’s anything that’s on school spring right now that’s vacant but we don’t have yeah no so so the elimination of the Staffing request includes all Staffing requests except for two there’s two there’s currently still two positions that we’re requesting at this time um they’re both both um adjustment counselors for a lack of a better better name um in the positions proposed to be cut

53:16 there were some Cuts already in the budget um that were already in the initial ask and then the repurposed positions are included in the Pres they’re included in that 539 000 reduction and additional positions that are currently vacant um that can move forward without I mean it’s not ideal but we are not we don’t have a body in those positions right now so with this positions proposed to be cut there is not necessarily a specific employee attached to those right now um so therefore we don’t need to increase our unemployment costs due to those cuts but any additional Cuts will have to also have a correlation of an increase

54:03 and then um sorry before I forget so last year remember we talked about the like this this tracker is very good to show the summary there was that Excel document last year that showed you line by line uh that’s great I think the request this year last meeting would be that we don’t start with just like a a salary number from prior year we see every position for the prior two years whatever it is um plus the current year request and I think if possible Michelle to have different columns kind of tying out in total to that summary page saying like yes this is very difficult so then we can be very clear like far left is the initial request and every line item and then we can just see right next to it position by position expense by expense

54:51 what you’ve taken out as a result of the first thing that way you’ve taken out as a result of you know the the new kind of estimate from Thatcher you mentioned and I think that you know the build up to that first left column of the prior years and then showing that in line with that summary is then we can just you know pin points the drop the the biggest items to that for discussion um and see the full picture and I think that was a recurring theme that people were challenging at town meeting last year not saying that they were correct in that um but you know just make sure everything’s out there yep no absolutely yeah no um that is the plan that’s I’m actually working on that document um we did initially roll out that line by line item with all our salary lines it’s called our budget summary

55:39 um and it’s in our book but I literally some of these Cuts were made at nine o’clock this morning so still updated and I truly believe if I understand the process correctly we’re going to discuss with Thatcher more Monday that that estimate that he gave John presumably that’s a moving Target so that’s why I think this little gap between today and our next meeting I think there’s work to be done on both the town side certainly to provide input to you as you build your budget but presumably more on your side as well so yes but not rushed through these meetings but we we need to you know no time is of the essence at the same time it’s really a tough balance again one thing I want us to also as we’re making that Excel sheet where we’re not carrying certain line items forward I want us to be very

56:28 aware that we also legally have to go through a process of impact bargaining and John’s starting to to talk to the union about that I want to make sure that we’re not to a point quite frankly at any point on that list where we’re next to because we we have gotten to so much detail it’s no longer every single person’s salaries on there that we’re not putting next to it um that that this specific person is not getting funded anymore okay I think it’s important that we’re not putting out in the public before we can go through the proper steps that individuals are not being carried forward yeah so maybe like the maybe the cuts portion could be

57:13 kind of on its own line or something in a subtotal I don’t know but yeah yeah that’s a good point because I don’t know what I don’t want to you know step on on that that’s that’s tough to navigate so we’ll take your feet on that one yeah yeah um so we’ll we’ll find a way to do that we just want to also be cognizant that these are people very often that live in our town too and that we don’t wanna you know there’s a fine line right um I do I do see a hand so if we’re at if if the joint committees don’t have more to discuss I’ll go to quickly pop public comment before I adjourn us Allison was there anything that you wanted to do with that we missed I’m good thank you okay Paul Baker yeah thanks Sarah and thanks everyone

58:02 it’s very interesting um I’m I’d like to get a get a clarification on what’s happening with the coffin and evolith properties I mean the Brand’s been open for what 15 months now and these two scores are empty um given that the Gary eventually sold for 700 800 000 I’m sure the coffin and Evelyn’s properties are worth more than that especially in the current uh you know uh building Market um why hasn’t the school committee voted or even brought it to discussion as as to sending those schools back to the stewardship of the town and then putting them out um for possible sale and tender given that we’re so far in in the uh Pooh here with with regards to the budget town wide we’re sitting on properties that

58:52 are worth money and we don’t have any money so surely it will behoove us as a town to vet ourselves this property and hopefully with a decent amount of money as soon as possible just throwing that out there that was on our last facilities agenda and we discussed it at length um took a vote on it and we actually just posted another facilities meeting for this coming Tuesday so um I would suggest if you want to try to to attend that because that’s really the purview under that committee not this one I want to be very um very careful that we’re not you know crossing over but there’s an update for next Thursday’s General school committee members our meeting as well as it will it will um if you want to look it’s up on YouTube part of the discussion

59:39 um from the last facilities meeting so that’s all out there so happy to have you go check that out um and tune in to hear that next week okay thanks appreciate it no problem um so further questions join us at one