School Committee: February 13, 2023

Transcript captured from YouTube auto-captioning. No speaker labels; proper names and dollar figures occasionally misheard. Click any timecode to jump to that moment in the source video.

0:02 and then the document that sent got sent this morning no it’s exactly the same okay just wanted to make sure everyone had it

0:25 you know the big test is do I have that feedback that I get sometimes so far so good all right it would have happened by now um I’ll give us one more minute then call us to order um

1:05 assistant superintendent is out of the district

1:18 okay so okay so um I will call us to order at 9 00 A.M is Tom joining us I just sent him a quick text I I was under the impression he was um so I have one in the waiting room here it’s not showing me up yep here he is okay perfect we’ll just give him a minute to get connected

1:49 alrighty so we are all here um Dr Bucky had asked me to call this meeting um obviously there’s been a lot that’s happened budget wise since our last meeting uh to give him some formal direction that he can bring back to the leadership team prior to our meeting on Thursday as we move forward we’ll have the need probably for some extra School general school committee meetings that will focus entirely on budget um these are some bigger talks that we may not be able to fit into our Thursday night meetings so we’ll try to keep them to a minimum but they’ll they will pop up from time to time I’m going to hand it off to Dr buckby now um go ahead thanks sir just gonna put on my

2:36 screen the tracking sheet I think you uh received this last Thursday and Michelle sent it out again just walking uh folks through it uh the initial budget request which was uh the result of the budget workshops uh that you all participated in uh got us to a figure of 49335. um one good uh update since last uh we discussed there was a calculation error in the roll forward for contractual obligations and that was about a 500 what 539 426 no uh 584. um the program rolled everyone forward as a full-time equivalent and so the best example that I have is the

3:22 orchestra teacher she is a 0.4 at Village Point four at the high school 0.2 at the middle school it rolled her forward three times at 1.0 and so that’s the error in the contractual obligation roll forward we have positions this year as many districts have that we have not been able to fill so we looked at that list and so um were able to get some reductions there I guess I didn’t lead with the elephant in the room the town told us that our increase for next year would be 800 000 which I think Michelle is what 1.8 percent increase over the FY 23 budget

4:09 so if we have contractual obligations of 1.4 800 000 means we’re going to have to do some significant Cuts yeah I’m sorry hey I apologize that school can exams away last week so it wasn’t part of some of these meetings so that when the town uh told you 800 plus thousand dollars increased appropriation is that that’s what they’re talking about right is that just and that’s guidance that came from the state of the town meeting kind of the one point whatever percent we were talking about that is a conversation that I had with the Town Administrator Thatcher okay so it’s guidance but it’s not a hard and fast but it’s kind of what he could sign up in blood for based

4:55 on the state of the Town yes okay and then just to make sure I understood there was a roll-up error on how um partial ftes were accounted for they got rolled up as a full FTE and when you back that down to what their allocation really is it’s Nets out 584 thousand dollars on the forecast okay great Sarah do you have a question um I had a question um my Monday morning um the 800 000 that is that is what we would be given should there be absolutely no request that comes forward from the select board if that is a no override scenario okay

5:45 So based on the projection that was given at the state of the town the other night yes and in our budget subcommittee with the Liaisons on Thursday I think Alec and Sarah Allison correct me if I’m wrong insinuated that that’s not a hard number that that’s the best number that they have right now they have not they still have not closed their books so until when they close their books there’s two to three weeks until um free cash gets certified from there I’d feel more confident when they close the books because I feel relatively confident the free cash will be certified um but where they have they don’t even have their final figures yet

6:28 so from the budget workshops we basically eliminated any additional Staffing requests so that’s the 2.287 number that you see there we looked at our supply lines while uh the cost of paper has gone up 70 percent we have to attribute for an increase there we looked at other lines like professional development or travel or contracted Services uh and came up with a reduction of uh just a little over a half a million um we again have positions that were not filled this year we have looked at those for next year and feel confident that again about 539 000 of positions would

7:15 not we would not fill those uh for next year and so that leaves us at the bottom of the sheet a Delta of about 650 643 651 of additional cuts to programs services and people basically to the bottom line because we just stay up to the top of the sheet Dr bucket just so I understand I apologize everyone so the um the elimination of most staff frequent those are the additional head count that were proposed in the ask when the the heads of the respective schools kind of came forth and put their aspirational budgets together is that correct that is correct okay and so as we understood I think you said the enrollment has it was anticipated to

8:01 slightly decline next year so that’s probably net um uh reasonable uh but I guess what I worry about a little bit as you say uh positions proposed to be cut these are unfilled positions that were currently budgeted but unfilled right that is correct and so how do you feel about eliminating those from kind of the the going forward budget if they were always deemed to be necessary you’re now cutting them is it possible to carry them I guess I worry about defying them is we’re cutting them if they were necessary or are they just going to remain unfilled for another year

8:47 maybe it’s semantics but it just doesn’t feel right to say we’re we’re cutting people you know uh when it’s really just we’re not going to seek to fill open positions well we’ll need to remove them from the line item budget so they won’t be my experience has been over you know the last 15 or so years that as as we have eliminated positions whether filled or unfilled they don’t come back the following year right so they would be re they would be removed from our line at a budget and some of those right now unfortunately um for instance the ones that that would would be covering certain Services we are still um we’re still subcontracting out to

9:34 agencies correct me if I’m wrong Dr Bucky um so it’s not that there wasn’t a need this year we’re just filling those with agencies we don’t necessarily have a plan to how to make up for that need the reason why I think we started here is we are um we have to pay the unemployment for anybody that we only get it totally get it yeah cut people that you’re not going to have to pay unemployment on that’s where we want to start no I understand that adding it to the base right where you have contractual obligations whether it be to um you know uh unemployment insurance whether it be benefits whether it be long-term uh

10:22 retirement Etc I totally get that and if we’re saying that we’re unfilling or not filling these positions to the tune of 540 but it’s going to be picked up on the other side of the Ledger as an expense to external party is it really truly a savings or that’s what I’m just trying to better understand and how much is this really an offset okay also I want to make sure Megan I recognize your hands been raised I don’t want you to think we’re ignoring you so no it’s fine because I had the same question as Tom so I guess just kind of following on from what Tom said I’m I’m not clear what those positions are and how they impact our students and then as this conversation has continued it’s the same question so if we’re not filling those with

11:08 full or permanent staff but we’re Contracting out with is the plan still to contract out for those positions or will we just I guess I’m just not clear on that piece I think it depends on what the position is some of them are like a speech language pathologist that you would have to contract that service out but you wouldn’t for a tutor or paraprofessional or an aide right so try so what I’m trying to get my head around is which one of those are we actually like removing off of our need versus filling in another way

11:45 I think it would be really helpful I’m just going to interact everybody um I think it would be helpful to get an itemized list for Thursday of all these are nice roll up but we need I think we what we need to see is an itemized list what are the positions that are being eliminated what are the expenses that are being eliminated so on and so forth yep I think it’s a nice way of saying it in um because the if the need remains we’re just fulfilling that need externally versus internally that’s that’s one thing if when I read this on this line item we’re cutting it which means there’s you know whether there’s a need or not it’s gone right I just don’t think that that’s what we’re

12:30 really trying to communicate so I think it would be more helpful for for everyone to understand what that is everyone meeting the public as well yep right so the question that I have within that so we’re filling those so we’ve obviously been told the last few years when we’ve had positions that have been unfilled that that is a savings but is that 539 and so on and so many odd dollars is that actually what we would be saving or what portion of that then has to be contracted out like you said like a speech pathologist that is in an IEP that there’s only so many hours in a day for the others to cover so what is sort of where is what what are the is that the actual savings or are there are there is there less savings additionally

13:16 I think it was Tom that mentioned something about benefits and and unemployment I think unemployment we keep the benefits obviously go towards the town are is the town already saving money on those positions not being filled so is there any wiggle in there where if we don’t fill those positions again next year and state explicitly that we will not be filling those positions so that they know that those will be off of the roles for the insurance does that free up any additional money to get towards um whatever that number that you mentioned at the bottom was that I think 600 some odd thousand and we certainly yeah payroll tax and unemployment and benefits are calculated all salary so if there’s no salary then there shouldn’t

14:02 be any obligation on the other side correct on on this figure up here when we get down to the bottom there will be the added cost of unemployment so then Dr Bucky just to be clear then so on the Professional Services or kind of external expense side that 539 is already offset with what we really need to provide like speech and language Etc you’ve already calculated that in the fy24 budget somewhere else of what you really needed yes and then the question the reduction of Supply and service requests so I was really inspired by your heads of school and the things they wanted to provide new materials not everything I I appreciate we can’t do everything and there were

14:48 some things in there that specifically tied to some of the new headcount that were proposed which are now being eliminated on The Staffing class but is the 556 is that basically everything that was new that was proposed to us from the heads of school it yes and so how do we feel about that as a commit I I just don’t know what that was because I would have to go back through the January 30th School community meeting but there were some pretty unique things and specific things were requested by the different department heads um is there anything in there that’s like must have that were cutting too much on this because that I just feel like whatever the total number is at four percent or five percent whatever you know is there something that parents and other stakeholders should think

15:34 about is like we should think about investing in this even if it’s ten thousand dollars you make it up a number so I think those items are definitely items so right now the goal for today is we need to be having kind of two conversations we need to be directing Dr Bucky how we find that next 643 which actually is going to be more than that because once we start cutting into that we’re going to have to start loading it with the unemployment side so we’re probably Michelle off the top of my head I’m thinking we’re probably closer to seven seven twenty five would that be about right unemployment’s roughly 30 30 to 33 so even higher than that so we’re looking closer to you know 8.50

16:22 I guess I’m unfamiliar with what the what the goal is because so we have to have we’re required to have two one of them has to be getting to the 800. we we have to present a level funded budget that gets us to the where we are now plus 800 so that would be cutting roughly another 850 000 which is going to be again I don’t want to speak this is my understanding Michelle and Dr Bucky that 850 has to come out of essentially the staff lines it would be programs and people so we have to cut that 850. so that’s our first budget the one that the balance budget that we’re required to bring forward then the second thing we’re talking about is an override budget and that’s going to be the conversation we have at the

17:09 second part of this meeting and that’s we’ll pass the the level funded it’s not even level funded um I’m just going to call it the 800 budget because for lack of a better term um we’re going to be required to pass the 800 budgets we have to talk about what the next 850 and cuts are going to be and so that’s that first this part first part of our meeting today and then the second part is giving Dr Bucky some direction to bring back to his leadership team about what we want for that override budget and those are some of these conversations that Tom you’re bringing up now what what which of the supplies we want to bring back which of the positions but we can’t talk about bringing stuff back guys because we’re still 850 away from from um from balanced well but if that

17:56 increase in appropriation that was whispered to us after the town meeting of 800 000 whatever it’s still not a hard number that’s just guidance right plus or minus it could be less but it could be more it could be 800. I guess what one could worry about as a committee is deliberating over how we cut people right these are real people and jobs and services and yep Etc until we have real Fidelity on what that increase or decrease would be from last year right and when do we think we’ll have that Sarah we may not have I mean at the state of the town they said we’d have it in two to three days that was about a week and a half ago so we don’t as of our meeting

18:42 on Thursday there was no new guidance of when we had had to when we’ll we will have that um the tough pieces and unfortunately I think some of us have been through this in some capacity before

19:01 that 800 may move a little time but if experience is anything to go by we’re talking tens of thousands of dollars it’s going to move by it’s we’re not moving that needle in a big way so this is painful work and it’s horrible um but we have to do it um one thing I have asked is as we go through it and do these itemized lists that we not attribute means to it as we move forward um at some point that will have to happen it’s I don’t think we’re there yet um but we we do need to start eliminating positions into our programs so I will say I met with the union and gave them the heads up um I I appreciate Sarah saying not to

19:47 attribute names because the dominoes the I call it bumper cars with the Union will be significant because people have certifications and licensure in different things and depending on their longevity in the district they could move from a second grade teaching position to an unfilled Middle School uh position if their licensure is so it really is impossible to add names to most of the positions that we’re talking about right now how do you feel this from you Dr Bucky and you know kind of inspiring and leading the buildings themselves this very public discussion about finding more

20:32 Cuts right which involve head count we all know that the the kind of level Staffing it’s your job to staff the way you need to with a with a fixed mandate to keep the head count the same right yes as we talk about cutting headcount how does that impact your ability between now and end of school year until we have a budget to manage your group well it’s devastating to morale people are already asking building principals and directors if they’re going to be out of a job next year and so people will begin looking with this level of uncertainty and certainly with uh districts unable to fill positions there is plenty of opportunity out there and so I can see people you know hedging their bets and saying I don’t know if I’ll have a

21:19 Marblehead job next year or so I’m going to look elsewhere okay it’s reasonable I’m not saying that we can’t have the discussion but I just want to maybe be mindful of you know our actions and our words as we deliberate them this is tough stuff so [Music] um anyway thank you I’m sorry sir no it’s fine I mean this is this is incredibly hard I think for all of us I this is incredibly hard um but unfortunately here we are again that’s why I want we need to if I I really have to I’m gonna go to Megan Sarah and then Allison I think I’m going in order but then we really have to Circle back to what Dr Bucky needs direction from us and what to bring back

22:06 to leadership at this afternoon on what the next 850 is going to be this is not something we want to do this is something we have to do we have to present this level funded but then we get to the work of producing and talking about the override and that doesn’t involve cutting positions that doesn’t involve so we we need to do this piece then we need to do the override piece and we have to be working both simultaneously um because if we’re not capable of doing that we’re not we’re not doing right by our students in our staff because we have to get this out there um I forgot what order I’m gonna go from Top on my screen Sarah gold so to just clarify on that piece there like that that’s that I’ve got two

22:52 questions but that’s that is absolutely where we’re at right now Dr Bucky because like a week and a half ago at the meeting we sort of paused that um and and said let’s let this sort of fall a few of the pieces to fall into place and so this the 800 from the town and that we’re we’re at the point where those few pieces have fallen into place and and this is where we’re at yes okay um additionally and just Michelle or Dr Bucky direct me if I’ve missed it um I haven’t seen any of the thinking or the um information on retirements that we have um and I know it’s February but I think usually there’s a little bit of of information on that at this point and

23:39 have do we have any known savings attributable to that or known places where we don’t need to actually fill those positions that all yeah that’s a great question Sarah thank you retirements are coming in Daily um when we started this conversation we knew of maybe two and I think we’re up to five or six at this point with some pending um and so some retirement savings is already reflected in there but there will be additional okay and that’s where having an itemized list of these roll-up numbers is going to be really helpful because as as each person retires we know that we can recapture roughly about 50 000

24:24 um depending on what they’re retiring at so if we can get that itemized list of of where the savings is and then really keep this updated so that we know as we go where we’re recapturing savings Megan so just to follow on from that Michelle normally in these tracking sheets we’ve got a a line specifically for retirement so can we just add that in so we can see it um yeah but anyway those so the other thing I don’t know who this question is to I guess Michelle to you but our increase in utilities um I can’t remember and it might be in that budget book but what the total dollar value is to the increase um hey I’d like to see that and I’d like to really push on those conversations with

25:10 the town on how we manage that um because I think that’s one area where you know if we can negotiate in any way or or do something there in terms of the um Reserve fund or whatever we call it and or kind of negotiating our rates I would like to push on that piece with the town as much as possible the other as well the other piece that I want to talk about too was the special education Reserve fund because right now it’s 250 000 um that’s what the balance is but I know when we set this up and we’ve talked about it pretty much every year that the intent was to be an additional 250 every year and I think we should set you know obviously a limit on that so it’s not ever ending but that is another conversation I would like to have with the town is to utilize that Fund in a

25:56 way that was intended because then that gives us more leverage as well yeah both of those um the utility Reserve which again I said that was the increases 212 and the special ed those are great um if they would need to be worn articles and they would be needed to be funded this year at least they’re an override because the bottom line is the TA in the past we have funded them through free cash we have the town has none left we’re free cash is gone like this these numbers the 800 in includes 100 utilization of our free cash um and so in the past where they’ve been able to say We’ll dig a little deeper and free cash to balance this that’s why

26:41 there’s no wiggle room this year there’s there’s none left we as a town have used up all of it it’s gone um so there’s the wiggle room we had to kind of say okay well can we can we pad the these Reserve funds a little more all of those wiggle room areas we’ve utilized in the past to balance these budgets is gone um as far as negotiating rates for the utilities the utilities are we have tried that Connor had that conversation um about a year back and that’s when I found out the utilities are governed by Mass General law they cannot give us a different rate um we cannot re we cannot negotiate with um the light department or the water

27:28 department we may be able to negotiate a new contract on the gas but I believe we just entered one correct Michelle or we’re in the process yes gas is all set not anticipating much of an increase at all our most of our increase is in electric and actually since since you last saw this a ten thousand dollar increase for uh I mean most of our increase yes and our 10 000 increase in water

27:55 there are just one one question about kind of process you’re indicating there’s a mandate to come back to the town with a basically a budget that matches the increased appropriation that they’ve they’ve signaled to us

28:12 no that’s what we’ve been told to do Through Math General law who tells you that um it came through Thatcher and um do they have got do they have the authority to tell us to do anything we can pass through Mass General law we can we can pass our budget and then it kicks back to fincom to then figure out how to fund it that’s why we put on our warrant article placeholders what they’ll say is they’ll pass our our budget the level funded in article I don’t know it’s like six or seven whatever the article that comes through at the beginning of town meeting that says all of our budgets um and they’ll pass it through there at level funded and then we’ll have to go

29:01 for the additional in a override whether that be with the town or separate that’s still to be remains to be determined um but the level funded is what will go through that article now by Statute you know we could yell hold and and bring up forth another number the problem is you can’t get blood from a stone there’s no free cast to go to for that money there’s no there’s literally nowhere to get it the town cannot fund a number because there’s no money without a an override so essentially call it a mandate we’re we’re at that 800 without an override there’s just in past years where there was more of a buffer in that free cash we could have forced

29:47 technically them to use that there’s there’s none left and by law we cannot what is that I just because I want to understand the urgency on this so we can really be thoughtful and provide Dr Bucky the best guidance right it feels like we have to have some number like in the next week is do you have a timeline for when that has to happen well originally we were supposed to be meeting with fincom to have them vote our budget in March like around March 20 something and we would um 27th and we would back our budget hearing up ahead of that we need to have our documents released or we need to be posted and ready to go two weeks prior to that

30:33 um I mean we can keep working on it but we we need to have that those documents out by a certain amount of time ahead of time um they’ve now kicked it back a little bit I believe at this point fincom is looking on having us come before them on April 3rd so we would be having our budget hearing the second week of March the issue is we need to get this number done so that then we can start building the override because we can’t come forward with an override a week or two ahead of time before our budget hearing we’re going to need to have forums we’re going to need to have public engagement and if we have a chance of fast um so we need to get this work done and

31:18 I understand why we all want to put it off yeah I don’t like doing this either but we’ve been given this number by the town I guess maybe just again going through this for the very first time and maybe it’s a a style thing I don’t necessarily need to have from for my own perspective a detailed list of who’s going where because we know at the end of the day to get to the reductions we’re talking about that comes out of the Personnel Alliance 90 plus percent of the expense of the district and maybe as a school committee we would be best to direct Dr Bucky and um the district just to figure it out between now and then and come back to us

32:05 with what that plan is going to be because the universe is defined by the absolute number on the Personnel side right to get to that that level funded number uh uh Sarah that you were describing I just worry about the impact within the buildings if you if we demand that he come back and give us real specificity on specific names or what have you is that destabilizing for the and that’s something Dr Buckhead no we definitely don’t want names but we do need to know you know in in the budget meeting on Thursday Dr Bucky said no everything’s on the table right now and I I think right now everybody’s upset um I I think with Fidelity we need a plan we

32:52 need to know what looks like is this you know and I and I’m I’m not a superintendent I am not a principal or a director I’m not here to tell you what programs are the ones that aren’t State mandated are the ones that we caught that’s for them to figure out but we do need that information and I think the public needs that information too so that they can decide you know how the how they want to proceed um but also if I was working in our buildings I would want to know as well I mean we can have all of our staff looking elsewhere or or we can you know talk about what’s really going to happen because it’s it’s you don’t identify a problem it’s still a problem like this is still a problem

33:39 we we need to identify what by the way also if income does want our line on a budget we can’t just say we hit our Mark they like to see a line by line they won’t approve us without the line by line of what’s been reduced from different meanings of others

34:02 here’s what others think okay Allison yeah um no no worry I mean I think this is all good conversation I think I just I want to go back and make it very clear to everybody I know everybody on this call it’s clear to them but I think we need to be very clear to the public because at the end of the day it’s the public that we are going to be relying on to give us an override or not if we choose to get one and the public was very clear with what they wanted to see or not to see or where they thought our budget should be directed and the one place that it was overwhelmingly clear was that they wanted to retain our best teachers and I know we need to get to

34:48 this number and I know that that means people need to go because like Tom said it’s the majority of our budget and I think everybody needs to understand again not in this room here right now just the larger picture because I feel like sometimes that is lost that what that means is people start looking for jobs like Dr Bucky said far sooner than we even know if we it has to happen or if it’s going to happen because they need to make sure that they have jobs because these are people with livelihoods and families in town or out of town and then we’re going to lose people and class sizes get even larger than they are right now which in my opinion is significantly larger than average and so so that is is a huge problem to me and I think we need to remember that not only when we’re obviously trying to get to this number

35:33 but I think we need to remember that when we’re talking about the kind of budget or override and being very clear what we’re going to do to keep these teachers this year does not include an increase you know for the teachers that would be next year so keeping those types of things in mind as well I think is very very important if we want to really try and save this and not have to lose some of our really amazing Educators and get what we need not only from the town from this group but also from the public in June

36:13 okay so so for me that’s the irony of everything last year and and the um the untruths the mistruths that that spring forward that it was never there was never staff being cut last year there was never you know the the ask last year supported students and getting books and supported teachers and getting books into the room and things that they had made requests on so this is this continues to be the disconnect for me from last year to this year you know we find ourselves in we were very clear last year the town had been very clear that even if we were successful last year that our whole ask went straight back into the main general fund for the town this year so we could you know we could have been successful this year and still found ourselves in in not totally dissimilar place this year

36:58 but this is continues to be my disconnect is like you know

37:06 where where does the narrative come in that we’ve got a great Administration who is focused on supporting their their teachers and has been last year and has been the year before that so that that’s um you know you ask for my feelings that’s where it’s at so I just want to refocus because I’m getting this is I I get that this is hard but Dr Bucky wanted direction from us to bring back to his leadership team we are required to get to this 800 budget for lack of a better term it needs to be itemized we are not going to give a budget to fincom or the public that is not a line on a budget we’ve

37:52 learned that lesson anybody who has been at this table ever before if they think we’re just going to say well we can get there we’ll cut another 640 without it being explicitly put out to the public has never ever ever been through this process um we have to get that line item out we’re required to we’re not we’re not getting any money without it um the work has to happen Dr Bucky anyone’s arguing that at all I think first of all I was trying to understand again mandate right and so there’s we’ve been guided and so it’s in our best interest to come back and try to present kind of a worst case scenario budget which is an increase of an appropriation

38:37 of 800 000 from the town over FY 23. so we all get that we also know that 90 of our budget is head count so in order for us to save our way to success that means there will be a head count reduction whether it’s through retirements through unfilled positions whether it’s you know I think the narrative Allison brought up a good point she’s sensitive to increasing class sizes I don’t know if that narrative holds true in a scenario where we have to save our way to success it would be helpful Dr Bucky if you had some sense as to whether or not class sizes would you know be materially impacted with this because we don’t want to say that and then have it not be true it might be

39:23 very true Allison no no I mean that’s a good point yeah so we we should be really thoughtful about that thirdly I think you know I’ve asked um and the reason why I’ve asked this is what is our total spend per student in a given year and I know it’s really hard for Michelle to dig that up because the lack of historian historical records which is just nuts I know you guys are new and so it’s no way a criticism but we also want to be mindful are we increasing even with this kind of to the Bone are we materially increasing the student spend per year so we just want to have those in our armamentarium as we answer to the public um to justify what we’re doing here

40:08 so I and so Sarah I uh Sarah Fox that is I just want to make sure you feel 100 support from me in trying to get us in this conversation oh absolutely I think we’re all like I gotta tell you I meet hard decisions in my life and this is one of the hardest ones I’ve had to Wade through um which is why you know maybe I spoke in a way that made people think I think we’re we all are on the same page we know what we need to do Michelle and Dr Bucky contractually what is the date we need to notify people by um whether they’re coming back and and things like transfers and things April 15th so just so everybody understands we even if we pass an override we won’t

40:55 secure that money till I get I don’t have the vote in front of me it’s usually June 21st 22nd somewhere around there so what we’ll have to do is we’ll need to send these notifications out to staff if they’re in that next if they’re if they’re not included in the level funded and these notifications will go out in the community and we’ve all lived through this we know that because gets out in the community in like the millisecond um and then hopefully if the override passes we can then go back to these people you know June 22nd 23rd and say we have the funding and we want to keep you however by April 15th it will be out in the community who these individuals are and so that’s why we have to work on this list um and I can’t express enough how

41:41 horrible I I feel about that as a school committee do we need to have the Fidel do we need to have the ACT Dr Bucky I’m assuming you would find a way to sharpen your pencil and make these very tough decisions do I need to know the names of these people uh because I don’t know we don’t ask for we’re not asking for names we just need positions and programs but isn’t that in the same it’s like no because as Dr Bucky just said say for instance we’re saying we’re cutting something in the seventh grade well we may have a third grade teacher that has a certification for that seventh grade position so there there’s a lot of movement it’s outlined in the contract exactly what chain of command things go

42:27 through so a position does not necessarily mean so if your position in that seventh grade gets eliminated you may because your certifications actually just be moving to the fifth grade or the seventh so that doesn’t mean you’re going so there’s there’s going to be a lot of movement I would assume this year correct yes but there it’s Tom’s point is a good distinction if we say A Glover art teacher everybody knows who that is if we’re eliminating so a position has a name with it in a small District if we say one English teacher at the high school that’s different because there are 10 English teachers at the high school but people will know who it is our teacher may be moved somewhere else depending on where she’s on the hierarchy I’m giving hypothetical sir

43:15 okay yeah no I know but did you do it at a macro level one at the high school one at the you know at the elementary school in a way that de-identifies the position enough such that we don’t create more instability in the professional staff in a way that’s responsible it doesn’t mean you’re not going to do the work and it doesn’t even get to the same place I just worry about morale and stability and even just combining the two elementary schools to just say an elementary school art teacher or an elementary school second grader second grade teacher or something to limit it more I don’t know I don’t even know if that’s right I don’t know if I feel right that that’s right I feel like that’s like hiding you know I

44:00 but it’s not our job to make hiring decisions within the buildings no I no I’m just saying I feel like if it were I don’t I don’t want it to look as if we are not being transparent um at the same time I also love I mean I keep getting stuck on the fact by the way we keep talking about declining enrollment I’m just pulling up these numbers a little bit our enrollment this year is a hundred and fifty nine students higher than it was last year so we do have to keep putting those facts out in the public that we that’s great it had been declining but it is increasing and I’m I’m running those numbers right now based on some of these enrollment numbers for you the per student but so

44:46 Dr Bucky knows that he needs to go down to get level I just in the spirit of time because I know we lose some people in 16 minutes for building the override as of right now without any further direction we have that increase of it was 12.17 but we had that Delta of um the error in the program there of roughly 556. um or no 584. so I’m guessing we’re closer down to about 10 is that the number or are there tweaks in that because there’s been discussion about discussion um I think Tom brought up the phrase at our last meeting about political viability I think we if we’re going to give

45:32 direction to Dr Bucky on that we have to be cognizant that they’re developing two budgets instead of one so we need to give them that direction and not do it too late because this is a lot of work that goes into all of this

45:48 um I saw lots of hands um I’m just gonna go to the top of my screen I apologize if it wasn’t order Allison Megan was first Megan you can go ahead it doesn’t matter to me but um so one of the things we talked about our last meeting was prioritizing those requests so like what are the the number one or number two you know like the top priorities from the district so I would like to see that list and see how that impacts the the total number um and just kind of following on from the conversation like I know that we have to present this balanced budget to the town and I think what I’m hearing from this conversation is that we’re tasking Dr Bucky and his team to kind of figure out what that’s going to look like from a staffing perspective but I really hope that from a school

46:34 committee perspective we’re putting our energy into identifying what we need to support our students and staff and communicating that out to um to the town of Marblehead and what that’s going to look like that’s where I want us to spend our energy um because hopefully that is where we’re going to get to and I really want our staff especially and our students to know that we are advocating advocating for their needs

47:04 before I go on to the next person I just wanna I just did the numbers um our per student spending last year this year with this 800 budget gives us a reduction in our per student spending of Thirteen hundred fifty one dollars which is which is roughly a 7.7 reduction in per student spending from FY 23 to proposed fy24 level or 800 not level

47:34 um to an already underfunded District uh Sarah gold so in the thinking that I’ve done about this since we met with all of the principals and um administrators is you know we didn’t we didn’t cut much at all from last year’s initial requests um you know I think there are a few things that sort of people went back to the drawing board and said oh you know like I’m not sure that I have this completely ironed out so I’m going to Shell this for another year I think some of them like Dan’s um curriculum director we’ve seen that back this year um you know I think the cold reality on this is that we’ve been underfunded for so long that really there’s probably no way we’re making up that difference in one ask

48:20 um you know if we think about it in a in a more personal finance way which I know doesn’t always compute but for me it does here you know if if my personal finances have been underfunded you know I’m gonna have to get one heck of a job promotion and a raise in order to all of a sudden then be able to go out and and fix everything that has been neglected and and put off for however long it was underfunded for so I think unfortunately I know you know there’s still probably plenty of things that that could be asked for in addition to the principles asks but you know we find ourselves in this place in a rough economy where you know we’re not we’re not going to be able to keep all of these things on the list um so I think to Megan’s point you know

49:05 the the prioritized list and understanding um understanding those priorities and how they fit in with the Strategic plan for Success would be helpful on Thursday um and and so that we can sort of then take next steps in in understanding what probably needs to be shelved for hopefully you know we we make up a chunk of this this year and then um and then people can continually chip away at what is needed to get back on track here um but that that’s where my head goes as far as a directive for for Dr Bucky for his administrators okay thank you Sarah um and then I I have a little more information that came out of the

49:51 fincoming but I want I can share that after I hear from Allison and then Tom uh so I guess I might sit in an unpopular camp and that’s okay um I think we will be hard-pressed to get something giant passed from an override perspective I think we need to be really realistic about that I think that priority list the prioritization list that Megan mentioned will be critical I also think to Tom’s comment before about the viability um with the town and remembering that next year after teacher contract negotiations if if we’re going to want to listen to what the town said about making sure we’re retaining and keeping

50:38 our teachers and and giving them the increases in the salaries that they deserve here we need to realize that after their contract negotiations we’re going to have more next year that we need and so for this year if we kept it very high and tight uh for lack of a better term to ensure that we don’t lose teachers um and ensure you know any dire curriculum ads that we need that we’re missing which of course are directly impacting our students that would be my personal take on how we get to not losing our amazing amazing Educators this year with the focus being next year

51:24 um um you know adding more of that back in after we’re taking care of our teachers that’s why that and listening to the public because that’s you know overwhelmingly what the public shared um through thought Exchange thank you Allison Tom uh just a few points I agree wholeheartedly with what Megan said and I think a clear Direction on top priorities from building leadership coming back to us letting us know that would be really helpful Dr Bucky number two the universe is defined by kind of a static or slightly reduced head count to get to that you know slight increase in appropriation from the town of 800 000 so you’ve got that direction and trying

52:10 to figure that out feels like and what that I think would be important for you to communicate back to us what that means from a capabilities perspective to deliver to your students and the town you know understanding that without you know causing massive disruption in your in your buildings before we need to um I think that you know coming in as a total outside or without kids in the school system my observation and I’m sorry to say this publicly is that our school district is is really just average and it’s hard to say that it’s not a criticism of a hard-working teachers or Dr Buck give you and your administration of the school committee it’s really just how much people love this town and talk wholeheartedly about this town yet we

52:55 have inadequate investment in compounding that or deficiencies in a lot of different areas it’s my observation based on experience in other districts that we probably could do better and that’s just one observation I think number two just on political viability we can’t do everything and as we think about what’s really important I was really inspired by some of these programs that leadership presented to us I’d really like to think through what we can Institute um if it needs change horse trading things that we have now that we want to change out I mean that’s something for Dr Bucky to come back to us with and then three how we communicate this Sarah especially you Sarah Fox is the chair and you’re working with the town leadership it’s going to be really

53:41 really important because like we we proposed behavioral coaches yet nobody knows what that is do they report to the athletic director no you know we’re talking about here as school counselors or assistant principals what have you because the people that sat in that town meeting you know they don’t understand what that Nuance is so we have to communicate language that people will will support and then finally um you know this whole transparency discussion um I think is really important because I I’ve been very impressed from the detailed budgeting that I’ve received from Michelle you and your team and I’m very impressed with the presentations by leadership so I’m not sure I know there’s a lot of history to go back on and we can’t

54:26 change all that but just going forward I think this school committee should be very proud of the level of transparency you’re providing based on what I’ve seen so far in the last couple of weeks so I’ll leave it at that my TED Talk is over thank you um and Sarah I see your hand but I just want to make my point so during our meeting with Vincom the other day various things came up one of the the areas of growth that they felt they could be they would be supportive of obviously not in the 800 budget because you can’t get blood from Stone but um if we went to an override budget would be things like um any growth in our programs that would help

55:11 recapture some of our outplacements they understand that there’s legalities to that and that it’s not you build a program and then the next year everything flows back they understand that there’s a longevity to it of starting to make those Investments and it may be a a several year before you see a return on the investment but they really the the thin common liaisins we’ve been working with really seem to understand that only is there a financial benefit to our town but it’s a benefit for our students as well so they were were supportive of any Investments that would need to happen that would help with the out-of-district placements moving forward um they also we talked a lot about areas where we’re not meeting our state Frameworks yet um for instance we don’t have a

55:56 technology curriculum the state has a framework for that and outlines that in to Tom’s point about his perception of being average you know this is nothing to do with our teachers or our principals or our our leadership but we just haven’t had money to do these Investments so we need to in this prioritization list get us up to meeting all those State Frameworks you know whether it be finally bringing in a steam curriculum to so we can teach technology because we haven’t been able to do that so that would be another prioritization that fincomp had and I’m just sharing this because not you know not everybody had a chance to hear the stuff that they would be supportive of and I think we’re all supportive of and then for me um getting all of our staff to at least

56:43 minimum wage uh not all the public understands that a lot of these para positions and two have been vacant because due to the the fact that we are a collective bargaining unit or where we work with collective bargaining units we are able to not pay minimum wage to some of our employees that has not served them well that has not served us well that’s why we have so many vacancies so getting all of our employees up to minimum wage would help us fill a lot of those positions um but I just wanted everyone to know what fincom had said that they would be supportive of in those areas Sarah foreign

57:25 how popular this is going to be um particularly with the committee but I really think we need to understand from our administrators what the what the where the needs are in the district right now and we all know that we need curriculum but the you know in speaking with Dr Bucky the few times that we have since that first presentation there was a behavioral type um staff position requested at least one for every one of our buildings next year I know like I’m gonna put my professional hat on a little bit here I know how hard it is to be in schools and what kids what kids are presenting with and the and where that sets them up to

58:11 learn and how that impacts our teachers like there are not enough hours in my day to support the to support students and so I find myself in my position going to teachers to try to impart information to them so that so that we’re working as a team that’s not you know that is always going to have to happen but it is not always the most effective there you know there’s a point at which there’s a Tipping Point to that so I think we all need to keep a very open mind that well yes we need curriculum we need technology we need to pay our teachers better that and all of those should be top priorities they may not be the place to Club holes

58:58 this year maybe they are you know and and we obviously have a very different system you know I try to be very careful in how I incorporate my professional position into the public schools professional stuff but the kids have to be mentally and emotionally available so that they can learn and kids generally not just Marblehead kids not just the kids at the school that I’m at but kids generally are not okay right now and this doesn’t have much to do with curriculum it has everything to do with a stifled social and emotional connections that they were unable to make over the past few years and so when they’re coming back you’re seeing

59:44 stunted growth within those places which is then causing the behavioral issues so I think this committee you know I just want everyone to understand that when our professionals are coming back to us with those types of requests it may seem absurd and I am hopeful that when we put together our request that that we’re able to communicate this and effectively understand it that because it doesn’t make sense sometimes that we need more staff for fewer kids and that hopefully that’ll be balanced out by some of the retirements and and the and the if we do have fewer kids coming in next year that that reality is available to be captured with that but that really boots on the ground that’s where we’re at and we can have the best curriculum and the best

1:00:29 teachers on Earth and it’s going to be really hard to move kids forward and better our mcaf scores without emotional support their charges existing resources in a way that meets that need to So to that point there I and again this is where it says elimination of most Staffing requests I just want to point out that Dr Bucky had um shared with us at the finance meeting that the two that remained were I don’t know if they’re exactly adjustment counselors but they were described as school counselors um so that that is saying and I think to um Tom’s point about the behavioral coach I don’t think he was saying that it’s not needed it’s that the typical

1:01:14 voter here’s behavioral coach and they’re like what that it needs to be defined in a way that people understand the impact and that definition may be naming it something that you know may feel like a little bit more of an old school name but something that P the voters can understand the impact of I know every single keynote speaker at the mass Association of school committee’s meeting this year was surrounded around the idea that the kids are not okay okay and that until until they can be okay they can’t access curriculum um forget about learning geometry if you can’t even get to class because you’re such a mess trust me I’m living that um

1:02:01 so I I think that we all are on that page but you know the political viability piece is how do we educate the community that what these roles are because to what to what Tom said Thompson you know there’s a there’s a lot of Voters that are going to be like wait what is a behavioral coach and we need people to understand what they’re supporting and what they’re voting for because at the end of the day if they don’t we know they just vote no if they don’t understand it um Dr Bucky we’re hit we hit 10. is there something you didn’t get from us that you need to get you from now until Thursday I know you have several meetings planning stuff between now and then yeah we can have the prioritized

1:02:48 list uh to you by Thursday and a general accounting for the eliminated positions without getting too far uh down a rabbit hole of identifying in individual okay and then for the expenses a little bit more detail when you say professional development have we eliminated all costs of professional development pretty much okay so that is a downstream effect too um all right so yes we did okay and then we’re at are we out of Esser uh there’s a little bit left in Esser and it’s earmarked for uh social emotional uh stuff that Sarah was talking about

1:03:33 thank you any other questions from anybody in the committee no um anybody in the Public Public comment real quick all right um Pat Franklin

1:03:49 yeah hi thanks Sarah um I just don’t wanted to make one comment um in your summary of our uh finance committee oh do you want me to put my video on too you’re fine whatever you want to do okay um uh on the finance committee liaison uh subcommittee meeting we had um the uh there were there were lots of discussions about and things that need to be considered um and what I would just suggest is to um at this point saying that the finance committee liaison subcommittees was in support of specific things might be a

1:04:37 little premature I’m clearly because I stated more information yeah yes and particularly when you said it’s clear that um information regarding the um what it would take to meet minimum State framework information things like that um that that that’s some to we we certainly are interested in um understanding what those costs are but again like you said this is this is blood from the stone kind of thing and yeah um and the staff to minimum wage we we just don’t understand that um I think it’s pretty clear that you know for a long term strategic planning

1:05:23 strategic planning strategic planning um considering um

1:05:33 how how to potentially go about reducing our special education costs and that’s that was actually my particular my specific suggestion so I can certainly say at least on a personal level I support that but um the rest of it is you know where it’s work in progress just exactly like everything else you guys are doing so thank you thank you Pat

1:06:02 um okay so without further Ado I will adjourn us at 1005 and see you all on