School Committee: October 27, 2023

Transcript captured from YouTube auto-captioning. No speaker labels; proper names and dollar figures occasionally misheard. Click any timecode to jump to that moment in the source video.

0:03 the policy subcommittee meeting we are going to be live streaming and recording this just going to give it a second before I call to order to make sure the live stream

0:15 starts Sarah is that all set do you think got Sarah hosting this you are live I’m just here to make sure that I can run the live stream but I’m not gonna participate otherwise okay thanks um okay welcome um my Al hi Michelle hi everybody hello so um I call to order at 12:01 and let me just see the agenda we have public comment right out of the gate so if someone would like to anyone would like to do public comment you need MIM has our hand up we have a hand already okay so uh MIM can you un here we go unmute I’m unmuted and I also would

1:02 okay love to see everyone and have them see me but I have a million tabs open so let me try sorry that’s okay

1:12 worries you see me all right yeah and now I have to go back and find my prepared statement um well thank you very much uh my name is mim L Wallingford Road thank you for letting me address the school board policy committee uh on a potential flag policy I’m coming to you as a Marblehead parent uh member of the human rights campaigns parents Council and New England steering committee and a volunteer with the ADL norshore Advisory Group and a board member of keset the country’s largest Jewish lgbtq plus advocacy organization I’m also an Israeli American a proud dual citizen with three siblings in Israel who are enduring the effects of the current crisis and I want to urge

1:58 the school board to unequivocally defend the ability of our schools to display flags that indicate inclusion and safety in response to challenges faced by our students with marginalized identities I’m speaking specifically to the black lives matter flag as well as potentially Pride Flags in June and throughout the year during the recent speculation um ADL came forward with a statement stating that black lives matter as a national group is does not have the power to dictate what symbols and statements the Affiliates uh are using and having said that I’m also disappointed that the National Organization has not condemned some of the very openly anti-semitic and

2:47 cruel logos and um and memes and statements that some of its local affiliates have put out there however I think that the powerful statement of conscience which is black lives matter is very important and uh still very needed at a time when systemic racism permeates many of our country’s institutions notably criminal justice systems so I would argue that stripping our schools of the ability and I’m not saying that is what is being contended or thought of but this is a prophylactic comment I’m hoping that we do not strip our schools of the ability to show solidarity and support for students who face these bias induced disparities in everything from physical mental health

3:35 uh socioeconomic and education outcomes because the very purpose in my belief of a public education is to enable and upli uplift all of our students so that they can be full participating members of society and citizens and I think that anything that uh creates more Division and um a sense of marginalization and otherness will do in fact the opposite and uh will create further division in our community so I am hoping and very hopeful that this very thoughtful board will make uh the decision to allow our schools administrators in particular to on on a case-by casee basis determine if

4:21 certain symbols and flags will be uh better beneficial to the Greater Community and I think that such a flag as black lives matter and such a flag as the pride flag is absolutely an indication and uh of safety and Inu inclusivity that we very sorely need during this trying time thank you for listening to me thank you MIM appreciate it okay um any other hands up I don’t see any others okay I yeah no I don’t see okay I’m going to then move on okay um our first uh policy we have for discussion review was presented by sorry Jen we do have one

5:07 other hand up right now sorry okay I’m gonna uh MIM I’m gonna lower your hand if for some reason you wanted to speak again oh no I didn’t I just forgot to do that okay no problem I’m gonna low that and I think we have uh cazzy kall hey kazzy hi hi this is kazzy um this is Agony for me thinking about what what we’re faced with right now with the struggle to acknowledge in our schools um individuals while at the same time protecting free speech um the right to self-expression I I honestly don’t know

5:57 what the solution is um but for me I think that having a flag policy that primarily recognizes what brings us all together like I know we have kids in our school systems who don’t live in Marblehead but they go to Marblehead schools and that makes them one of us and we all live in the state of Massachusetts um which brings us together and we all live in this amazing country which brings us together and like me me I was I’m I’m I actually have trational I’m English Irish and American all at the same time I’m English by birth I’m Irish by Heritage and I’m

6:46 American by choice and these things to me are so important um my culture is important to me all three of them my history is important to me all all three of them and those are the things that I think that we need to focus on is what brings us together while at the same time recognizing that we are individuals and we are all unique so as far as a flag policy in schools I think I would like to see our town our state and our country be prioritized but at the same time allowing for or as Mimi said on a

7:35 case-by casee basis the recognition of individual cultures and and ways of life however I don’t also I’m trying to struggle with the definition of the word flag is a flag a sticker is it a poster is it a piece of fabric um does it need to be flown from the flag pole should it have a place within the walls um you know as far as for example I’ve said this before I think that politics and religion should be taught in schools but not practiced in schools so a for example in a geography classroom it makes perfect sense to have the flags of the world represented in a geography classroom in a guidance counselor’s office it makes perfect

8:23 sense to have rainbow flags and identity Flags there but does it need to be on our flag pole does it need to be in the hallways um I don’t know I really just don’t know um I don’t know if the safest the easiest thing the kindest thing to do would be just to have a blanket no Flags but those that represent everyone but have a place not necessarily a flag pole but a wall a classroom a display that recognize others um and even when we talk about Case by case who who are we to say that only one position is the right position somebody mentioned earlier um to me that the Gadson flag or

9:08 the Confederate flag or another flag that may be incredibly important to a different person by if by including some do you exclude others if by excluding some do you threaten them I honestly don’t know um but I I do think this is a really important conversation and I’m really really glad to see it um on the agenda and if this needs to move on to the town if this burden is too great for the school committee to to shoulder if this needs to be a town supported position then um maybe that’s a conversation for another day also but for today um I just want to say thank you for Jen and Allison because I think no matter what what you ultimately end

9:53 up deciding as far as the flag policy you’re going to make some people very unhappy While others will be relieved um and it’s never ever easy knowing that no matter what you do someone will think that you’re in the wrong so cheers thank you Cassie appreciate it um MIM has your hand up again let MIM I’m gonna hold on one second and just we had a couple of folks who jumped on since we started so I just want to see if there’s anyone who has not spoken yet who would like to make a

10:31 comment um Cindy Cindy Tower Loan I’m going

10:38 to here Cindy can you did you unmute yeah I did um I’m I apologize for arriving late so I unfortunately did Miss um some of the comments or perhaps some of the discussion I’m not sure we just we just started public comment C so you missed yeah had just a couple couple comments Thanks Jen important ones don’t get me wrong but thank you um and I apologize for the fact that I’m not you’re not looking at me but you really don’t want to look at me right now so um anyway you know um as um many of you know I am part of the Marblehead head racial Justice team I’ve Marblehead racial Justice team I’ve

11:24 also um been involved with um other marginal groups minorities Etc and um you know I was very disappointed when um it was brought to my attention that the um Banner had been taken down um I obviously am happy that the black lives matter Banner is back up um unfortunately we are now dealing with um a policy piece um as opposed to to a particular School whatever um and perhaps even not even having the um New

12:10 interm superintendent um’s um input here um so you know

12:22 um I heard what kazzy said and I agreed with some parts of it but I actually think that M dos pardon I I think that would I don’t know it may have been someone else on I’m not sure who that was Cindy I apologize for whomever was I don’t see anybody else unmuted okay thank you I wasn’t sure anyway um so I you know um in our society you know we have elevated elevated um over so many years the whiteness and you

13:08 know my concern here is by not being able to have a black lives matter Banner in particular okay is that you know what message are we sending to our um Boston families what message are we sending to Meco headquarters what message are we sending to um anyone that is a person of color that feels isolated already and so you know we talk about inclusivity but do we really embrace it and how do we embrace it and I do believe that you know um having you know I don’t look as black

13:53 lives matter in terms of what that message is as a political or religious um um meaning other people disagree with me okay um but you know same thing in terms of the pride flag okay is that you know there’s controversy in terms of the pride flag and again what message do we send um you know one of the initiatives that um of the five was um um diversity Equity inclusion and you know are we are we still going forward with that because this this is where I believe that in order to go forward with those initiatives we need to go forward with

14:39 this type of thing okay just like um the other night when you guys supported um Michelle Cresta in terms of her message because the message was about the um horrific timing of loss and what was done okay and it wasn’t so much as not acknowledging Palestinians it was about that particular incident and how it rocked Israel how it rocked so many people people here that have people over there so that’s where I stand um you know it’s obviously my opinion you know you guys know what I do Etc and um for

15:27 me not to be a part of this conversation I just you know made sure that I was available today so that I could have a conversation and public comment here so I appreciate um the time and thank you for listening to what I have to say thanks Cindy um I have a couple other folks May me so I’m gonna go through the ones who haven’t spoken and I will come back to you okay um I had uh Renee Sidman was the one that was next Renee hi everybody my name is Rene Sidman I am the mother of um a 10-year-old at Village and um a freshman at the high school but I also have the perspective of having had a foster

16:14 daughter of African descent um for multiple years in my house and and in the Marblehead public school system and living in our town and I’m also Jewish and I’m also a leader in the Jewish Community I was president at congregation sherat hay and I also truly truly with all my heart appreciated the undying support that came behind Michelle’s message and also the S the the school committee and what you guys really let everybody know your um your support last week and I truly appreciate that um to to have this conversation about whether not we should

17:03 have a black lives matter um flag at the high school is heartbreaking to me it’s heartbreaking as a person who strongly feels racial Justice and was a mother of a black child in this community who did not feel welcome she noticed that she looked different she noticed it to her poor and she was little and she noticed it and that flag is such an amazing visual indicator that you’re welcome and that you’re seen and that you are heard and that is also important for our white

17:50 children to see that and to understand that and to feel that and you know if the if the message is also let’s hang the Israeli flag up also at the high school or wherever sure let’s have this conversation um but for what black lives matter represents regardless of a handful of affiliations that we may not agree with the national National support of black lives matter which was also backed by all of the local rabbis in the community all of the local local rabbis supported having that flag up at the

18:35 high school we need it there and there should be a policy about having these open conversations about what flags represent what we believe in as a community and what we don’t believe in as a community and I think that’s an okay policy to put forth and to be leaders about um but I strongly and again as a mother who had a black child in this school system I have the perspective with my white privilege of knowing what she felt and how she felt perceived here and that would have been a huge important flag for her to see

19:22 even at Glover where she was so thank you for your time and I’m happy to talk to anybody off off the meeting if they have any questions or concerns with what I have to say thank you thank you Renee Jen can I can I make a a say something for a minute here please um I was looking for my raised hand and apparently I don’t have that when I’m a co-host so I apologize um I’m not sure what the messaging out there was but from the first few comments we’ve had it appears like this is a discussion to take the black lives matter flag down and that is not what it is here for um I have received a lot lot of Correspondence in support of keeping the black lives matter flag up I have also received a lot of Correspondence

20:09 requesting where is the Israel flag so this actually just revealed an issue that we have within our school committee policy we do not have a policy on flags and if certain flags are allowed to fly we really need some guidance who is to make that determination who can put flags up who can put Flags down how long are they flown for or displayed for in whatnot so I sent a request to the school committee last week asking for some guidance on this matter this is not an issue to take down the black lives matter flag um this is really to provide guidance and to see what that guidance would be whether it’s only to allow certain Flags whether it’s to allow all sorts of flags um so it it seems like the message out there somehow got spread

20:54 throughout the community within the past couple days that this is a matter of taking down the black lives matter flag and that’s not what it is the flag did come down earlier um that was by an unauthorized individual the flag is back up so at this point we have not changed any of our flags that were flying at the beginning of the school year um but really we just found this this opportunity to take up this matter for discussion and to get some feedback to be honest um through all these comments I’ve received in the community I was looking for feedback from the students and I have been asking and asking for weeks now can I hear from the students I want the students voices to see how they truly feel because when the Black lives matter flag was first displayed it was

21:39 as a result of a student-led movement um and so therefore I’m just looking for feedback and that’s what I’m asking the school committee to do is is help us with feedback help us with some guidance on on how we move forward on this matter um so I just wanted to cleare the air that this is not an issue of taking down a specific flag at this time thank you thanks Michelle and thanks for doing that you kind of read my mind because I felt like we were going down going in the wrong direction Ro yeah which was not what the point of this is but I but I want folks to have the opportunity to speak I’m gonna call we have a couple other hands up which we’ll get to um Allison and Michelle I’m thinking at this point we might agree to take U the agenda out of order and after the public comment maybe go right to the flag discussion Banner discussion and then I’m sure everyone will stay tuned for the student email and Internet Posting

22:26 guideline policies which will be of I’m sure interest everyone but we’ll just switch it in in the interest of people’s time I have sorry I do have a hard stop at one i’ I have a work meeting at one but um I I could probably push a few minutes I I know we’re meeting on Monday um also but just to let you know okay um I’ve got two so I’m gonna go now I’m gonna hopefully try to do another maybe five or six minutes of comment and then we’ll move on I’ve got charman do you want to go ahead charman hi Shan H Reed Street I have a senior at the high school I started a conversation with Dr Bucky three years ago or two years ago I can’t even remember at this point on flag displays and the lack of us having

23:14 a policy as a person of color and knowing looking at this call seem to be the only person of color on this call I find that flag offensive my children do not Define themselves by their skin color nor do I my mother is black she never never taught us to go by our skin color who that’s how it defines us I don’t think and I know this conversation isn’t because of the black lives matter flag just on flag policies but it’s very hypocritical to put one flag up and not any other flag and I had this conversation and I still have the emails that I had with Dr Bucky but he was a hard stop on any other flag until Karen push to get the Israel flag up which vanished nobody can find it we even contact Mr Bower he doesn’t know where

24:01 it went so going forward I really hope that the school committee will consider taking all Flags down until a policy is put in place and then address it from there the American flag or the state flag should be the only Flags in school thank you thanks chman um okay quickly I’m gonna hop to mimie he yeah so uh Michelle I just wanted to assure you uh that I fully understood that this conversation was about whether there would be a flag policy needed and I also understand the need for a flag policy what I was saying and what I wrote in an email earlier is that I would like the flag policy to enable Flags to to give the the um discretion to administrators in the

24:47 school or student groups with the help of Administrators uh to make these decisions about these flags that are very important and I also wanted to make one additional point which is that um a point of Distinction to what had said earlier um about these flags only representing a certain amount of the population um in my opinion as as a white woman black lives matter represents me too because it represents my values and my values are that in a world where frequently uh black lives don’t seem to matter that they do and that is my value so it represents my values as well as well as the pride Flag represents my values in the way I feel about inclusion and about LG btq plus lives even though I am a cisgender

25:33 heterosexual woman so that’s to the point of representation um I also want to say that any decision that would um make it harder for us to have these intersectional representative flags up um is not a neutral act it would not be an act that evens the board so that everybody feels that oh well at least some someone else isn’t getting a favoritism um the problem is in that our society whether we acknowledge it or not there are disparities and and so it will be a harmful act I believe for many many marginalized students and I thank you for listening to me today thank you thank you um Cindy has her hand back up Cindy if you could be quick because we

26:18 need to move on unless you didn’t lower your hand I maybe I’m wrong no now I I may not have lowered it but I did um put it up so um I just want to say that thank you Michelle for that clarification because you know I’ve heard a few different things in terms of not only um um a potential policy situation but also keeping keeping that flag down or not having that flag up um in terms of the high school um and I also want to thank Mimi for what she just shared because um my sentiments clearly are very aligned to the words that she um

27:05 just shared again and you know um I hope that um we keep this up until there is a decision about whether or not there will be a policy and what that policy um entails in terms of who makes that decision um you know what are the parameters Etc because I do think that this is a conversation that um definitely needs to be um had and not just um a decision in terms of the school committee so thank you very much thank you okay I don’t have any other hand so I’m g go forward okay so Alison are you okay with if we just take this on now or do you want to stick with the no go yes absolutely all right so

27:51 thanks everyone for your comments U Michelle thank you for the clarification that was that’s um clearly was helpful at you know at that time to jump in um so just so folks know and um Allison too because Alison and I haven’t been able to talk about this because we’re now in a quorum had to do it in open meeting um but some of the Genesis of this um request from Michelle and Michelle correct me if I’m wrong is we have had and I’ve received some emails and phone calls from uh members of the community who have who have felt that the the you know the flag environment that we have or banners that we have have created a hostile environment and that some students don’t feel safe and

28:39 supported in the school um and given yeah it looks like we have one more hand up oh okay oh uh Nyla okay Nyla sorry for interrupting that’s okay now this is important go ahead hi [Music] Nyla sorry okay hi um I thought this meeting was this evening so I’m a I apologize for uh coming in late and I haven’t really heard what anybody else has said um so I this I really did want to address this and I actually was writing something which I’ll send you um but you know I really feel like this is sort of an All or Nothing issue especially in schools I have one daughter who went to the high school

29:25 here for a little bit I have two one is in one is eight at Brown the other one’s in fifth at uh Village okay um I feel like all of the flags should come down like there should be no flags and the reason why is because it really turns kids into Political abstractions like there is a um there should be one place where you don’t where groups don’t really matter it’s just about who you are as a person now I do I do think that on a personal level let’s say you want to wear button

30:13 or you want armbands right that’s an individual’s right to expression right freedom of speech I mean we there was a Supreme Court case um in Vietnam you know I don’t feel like there’s should be any issue with that kind of thing um but you know it’s a slippery slope first you have the blacks black lives matter flag then you have you know you have the LGBT flag then you have you might have you know I know there was an Israeli flag put up because of the um Palestinian issue and then maybe there will be a Palestinian flag and all kinds of you know um somebody’s probably already mentioned the slippery slope of all of this um the problem is for me

31:00 particularly with the black lives matter flag is that people try to parse the movement from the organization or organizations plural because there are many and they’re different but you really can’t do that because it’s you know just my perception like if I’ve like maybe delved into it and looked into the um like the history of black lives matter and I think the you know whatever the movement is is one thing somebody else’s perception might not be that if you do a quick Google search it really just talks about you know the police

31:45 brutality and things like that um so when you see a flag you have no idea what that means to each individual person and so unless there is something where you can say this is very specifically this and this is what we mean by it um then I just feel like you we should take everything down and have just a you know I have and quite frankly when I was going to school there were no Flags there were no there was no signaling and I I hate to use the word Virtue signaling because that’s not what we’re talking about here I’m talking about like just signaling to groups of whatever whatever group that it is um that the school has a particular voice

32:31 um um it was always about the kids being able to learn the critical thinking to develop their own voice um I mean I apologize for not being super articulate here I um there’s so much to this issue and at the very very least I think that there needs to be a lot more time to and where the flag should actually Pro well you can leave them up I would think that you take all the flags down and really have some time for public comment some time to ask questions some time to do some research like what kind of um how has a school changed since the flag’s been up there like what kind of impact has the school has the flag the

33:16 particularly the BLM flag um had on any outcomes in the school has it you know has it CH I mean I don’t know the answer to these questions and I’m not sure if you guys have um you know taken any surveys for to see how that has changed emotionally for the kids like have um has it changed the rates of like going to counseling in the school like accessing counselors has it changed anything in terms of um measurable outcomes have you know for um black students but also for other students that aren’t black you know so I just feel like there’s a lot here and there

34:03 needs to at the very least be a pause button um and a districtwide one not just in the high school so anyway I’ll write some more thoughts to you guys um thank you thank you Nyla and just I would mention too to to Nyla and anybody else if you want to submit your thoughts in writing for the record we can um include those in the minutes of the meeting or not you can just send your thoughts to the school committee um school committee members so thank you um thank you everyone um and I think actually I think Nyla made a really good point that the and and I will share that also with um some of the advice of our attorney that we do need to we don’t need to rush this right we you know Alison I think we need to be pretty methodical about this in our um and I’m

34:49 going to share some of the research and the advice that we’ve received from Council um and then we’ve got I think some work to do and I think there’s going to be a couple of iterations which will allow um you know folks to have um more um chance to be heard on this um and uh we also have a new superintendent coming um at the beginning of November as well so I think we need to be respectful of that um so Allison and Michelle I’m just gonna um share uh so so my point I made earlier is that where this came from among other things is a request from Michelle and I’ve also received you know communication from people in the community that I think given everything that’s gone on geopolitically in the world that it has

35:36 it has escalated a bit and as we know um you know there have been some actions taken on on the banner or the flag came down now it’s back up so I think it’s fair and it is the responsibility of us as a school committee to to take this on um to provide guidance and policy to our Administration um in regards to to um the hanging of items or flags and Banners in our schools um so I did a some research and there are actually are a number of school districts in the state that have flag policies various types of flag policies and most of them I think like 99% of them go back to the early 1970s and one thing I did learn

36:23 interestingly enough is that there is a state statute that requires all schools to have an American flag in every classroom um and also requires um students to say the Pledge of Allegiance uh by Statute um and that’s it as far as the law is concerned so most schools have a policy around that around the flag being flags being in the classrooms and the buildings and pledge of Alle and state state stating the Pledge of Allegiance uh there have been a number and I put in the Dropbox which I can we can share after this meeting with the public um a number of school districts that have have specifically come up somewhat recently in um in the

37:09 Commonwealth with different policies around it so I’m going to give you a couple of examples um and I’m Alison you probably saw this in Michelle but this is also for the folks on on the call today so for instant nsit Mass has a a flag policy that says that the US flag will be in every classroom it will be a US flag will be displayed in every Assembly Hall stage um goes on to talk about where it is regards to the speaker to the speakers left etc etc and flown at half staff um when appropriate and that at the commencement of school every day all teachers will lead the Pledge of Allegiance um again other places like New Bedford again American and Massachusetts flags are to be uh uh in

37:57 every building and classroom um probably just one thing the most um sort of I would say responsive to uh events of recent is Framingham they came up with a policy that they approved in um October 1st of this year so very recently and it’s a it’s a pretty long policy I think it’s two or three pages long basically what they’re saying is um indoors um the policy is that the American flag will be in all class CL rooms and the Commonwealth of Massachusetts flag will be in each Auditorium indoors for outdoor Flags they have the US flag flying all year round the they call the progress flag which I think we refer to as the pride

38:43 flag displayed all year round the juneth flag the week of June week of juneth and disability awareness the entire month of July and the massachusett flag year round so that’s a lot of flags on a flag pole but um so they have uh a lot of other discussions around um non-district organizations and District events that will allow the superintendent to fly with superintendent’s approval to fly other flags this is a long policy um the other thing I will note that um and I also did some research there are a number and somebody mentioned this in the public comment I might have been I don’t it might have been um CH I’m not sure um there are

39:29 number of cities and towns that have taken on townwide or city-wide policies flag policies so that would Encompass school buildings as part of the town or Citywide Municipal flag policies and what that came out came as a result of and what our policy also will need to adhere to is um a recent Supreme Court case that our attorney uh Colby um shared with me which was uh decided in in 2021 and some of you may be familiar with the city of Boston and the City of Boston city council allowed they had a flag poll and they allowed organizations to fly to apply to fly their flag for one day and they had many different flags from different organizations and

40:17 they turned down one organization’s flag and that went through the court system and the Supreme Court case came back and said for municipal Properties or yeah proper as far as Flying Flags if the organization or the or the government Authority is allowing Flags to be flown as sort of a First Amendment right then you cannot say no to any flag any organization has to be allowed to fly their flag if that’s the purpose of the flag poll however the authority the governing Authority can control or approve what goes on the flag poll if it is determined that that is the sentiment and the statement from

41:04 the governing body right so if this so if the city council of Boston says okay we’re going to approve what goes on and it’s a reflection of what our board believes our sentiments then that’s allowed and that’s what a lot of these town and City policies are reflective of I I put into the box um Allison and Michelle I did the town of peppol and the town of lynfield and they’re very similar um but basically they’re saying that you can apply for it and the select board will decide um if it’s they want to have representing them so that is what the law of the land is and that is whatever policy we come up with we have to fall within within that um so that’s something we need to sort of think about

41:51 um in my conversation with Colby our attorney she um also mentioned there’s there’s a couple of different options where this fall under I sort of threw out a number that I created the policy CN but this actually will fall either under IMB which is normally uh um I think it’s observations and ceremonies um policy under instruction or what a couple of districts did including Norton and stoton was to put it under khba which is signage and advertising policy because that’s a separate policy that determines what kind of advertising if any we allow in our school so that’s just something to think of um

42:37 Alison I didn’t put in the Hadley flag policy from Hadley Mass which I actually thought was pretty good so I thought maybe Google it right now then if I share my screen where am I where’s that all right now I probably don’t have it here hang on I’m Googling it on my side um yeah I’m going to pull it up though just but let me just everybody bear with me a minute

43:07 here sorry I have a h hard copy so it’s Hadley uh kg here we go okay I’m gonna sh God help me here I’m going to try to share my screen let’s see if this is

43:24 it can everybody that did that come up no hang on is that on the screen yes okay good all right so the Hadley policy says it shall be the policy of the in this case hady school committee to only permit the flying of the American flag or banners the Massachusetts flag or banners and in on school grounds and or in school buildings any group organization wishing to affix a flag or Banner on school grounds and or school buildings must submit a written request to the school committee along with a picture or drawing of the proposed flag or Banner showing all measurements and colors requests will be reviewed and approved or denied on a case-by Case basis no decision by the school committee will be considered precedent setting setting for future requests including the same group or

44:10 organization so I’m going to stop sharing again um so that I’m just throwing out as a you know sort of as a place to maybe start because that would keep us within the legal uh REM boundaries of that Supreme Court decision and I think it’s a little bit loose in some ways which we would probably need to tighten up um I also like the idea of adding in that it be in the American flag be in every classroom um and properly placed in the auditorium Etc and also we could throw in the mass the Marblehead flag because there is a Marblehead flag yeah I learned that when I went to visit representative armeni at the State House that there is a marble head flag and I don’t know that we have

44:56 them in our buildings now but we could and should um it doesn’t have to necessarily that may not have to be in every room but maybe you know auditoriums in auditoriums possibly um so that would be sort of the standard um and as well as we can talk about outside the building because we’ve got inside the buildings and we’ve got outside the buildings and then you know do we want to have this process where requests are submitted for flying another organization or political flag or country flag or what have

45:38 you I mean I think we have to have something like that right can’t I certainly don’t think that we want to go down the path of allowing anybody to just put up whatever or take down yeah I mean I think clearly Michelle you can jump in here I mean I think clearly the need for the policy is so that we have got guidelines for our administrators so on a day-to-day basis or month-to-month basis our administrators understand you know what the process is for that because it isn’t fair um you know to have it you know have it this fall on the shoulders of Administrators who who uh don’t have any guidelines on this right exactly that that’s why I really had requested some guidance on this um because it became apparent that

46:25 um without a policy it just leads for the potential of all kinds of requests or you know right now we we have no guidance in terms of who can put a flag up who can take a flag down um is it up to a principal is it up to school school administrator is it up to just the students or the staff so really we’re just looking for some guidance I’m not looking to ban All Flags by any means that’s not the intent here um it’s really to provide guidance and to give uh a fair opportunity you know for everyone to be heard and and I do I agree this process is not to be something that’s going to be rushed through by any means it needs to be vetted it needs to be discussed so this is just the starting point um so the new superintendent certainly will be involved in these discussions going forward and this is not something that’s going to be decided this week or next

47:12 week or you know not even necessarily in the next month or two um but it’s something that is clearly missing and we just want some guidance I think uh so the other thing I’ll just mention too um that uh so I we just looked at Hadley flag policy um stoen also and they actually had um an incident that took place I think last year that um caused them to go forward with their policy which is also a signage policy it’s sort of signage and advertising um and they there says uh the stoen public schools shall not permit any individual or group without the authorization of a SPS Sten Public School administrator as set forth therein to place any sign Banner flag

47:58 advertisement proot promotional material written statement or equivalent promoting a personal political view or other such items on building grounds on school buildings grounds Transportation vehicles or other property so um it was sort of a shall not versus Michelle um but it does say that their administrators are permitted to authorize the play placement of such items on the following conditions one the items must relate to or be in the furtherance of the district’s educational goals programs activities or events which does fall under that Supreme Court case and two items are subject to review under the Equal access to equal Educational Opportunity which is a state a yeah state law um any such items must be approved in advance by the

48:45 pr building principal the superintendent of schools or the school committee as appropriate under the circumstances in accordance with this policy I don’t know what that means exactly but um maybe it gets escalated if that’s an escalation process I I don’t know um so that may also be something to think about um because one of the things that we need to Pro so if we go forward with a policy which generally is often uh I don’t want to say vague but you know doesn’t account for every particular situation that could arise then we may Michelle want to also have sort of protocols for the administrators because are we talking about flag poles are we talking about walls this is the case in the cafeteria like what is this

49:30 Encompass I think probably that should be the decision of the Min administrators in The Bu administrator of the building Allison yeah well I think that we need to make sure that this encompasses all of those things and doesn’t leave any we can’t always attribute every outlier I know that but we attempt to Garner as much of it as possible so that our administrators have their like Michelle said have clear guidelines so that there isn’t confusion and if we need to have an escalation process I think that’s fair as well I mean I would imagine it follow the same path as and it’s our

50:17 other escalation processes yeah for any other request SL complaint right okay um all right so in the interest of time because it’s nine minutes before one um do do you want me to take a stab uh Allison at sort of taking this Hadley policy and maybe putting some of this about the district’s goals and um um sentiments being in there because that does need to be in there according to kby um yes and then I can draft that I

50:51 will send it to co I’m trying to because I’m trying to think how we do this because you can’t she has to approve it right yeah you can’t look look at it and obviously talk about it with me offline so let me send that I’m just trying to think about the meeting process so I’ll send it to Colby have her look at it and then we can reschedule you know a followup um say for next week and just see if how we you know how we feel about it if we want to tweak it and um go from there another opportunity for folks to speak um Michelle maybe you could bring I could share the draft with you for your admin meeting do you think that would be appropriate absolutely show that to the principles because they certainly may have some thoughts about it yep I would love keeping in mind that we would if we if we go forward with some form of policy that there would be

51:38 also a there’d be some sort of procedural process I don’t know if that goes in the handbook or how how just generally how that would work um so that they have actual like to-dos as a result of the policy absolutely and I I just want to mention just for the public out there um that in order to EST establish a policy to follow the guidelines or to follow the policy within the policy to create one um it really takes three readings of a policy before it can become adopted so um where we do not even have a policy drafted yet really that we’re not we’re we’re not having a f first formal reading of a policy this is going to take at least three more additional public meetings um so I just wanted to share that for the public yeah I think that goes along with your comment earlier about we’re not this isn’t

52:25 something we’re looking to rush no by any stret right we will bring we’ll bring Dr mcginness in when she starts and also I need to check on we probably also can air on the side of you know sort of um caution here in terms of the reading because I wouldn’t consider this a reading like I think we need to get a draft and then we we have three distinct meetings one or two of which would be the full committee um and then the um the full school committee has to vote on this as well so there’s going to be opportunity for all also for the for the public to to speak about this um anyway so no so I I really appreciate seeing the involvement we in the comments we did today hearing them um I think it’s really important for for

53:10 us to hear that and the committee as well and we encourage more people to reach out with their absolutely with their thoughts feelings Etc we welcome that yeah absolutely thank you for stating that okay um I had it’s inherent Michelle I know but I just want to say I know appreciate so um I had prepared a statement I’m just going to say it real quickly because I just so we can get into the record I can give uh lee a copy of this um but in coming into this many community members um have have expressed you know concern around this this issue of flags and the policy and our our and I believe my priority is to support all of them a core tenant of inclusion is that we stand for a community we individuals of all identities and

53:56 backgrounds are appreciated and respected and we recognize our shared Humanity we will strive to treat each other with respect and care even when we disagree and that we all support each other’s safety and well-being as everyone in our schools should feel safe and the work that we do the school committee the superintendent the teachers and the staff should be to support and Safeguard our schools and make us stronger and move us forward with each of us striving to be inclusive rather than divisive and to support all of our students so I just wanted to have said that at the beginning but um I think that leads you know I think that mixes well with with this proposal so I will do that I’ll get it to um Colby and I will we can talk offline about rescheduling the or scheduling the next meeting Alis we have a hand up I don’t

54:44 know we wanna we have a um oh yeah we do um all right how are we on time here um yeah we only have four minutes but I just have a quick question Jen you mentioned about um um following up with um a letter and that it would be part of the minutes so is there a time frame on that in terms of this particular meeting you mean how quickly will I get the minutes no you can get that in you know whatever um let’s say can it like a maybe a week was it is a week enough okay I just did I just didn’t know if there was a hard stop like today no oh okay okay no it just we’re gonna have other meetings yeah as well it was just that Jen had um mentioned

55:32 that earlier and it was after um the public comment so I just wanted a point of clarification there that’s all thanks thank you and you can just email it to me Cindy and I’ll get it to the minutes okay so we need to jump real quickly to um so thanks everyone for coming you’re welcome to stay um but we’re going to jump to policy i j and db- which is the student email and Internet Posting guidelines I’m actually going to share my screen again uh is that is that up there can you guys yes y absolutely okay so this is the one that is proposed uh I did do a quick review of it it looks to me basically Michelle it the previous one that we have currently

56:19 has the grades um a different configuration of grades and we didn’t have prek um in the earlier one um but basically the guidance for each of these grades are the guidance is similar it’s just sort of change the grades probably with the school buildings is my guess C do you have another I just wanna Cindy do you have another question I don’t W to miss that your hand no I do not I no that’s fine just want to make sure thank you yeah no Jen you’re absolutely correct the grade configuration has been um more aligned to our schools at this point um and then there’s one other difference so it is it it’s now encompasses or the proposed policy encompasses starting in prek because our students do start in Pre in some instances and then um it

57:12 actually previously for grades six to8 it just said it an email may be provided by the district now it actually says for up to grades eight um email may be provided you know or students may be provided with a school email account by the district with limits on messages sent and received by the students and then it just includes further authorization it just basically restricts the accounts a little bit more um so that that verbiage was not in the current policy okay so really there’s no substantive changes but really to become more more in line with what our practi is right now okay and was this vetted by Colby or did this come from masc or it has not um we can certainly run it by Colby just to

57:59 be sure did you write this or or did Steve write it or how did that Steve edited the current policy okay in regards to um some of the wording that is in the existing policy right now all right so you know what I think I may do um is I’m going to so I’ll consider this the first reading and by the way for the record when we talk about a reading it we don’t actually have to read it it’s just presenting it no because some I think years ago they used to actually read everything we’re just presenting this I’m actually going to send this to uh Dorothy at masc um because uh there’s not a charge for that and and just have them look at it they may be willing to have their attorneys look at it um and tell it you know just to review it if not I think we should probably just shoot it over to Kobe we just want to

58:45 make sure agreed Absolut cover my my only questions on this I know I’m the one with the hard stop maybe I can start my other meeting see ifone shows up um so with permission and guidance from a faculty member students May po like grade seven through eight I’m looking at students may post their own work on the internet as long as their parent or Guardian has given permission by signing the I PPR form so H how is that being enforced and then if that if someone is told not just in the under the guise of trying to account for the majority of instances if someone is told not to post something that they do anyways is there repercussion yeah that I’m not specifically sure

59:31 about that we can certainly ask um either high school or middle you know veteran School principal because those are the only two schools that have that allowance I just think we would want if it’s the policy I think we would want to include that part of it here not suggesting that any of our students would do that I’m just covering bases we can do that and when we say post their own work on internet does that mean anywhere or is that on a school website I I think it means anywhere and also how are we cross referencing that their Guardian has signed parent or Guardian has signed I’m not suggesting that we don’t need the parent or I want to be clear because we know how that works I’m not suggesting that the

1:00:17 parents or Guardians shouldn’t sign the internet publishing permission that we need we need that release form it should be managed how are we tracking that or correlating that back to this person post this person asked for approval they got approval they’re posting their you know their work did their Guardian sign how are how are we reconciling that as well we can certainly find that out I know Steve worked with the principles in creating this so it should not be foreign to them whatsoever the only other question too I would have um in the p uh prek through three say students may not use any individual email account okay so that would be no school account or even if they had their own for some reason had their own accounts messages may be sent

1:01:02 through teacher monitored accounts they do have their own accounts like my son had one in third

1:01:12 grade okay so I don’t I’m I’m a I’m a little confused on that as well a school email yeah okay well then maybe we ought to get some clar because my question was just I that second sentence didn’t really I didn’t understand what that meant um and maybe that’s what it is is a teacher monitored account I I never asked um it could only send so he would they would do work and they would send it to their teacher it’s when they’re learning typing right because that just is part of life now um I think I was in 12th grade typing class so now they do it in third um which is great and in an important skill I know that um um so I I know that it was used

1:01:58 and maybe that’s what the teacher monitored accounts mean so maybe just getting a little more clarification around that as well we need we need some clarification on that one then okay all right thanks Michelle so we can um why don’t we get that update maybe Steve Steve needs to maybe massage this a little bit and sorry I know I’m being um a pill okay I’m the one that has to go but on grades n through 12 it says um may post provided their parent has signed the internet form the release form but then students are responsible for knowing what their parents is I understand that I’m just not

1:02:44 just not just not sure what where that fits in with a school policy or are we just making sure that we’re you know trying to include every every possible piece by saying that and and I think that that piece I think students are responsible for knowing what their parent permission is and to abide by that permission should probably be up on that top paragraph because I would Advocate that that goes for all of them all age

1:03:13 groups yeah not a bad thing um absolutely we can certainly get more information and you I would not recommend bringing this to the full committee until we have some answers yeah and reviewing this again absolutely okay so I do appreciate the feedback here I know Steve with the principles on it but you’re absolutely right there’s a lot of questions about it when I looked at the the existing policy it says at the bottom that it is um due for Revision in 2018 so it’s been sitting around for five years it is time yeah it’s yeah it’s so I think we can wait to get this clarified oh absolutely okay so as soon as I get we get some kind of clarification and perhaps a re um rewriting of it um I can send I’ll send that to me Michelle I’ll get it reviewed by masc okay hopefully and not and then

1:04:00 when we come back Allison we’ll review it and that’ll be our second reading and then our third reading can be the school committee and that’s it okay I know you got a hop so um are we good do uh is there anything else we can figure out our next meeting uh we’ll do that offline through emails to Res to schedule which we’re allowed to do all right Perfect all right thank thank you I will adjourn us it 105 thanks okay