School Committee: March 13, 2026

Transcript captured from YouTube auto-captioning. No speaker labels; proper names and dollar figures occasionally misheard. Click any timecode to jump to that moment in the source video.

0:01 I’m going to tell you if I didn’t offend you, I didn’t do my job. Wait, I’m going to ask you a question. Sorry. I think I think I just saw something. » Here we go. Yeah. How long are we recording this for? Yes.

0:24 Okay, I am calling the meeting to order at 6:03 p.m. on Thursday, March 12th, 2026. This meeting is being recorded. We’ll start with the Pledge of Allegiance.

0:41 I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. And I’d like to welcome Dan Fox, the chair of select board. Uh, also Alec uh Grosby, chair of the finance committee, while I take vice chair of that committee, to our meeting tonight. We are looking forward to working collaboratively with the town to work on our fiscal year 2027 budget. So, Dan, I’ll soak you. Being honestly, I think that we’re going to let Alec and Molly do this. I can see they know the numbers best. Here it goes to Chris and Laura

1:26 and if I can answer your questions from the select board, I will not be able to do that. Okay, that’s good. Thank you. Yeah, so thanks for having me. Um as you guys know, as a finance committee member, I’m more of a watchdog than a director of how budgets get allocated, but in my role as watchdog, I also advise the town and assist them taking a kind of second look at things and and helping advise them on, you know, challenging situations like this year. Um I think everybody’s been following along, but there’s a very large town-wide deficit. Um Um things have been getting chipped away at on both town and school side. Um when the town was looking at how it how it approached addressing its

2:12 share of the deficit, it had to take a very hard look at what was driving that deficit. We’ve talked about for years about how there are other general government costs, I’ll call, which include health insurance, the largest, pension, um retirement health insurance for for retirees, things like that, um that are carried on the town side of the budget, but benefit both town and school, both employees and retirees. Um we’ve always heard the 60/40 split. I’ve never really gotten great analysis in past years on that. As an accountant, I actually like to see line by line. Can I see a supportable percentage? Um so when we when we started looking at this, we said, “Okay, what’s the town-wide deficit?” In one column, I’ll

2:57 share my screen here just to get us started. Um send the request.

3:13 It might be a little small, but I’m not sure if you guys are able to see uh number two Can you zoom in on the number two? I can zoom in. I’ll have to kind of go left and right at some So, very simply, if we start at that this analysis starts at what I’ll call the the 2026 balanced operating budget without debt service. That also does not include enterprise funds for people that like to check the numbers along the way, so I like to be very clear there. Where we were at last year, all town department budgets were at 47968952, and the school’s bottom line budget was 49,120,287 for a total of a

3:58 not 97.1 million. So, where we landed last year was of of that revenue figure without debt service, without enterprise funds, the schools were about 51% of the budget. We’ve talked about this 50/50 split. Um Thatcher has talked about that. Um This the finance department has talked about that for years, splitting revenues 50/50. I just want to point out that it was 51/49 last year. And and over the years, I I looked at an analysis that went back as as early as fiscal year ‘23, um it was a pretty much a 50/50 split, but there are obviously some years where there’s certain needs of each side that outweigh one another. So, that shifted over the years. But, over the last 10 years, it’s either been 51/49 or 50. So,

4:44 it it’s directional. Alex, if we have questions, do you want us to hold them to the end? » That step is is to look at what’s available for revenue this year. Okay? And and when we look [clears throat] at that » You know, Joe Yeah. Yeah. Jen has her hand raised, and I think she’s trying to I’m sure to say something. Okay. Can you hear me? I can’t hear you, Jen. Raise your hand for us. Say something, Jen. Can you hear me? Yeah, yeah, now we can. So, do you want us to hold questions to the end, or do you want us to ask as you’re going along? It’d be helpful to hold them till the end. Okay, just cuz I don’t understand where you got the numbers so far. So, okay.

5:31 The schools’ bottom-line budget from last year 49,120,287. That’s in the FinCom handbook. And then this is the town side budget without debt service and without enterprise funds from the FinCom handbook. Okay. All right. So, So, that was what was available for town and school operating budgets last year. The revenue is one piece of what’s available this year, and then there’s offsets to revenue. So, we’ve talked about this net approximately 600,000 less of available revenue this year. I kind of want to walk through the details of that cuz I think maybe you all have some questions and maybe some other people watching select board meetings have had some questions. Uh

6:18 so, where do Where do we start? Um one question I’ve heard is there was a presentation by Thatcher last week, I think, and there was a $101 million number, and people are wondering why is the available revenue just split between town and schools 96.5. Okay. So, before we start divvying up this revenue for operating budgets, there are some things that offset that revenue before we even get there, right? Allowance for abatements. So, whatever your property tax revenue is every year, before you start allocating that out, you have to put aside a reserve for people that request property tax abatements. That decreased it by about 740 grand. Any state aid you get every year, the net amount of state aid is offset by direct state assessment offsets for

7:05 things that are not in the operating budget. That was about 2.5 million. There’s a snow and ice reserve funding, which is outside of the general fund, small, 150 grand. There’s two tax levy funded warrant articles that have at least been in the warrant at the exact same amounts for the last 10 years since I’ve been involved, probably dating back before that, about 450 grand. And then there’s the Essex Aggie school article funding, which is also an article that doesn’t go into the general fund budget. That’s about 636,000. So, I know that came up at your meeting. So, believe me, as a CPA that’s working closely with this, if there’s questions about numbers reconciling, I am reconciling everything to a dollar. So, that’s that’s the split between town

7:50 side and school side, right? Another way to look at the $600,000 difference of available revenue compared to last year would be to look at that available revenue and break it down into the changes in revenue and the changes in those offsets year over year that net to the $600,000 less. So, very quickly I’ve been through this probably five times in the last 6 months, but I’ll do it again. Um property tax revenue, prop two and a half plus new growth went up by about 2.1 million. Local receipts forecasted came down by about a million this year. That was largely driven by interest income, which we’ve looked at year-to-date interest rates have come down, the amount invested has come down. Um it’s also

8:36 driven by, I believe, some of the excise tax on vehicles. Remember when we’re estimating these things, you cannot overestimate revenues. That’s that’s a recipe for budgeting disaster. So, you have to be a little bit conservative. Um enterprise funds reimbursement of town costs. So, what that means is that water and sewer and um and department or the rec department, they reimburse the town for some of the costs it pays for on their behalf that their enterprise funds don’t. That was additional revenue. This one’s the big drag. Okay, we’ve talked about free cash challenges for the last few years and the reliance on free cash has been a recurring If we’re only using 5 million, which I believe there’s about five and a half is the estimate as to what’s available.

9:22 We’re only using 5 million of that for the operating budget. If we used seven last year, right away that’s eating up the property tax revenue, right? So, that’s a big challenge. If that was even, then we would have more money to split between the two sides, right? Additional state aid came up, but then that offset kind of de- de- decreased the piece of it. The allowance for abatements came up a bit. I think we all know there’s been a lot of news about abatements the last few years, so I think that reserve is is pretty well thought out by the finance team. And it’s also the tax exemptions. Tax exemptions as well. Um increase in the school assessment was actually pretty small. And I think the snow and ice reserve was not funded last year, but I think after this year maybe we need to refund it a little bit. Um so

10:08 that’s where the 600,000 comes from. It’s It’s actually pretty simple if you if you look back at the kind of summary tab. We had 97.1 million to split between town and schools last year, and we have $600,000 left. We know both town and schools have union contracts that go up by at least 2 to 3% probably more in some years. We have steps and lanes on both sides. We have significant benefits increases. We have all sorts of things, inflation, right? We’ve talked about this. Read the FinCom handbook um or not the handbook, the report. Um I’ve referenced all of this for like three three years now. Um so that creates a huge challenge, right? So where we focused is column L to start. So the town-wide available revenue before we split between town

10:55 side and schools is about 96.5 million. Okay? What I received, Molly gave me this number, it was an updated number, your your starting point this year was 50 million 809 363 before it came down. Does that seem accurate to you all? I received a couple figures at some point, but I I think we took it from a document that was sent out. That. That. So. This one I can bring the town to bring it up. I’m going to bring it up. Um I should be able to bring that up. Uh I mean to we have offsets in ours? Like circuit breaker offset? Right. This is

11:40 only the the That’s none of that. » Yeah, not included any of that. Got you. And you found 1.7-ish to get to level. Correct. » That’s about 1.7 for the So, I had 50,736. Is that what you were showing? I think I had 509, but I think that’s within 30. That might be it. It’s within 50. Yeah, we’re we’re within 100,000 so that’s Um and then the town side, as of I think the data the source data I pulled as of 131. So, this would have been around state of the town in Munich as submitted by departments and as estimated at that time um for things like benefits that have changed since then. It was about 53.4. So, you can see there was a $7.7 million deficit. Now, that doesn’t mean

12:25 that there’s $7.7 million of cuts if we adjust health insurance between January and when it was finalized last week. That’s not a cut. That’s an adjustment to a budget, right? So, I’m going to walk through that. Um So, we’re we’re in column now. So, we have a town-wide deficit of 7.7. We’ve talked for years about, you know, the town is carrying costs that benefit both town and school side. We’ve heard back-of-the-napkin estimates of 60%. Why don’t we try to take a look at this and and see what’s driving that deficit and really take a hard look at at both sides. So, what we did was I I reviewed there’s there’s a part of the town side budget called other general government. It’s not general government. It’s at the bottom. It’s other general government.

13:11 And I asked about every single line with Alicia, um our town finance director, which of these lines have any costs, even a dollar, attributable to school employees or retirees. And the six we identified were pension annual required contribution, health insurance for active employees, life insurance, health insurance for retirees, PEC Medicare reimbursement to retirees, and the transfer to the OPEB trust. So, we started with last year’s budget, and we said, “Okay, what were the budgeted line items for each of those last year?” And then what I asked Alicia and the town finance department, which included our FinCom clerk, who’s Linda Gifford, is actually on the retirement board or

13:57 or maybe employed by the town and involved in that. Um and then, you know, folks in Alicia’s group that kind of deal closer with benefits and HR and whatnot, they worked as a team to best estimate of those line items, how much is attributable to town-side employees or retirees versus schools. I I think I’ve been very clear, Mike, the last few weeks when there maybe has been questions about this. I did not audit these percentages. I only have so much capacity in my day. That being said, they don’t feel directionally off of what we’ve talked about in years past, but if there’s questions between school finance and town-side finance about how those percentages were uh come or analyzed, then I think the sides need to work together to figure that out.

14:43 that out. that out. Um so, like like I always say when I create a spreadsheet, if there’s inputs into it, then the spreadsheet’s outcome is only as good as its inputs. So, if there’s any discrepancies there, then that that’s where it would be, but I did not audit those um part. Let’s put it that way. Um so, what we did was we looked at the budget for each of those six numbers, and then what we were able to do, I think you guys probably saw a slide that looks like this in Thatcher’s presentation last week, that sort of estimated the percentage splits of those. I did a lot of checks to make sure I linked in the right percentages. So, what we did was we took the total budgeted line items for those six over to the left, and then we took each of the percentages attributable to schools and we said, “Okay, what if we were to

15:29 take last year’s budget on the expense side and shift those costs line by line to say, “What is the true school estimated budget rather than just 49 million if we were to include the school portion of the other general government costs?” We came up with 61.3 million based on that analysis, which happens to be 63% of the 97.1 million of available revenue last year. So, it’s a little more than the 60/40, but it’s not directionally off. So, now we’ve reset last year’s budget.

16:06 Now we have to look at, “Okay, what if we were going to re-look at how we split revenues moving forward?” Just for this analysis for now, right? There’s $600,000 less available revenue this year. Let’s split it 63/37. It’s pretty close. It’s It’s not materially different. It’s 380 versus 220. Right? So, now we’ve reset last year’s budget to or this year’s budget, sorry, to what’s available. Now let’s look at those costs that I said were submitted by both town and schools at the start of this process. 104.1 million, right? Then we took those exact same line items in the budget and I have adjusted these to bring them down since

16:54 it was at 15% active health insurance. She’s reduced it to 11. I’ve shifted that to 11 in this analysis. The I believe it’s called the PEC Medicare reimbursement was at seven as of the state of the town, is now at five based on last week’s news. I’ve shifted that down as well. So, I’ve kept up to date with with what’s going on in the news and and things like that. So, when we add the costs that are on the town side of the budget today using those same ratios based on the analysis of actuals from last year to the 50.8 million, what that says is the schools had 64.2 million of requested budget before any cuts, right? Plus plus their share of the other general government lines of that budget.

17:39 And the town has only 39.9 or or about 40 million actually. So now what I’ve done is I’ve said, “Okay, we’ve shifted the revenue allocation and the expense side using a pretty solid analysis.” And from my perspective, it’s pretty economically thin uh from my perspective um as long as those inputs are right as I had said. Um so really now what we’ve done is we’ve said, “Okay, we have 7.7 million dollars of a deficit.” Our estimate is that 3.2 million is driven by costs that are in the school budget plus school costs that are in the other general other general government budget. And 4.5 million is on the town side. As of the time I did this analysis, I believe you guys had presented a budget that was even to last year. So at the

18:26 bottom I simply said you had found about 1.7 million. And now I’m saying that this analysis is 3.2 million, which is about a 1.5 a little north of 1.5 million dollar difference. That is where that number came from. Happy to share the spreadsheet that has all sorts of support data behind it and I make every every number in it to where where the data is coming from. Um that left the town with a significant 4.5 million to find um which we can talk about more in a minute, but quite frankly, this is not actually that complicated. I don’t I guess I’ll pause for questions. It’s It’s pretty straightforward what we’re doing. We’re kind of looking at last year’s budget and then saying, “Okay,

19:12 how much of that was truthfully?” I and I think you guys report numbers to DESI with those benefits costed in there as well. If that makes sense. So, I guess I’ll pause for questions on this analysis.

19:30 And Jen, can I have the floor? Jen?

19:36 Uh nope, I I don’t have to go first. Someone can go ahead of me. I think this makes a lot of sense. This is how I as a finance person would think about correctly allocating costs to kind of the the body that in the end uses it. For me, the open points are are those percentages and are trying these inputs accurate? I would want us to do the diligence to make sure that we agree with it. » Right. Um and for me, it’s about like, okay, is this a framework we’re going to use moving forward? Because when I look at those, I’m like, okay, this means we’re going to have to what were the actual allocations? And what was the delta between what we budgeted and what the actual was? And now we’re going to set new percentages and we need to make sure that we’re transferring and it just feels like it could get a little bit overly Yeah.

20:21 » complex to operationalize, but I think like largely the framework assuming that the percentage inputs you’re using makes sense, it’s very easy to follow, makes sense. Yeah, and and you make a great point because I’ve thought about this as well. If if this is a framework that’s going to be used, whether it’s in a sheet like this or or between Mike and Alicia moving forward, or if it’s legitimately just putting these six line items into your budget and your bottom line is not, you know, 49.1 last year at 61.4, and then obviously both sides have to work together cuz this is a town wide analysis and there’s folks on each side doing it. Um but I mean, that’s just kind of presentation at the moment. So, um but but what I would say is I thought about this is, you know, in years where I think we had

21:07 that uh that PEC presentation from the Massachusetts health insurance the the pack last week GIC sorry the pack GIC I I will lose the acronyms and if we looked at the last 5 years the active life insurance line or sorry health insurance line was going up like two and then the last 3 years it jumped up six six 14 right so this is this is really the benefits costs are really driving a big piece of this deficit along with less available revenues as well um and and what I would say and if that got back to a point you know if we’re going to use the framework that you mentioned moving forward if it gets back to a two to three the schools would be still getting if

21:53 you if you adopt this right 63% or whatever the most recent years allocation was of the available revenues and then those line items if they’re only going up by two then then that could be a net benefit right in those years and and that’s what’s fair right um and and I looked back we looked at a 10-year keger on both the schools growth and the town side without these benefit costs both have grown at about 4% over the last 10 years so again we talked about a structural challenge as I mentioned deficit is another word we know property tax revenue only grows at two and a half to three and both sides have been growing at four right so that’s where a lot of the available free cash has gone and then I think it’s sort of a perfect storm this year with last year the 14%

22:39 and then another 10 plus percent on the health insurance again so we’ve kind of been moving the needle of available revenue and the expenses going up and we’ve kind of hit our our bump in the road um I will say I I’m not surprised we are here um if you read any of our fincom reports we’ve been saying this is coming um and it’s here so um at the end of the day I think it’s it’s a fair I will say um while I didn’t know if I wanted to overcomplicate it, but I did look at the 50/50 and I simply said, “If schools had 1.2 million more last year than town, and if we went back to 50/50, you’re giving 600 back, right?” And then we have 600 less, you’re giving 300, you go coming down 300. So, the other option that I thought about was, “Well, if you want to stick with the 50/50 and just

23:27 not actually dig into this, you would have to come down 900, right?” So, it it it’s directionally, you know, 600,000 is a lot of money, but, you know, on a 50 million dollar budget, it’s not like a massive percentage of it. If that makes sense. So, um, I I guess what else did I miss? » Can I Can I add my two? I think one thing that’s also different this year is our revenue is actually down year over year. You know, driven by the things that Alec had mentioned, but in a normal year, we would see some revenue growth, and that would be split according to this framework of 63% to the schools and 37% to the town. So, we just don’t see that in in this year. So, it is really a a perfect storm. Um, I agree with, you know, a lot of what

24:12 Melissa said. The framework makes sense to me. I can understand how you got there, and I appreciate that it’s a number, you know, assuming the inputs are accurate, that’s based on actual school-related expenses as opposed to, you know, pulling a number out of a hat to make budgets balance.

24:34 A A thing that I’m struggling with is it’s a different framework than what we’ve used in the past, and now you’re talking about, “Okay, if we use this framework going forward, it has these benefits for the schools.” And, you know, 900, 600, a lot or a little in the budget, but we’re looking at actual educators in our classrooms with our students. So, how do we take the leap of saying, “Okay, you know, we will move to this new framework and know that next year, when a different problem comes forward, there isn’t a different framework proposed as the solution to that problem? I think that’s sort of what I’m struggling with is I can get behind this, but how do I

25:19 have the confidence that I don’t have to get behind something else a year from now? I I think what I would like to see, too, and again, this is, you know, based on conferences I’ve been sending Washington and other towns are doing. What I would like to see is at the beginning of every budget season, having and then we can decide how this plays out, but having a group with representation from the school board, being on the school committee, to discuss this in advance, right? To and to come at it with this framework. There will be, you know, this is this is a budget season unlike any I’ve ever seen, right? But there will be new challenges that we face, and so I think meeting at the the at the beginning of the budget process to set expectations, to discuss the needs, and to work together on how

26:05 they will be addressed, I think will is my recommendation for a path forward. And again, it is what I’ve seen in, you know, best practice across Massachusetts. Can I just interrupt you for a second? Um I would agree with that, and I just want to I just think if we’re going to move in this direction, cuz when the committee’s decide, I’m just I’m just scared of whatever it is that we want we need to do. I would think that we need to agree upon when the start budget season is. That’s right. Yeah, October. It doesn’t seem like it’s Yeah, October. I just want to make sure we’re aligned that way, cuz if we if we had these discussions or [clears throat] sell them out, if we had this level discussion back in October, November to this degree, we’d be having much, you know, this this would be much different conversation. Do you want to stop? I I either.

26:50 I’d like to just follow up on that, too, Kevin. I think if I, what I’m hearing in years, how do you know that the school department can do the same thing, I’m sorry. Right? And it’s also it’s positions versus people. I do seeds versus people. And if next year you’re going to have two these potentially two new school board members. So, I mean, I think I would be happy to bring to my board something that would that to authorize it. What whatever that looks like. I think that a firm policy and we’ve talked about this of exact of exact percentages and all that, I think can can hurt the whole process because there are going to be some years. So, maybe it’s a guideline that we use some guidelines or whatever word we want to use. And you know, I can’t speak for my board, but I would be happy to bring it back to them. And and propose that that we do a vote

27:37 on that moving forward. If that would make you guys feel comfortable, I think if I was in your position based on what Melissa said and what you said, um that that’s something I would feel that that that’s something I would feel very comfortable proposing. I like the idea of, you know, formalizing the guideline in some way. Um I think I would also like it to include, you know, the framework that Molly talked about. You know, it’s that we’re coming to some sort of agreement as to this is how the budget process is going to work in the future so that we don’t find ourselves in this position. Believe it. Yes, I mean, it’s fallible for years. So, actually along those lines, excuse me. Yeah, I’m looking to add, you know, we don’t people’s plate already, but would a at least a two-year budgeting

28:23 cycle help too because I you know, I know we’re talking about spending issues this year, but I think most people on the school committee are expecting a similar issue next year. And I’m not, you know, does it make sense to kind of look at that together? I love everything about that. I mean, I mean, even longer. I would love to be able to look three years and be able to prioritize in demands. You said that so that nothing comes as a surprise. And again, and that is a lot of what from you and what I’m hearing, that is what is discussed in these upfront budget meetings. Not just the current, it is also looking looking forward. So, I do I love that idea.

29:00 Um I think also one thing just to add on what I like about this framework is it feels like it actually is reflective of how the town and the schools operate. And it just is more logical to me than having a 50/50 split where you have all these shared expenses. So, so I just wanted to I think you kind of said that. » Yeah, and then one other point, I know Mike has a question too. Um I think we were getting to this $1.5 million number or or folks other than me were getting to it in a much more back of a napkin way and this was the only reason why I started kind of breaking it down this way was to try to actually support it, right? Rather than just say, “Hey, our health insurance and our pension are going up by this.” And I’ve heard this 60% number and 60% of those

29:46 increases are 1.5. I said, “That doesn’t really feel like a sound analysis.” So, um we happen to land in a similar spot. Sometimes you get lucky, right? Um so so I just wanted to point that out as well. So, there was a little bit late in the game though.

30:06 Yeah, but I sorry. So, I I want to thank Dan and Molly and Alec for this for last week we met. You showed me the spreadsheet. First I saw of it Friday afternoon. I get it. Um I have a couple of them just so I can have a flow. So, anyway, yeah. I think in the future it’ll be critical to include where we’re 63% of this number that we’re earlier on in discussion about how we formulate this stuff. Yeah. Cuz I couldn’t explain it to our committee until I saw it and I and I still didn’t know that I can explain it as well as you guys can cuz you guys built it. If you just look at Thatcher’s, you had up there only Thatcher’s FY27 benefits cost analysis. And and I think we had this conversation

30:53 on Friday. It’s confirming the numbers. It’s the formula works potentially within that spreadsheet, but bad data in is bad data. Exactly. Um It’s your mic, Hugh. Didn’t share anything. I didn’t share that at least. Oh oh oh, sorry. I didn’t I’m sharing my screen. Maybe it just It’s right in front of me. » [laughter] » [laughter] » You should see me. So. Let me see this one. On line 17 17 on my screen. It might be a different on your screen. Um we have the GIC active. Yeah. I believe they’re using numbers that came over from the town, 8.71 million. I took our exact roster of people who have benefits, what plan they’re all on. I put in the new rates as of Friday when

31:39 they were released. And I guess this was done before Right. And before the GIC release rates. But I came up with our number of people on GIC to be 8.370. Yeah, I did Which is a small cushion on that line that has has dropped. So. There’s also a cushion down below of $350,000. So now we have two cushions built into into benefits. And it’s affecting our number. And if we’re 63 37, why isn’t the cushion also $350,000 is split 50/50? Yeah, I mean, I would say my only response is that, you know, Alicia needs to work with you to kind of get I get that, but we’re like we’re at the 11th hour. hour.

32:24 hour. I mean, I don’t know that we have time for Alicia and I to sit down and meet. Okay. I As we said starting this I started this. Bad data in is bad data out. And if I don’t agree with the data, I can’t advise the committee that I think that this is a great idea. I think it is a great idea if the data was substantial, you know, substantial, sorry. There is a cushion in that number that that needs to be there because of the variability, but it is at this point we know based on looking at year-to-date numbers. Wait, wait. No, no, but what I I don’t think I’ve put that in my I I’ve got to go in mine, though. 20 that says GIC for cushions. GIC cushion

33:10 for changes 350,000 for the town and the school, and it’s not up in Wethersfield, but I have it on the same side I have. » Yeah, I guess I didn’t pull that line in. I didn’t I guess what happened. You guys can share your screen because this is a poll. You want to share your screen? But I I agree there’s a cushion, but it looks like there seem to be two cushions. And two cushions is $350,000. For us, that’s likely four to five positions out of our budget that we’re going to have to cut. Well, So, do we keep our cushion or do we keep our staff? Right. We » Can I Can I just touch on and I think Dan um I guess I’m not I don’t have an answer to that. I didn’t Can he talk your job, too? I mean, right, you’re FinCom, you’re for all intensive purposes, volunteering your time.

33:56 No, but I think it’s an excellent point. Like there should be a cushion in there, but it should be reasonable and to the extent that it is overstated. You know, we’ve been trying to bring down that cushion for years now, right? And so, you know, based on looking at year-to-date numbers, I agree with you, there is a cushion and I think we’ve said like these numbers need to be adjusted, it will be returned to the town » Yes. following that ratio. With the same and and be specific to active health insurance, right? So, your share of that. » So, so this spreadsheet if Sorry, I thought you were sharing. I thought you were going to share your screen for a second. Um if this $13.1 number came down between now and next week, we would rerun this analysis and if it said 1.3 million, then you

34:42 get 200,000 back. And and Dan has I’ve sat with him and I’ve sat with uh Thatcher and Alicia and they agree with all of them. I’m very adamant that if they’re making changes to anything that it gets reflected in here, like I said before. Okay, and that’s that’s clearly important, right? And you know, I think I think this discussion’s been great. I think this way in in justifying it, so I I echo Mike. I think I’m thankful for this analysis. But I also share Mike’s concern, too, where, you know, oh, it’s a couple hundred [snorts] thousand on the 663. That’s That’s people that’s bodies. That’s That’s five people that’s So, yeah, so I have to notify people they don’t have a job and then, oh, by the way, well, the number it looks different now, so never mind. Uh you know, I I’ve got to have like that I cannot I won’t approve it. And we’re experiencing the same thing on the budget. I’m saying

35:29 that we agree with that and we need to tighten this up. Yes. Yeah, and and just on on the I just think it’s a good segue um in terms of bodies you mentioned. Um so, this analysis as I’m showing after the reality We can actually hear your thoughts for a second. Just kidding. Sorry. is at 4.5 million, right? For the town side. That’s before any adjustments to anything, any cuts. It was at six before cuz we just shifted 1.5 over before we got there. So, that’s net of the 1.5. Um I’ve been sitting and following along what you and Alicia and Thatcher have been proposing and you

36:15 guys have been going back. There’s about a million dollars of cuts, adjustments, and cuts on the town side that that have happened between state of the town and now that are really just adjustments to the health insurance is the largest piece, adjustments to that reimbursements to retirees line, a couple changes through department meetings when they were finalizing. So, before the ask of the schools to come 1.5 million below last year, the town was short $5 million on their side, right? And we’re looking at what are we looking at? A a 39 a $40 million budget, ish, right? Um I’m sorry, $35.5 million budget if you’re splitting it the the 3760.

37:00 So, 5 million over that is a lot larger of a percentage on the town side. And and I’ll take the opportunity to speak here because I’ll I’ll speak again Monday at my meeting, but I’ve been waiting for your meetings to have go before I’ve had a chance to talk. I’ve I’ve heard people asking about whether these cuts are real that Thatcher’s talking about at at his most recent meeting. Um what I can say is that I’ve looked at the cuts before in all three scenarios, before the 1.5 million ask of the schools below level last year, and before the trash fee that I think you guys were were talking about last night. That $5 million gap would have resulted in between 50 and 60 employees in Townsend. So, ju- just to put it into perspective, right? If if the schools were level funded to

37:48 last year, how many positions would you have cut in that scenario? That’s our proposed budget, Alex. 3.75 each. So, so if that’s the way it stayed, the town would have 55 positions on the line. To a lot lesser number of employees total to the schools. » I think the analysis that is slightly different than that one, too. So, yeah, I mean, that’s it’s not » Alex. Alex, can I ask a question? Yeah. So, out of the four, these numbers are bouncing around, four and a half, 5 million, whatever it is, under the net deficit. So, from what I No. Can you tell me whether that number includes the trash fee? Not yet.

38:33 Not yet. Not yet. Does not » that So, that means that you are taking This is where I also am having some struggle understanding. Because if the trash fee is being taken out of the town side of government, but it’s being reallocated under a fee being charged to the to the um homeowners. Um that’s not a cut. That’s not a deficit. I mean, it’s 3 and 1/2 Well, hang on. 3 or whatever it is, 2.5 I don’t know what the number is, 2.5 2.8 million dollars is not a deficit. That’s being covered by another revenue source. » so I can I can kind of walk through this if you’d like. And And by the way, the the trash fee has not been discussed by

39:19 the FinCom at all. That That is a select board decision that we will react to on Monday. So, Cuz what I like to Hang on one second, cuz what I’d like to say, too, is that when you look and you’re looking at a 3. 2 million dollar cut on the town side and then inclusive of the 1.5. But, remember, we did the same thing, which we’re not getting credit for. In other words, we moved uh almost a million dollars out of our of our level funded budget and moved it into revolving funds. But, we didn’t take That’s not being counted as a cut cuz it’s being moved somewhere else. » yeah. So, to react to your 5 million question, what I was saying was if if the town had not asked the schools to come down below level funds last year, right, it would have been 1.5 million more than the number that I have highlighted in this analysis. Cuz this analysis

40:05 analysis analysis We’re But, you’re But, you’re you you’re they’re taking out the trash contract. Is that » to get there in a second. I’m going to get there in a second. So, what I’m saying is that if you add that 1.5 back to the 4.5, it was a $6 million deficit based on what was in Munis as of the state of the town. They’ve adjusted budgets since then including reducing the health insurance estimate by about a million dollars, right? That left it at 5 million, right? If you add 1.5 million to 4.5 million, that’s six, and then they’ve made budget adjustments since then of five. This is before any ask of the schools below level last year before any trash fee. That number, if they were to go through

40:52 with that and stop there, no trash fee, no ask of the schools below level, I can assure you that I’ve seen a list that has 55 employees cut on the town side. From there, the way that Thatcher presented I’m I’m also a citizen watching Thatcher present her. Right? He said, “1.5 million will be asked of the schools.” That in the cuts analysis, if we’re looking at three columns, restored about 15 to 20 positions. So, before any trash fee, after asking the schools based on a pretty level analysis that we we think is as long as the inputs in, like we said, is pretty economically sound, we’re still at a $3.5 million deficit on

41:37 town side. I have seen a list of the $3.5 million cuts before we talk about trash fee, which isn’t necessarily a conversation for the school committee meeting, but that’s 40 positions on the town side before they consider the trash fee, okay? And I know it’s a But my question again, you’re I’m not getting an answer to my question. If the My understanding is they took they’re are taking the trash out of the budget, so it’s going to be paid for They have I haven’t got there yet. I just said they have a $3.5 million deficit before the trash fee idea was even thought of. And that represents 40 positions. Does that make sense? Yeah. » If they didn’t use the trash fee to cover to cover the 3.5 million dollar deficit

42:24 they would have had to cut 40 positions. Okay. » And then that created a decision point for the select board which I’m watching as a as a citizen that they had to make a decision do they want to risk cutting 40 positions which is 22% of town side government covered by the general fund. That that is a very large amount and that would include um I mean the way this works the original 55 to 60 as reported was and I confirm this myself a full shutdown of the library, full shutdown of COA, full shutdown of the wreck and park, cemetery, chief chief procurement officer, two police officers, three members of community planning and development, assessor

43:09 senior clerk, two custodians, six to eight public works and facilities. That was the starting. After asking the schools for this analysis to come down, like I said they restored about 15 of those, right? Through the process, right? That restored the town planner and the conservation agent and about 15 public works and facilities. Everything else I said before that is still out. I haven’t deliberated on the trash fee yet. It sounds like you all did last night. Um that I believe restored about half of those 40 positions. So still there’s 20 positions which is about 10% of the town side budget that are being cut even if they do implement the trash fee. Um that’s the best I can explain it right now, Jim. If that makes sense. The these are not scare tactics.

43:54 scare tactics. scare tactics. » Actually, it doesn’t. I’m sorry. I don’t understand. Well, tune in on Monday night and I’ll show you a list of the three scenarios. It’s not the scenarios. It’s I’m just I mean I’m just looking at what I consider the bottom line of a net deficit and on the town side there’s a there is going to it sounds like there is going to be an option that that’s coming out of their budget. At least that’s what I understand what I’m hearing. And Dan, chime in if I’m wrong. Maybe not. Maybe you’re going to keep the tra- the trash contract in the budget. The trash contract stays in the budget. Okay, and there’s and there’s a potential potential offset to that which could be forward with last night as said and stuck that there

44:41 to move forward and with the assumption that the trash the trash pick up and uh disposal comes out of the budget. That is correct. So you are at where Alex said at the bottom line where we are still looking at cutting turning up on what you use as a a the the area denominator view uh between 10 and 11% of total employees. What’s that number, Alec? Dan. » 20 positions, 10 to 11%. » the net deficit number?

45:17 It’s it’s about 1.5 million. So at so it would be 1.5 million versus the schools at 3.2 million. No, that they also made cuts that will I will highlight to about 1 million that will yeah, exactly. » asking, what would be what will be the projected net deficit with under the assumption » It’s two and a half to three million. The 1.5 is is what they would not consider asking back for at this point. I I still » they’re going to be cuts including positions I’m not asking about cuts. I’m just trying to ask for what the net deficit will be on the town side after on the assumption that that trash fee is offset that the trash contract tract expense is offset by another revenue source.

46:02 source. source. For this spreadsheet, if you were to reduce the 4.5 million by 2 million, it would be about 2.5 million dollars. Okay. Versus a school at 3.2. Okay. Thank you. That’s what That’s what I was saying. » I thought you were asking about the cuts, which I I think we’ll get into a little bit more later. » No, I’m not asking about the cuts because I think at this point we should be looking at the numbers and then, you know, then that’s when you obviously have to back this stuff in. But the the trash fee is is from my perspective, which again, it wasn’t it’s not FinCom’s idea. We’re reacting to it. The deficit was 4.5. The trash fee is a solution to that that Yeah. » our executive body discussed last night and and decided to address. So, all of the 4.5 million dollar

46:47 deficit, Yeah, but it offsets the deficit. I mean, that’s important. Just like we found the ability to do that through revolving funds, which again, offsets a deficit and then saves jobs. So, If you’re going to talk apples to apples, Jen, shouldn’t you be looking at our our deficit after the trash fee and you should be looking at what your cuts were using the revolving funds? Yes, that’s exactly right. Yeah, so I think that if you’re going to analyze that, there’s a fair amount coming out of revolving funds. You could look at what we’re doing with the trash fees and Yeah, but but our that’s 3.2 And that is actually there’s about Well, 325,000 that was from of the 1.7 that was moved » Yeah. to revolving funds. Right. » Right. So, there’s there’s some that came out from the special I’m sorry,

47:33 from um the circuit breaker. And then there was some, but you know, before the 1.7 from the special aid or special education. And then the kindergarten tuition. Sorry, it’s just so many revolving funds. And so, included in the 1.7 is about 325,000. So, you would say » Well, no, you would be on top of that, Mom. » Yes. Yeah. » No. Um in » Yes. in the 1.7, there’s 325,000 that was shifted to revolving fund. No, that would be in like 2.1 million we shifted 300 we had a net 1.4 yeah. Yeah. Yes. No, but it’s actually apologize it’s 348,194.

48:17 It is in that it’s included in the 1.7 million that is listed as a cut and I’m happy to walk you through each line. » so we don’t have to I mean we don’t have to do that here. I I’m going to disagree. That’s not my recollection from our subcommittee meetings. But that being said, I think going back like so I think that we had talked about in the meetings. Okay, so I think at more of like the 50,000 foot level going back to Melissa’s comment at the beginning um that so in 2023 we were discussing this in the fall of 2023 when we started a budget um process to do just this. Now it’s 2 and 1/2 years later and we’re now getting the numbers we asked for 2 and 1/2 years ago to begin this process. So that’s great.

49:04 That’s good. Um but we do need to see you know what we’re seeing here are what was budgeted. We do need to see what was actually spent, what was encumbered, right? And versus what was budgeted for like that that we that we do need to see as well which I don’t believe are in in these numbers. And I also want to point out um that maybe no one at this table or at that table remembers, but you know in 2000 I think it was 2000 um 20 there there was and is an MOU between the select board and the school committee to do just what you were describing earlier which is to have annual meetings around issues particularly around the budget that came out of the um

49:50 the difficulties we had in 20 2019 and and there have been requests in the past to do that with the select board and it hasn’t taken place. So, I don’t think we necessarily need to reinvent the wheel. We probably need to look at the MOUs that already exist. Maybe it needs to be adjusted. But I think it’s important, you know, that we understand that this is been attempted before and I hope that, you know, maybe we can actually be successful at it. But I do think where we it still doesn’t help with where we sit right now. I mean, we I guess the question to the committee is are we going forward with this version of a budget that we have in front of us with the shifting of expenses and corresponding revenue and

50:35 um and budgeted revenue this year for this FY27 budget cuz there’s there’s a lot of work to be done in a short period of time. Or do we move forward with how we have done it and what we were asked to do and what we did complete last month? Um and have this be, so you know, more of a working project for FY28. » Like I mentioned before, if if you went with the 50/50 split from the independent watchdog’s perspective, the schools would be at 90 900,000 less than last year. Oh, and okay, and we can talk about I just don’t know I’m trying to understand if we’re trying to move forward » know that level level to last year was ever on the table from from the independent party’s perspective here. Well, it was up until about, you know,

51:20 four or five weeks ago and all throughout the season that was what we were being directed to do. Yeah, I sat at a table with you, Alec, and Molly. You were like, this is what we’re doing, level funded. That was the directive. I understand things have shifted. I’m not I’m not saying things haven’t shifted. » to that. Let me respond to that. I sat in the meeting and I said I’ve been on this committee for 10 years and you can read my FinCom reports to town meeting that we have a structural deficit and that what’s coming is here. It was October and we had a revenue forecast that suggested we had $700,000 less of available revenue. And I said, “We have not completed the three-year expense forecast. That’ll be presented in December.” As of now, I said, “I

52:05 would expect the most you’re going to get is level to last year and maybe less than that.” We were not When I said that to you, I’m a finance committee member trying to nudge you in the right direction. That wasn’t a directive from me. I don’t I don’t make policy as to how to allocate revenue between town and schools. And I believe your report you’re reading, so you guys can all look back at what I said. So, if that was what you heard, it it wasn’t a directive from the town when we had that meeting that you just referenced. I just wanted to make that clear. So, again, I’m just asking, where are we moving for Where are we going with from this point? It feels like everybody wants to move, but I have a select board member to my right here that wants to,

52:51 whether it’s a firm policy allocation or just a direction to collaborate in the fall annually and figure out these shared costs and how to allocate them and and how to look at the available revenues for each side, whether it’s a shift of actual school department budget as presented or just a an analysis done before that bottom line that gets presented. That’s a presentational issue for me, but it sounds like both sides need to work together and and figure out how to address this and like I said, the only reason why I got into the town side cuts is cuz I’ve been hearing a lot in the public about that these are scare tactics. And And what I can assure you is they’re not. And if the schools were at level and the no trash fee, which was a new

53:37 concept that I’ve heard in the last few weeks here as being considered, the town was cutting 50 to 60 employees. And that would have been if the schools were level last year. I just wanted to make that point so that people understand the magnitude of that. I I understand and the schools have been absolutely fabulous to work with. I’ve been doing this for 10 years. The collaboration between the select board, school committee, school leadership, FinCom, which I feel like we’ve always sort of tried to play nice, but um it’s been better than it’s ever been since since these two right here have been here. Um so I appreciate that, but we’ve hit our fiscal cliff and we’re short 6 to 8 million dollars, whatever number you want to use, and that’s a reason to re-look at things, right? So that’s part of the reason we’re looking at it. And

54:23 and that’s really all I got. If if I just go back to the 50,000 foot perspective, um you know, we put together just one budget Yep. as of this time. Yep. Um but it I don’t think we can consider it a balanced budget at anyone [clears throat] given the numbers that you just you know, we all just discussed. Right? So Jen, this is all the way to your question as to where the committee is. Um you know, Well, the trouble is a little bit of those words um Al, because we are required as a town meeting to present to pass a balanced budget. So what that means is we have to pass a budget, correct me if I’m wrong, Al, that is reflective of the projected revenues. So I think in terms of a level funded

55:08 budget, it sounds like, you know, that’s what it sounds like. We have to do it. required for them to recommend push to town meeting. So there there are columns in in the way we present it to town meeting that say budget requested first budget recommended. And and it’s always been equal since I’ve been on the committee, but there is an opportunity for a department to say, “Hey, we want more.” And the FinCom has to decide whether they recommend that or not. So there can be a discrepancy to town meeting as to what a department requests first what we recommend. Yep. And correct me if I’m wrong, but we can’t The balanced budget we present might not be what we request. But can the town pass an unbalanced budget? Like in the Can the town » No, it can’t, but you know, there would have to be a vote on that at town meeting or a hold or whatnot, right? I

55:54 think the vote would be on what the FinCom has recommended, but they would There would be the opportunity to hold. I’m also not the best at like the town meeting, how it works. I think we can figure that out. If there’s questions for the next few months. » So, I think that the issue the I guess the question I guess I guess to the school committee is why on FinCom like are we going forward with um this sort of shift of both revenue and expense and trying to quickly do what could be up to a year’s worth of work in a short period of time or do we want to um have that be a longer-term project and you know, come to some sort of an agreement on what we we need to look at to reduce I mean, it’s very very

56:40 hard to say, but to reduce and cut the budget from last year from I’m sorry, this year to next year um in a number that will um help the town achieve you know, help the town overall achieve the goal of a balanced budget. I think I think um

57:01 there So, the committee needs to ensure that the schools have the resources that they need to be able to meet that goal. FinCom will over margin. But I think we requesting a budget that exceeds the town’s allocation by a million and a half dollars without a clear path towards funding that million and a half is a symbolic gesture, not a long-term governing strategy. It’s going to result in a successful hopefully multi-year override that fixes the structural deficit and all of them once and for all. And so, I don’t want to ask you guys to cut another million and a half from your budget, but I think it

57:46 we have to present a balanced budget in lockstep with the town for a few reasons. One, to retain control. Voting Voting a balanced budget ourselves, I don’t want the floor of town meeting to turn into something where it spirals out of control and we we’re kind of on our back foot and and we’re like the mercy of what’s happening in the meantime current practice. And we owe it to staff students to make the decisions ourselves and have a plan for how we would want this to go in this very dire situation that we need to be clear, I do not want and I do not support. So, I will be supporting it. I I think for any sort of override campaign to pass, the school committee and the select board need to be operating together.

58:33 This is one town. We live and we die together. This is not the schools, this is not the town. We all live here together and we all want this to be the best community with the best schools that it possibly can be. And I think again, voting a budget that does not fit into what the town is doing is just uh will not achieve that outcome. Um so, I I don’t support the additional cuts, but I think we need to present a budget that way. And then, I will do everything in my power to support an override to ensure that those are all restored. And I I hope then some of the scenarios you guys talked about last night, I would Yes. So, I guess that’s that’s my spiel. I’d

59:19 actually want to pick up this thread from Melissa that I agree with a lot of what we just said. And you know, I’ve been struggling since our meeting last week and I’ve lost a lot of sleep over the idea of we have an obligation to advocate for the schools and cutting is not moving the schools in the direction that we need to go.

59:48 we cannot stand apart from the town. We are intertwined. I think that the spreadsheet you presented for me sort of solidified that we have been trying to run two separate budgets when we should it is one budget with, you know, all our funding sources for the most part only both to some degree. We share benefit expenses. It just we need to find a way to work together instead of sort of negotiating with one another for a pot of money that belongs to the entire community. And what I heard last night at the select board’s meeting was perhaps the

1:00:34 beginning of moving in a direction of putting forward a plan that if there was a commitment that the schools, if the committee deliberates and decides it wants to go in that direction, could participate in that, actually gives the opportunity I want, which is to advocate for what we need in our schools as opposed to having a fight for the next two months for a level funded budget that I don’t think any of us sit here thinking you know, sets our schools up for the success that we want to see. So, while I do not want to ask the superintendent and Mike to make additional cuts, I struggle to see a

1:01:20 path forward when we don’t do that. But also, I think that the points Mike made tonight were well taken, and I think that there is work that needs to be done to make sure that the number that we do move forward with is accurate. We owe that to the people whose jobs we are talking about to make sure that the dollar amount is correct, and it’s not an estimate on an estimate, you know, on a percentage that we’re not totally sure about. So, you know, the clock is ticking, but I don’t see how we move forward without doing that work as part of the process. Mike has his hand up, by the way. I don’t know. When is my turn?

1:02:05 All right. So, I I got two comments. The first one is to the committee, and I may regret this in the future, but have we considered bringing the benefits into our budget? Because at that point, we’re pushing this hours, and we can reduce that cushion, and if we need to cut somewhere else, we will, but it’s on our side. And the other part of that is the comment that was made about revolving funds, and charging benefits to revolving funds. If the benefits are sitting on the town side, but on paper, they’re coming over to us as a as part of a percentage formula. If I charge benefits off to a revolving fund, as I’m now told we need to do by the by law,

1:02:51 how does that benefit money that’s been reduced on the town side get back into the our general fund budget? Cuz I’m not sure that it’s going to. So, if the benefits sit on our side, I can ensure that if I charge benefits off to the revolving fund, that relieves some money in the general fund for us, not for the town. So, if we have to cut 1.5, and I’m not convinced that 1.5 is still the number. I believe that we still have a lot of work to do. Um how do we get to ensure that we’re not working on ratios is you just said, ratios of numbers versus actual venom. Cuz I think we do a pretty good job of having data and analyzing data and we’re one department. I know the town has seven or eight departments and I get

1:03:38 it’s a much different animal on that side. I would just feel more comfortable that if we’re going to have to make these cuts that impact lives, impact impact our our students we got lives, our students education, we should have control over what we’re

1:03:54 The other point is to the everybody. One of the big numbers on here is the pension. This is something that is not any of our fault. This is goes back 30 or 40 years from people who retired and they not to any fault of theirs, but they weren’t contributing 11% to the pension like we are now. They were contributing a lot less. 5 7 6%. We are now making up that debt. So, 2.8 million our split number is from years and years ago of of debt. It’s it’s and and you guys can correct me if I’m wrong, but that’s my understanding. It’s a little bit more complicated than that, too, right? Because the asset base that is funding that pension is also not keeping up every year with health care expenses. So, we’re

1:04:40 projecting a liability long into the future. You have an asset base that is helping to fund it. You have inputs coming from people contributing. You have money coming out. It is it’s very complicated. » But it’s from it’s from it’s not anything that’s resolved in the last 5 years. Right. But it is also there is a component from recurrent employees that are also contributing. But but to your point, it is it is a legacy liability for sure. It is a legacy liability from you know, it it’s but it it’s it is a it’s a monster. Pensions are a monster, so to speak. And but but it but in any event, it is still a liability that’s been funded or that’s been created by school and town employees, you know, over the years. And so

1:05:26 » If I could just make one comment, Mike, it would I mean again, I I don’t know the uh how realistic it is to think this will be done, you know, before town meeting, but to take a look at those pension numbers cuz correct me if I’m wrong, the majority of the employees on the school side are are teachers and administrators that are in the state pension that this town does not contribute to. And it’s the non um you know, it’s our others I think it’s the you know, like the food service, custodians, I mean it’s bus drivers. They’re on the town pension side, but it would seem to me that the town would have a greater percentage of employees. It does. in the town pension. Yeah, I mean like I said, these aren’t my numbers. I didn’t deep analyze this. I didn’t I asked Alicia and her team to

1:06:12 do it, so I think they need to justify it all to Mike, I guess, but I will say that that seems to be correct in what I’m looking at because it says the active life insurance percentage schools is 66, but then the pension is pension is only 39. So Yeah. » it seems to be a shift between those two lines. And the way the way you can tell is anybody who’s licensed and required to have a license by DESI goes into MTRS. And anybody who does not have a license, who’s not required to have a license by DESI, goes into the town And I can tell you that out of our 520 or so FTE total, um we know that at least 300 five, I think, are unit A because that’s the number we used in the negotiations last year, plus all the administrators, all the principals, assistant

1:06:58 principals, uh special education staff, um who aren’t in unit A, um except John, Julie, and Lisa Marie. So we’re probably 325 to 330 of our 500 and something in MTRs. So, more than 50% are outside the town. » MTRs. Yeah. Yeah. Um the other thing that um I think that again, on the 50,000-foot level, and I’m not going to be here, but if the decision is made between the two committees and there’s an agreement that the the benefits are going to come over um OPEB and the health insurance benefits are over uh coming over to the school side, I would suggest that the school committee would a seat at that bargaining table. Um with those units that bargain for those benefits, because if we’re going to be responsible for

1:07:45 paying them in our budget, we ought to be responsible you know, have a seat at the table. And I believe the negotiations are going on now. I think. I’m not 100% sure. But that would be I would think that would be very important.

1:08:07 Yeah, that finance committee here. » [laughter] » Does anyone on the committee have a comment about that? Is that something that you think we think is impo- I think it’s important. That makes sense if it’s if it’s something that’s going to affect our budget. And it’s negotiated. And now is that something we think is realistic as we’re talking 27 or is this given that we have to take our you know, have our union. How it is. It’s probably not a It sounds like it makes sense for us to do. I’m not sure if it makes sense to do right now is my question. Or should we do it now? Cuz I’m I’m hearing Please let me know if I’m misinterpreting things. At least I’ve heard several people say that

1:08:52 we probably need to put together, right, what’s more of a balanced budget that is an additional 1.5 million less than what we have right now. I don’t agree with that. I mean, it correct and Mike doesn’t seem to agree with that number either. So, I don’t think that we should be throwing a number out. I think we probably should try to button up what that number is and then come back and decide. Okay. I think it’s more complicated than that. Cuz you have to cut 1.5 million. The reality is 80% of our budget is salaries. So, in order to get to 1.5, you’re going to have to have some reduction in force. With pink slips, whatever you want to call them. For every one of those I issue, I do need to cut unemployment for those positions. However, I will likely have

1:09:38 some benefit savings because we are having them on the benefits anymore. So, there’s So, that 1.5 could creep up to 1.7, 1.8 after unemployment, but might come back down to 1.6 once you once you have a benefit savings. Depends on the area. An individual plan, a family plan. And so, we get some directive on which way to go. We can say Yeah, that that’s a good point because Alicia had sort of in the scenarios on the town side, those exact things unemployment. And I have mentioned to her we Well, do we understand what the schools are cutting before or after the 1.5 and how that may impact not not the unemployment, but the the insurance, which is sitting on the town side because that would go into this as well. Let me just finish my thought a little bit too in that again, just to reiterate what Melissa

1:10:25 said is I don’t support that, right? We definitely do not support that budget. But I think it’s important to show what that budget would look like. And then, I do think we have to look at a more fully funded budget that includes some of the issues that we think are coming next year and look to have that sourced appropriately. Probably through a loan. Yeah, I mean, I don’t agree with most of what everybody else is saying. No one wants to make these cuts. I don’t think we’re doing the schools any favors by not playing ball town. Yes. Um, you know, if we refuse to make cuts, then the cuts that have to be made on the town side to offset that are

1:11:10 probably going to fall on our laps in terms of public opinion. And that’s not going to help us in the future or less. Um, we do need to come up with a number so that we can tell Mike and John what to do. So, how do we get that number and when do you get it just so we know? We sort of set up this meeting I know it was quick turnaround, but we set up this meeting to get that number and we’re still not sure about what that is and we need to move quickly particularly I don’t want to pivot too quickly, but particularly if we’re going to start to also ask John and Mike to look at override scenarios like the select board already. Like cuz we don’t want to fall behind there and so, what

1:11:57 so, what so, what Mike, you need to restate exactly what you need to get a number that you can be confident in so that we can give you direction. I’m going to jump in for a second cuz I was trying to stay quiet over here, but I think um I honestly think um at least she needs to dig back in. Some stuff Mike just brought up about the pension, about the cuz you know, we’re talking percentages, right? 63 and 7 all that stuff. And just that quick math that Mike just did on the pension side of things, there’s there’s a lot of money on the table cuz that’s not a 50/50 as you know, so it’s two times that there. So, I think if you’re looking at that piece, you’re looking at at one point Alex said there’s a 900,000 that could be a 600,000 that we dealt with. Like those

1:12:42 are the things that matter, right? 600,000 is, you know, X amount of teachers. Like and I know the town side is going to cut it more. So, at the end of the day, I need from the committee a number that’s as close to possible as what the number’s going to be. 1.5 has been thrown out there and I think Alex Alec has done a nice job of kind of getting some substantiating that. However, and this is no offense to anybody, I just like to know if that number’s the right number because I don’t think that that is what it was. You know, where it needs to be. I think it needs to be a little bit more analysis. But, I can’t wait two, three, four more weeks for that. I have There’s a lot a lot of work to do. The 14.7 5 FTEs that we’ve already cut into a level funded budget with work classes and all that. And this isn’t like, oh, we can turn

1:13:28 around and cut that small of a position with, you know, weeks to happen. So, I would just ask that the committee come up with something that makes sense based upon either a range maybe or something. And then when we get the actual number, which I’m going to ask, [snorts] right? So, if we don’t have it, an actual number, then we can make another adjustment of some sort. But, I don’t want to create a scenario of having out how to come up with 1.5 million dollars if that 1.5 million ends up being 900 or 1.2. And that’s that’s real money, that’s real people. And I will just say this one last thing. Regardless of whatever that number is, and I said this from the very beginning of the general fund budget, we’re in the business of students.

1:14:14 This will 100% impact classrooms, which is going to 100% impact students. I get it. It’s it’s what we need to do. I think we need to play ball, we need to work together. But, that’s the only way this town can move forward. I’m not saying that I guess I don’t want to cut money, people, but but it will 100% impact students. And I’m an educator, I’m an educational leader in the district, and it’s my job to try and do what’s best for our kids. This is not best for our kids. We’re in a position that really was caused by none of us. Um, and we need to figure out a way through this. Um, this year’s bad. Next year’s going to be way worse. Way worse. So, we we need to plan now for the future, too. So, this can’t be a little band-aid and say, “Okay, we got

1:15:00 through it.” Next year’s going to be worse. So, override, override, cuts, cuts, whatever. This has to We have to like soon as we get town meeting done now, we got to start working on this year. I mean, it can’t be. So, I just I just needed to say those things. I will take the direction of the school committee, and Mike and I will work with that team to do what we need to do. However that whatever that number is, and however we need to get to, we’ll figure it out. We’re going to have to » say, John, let Thank you. And let me just make a comment to the other committee members. This is This is tough stuff, right? I mean, this is, you know, we’re elected or appointed to do a job, and that’s to advocate for the schools. Of course, we need to be partners. We are also, you know, residents of the town, and we care about the town, but we are We are the school committee. And our

1:15:46 job is to advocate for the budget that we need. Kate, you wrote a letter to the school committee last year, signed with two other parents, demanding that the school committee do a fully funded budget, not a level service budget, not a level funded budget, a fully funded budget. That was your demand last year. So, you can see that it’s it’s not easy. Right? There’s a lot of pressure, and there’s a lot of demand, and that’s understandable. Um, and that’s what we’re faced with, but our job is to advocate for the schools. And, you know, to Alex’s point earlier, the town meeting will ultimately vote on on a recommended budget from the from the finance committee, but the school committee is the is the other only body in town that can go to town meeting with a request for what it wants. We can do that. And I’m not suggest I’m

1:16:32 not suggesting that that’s what we do. But, we have the right to do it. And at some point, we have to decide, and that’s what John’s saying, and he’s has He’s absolutely right, and they they It is not them their job to give us the number. It’s our job to tell to give them the directive. What does this committee want to do? I’m asking each of you. It’s the four of you. And at some point, we didn’t have public comment tonight, Al. I don’t know how many people in the room cuz I can’t see, but we’ve got a number of folks online. I don’t know if there’s an interest in hearing from public comment. In the spirit of transparency and good governance. I would, but I don’t know if the rest of the committee would. Yeah, Wayne, you know, we had public comment last week or public comment this coming week. Uh the only reason we didn’t have it tonight was just to ensure we have

1:17:19 enough time with the select board member and the finance committee members here. That was the reason, Jen. » Well, we could open it up now if there’s an interest. I don’t know if there’s people who want » to Going back to your first question, Jen. So, I I clearly want to you know, in working with the town, put together what we have less than a match, right? And to me, I would look to Mike and Alicia to to work on if there’s there’s edits to the numbers that we’re presenting tonight. So, I think that’s one thing we need to do. And then the second thing would be I think Jen, you just mentioned this, what a fully funded budget would look like. What we would recommend that we need to really do the right job for our students.

1:18:04 Um but again, that’s going to be tied to an additional source of revenue. But I think that’s what » fully funded budget would have been a directive last November to our to the subcommittee and to the administration. We were never ever tasked with that. That is its own set of weeks and months of work. Going back John, correct me if I’m wrong. Like a fully funded budget means you go back to the drawing board and you start with your administrator. That is not something we have time for. I would think not. » No way. No way. So, there then there’s only one choice, Jen, right? What are the choices there besides I don’t understand I don’t I don’t I mean our job is to come is to present a budget at town meeting. Based on the you know, working with the town and the projected revenues. I don’t

1:18:52 I guess I don’t understand. We’re working with the town. Right? Collaborating around a budget that makes sense for both sides. Right. » we I think Alex showed what that looks like tonight. Yeah. So that’s So that’s » That’s not a fully funded budget. No, I understand. That’s But that’s what we’re being asked to, right? To That’s collaborating. So that Mike Mike needs guidance on is he going to try to find 1.5 or what number does he want? My response to that is we need Alicia available to do the work to validate the issues that Mike has to help us determine what that number is. Is she available to do the work? We’ll make her available. Okay. I mean I’m always I mean Mike might want

1:19:39 to do a range or one one to two. What if What if the analysis is wrong in the other direction and it comes out at 2 million? If you If we’re questioning the analysis and and there’s discrep Don’t say that we’re questioning the analysis. I think your spreadsheet is solid. I think the data to spreadsheet is not the analysis. I didn’t perform the percentages. I have nothing to do with it. The spreadsheet is different from that. I’m saying if we’re questioning what Alicia did what if you look at it and it goes the other way? Then we have to deal with that. Okay. We need the facts. I mean » Exactly. So if you’re looking for a range, you might want to widen that range is what I’m saying. 1 to 2 million maybe. 1.5 is in the middle. I mean the other option is Melissa if you if it wants to go back to the subcommittee level and we could work with Mike on this I don’t know. I

1:20:25 mean we don’t have a lot of time. » mean we need Alicia and we need Mike. So I spoke with Alicia yesterday afternoon. She is back tonight. Her and I are meeting tomorrow. Okay. So I would say like you guys sit in a room and don’t leave that room until if you have all your questions answered and you feel good about the numbers that she’s providing and you can stand behind them. Yeah, easier said than I I No, actually I agree Kurt. I mean and there are I really think there’s like six budget buckets and it’s the buckets that we don’t control. Yeah. So, if I can understand those six buckets and I think I understand the health insurance one cuz I have the roster. Mhm. I think I have I understand the retirement cuz I have the roster. And my numbers just don’t match the numbers that that are in the formula spreadsheet. And you’re right. Maybe one of the other formulas is off in the other direction

1:21:13 and maybe you’re right, maybe that 1.5 is now 1.8 and but I think we just need to know what the real number is. And once we know what the real number is, we will work through it. It’s a fully reasonable. We got to sit side by side, look at what she has, what we have and then I think we asked you for 1.5. Okay. So, I don’t have full authority here, but I can tell you based on conversations I’ve had, uh that’s what was presented and what we have directed our town administrator and Alicia to work on with in our scenario B last night. So, I think that if you want to set a ceiling on it, okay? I again, I’m I’m one of five people, but based on what we talked about last

1:21:58 night, those are the assumptions that we’re going through on the town side. So, you know, I would feel comfortable if we’re talking about a range that if I were in your position, that I would use that as a guide. But we have everything I mean don’t So, correct me if I’m wrong, Dan. What I heard last night too is that you’re looking to offset the increase in the cost of of the benefits. So, we’re asking just to we want to solidify that number. If you’re asking for 1.5 million cuz that’s what you need and whether it’s encompassing or it’s more than the those budgets then then ask that and that’s something that this committee can ask. » that’s not what I said. What I said is that when Mike and Alicia get together and reconcile, if what Al just suggested that that number goes up, we are not again, I can speak for

1:22:45 myself, only myself cuz I’m one person here. I’m not sitting with Mike and Alicia. But that the numbers that we directed them to go was 1.5. I’m not asking for more. And that’s not what Thatcher and Alicia are working on on their side. That’s all I can contribute from that. If I was in your position, based on what we talked about last night, which coincides with Al’s numbers, we are not making assumptions that these numbers are going up. So the question is when Mike and Alicia said, you know, does the number go down and if so, And it might come down if the insurance gets reanalyzed. She she on the fly last week changed it from 15 to 11. We’re doing liaison meetings, guys. Like we’re late in the game, too. Like I know there’s a lot of pressure and time here. You can

1:23:32 imagine how I feel. There’s zero balance budget. We have We have to vote on it in 2 weeks, the whole thing, not just one, 15 of them, right? So, I mean, this isn’t ideal timing, but it is what it is, right? So I’m wondering if you know, if you and Alicia are sitting down tomorrow, you know, does Al put school committee meeting on the calendar for I mean, Tuesday sort of as soon as he can post in the 48 hours, you know, so that we can come back and have that number Or you can just say or you can just say use the number you Well, we’re not we’re not doing anything with the Yeah, I think it’s sort of a question of Yeah. Where you, you know, you keep you say you want direction, but so is it direction that We can’t submit I’m hearing some numbers

1:24:17 1.5. I mean, actually what it is service than that. That’s that’s the feeling, yeah. That’s a flowing number, so if you need whether we agree » you I I think scheduling another school committee meeting off cycle might not be necessary. You could also just have this be the main agenda item for next week’s meeting. There’s a meeting next week. Right, but it’s just, you know, yeah, talking about the timing and it’s, you know, a week from now as opposed to Yeah, but we still, I mean presumably John, if you get this number and you’ll come back with the number and with the suggested situation to meet that and we could potentially vote a budget next Thursday night. Is that reasonable? So that it sounds like, you know, 1.5 is the ceiling. If you were willing to agree to

1:25:04 a different number, that’s fine. Well, I think if we if we come up with different numbers, we need to go back to FinCom which will re-populate the spreadsheet. And how does that affect the town? I don’t know. If that number comes down, it comes down and adds more cuts and you just put a ceiling on it and they already are working towards that, so. Well, if it comes down for us, why wouldn’t if it’s based on insurance, why wouldn’t it go down for them? I think I think the the base The amount of the savings is in the insurance. And if the insurance is high, it’s high on both sides. If I got ours down, I don’t not to be crass I don’t care if Lisa brings her side down. I’m worried about our budget and our staff. And I don’t I don’t care if Lisa brings her side What’s that? Yes, it’ll be done on the same allocation. You guys bring them solid numbers, get to that percentage, actuals. This percentage was done to do

1:25:51 this. Get to actuals. Okay, this is the intention of the I think she she was using actuals. I don’t she’s not in the room to defend what she did, but she wasn’t she was using actuals, so I think it’s a great » due respect, our budget’s been done for 2 months. We presented them a month ago. Yeah. This we didn’t stall this. We and and I get that. And neither did anybody over there. But we are where we are. We’re ready. Like we were ready. We were sprung like last Wednesday night that 1.5 needed to be cut our budget after we presented and had a hearing, had a school committee meeting the next night. I mean, we’re under the gun. I think we’re working to get there. I just don’t feel like we are allowed to analyze the data that we’re asked to

1:26:37 vote on. You You can look at it. Do you think it’s zero? Do you think there’s zero costs on the on the town side of this? I do not. Okay. So, the question is how far can you bring it down if you’re questioning her data? But that’s my That’s my Question the data. It’s not It’s not question. I just want I want to say this clearly. I I don’t I’m not I’m not questioning Alicia’s ability to do that. I’m What I’m questioning is we went from 18% at one point on insurance to 15 and a seven to a 12 and a nine. » Yeah, and the GIC voted last week. » I understand that. Well, and that’s my That’s exactly That’s Yeah, so how did she have actuals? You’re using old data to tell us we need 1.5. That data was out You’re She’s She’s using the ratio from actuals and applying it to the new budget. On last Wednesday night, Yeah. Patrick

1:27:24 said we need the schools to cut 1.5. On Thursday, the GIC voted. On Friday, we got the new rate. » Yes, and I’ve updated the spreadsheet to reflect to to » And our 1.5 didn’t change with the new I I don’t understand. It It’s It’s been shifting to like 1.59 to 1.47 as we’ve changed the the amounts. » And this is going This I’m not trying to get controversial with you guys cuz I I have I have a lot of issues Yeah, but I mean, a couple A couple percent doesn’t shift this that much. So, So, if you drill into this and shift the 62 to 60, it’s not going to directionally change it that much. Eighteen million dollars in benefits, 2% can shift that a lot for us. That Those are positions. Right. I mean, I I know big numbers it it doesn’t look like a lot, but if I can find enough funds to save a position, that’s what That’s what my job is. I

1:28:10 have to, you know, advocate for the students and the schools. You guys presented 1.5 million less than I had last year did. The GIC rates came out on Friday. I get a full announce for every staff member on what their rate was. And I I have a $350,000 difference from Alicia plus a $350,000 » schedule the schedule was reacting to newspaper articles a week before it came out that that the what was it? The GLP-1 was out. It was it was already reported that the that the » You guys came up with 11% in government formula. I have 9.6%. And and if we bring that down again, what I said earlier is that this 1.5 will come down. We’re now reviewing We’re voting on whatever comes down. We shouldn’t be voting on 1.5 and we shouldn’t be

1:28:57 planning cuts that don’t need to occur. This $350,000 difference between what Alicia put in that spreadsheet that Thatcher showed last Wednesday and what I have plus another $350,000 buffer. That’s 750 that’s $700,000. Which is half of what you’re asking us to come up with. I’m going to just come up with half. I don’t know why nobody wants us to go look at the data. » Al Al I think you should step in here and we need to move this. because I agree like if honestly you sit with her and there’s $750,000 in cuts that don’t have to happen. I mean I’m going to get you on metal. Like that would be fabulous, right? So like please do. Like honestly like if that’s something that and it’s something you need us to participate in then you know, I’m happy to sit with you because I think that

1:29:43 would be a fabulous outcome, honestly. Um Al Al I’d like to make a motion that we direct Mike and John to work together with the finance director to um solidify these numbers and we come back next week with a presentation. With with a new presentation and a budget reflecting whatever numbers that Mike and Alicia agree to. Right. I’ll second that. Okay, motion has been made by Jen. Seconded by Melissa. We’ll do a roll call. Jen. Is Is there any deliberation? I didn’t know » I’m sorry. Yes, ready for the discussion.

1:30:29 Yeah. I think we’re all being told that we need to live in reality. We need to have the right amount of concern. I I need my team to be comfortable.

1:30:45 Okay. Okay. Now, we’ll go to the vote. Jen. In favor. Henry. In favor. Melissa. In favor. Gabe. In favor. The vote is in favor. The motion passes 5-0. Did you second that, Melissa? Yes.

1:31:12 Anything else? No. Just give me my second budget. Yeah, we’re all set with us. I’d like to just thank you guys for having us. Be sure I think this is a very productive conversation. Um and I can tell you that you have my personal commitment to work with you guys as you were discussing as one town. I can’t speak for everyone else, but you have my commitment to work with you guys. I do I I I’ve always said that I can’t, but I never felt comfortable coming to you guys with this without working together with you for no reason. Can’t expect [clears throat] me to make some cuts and for to ask to be participate in the downside and not work together. So, you do have my commitment to fight for us as hard as possible to work with you guys. So, I do appreciate that and you know, and Mike, I look forward to seeing what you find out with Alicia. Hopefully you’re right. Hopefully you find about the cuts on our

1:31:58 side, too. Let’s Let’s figure that out and whatever it ends up at, we can all work together moving forward. And you know, maybe we we can have more meetings on on individual groups or whatever to work together for an overall that we can use schools and the towns to where we want to be. All right, the model that we need. Again Al, I don’t I I’d ask the committee is there anybody interested in opening up for public comment? Before we do that can I can I just speak before we proceed? Can I just want to say I mean this I’m in my 10th year as a superintendent and in spirit of um just sharing uh I’ve had many many times when in collaboration between finance board and superintendent school committee and

1:32:43 select board has not been this you know um open and honest in discussion. So I want to thank you. I know sometimes I may come across like I’m a little bit passionate but I I um in the grand scheme of things the ongoing dialogue is what’s needed. Um you know I haven’t been in all all head out long in talking about stuff here and I think the only way we’re going to get past this is to have these continued conversations and have these continued collaborations and I just wanted to thank you three and the rest of your committees um for the work because it is important work and we can agree to disagree on certain things and that’s fine. That’s how we move forward. So I just wanted to say that publicly thank you. Um I also would like to say um you know as well that this is obviously the most difficult budget season that that I’ve certainly seen um we’ve had here who who How long have you been on FinCom?

1:33:33 He’s our He’s our longest tenured member and I would say by far the biggest challenge that we face um and and what I’ve loved to see in this process is that the two of you are in through this. You really care. You care about our town. You care about our school. You care about the students and it is It shows in everything you look at. So I think that passion is a wonderful thing and I also think that I have seen through the course of this entire process that everyone sitting at this table and I’ll also include Julia and Lisa Marie and I’m going to throw Kristen in there because I know she’s behind a lot of the numbers that I feel very strongly that I’m very thankful and grateful that this is the team that is leading us through this challenge for this process. Thank you. All right. Thank you guys. Thanks a lot. Good night.

1:34:23 Are there any public comment? Yeah, let’s discuss that. Do we have this? I don’t know if we want to talk about this now or have to go home and talk about it, but you know, the the select board has already shifted to talking about an override and I think if we’re going to make some cuts, we’re going to want to figure out how we’re how we’re going to try to get this one back. The end. You know, in an ideal world, yeah, we’re going to we do then you know, the the select board has offered a tier one. So, our tier one would be fully funded schools, right? Like the way that they’re I think Dana described it as invest in in marble. You invest in we’re going to

1:35:09 invest in the school system. Whereas tier three would just be pulling back with some cuts and then and then you know, the administration taking cuts. Um So, I I don’t want to lose any time on that. Yeah. I do want to get a sense of what’s realistic to ask from John. That’s all right. Like Jen said, we I we can’t ask them to do a fully funded budget for this year and the town can’t vote on it. It’s not realistic, but I think we can make strides in that direction and I don’t think it

1:35:52 I’m wondering if it makes sense to and if they’re going to go off and work on what they’re bringing back to us next week so it can be an agenda item perhaps for next week but we can maybe I won’t be here next week and I have a family commitment but it’s for the committee to have a discussion about how we would have moved forward with you know, bringing together having them together what they would recommend that we ask for. I think what we might [clears throat] want to bring sort of our home rule is sort of our version of of what Aaron presented that we would be three-tiered that had you know, the tier the duration in the global budget.

1:36:37 So that we we sort of have something to workshop amongst ourselves and then it’s the simple Simple answer to the question is um a level service budget that we started this whole conversation with back in the last school year would be what I would say go forward with. Is that what it is where we would have been if the if we were to use the sponge that was there? Yeah. I mean that’s pretty simple in my in my opinion it’s pretty simple that would mean that we would mean mean still only maintain what we currently have without fashion putting extra into our programming. » [clears throat] » Um right now we’re at level fund which means we’ve already cut programming, supplies, staff, da da da, reduced budget. We have to do more of that. So if the question is what does John think

1:37:23 that the school needs if that needs to be part of the override, John thinks as the superintendent school that our level services budget that we would have gone for this year had had it not been for this $7 million deficit is what what I feel we need just to maintain. That’s not that’s that’s not even pie in the sky that’s just to maintain and I think anything further than that is just as pie in the sky and quite frankly back to the initial conversation if we’re on how to cut 1. x amount of million dollars, that can’t also be coming back to the school committee for separate budget on top. I just want to be clear. I mean, we can we can probably do the original number, but I I there’s no possible way we can um do a separate budget on top. I don’t

1:38:08 know if that’s what was being asked or it’s out of the question. Yeah, that makes sense. And I agree with you. I think my my question would be since the select board is doing a more complicated tiered approach to a an override, are we going to be on there? And are [clears throat] we just going to be on there for their what what they’re calling tier three to to restore things? Or are we going to contribute to the other teams? You maybe I think I think probably the discussion we’ll have next week if we add it as an agenda item, but those are those are my questions and concerns cuz I think Some some of that is up to us. I mean, we have a warrant article on the town warrant to um

1:38:54 to request additional revenue through whatever you know, through the source of to power position 2 and 1/2 override for the purposes of the school district budget. Yeah. So it’s up to us, I think. Um Yeah, I think it’s just a question Oh, sorry, Jen. Go ahead. I just I [clears throat] also didn’t Maybe I I was listening in last night. Maybe I missed it, but I didn’t I I heard several different um I guess options of the word or scenarios, but I did I wasn’t sure that necessarily there was a conclusion last night through the select board. I don’t know if Jen is still there or not um as to specifically what they’re looking at or that they’re just also starting this process. They’re starting the My understanding was that they’re starting the process. They asked Thatcher to present scenarios. And and honestly, I just don’t want to fall

1:39:41 behind. You know, we’ve been ahead this whole time, right? And I don’t want to be caught flat-footed when it’s time to ask the town for more if we have an opportunity. [clears throat]

1:39:54 So, let’s add it if if everyone agrees, let’s add it. It makes sense, especially next week and in house. I know it’s locked for house meeting next week and it will be out there where it falls relative to ours. So, depending on what happens in that community. Yes, Thatcher is coming back on Thursday » Thursday at 1:00. short window of time to digest. » [clears throat] » Yes, but yeah. But it sounds to me like we’re that folks are including Superintendent are saying that this idea of coming forward with a fully funded budget is at this point not on the table. Just want to make that clear. Or I want some clarity on that. I mean, I think again, we have to live in the real world. I would like to find some ways

1:40:40 some ways some ways to make progress toward you know, like John says, we’re we’re just in a holding pattern with the with the budgets that we’ve been approving. If if the select board is going to take a tiered approach, I want at least some tiers, you know, is it is it kindergarten funding included in there? And I think that’s all we need to discuss next week. But I don’t think I Jen, I agree with you. I don’t think we can say, “Oh, please prepare a level-funded budget by next week or by town meeting, you know.” But I also think What do the other committee members think? I think that we

1:41:27 have a sense of what the needs are. I mean, John has pretty well articulated that you know, we need to fund the level services budget that we brought forward this year. Um I my understanding is the projections have been made about what our contractual obligations look like for the next couple of years. Um, people have priced out what, you know, kindergarten tuition costs. You know, that’s you know, maybe not every single thing that if we all sat around for 6 months we would come up with as things, you know, to fund in the schools, but I think that is really significant progress in the direction that, you know, people have been talking for time about trying to go. Um, and certainly an improvement over

1:42:12 the level of funded budget um, that was presented last month. So, you know, is it an opportunity to try and make something out of the really unfortunate situation that we all find ourselves sitting here having to do. I do want to make sure we understand what the dollar amount is to shore up the multi-year issue we have on our hands. I I’m not interested in backing a band-aid situation. I’m interested in backing something that structurally fixes the problem that we have in front of us. And I think Keith’s point, you’ve already done you understand what the contractual obligations are and what those dollar amounts are. And so, I think while it will not be a perfect multiple month exercise where you go to everybody you ask them what they want,

1:42:58 like we have a pretty directionally accurate number for what that you know, I think we could just keep in mind that that’s that’s Well, no. I’m talking about the initial model based on the government and the school rates. Yeah, if we’re talking about that’s not backed up with 14.75. Right. And then that is 3.5. You know, what I’m saying? So, the numbers will look different, but you’ll have a people suggesting things. I’ll look for the numbers and find any ways he’s putting numbers in. Um, I think I think at the end of the day the room for what we’re talking about income will have a feel also much higher. after making my issue kind of also nervous that’s going to happen. Help us navigate the second part of the question of what are the possible

1:43:44 override number like in the world of our dreams. So, you can make it So, I think so you know, before I when I built this year’s original budget before we even started with the cuts and we had the $2.6 million level level service budget increase. I also did the budget for next year for fiscal 20. So, to answer your question, I know what that number is back but I don’t know that that we’ve made some cuts now. How much else I come out and what is » Well, exactly. So, if the idea is to fully go after what we lost this year less than keep the services the same, that’s a pretty I can give you the number. People talk about dollar increases, I think that’s what we need our guidance from our FinCom because we don’t know what the revenues are. We don’t need all of our budget increase. We need the difference between

1:44:30 difference between difference between the 60 the 63% revenue increase to our budget for us for fiscal year 28 to what the what are the revenue projections and what is our number. That’s what we need for a 28 override. 28 override and I think the town’s in the same situation. They’re talking about a multi-year override, you know, an override to carry us through multiple years. I I can’t in good conscience or whatever give you a prediction for fiscal 29. We started even haven’t started negotiations. All the contracts are up. I mean, we could probably put some placeholder number in there. Um but in in doing that, I can probably do that in a week and get you a number now. And I know there’s a placeholder percentage you can that we want to look at. But

1:45:15 But But I think the other part of this is do we bring the benefits over? Cuz if we do, then I need to build that in for fiscal 28 cuz it’s not going to be a 2% increase on benefits. I think we have to Somebody said it’s not going to be a 6 6 14 and now 75 you know that’s where do we go then that’s why I said I’ll probably be saying this later We don’t know but Mike we also don’t know that’s my question back to the like what was budgeted what was expended we don’t have I don’t think we know what what were in those not you know in those numbers some of that may have been absorbed in what was actually budgeted cuz that’s what used to happen for years you know that they over budgeted the

1:46:02 health insurance and that’s where they you know had sort of found money

1:46:07 All right so we’ve got to go and put on one of the agenda items next week Is there anything else around the budget? Well yeah yeah there’s two things one we still didn’t decide whether we actually want to go forward with this on the benefit side and we might direct Mike to I guess maybe there’s two budgets that need to be prepared one that doesn’t that includes um you know health insurance and and pension benefits and one that doesn’t and I still have the question out on the table whether we want to open this up for public comment Yeah I said yeah I’ll address that I’m open to that we’ll go through all of the committee when we’re when we’re done discussing the fiscal year 27 budget I think the benefits are one line item additional on the budget so I Yeah it was a little bit off to operational line It’s I I think it’s two two additional line items in the budget one for

1:46:54 benefits and one for retirement and pension Oh it could be up to five or six lines I mean I’d rather you managed it and it was in there okay that makes Absolutely and and I think you control it but people always say how much is the benefits cost the town and my answer’s always been I don’t know and in quite honestly they didn’t Yeah and I’m saying not didn’t care but it wasn’t something that I it wasn’t my purpose so I didn’t get myself involved in it and then if we’re if we’re involved in it, our budget I think we’re going to take a greater interest in controlling Let’s say controlling the cost and controlling how much is budgeted. Well, also controlling the cost, Mike. I mean, like, you know, till what happens is you start thinking about when you’re doing hot new hires, etc., like what is

1:47:41 the all-in cost? And, you know, that you know, that’s important. I I also cannot emphasize enough that we going to get one shot at the apple here if this is what’s going to happen, and we absolutely are going to need to have a seat at the table on the negotiation of these benefits going forward. Because if you don’t have that, I’m only one vote, but I can’t I wouldn’t be able to support bringing them over if we have no control over it. It would be like giving us the the contract for the for the five units and having and not having the ability to negotiate the contract. It’s I talked to Beth the other day cuz I was like, “Oh, the private sector, we’d be really negotiating like what are these benefits?” And he’s like, “No carrier will have us. We only sat with them. We’re $2 million liability for

1:48:26 them every year. Like, we’re kind of can’t help.” But we all generally still want to have a seat at the table. » But there’s also I mean, there’s still also you know, I mean, not to get into the nitty-gritty, but, you know, how much of the of the we are we paying versus the employee paying? Those are things that get negotiated. Regardless of the premium. I assume that’s in the contract. I don’t know if it’s for paying or It’s It’s not It’s not part of the you know, the the school contract. It’s part of the pet contract, which right now is being negotiated and that’s on the town side. I’m just saying we need to have a seat at the table. Yeah, agreed. All right, so there’s a suggestion that we open up public comment. This is Just want to know who will I I support that, but I want to know who

1:49:14 will of the committee is. I support. Okay. All right. So, folks, like I have a public comment. Yeah, so folks in the room if you know, we don’t have a sign up sheet but just you know, come up to the mic with still 3 minute Oh yeah, it’s fine. Yeah. And remote folks can raise their hands please if they want to make a comment. So I just want to confirm what John you were saying that if you were asked for what you would like to to include in an override you would say I want my level services budget back. Is that what you’re saying or did you need level funded? Oh no, I I said that if if I were put on the spot tonight to say what what I want I would start with the level services budget

1:49:59 that we started with. Which is two and a half million dollars more than what where you ended up. More than we cut out of the budget, yeah. Right. 2.7 Uh no, cuz some of it came down cuz of revolving funds but I it was 1.7. 1.7 was the level services after we reallocated. Okay. All right, so you need to keep the revolving funds the way that you set them up now or the salaries in that. So so that’s a 1.7 million dollar override plus the contractual increases. Do you guys have any idea how much that should have cost next year? The wage increases? It’s not just contractual. I mean we need we we budget we we project contractual services. » by the way not a press conference. This is a public comment. Yeah, we just » [laughter] » Yeah, I’m just I’m only answering questions. Sorry again. Okay. Sorry to interrupt. Yeah, you guys have the

1:50:44 opportunity to educate the public cuz you are you’re asking them to raise their taxes and so it might be helpful to to speak them along in this process. It would be but it’s also important to hear from the public based on what we deliberated tonight and that’s what I was asking for. I I live in town. I am the public. Also in addition to » So let’s tell us what you think. That is not what I’m going to do. I’m still trying to figure it out just like so many other people but if you don’t want me to ask questions and help the public public better it, I will email you guys. Thank you. For any to me public comment will be you at least saying Liam, you know, I would like to suggest to the committee what you just said. And that that will be fine under public comment. I would like to » I’d like to suggest the committee that they keep the public informed around Oh

1:51:30 yeah, or is answer my emails when it comes to um our media requests in general when it comes to what it is that you’re going to be looking for and asking because then Right. There you go. Thank you. That’s very fair that your emails get answered Liam. That’s a fair request.

1:51:50 I’ll send you one tonight then. » [laughter] » Sarah » I’m not the spokesperson, that’s the chair.

1:51:59 You talked about an MOU and the need for it. Um we signed an MOU in 2019-2020 school year between select board, the school committee that there would be designees from the school committee to select board and um the FinCom that met uh where Dan said that it needs to be signed and and then we have some assurances. I just want to read back his text thread from October of 24 where I informed the then chair of the select board um of the of the MOU and I said there’s an MOU between the two boards that states we will have one. Jason Silver wrote it. Um Kyle should have a copy of it and she said FinCom and school committee. I said no, select board, school committee along

1:52:44 with FinCom. She said that’s not Thursday’s meeting, that’s not Thursday’s meeting. Um And it she then this is where you need to be concerned. An entirely different board is not bound to this is the the select board members’ comments. An entirely different board is not bound to any MOU from years past, but I don’t have a problem or reason not to. I then send the MOU. This is what um I could pull up from the email. It’s signed by joint meeting. I tell her the dates and to ask Kyle for it. That Lucy needs to draft it. I totally agree with the intent and we should absolutely, but I’m just saying we don’t have to. Those are This is the the select board. Those are basically vision statements and when a board entirely turns over,

1:53:29 visions can change. Just making a technical point. So, while you’re saying your safeguard is going to be an MOU, it didn’t save us here, now did it? I I been requesting that we still have these meetings, which we’ve had up until that point. The reps at those meetings have changed. Typically on the select board side, Moses had been the rep. Um and then they faulted. And and so, if you’re pinning your hat on this flip-flopping on the procedure is going to be safeguarded by an MOU, you had the MOU. It exists. You should be educating yourselves when you get on a board about the MOUs in place historically. Many of you were around attending these meetings and it’s not it’s not okay to to put out to the public, “Oh, we’re going to put this on paper.” It’s on the paper. It exists and

1:54:17 you’re not adhering to it. And and to say that’s going to be the safeguard that’s going to keep the schools next year from flip-flopping to another area or being asked to flip-flop again, so that we’re always the one that is on the wrong end of whatever matrix we’re using, like that’s just laughable.

1:54:42 Okay, Okay, we’ll close. Anyone online? No. No hands are up. I will close public comment. Thank you. Looking for a motion to adjourn. I make a motion to adjourn. I’ll second. All right. Motion made by Moses and seconded by Henry. Um I think we need to uh roll call this, Jen or Gent? Um in favor. Henry? In favor. Melissa? In favor. Kate? In favor. Al in favor. The motion passes 5-0. Thank you everyone. The meeting is adjourned. Also, Frank, can you make sure that’s off?