Select Board: August 28, 2024

Transcript captured from MHTV’s Vimeo auto-captioning. No speaker labels; proper names and dollar figures occasionally misheard. Click any timecode to jump to that moment in the source video.

0:09 Okay. Everybody have their microphones on? Yes, ma’am. Okay. Okay. Good evening. Um, it is Wednesday, August 28th, 2024. Um, calling this meeting to order at 7 0 3. Just an announcement regarding our new format. We have moved to a webinar format, so it’s pretty much the same as the Zu mix. However, you will see, um, the board’s, um, video screen, but you will maybe not be able to see your own. And when I call for public comment on the agenda, I just ask that you make your comment. Uh, you have to raise your hand, um, on the Zoom feature, and, uh, you’ll be asked to unmute yourself when, um, when I call on you. Um, okay. First item on our agenda is public comment.

0:57 I’d ask that people, um, remember that public comment is an opportunity for your elected officials to hear your thoughts and feedback and concerns on matters. And there’s a lot of people tonight, I’m sure there’s a lot of people on Zoom. So I’d ask everybody if we could try to keep those comments to about three minutes. All of our emails are on the town website. Um, anybody can call and schedule set up a time to meet with one of their elected officials. But in terms of public comment, just just so people have the right expectations, we, we don’t entertain question and answer format. It’s just a opportunity for us to hear from you. So if anybody here would like to make public comment, please, um, let’s just go to the microphone and we can alternate if there’s people online, go

1:43 to the microphone and just state your name and your street. Uh, for the record,

1:54 John Deano, six Trager Road Model Head, Massachusetts. Madam Chair, I do not, um, intend to keep my comments to three minutes because part of what I’m going to say is gonna be reading an email from you sent from your private email account to select people in town advocating for three A, which I don’t think, and my concern is, is your job from Aaron Nunan, Evan Keeny at Gmail date, August 27th, 2020 4, 1 40 7:00 PM two, those, uh, recipients have redacted to protect my sources because I wasn’t meant to receive this from you. Subject, Marblehead Housing Coalition. Kurt James is a real estate development attorney,

2:42 represents banks and Financeers, and he is one of the founding members of what is a defacto special interest group in town named the Marblehead Housing Coalition, which this board is now aligning itself with Behind our Backs, which may be a violation of open meeting law. We’re researching that you can make all the facial gestures you like Ms. Newan, but it is a serious issue because whether or not it is ethical and whether or not is a technical violation, it still doesn’t look right and it doesn’t smash. Uh, pass the smell test. Dear friends, some Marblehead residents interested in housing advocacy and affordability have organized a citizens group dedicated to increasing housing choices in town

3:28 and community driven development. We are so lucky to have so many active citizen groups in town, and I am thrilled to welcome this new group to the mix. If you could please check out their website, which doesn’t list any of their members, and share your email that was not in your email. I’m done editorializing there. Um, and share your email at the bottom of the website. I would appreciate it. You’ll be able to get on your email distribution list and keep abreast of ways you can help advance this cause I wanna b linger there for a minute ways you are advocating people advance this cause as chair of this select board.

4:15 Now, I don’t think that’s your job. I don’t think you’re here to be a lobbyist. I think you’re here in an open town democratic forum to inform the voters so that they can make a choice. A choice we’ve already made. I continue your email, help advance this cause and help inform voters of the importance of Mvt Communities three A compliance, and then you share the link to the Marblehead Housing Coalition. I expect that we have, we’ll have a late fall special town meeting, so you’re letting them know to allow a second opportunity for the town to preserve its favorable grant status and comply with the law. I’ll come back to that in a moment. We’ll lose out on Coastal Zuni Resiliency, state funding

5:01 and other discretionary grant awards, which we are deeply depending on over the next five years and beyond. Our sustainability coordinator will grant writer and Newtown Planner her expressed a lot of anxiety around Marblehead passing. Its multi-family zoning overlay plan. Additionally, the issue of our MBTA community’s ACT status is on a select board agenda for tomorrow night. There is public comment at the top of the meeting if anyone would like to speak on it. And then you provide the select board agenda link to your select friends. Please share with your networks and help spread the word about this new group exclamation point. Thank you. Exclamation point, Aaron. Now, I wish to point out first, uh, since this was provided what appears to be from your personal email account,

5:47 that it would not be subject to disclosure in any future Freedom of Information Act responses. That’s the first issue that I’m concerned about as a voter in this town. The second issue that I’m concerned about as a voter in this town is your advocacy and the advocacy of other members on this board to undo the democratic process this town has followed for 375 years. At the town meeting in May, I filed motions to postpone this vote to December, and I did that because the Supreme Judicial Court has under, its on its docket, the Milton lawsuit, which will determine the Attorney General’s ability to enforce the law contrary to the terms of three A itself.

6:35 Now, you’re an attorney. I don’t know if you’ve done any appellate work. I have. You should know full well that a meeting in November is premature. Not to mention the fact that not one member of the, of the select board accepting Mr. Fox, who was then not a member of the select board, but if he was at the meeting, it includes him. Not one member stood in support of my motion to continue that vote. Not one. So we had the opportunity in May to delay the vote to December to give the SJC enough time to make his decision, perhaps on the pending lawsuit. But you didn’t stand in support of that. No one at this board did that motion failed.

7:24 We then had our vote and three A failed by a majority vote in our Democratic open town meeting. But rather than respect that vote, we had a motion for reconsideration filed by someone after many people left. And that motion failed. And it was voted against by some people who actually supported Article 36 because they didn’t like the fact that democracy was being undermined and they don’t like it. Now, I have a petition with over 440 signatures on it that I started the Monday before last. That is asking you not to convene a special town meeting and undermine our democratic process,

8:11 which is exactly what you are doing. Our first town meeting was in 1648, and it was an open town meeting. We’ve had 375 years of Democratic process. Just because you Miss Noonan personally liked this measure doesn’t give you the right to go behind our backs to solicit individuals to appear to becoming his microphone organically. To support this based on talking points of a special interest group that includes real estate developers, real estate developing attorneys, and represent real estate financiers, real estate, uh, property managers. So I’m here tonight, three minute rule or not. Excuse me. Are We going to enforce a three minute rule? Is

8:56 Not, there’s not a rule, sir. It’s an open town meeting. That’s a suggestion. You may not like what I have to say, but I am going to say it Keano. We do, but I am going to say it. Do You have other hands online? Uh, Kyle or Patrick? Is anybody on hand? Okay, all. You may continue for a I’ll a few more minutes. In any event, I, I find what this board is doing, appalling. I find what you are doing personally appalling. I question whether or not you had on this email distribution list one or more members of this select board because if you did, you violated the open meeting laws. I question whether or not this is a concerted effort, including other members of this board who are writing similar emails.

9:40 With that, I’ll conclude. Thank you for your time.

9:50 Uh, one hand up. Um, uh, Eileen, Matthew, Eileen, Mathew, I’ve gotta just first or just let allow her to speak.

10:03 Eileen, are you on? Yeah, can you hear me? Oh, stays attendee. Can you, can you hear me? Yes. Okay, thank you. Yeah, I will assume 44 Longview Drive. Uh, I just wanted to say that I am happy to hear that we’re reconsidering, um, having Marblehead look at complying with the MVTA Communities Act. And I feel there are several good reasons to support all the planning board’s work on these zoning proposals. One is the fact, uh, that these, this zoning group of zoning proposals has implications for marble head’s attempt to meet net zero by 2040 climate goals. And I’ll mention two aspects of

10:49 how it will help us reduce reliance on cars for a commuting, and B, doing daily errands and taking kids to school. And I think regarding commuting, because the zoning supports new housing to be located within half mile public transit, it will allow people who are commuting to Boston to walk or bike from their homes to the MBTA bus line and then commute to either by the bus, either land commuter rail one to land for MBTA or all the way into Haymarket, ultimately reducing future need for and use of cars for commuting. Um, vehicle emissions are currently one of the largest contributors to marble head’s carbon emissions 20 per 27% based on 2015 auto ownership numbers, which is the latest the town has available right now.

11:35 At that time, we had 22,000 cars in Marblehead, uh, despite our population being around 20,000. And many of those cars are being used for commuting. Secondly, regarding traffic for daily errands and getting kids to school, the planning boards proposed zoning changes to allow the building of multi-family homes, apartments, and condos in denser spaces will help reduce the flow of traffic in my mind. Because two of these zoned areas are quite close to other surfaces, either in services, either in old towns such as Crosby’s, and, um, and yet many other business people like to lint or midtown that within walkable distance to, um, you know, village Plaza and so forth. The third Broon road is close to three schools. So this will certainly reduce traffic

12:22 and admissions for people parents driving students to and from school. And then the other environmental consideration in my mind is that multi-family housing configuration is inherently a lower carbon footprint than a single family housing configuration because there’s more used to the developed land houses more people, and in, in any of those buildings, it’s more efficient to be heating three stories, uh, for three different family units. Uh, and he, so heating and cooling technology can be much more efficient, and yet it leaves open existing green space to help clean our atmosphere through plantings. And finally, uh, the other thing I’ve heard quite a bit when I’ve been at, um, MMLB meetings and so forth, is that new housing is desperately needed. Many town departments can’t recruit employees due

13:09 to the lack of reasonably priced housing for young families. And then there are many seniors of which I’m a the demographic who are, we’re currently, if we wanted to downsize, we’re currently priced out. There’s no place to go and it’s to a smaller home, um, or an apartment, uh, in Marblehead. So people end up kind of in this conundrum of stuck in a single family home. So I’m, I’m in support of reconsidering it and I thank the select board for starting the process. Uh, and I look forward to further discussion. Thank you. Thank you, Eileen. Is there anyone else? Sure. Just come up to the mic

13:48 Looking at this whole thing. It’s not a housing problem, it’s an MBTA business plan. Nobody in this town, nobody ever planned on building. Pardon? Sorry. It’s just your name and address, please, please. Oh, sorry. Excuse me. David Reed, one 12 French Street Mar. Thanks. Thanks, David. Uh, it’s A-M-B-T-A business plan. It has nothing to do with housing per se. Nobody in in town said, Hey, we’ll build 900 new units, right? And if you need housing for affordability, you’re only gonna get 90 out of this plan. So why not just build 90 units? Why do we need another 810 units right, that are gonna be in the million and a half to $5 million range? Why do we need ‘em? Nobody planned on it, right? It’s a real estate, uh, movement. And what happens now in, in the state, you’ve got 351 towns,

14:36 only 177 have to build. Why is that? Why not the rest of the state? Why aren’t they building who requires them to build just us? Why? And the why is because if the MBTA can build a million new houses on the route, they get more traffic. And that’s what this is all about. More traffic for the MBTA is not housing. ‘cause we don’t need 810 new multi million dollar apartments. We, and I also think Dan Fox and other real estate people should abstain from voting on this simply because they have an interest. Okay? You agree with me, Dan? Uh, Madam Chair? May I speak? Um, let’s, Uh, he’s shaking his head. He’s shaking his head. That’s why I asked if, If, if you I’ll speak about that later for

15:22 Sure. Yeah. Yeah. But if we have to build 810 units to get 90 affordable units, it makes no absolute, it makes no sense. Why not just build 90 units affordable housing and forget the other HUN 810. There’s no reason to build them except for somebody who’s gonna profit on it. Thank you. Thank you, David. Anybody else?

15:52 Kurt James Norman Street. Um, I’m very much in favor of having this revisited. Um, you know, in Milton, um, the voting to town meeting was basically a vehicle to bring it to the voters, to a town wide vote, which I think is really critical here. So I think if we’re trying to support a democratic approach, I think this is a, a logical step to bring it to the, to a town wide vote, and not just limit it to what is generally a, a fairly small audience at a town meeting. So I applaud your effort in supporting that. Um, I, you know, to attorney dip Panos comments earlier, I was not a founder of that coalition group. I’m not, I haven’t been involved with them at all. I don’t know why he’s said in one hand he doesn’t know who they are, in the other hand painted a picture

16:37 that they’re all self-interested. People are promoting their businesses or their client’s businesses. So I think there’s some maybe inconsistency there. Um, having said that, I have been involved, um, in town housing matters for 30 odd years. I grew up here. And so these matters are very important to me personally. And so not with seeing that I, I do, this is my job. My day job is doing affordable housing. Um, but this is not an affordable housing initiative. It’s a housing initiative. It was initiated by the Executive Office of Housing and Livable Communities, not by the MBTA. The idea is to promote, um, smart growth development very similar to our smart growth overlay district bylaw. Um, I know there’s been a lot of concern about

17:22 building 900 units. I think that if you actually look at the facts in town that’s not supported by any of our history. We’ve had 40 B here since 1968. We’ve had a smart growth overlay district for, uh, over 10 years. I’ve kind of lost track of the timing. We have an incentive zoning bylaw. We now have an A DU bylaw that there’s been protests and concerns about each of those as they came up. But if you look back, we’ve had two 40 B projects in 60 years, 60 ish years. We’ve had zero smart growth overlay district projects in the last whatever it is, 10 or 15 years. Um, we may have had a, a couple of A-D-U-A-D-U units, um, but that certainly hasn’t changed the character of the town. We’ve had one incentive zoning bylaw development.

18:08 So those, I know that folks are concerned about change and, and those are valid concerns. And I think anyone who’s grown up here and cares about the town wants to maintain its integrity and its character. But this proposal is not gonna change the character of the town. Um, and so again, I support your efforts in, in moving this forward. Thank you. Thank you. Just come up to the mic if you have.

18:34 Hi, Neil Kaki, number two, front Street. Uh, I am one of those people who is opposed to bringing this to another vote. I voted against this at the last town meeting and didn’t get a chance to vote against it again because I was one of the people who left thinking that that business was concluded. And I feel very much that, uh, my will and the will of the voters was subverted in that attempt. Um, so I also grew up here, right? And I don’t think that anyone can say adding 900 units, that’s probably gonna have anywhere at a minimum of two people per unit. But let’s face it, really more than that, okay, in a town of roughly 20,000 people is some small impact. And, uh, I didn’t come here to talk about climate change, but I will have to say that anyone who thinks adding that number of housing units, that number of people is somehow going to reduce your carbon footprint

19:20 is indulging in some pretty convoluted logic. Thank you.

19:27 Anyone else? Oh yeah, sure.

19:33 My name is, uh, Peter Lake, 14 Mulford Street. I, uh, came to Marble Head in voluntarily, um, 79 years ago as an infant. Um, my mother’s was in real estate from 1949, and I’ve been doing it for 35 years. So I’ve got a pretty good grip on real estate. I am an utterly opposed to this. I do not think, um, it’s going to make housing more affordable and affordable. As was just said, this is not about affordable housing at all. I hear about it. But I wanna read to you just, uh, briefly from the, uh, website of the act, which I’ve read completely and I, I’m sure you’ve all read, read it completely.

20:20 But there are three bullet points. This is from the website. By allowing multifamily housing near transit, we can create new housing in walkable neighborhoods closer to transit. This is not just good housing policy, it is good climate and transportation policy too. The result of transit oriented development is point number one, more housing closer to the places that we go every day, such as local shops, jobs, schools, restaurants, parks, et cetera. Number two, better access to work services and other destinations by increasing mobility and utilization of public trans, uh, transit.

21:07 Three, reduced reliance on single occupancy vehicles, which, uh, supposedly helps the, the climate crisis. Now, the transit we are, uh, assigned, uh, known in this project because we are adjacent to transit, not because we have such, um, overworked bus service. Uh, the bus goes by my house every night, and I, um, for six years I’ve never seen a single rider on it. And I’m sure that, uh, the statistics on other bus transit people, um, going to work aren’t suddenly gonna be jumping on the bus. And if they need transit, because we are adjacent, they have to go to swamps skit,

21:53 they’ll have to go to Salem. They don’t walk in there to transit. They’re gonna be taking single occupancy cars. The, the website itself is self-contradictory as to, uh, how unsuitable this act is for Marblehead. And, uh, I wish, uh, you all would decide here and now that no special meeting, um, will be needed. I don’t expect that to happen. But thank you for your time.

22:27 Um, yeah, just, you can just go to the mic, feel free, someone on. And then I guess we have somebody on the online,

22:37 Renee Ramirez Kini, uh, Beverly Avenue. Um, I wanna say that I was actually very relieved, uh, to learn that, uh, the select board is reconsidering or is planning to have, uh, another town meeting in, uh, November. I think it’s the responsible thing to do, um, to give voters, uh, another opportunity to really better understand the implications of three, a zoning change. I don’t see how we can let 33 votes on the second night of town meeting determine first if we will literally break the laws of the commonwealth. And second, put it put us at risk at a time

23:23 that we’re in having such financial difficulties of losing, you know, really precious funds, uh, for infrastructure projects and sustainability grants that are, uh, already underway. I understand at town meeting there were a lot of, I think, myths and misinformation, uh, that was, uh, going around. There seemed to be, I didn’t hear a lot of issues raised about the plan itself because I think Becky Kern cutting and the planning board and all the public input that was, uh, considered, uh, came up with a very thoughtful plan that made sense, uh, for, for, uh, Marblehead.

24:10 Um, and I think it’s a plan that would actually improve those areas, uh, that were rezoned and really expand our tax base, which we very, very, uh, much need right now, as well as our housing options. I’m really tired of saying goodbye to friends who’ve lived here for decades, contributing so much to this town and our community. Uh, and then see, you know, when a health issue, uh, necessitates more accessible housing or landlord maybe takes their rental off the market, any number of reasons, uh, they are very quietly forced to leave town because we have no more options for them.

24:58 And, um, I’m also tired of, uh, watching my neighbor, hardworking family, uh, on the block who born and raised here for years now, trying to, uh, go from a rental to getting into their first home. They’ve been trying for years now. So I think the housing crisis is a Massachusetts a statewide pro problem. It’s a nationwide problem, but it’s very much a marblehead problem, uh, that we can’t, I I would like to see us be part of the solution to this in, uh, also not further exacerbate, uh, the precarious financial situation that we’re in now by risking losing precious federal,

25:46 precious, uh, state funding. Thank you. Yes, please. You wanna go online? Oh, um, Hi, Mave Rice 14 Hawk Road. I just wanna say that we have a history in this town of putting out what’s happening at town, meeting people that are engaged, attend town meeting, and they vote, and the vote told, it seems outrageous to me that people don’t like the outcome of the vote. And so we’re starting again. I think it’s wrong to do it. And I think we’ve actually been asked the question twice and twice. The townspeople said no. And I think you should end it.

26:31 Sadie. Sadie, Tara. Yeah, Tara is there. Um, Sadie, if you wanna unmute yourself, you can make your comment.

26:43 Hey, this is Tara. Are you looking for Sadie or me? Oh, sorry. Was it, oh, sorry. Yes, you, thank you. Sorry. Okay. Um, no, actually, you know what? Mave who just spoke before me said it perfectly. Um, this is kind of crazy that we vote as a town and we voted twice and we voted this down. Um, and now we’re being called on to vote it again. This is insane. And it goes against the town’s, you know, our whole ideology. I mean, this is just, it’s not what we’re about. So the fact that we’re being asked to show up for another special meeting and vote again, um, it doesn’t make sense. It, it goes against what Marblehead is about.

27:32 Okay. Thank you. Thanks.

27:39 Sure. Albert Jordan, rose Roosevelt Avenue. Um, I spoke in favor of this, but I, I think you people, I’ve heard some comments here tonight, and I don’t think the statements are true, what everyone’s saying or I’m not informed properly. And one of the things is that the town employees can’t afford to live there, can’t afford to live here. I know years ago, department heads that retired that had to move into the senior center center, elderly housing on the pensions that they used to pay here. And I know a lot of people that are retired now that don’t have a lot of money, um, and they have houses in Marblehead and their spouse passes on and they’re down to one income. They don’t have two social security checks come in.

28:24 So their, their pay goes considerably down. Um, so what my point is on this, a lot of the town, the town administrator, the police chief, these people making well over a hundred, a hundred thousand dollars a year are living out of town. So we’re worrying about the environment and a lot, nothing against the town administrator, nothing against the police chief, but most of these department heads that we’re hiring now, originally they lived in Marblehead and they were very dedicated to this town seven days a week. And they have a half a day Friday now, and a holiday every month, if not two. Um, it’s a part-time job. Now, you don’t have that in the private sector. My nephew just went to work for Raytheon. He’s working 11, 12 hour days to get a half hour a Friday off every other week.

29:10 He’s commuting two and a half, three hours a day, um, for Marblehead. But what if we’re worrying about the environment? And the other thing is the lower end, when I worked for the town, the peanuts that I was paid here, and that’s where most people are getting paid peanuts here. They’re never able gonna be able to afford to live in this town. Most people. Um, I just had a house on my street, four houses from me, three bedroom and two bathrooms without even a on street parking spot. A billion, $50,000. Okay? So let’s not tell people we’re making affordable housing in this town because there’s no affordable housing unless it’s gonna be subsidized someplace. So, um, but we need, uh, to go back the old way. We just hired a veteran’s agent.

29:55 We’re worrying about the environment. Are any of these public employees beside this guy sitting here that has an electric car and supposedly taking the train to work? I’d like to know how many of these people that are department heads coming from out of town that are using the MBTA every day. Um, I bet, I bet the number’s very low. Um, but, but what my point is, let’s not mislead the public. ‘cause I go by these elementary schools. They closed the coffin school that I used to walk to two streets from me. And now if I had children or anyone in my neighborhood, they can’t walk to the Brown school. Um, so it go by the Maple Street in the afternoon. All these people that are worried about the environment, they’re all parked at the no parking signs on both sides of the road, screwing the traffic up.

30:42 And they live in the area. And these people, most of them don’t work. And they, they’re taking their cars and they live close to the schools. So let’s not tell the public that this is gonna help out on the environment. I just looked at what they’re doing over the Bertis and Salem, and I think it’s a 40 B. And they’re putting 220 apartments on Lowering Ave. Okay? And that’s gonna be good for the environment. It’s already a traffic jam. And 95% of the people that live in Marblehead have cars that are going out every morning to go to work. Um, so what my point is, let’s not falsify things and tell these people this is gonna be good for the public. And, uh, Mr. Lake, I think his name was the MBTA bus

31:28 that should be assessed too, because, you know, it’s busy for a couple hours in the morning and it’s busy for a couple hours in the afternoon, and nine outta 10 times when you go by a 40 passenger bus, most of the night till midnight or whatever time they run, there’s one or two people. A lot of times it’s just a bus driver alone or one person. And that’s not good for the environment. A diesel bus running around at the rates that those people make. So we need to look at everything. And the other thing we need to do is a lot of cities and towns and a lot of states, when someone turns 65, they get a tax break because they got no kids in school. We’re pushing a lot of the older people that wanna live in this town wanna die in their houses.

32:13 I, I took care of my mother. She didn’t go to one of those rat trap nursing homes three years. I had to be there seven days a week and move back in with her. So, so what I’m saying to you is, you know, let’s not falsify the records and tell people this is good for the environment. ‘cause there’s no affordable housing in Marblehead unless it’s gonna be subsidized by someone. Thank you for your comments.

32:44 Um, Bill Keeney to Beverly Avenue. I know there’s a lot of process issues. I was at the last town hall meeting and there was a lot more talk about process and manipulation of the process than there was about the substance of the plan. So I really sat down and wanted to focus just on the plan. So all I wanna do is tell you what I like about this plan. And I do like this plan. I do think it’s good for Marblehead. I think it’s very good for Marblehead. And I’ll be very brief. I got a booklet here ‘cause I’m 80 years old. My mind’s still untact, memory’s not so good. But I will speak for only two minutes.

33:19 A more diversified housing stock. That’s what we’re talking about. We’re not talking about affordable, a more diversified housing stock. If we develop a more diversified housing stock, it will help our seniors downsize and stay here. It’ll help our children who grew up in this town and then have to leave the town. They’ll be able to stay in the town, have children of their own. And that’s intergenerational community building. That’s what makes the real character of a community. It’ll help our most important town workers. I’m not talking about the guys with six figure salaries, the teachers, the janitors, the construction workers, the the public health workers, the, the department of public health workers, the police, the fire,

34:04 it’ll help them live here. That’s added quality to the town. I think that stuff’s important. Most importantly, it’ll increase our tax revenue without increasing our tax rate. We all b***h about the tax rate, pardon my language, but it’ll increase our tax revenue without increasing our tax rate. And it will also increase our access to state funds for education, education for infrastructure, for sea walls, for other opportunities. Partnering with the state around the issue of affordable housing is not a problem. It’s not a bad thing.

34:43 Finally, I want to commend the planning team in the heat of this complicated divisive issue. This planning team, whoever put this plan together, and I read it for hours, whoever put this plan together, really developed a very measured plan, a thoughtful plan that will allow for gradual multi-family housing, gradual multi-family housing under global control. That’s what it did. And you need to be thanked for it. Finally. And I, I appreciate the fears and concerns and the legitimacy of the opposition. I really do. But I also want the opposition to realize that if we walk away from this plan, if we walk away from this plan in partnership with the state, taxes will go up significantly.

35:32 And the quality of living will go down and people will not be happy with that outcome. So I welcome the opportunity for a second opportunity for more people to know about this, to make sure we legitimately have a consensus. Three, two votes. It’s not a consensus. So I support having another town meeting. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Yes, I saw you first. Is there anybody else online? Yes. Okay. All right. We’ll take, um, somebody online, I guess. And then, So I have, um, get loud at 1945. They just disappeared. Get loud. Yes. Get loud. 0 1 9 4 5.

36:15 Okay. Heather Fitzgerald, 180 7 West Shore Drive, Marblehead. Okay. I think it’s really unfair to even try to bring this back to vote since the town already voted a strong No, I think the people that voted were educated in what they were voting on. And I, I just think that this plan is, should not be brought back.

36:37 Thank you. Okay. Um, this gentleman,

36:44 I’m Just gonna move this up a little bit. There we go. Uh, Angus McQuilkin 39 Tyson Lane Marble Head. Um, I, I am a founding member of the Marblehead Housing Coalition, uh, really important new local organization. I’m not a realtor, I’m a private citizen, a taxpayer, a homeowner, uh, a uh, a voter in this community who’s just trying to make the community a better place, uh, for people to live. Um, I I just wanna start by addressing comments that were made by the very first speaker, which I found to be unnecessarily personal and divisive. I think it is the role of town officials to advocate. Um, and people don’t check their voice and democracy at the door when they run for local office. Uh, it is the role that is the job of local officials,

37:30 of elected officials to advocate. I served as chief of staff for a member of the state senate for 11 years. We would, with regularity, encourage supporters of the things we were trying to accomplish to show up at public hearings and participate in democracy. So this is not only something that’s not nothing wrong with doing it as part of the job of an elected official. I commend you as members of the Board of Selectmen for your active effort to engage the residents of Marblehead in our local democracy. I hope you’ll keep doing it and I will do it with you on the merits of the issue before us. I’m here to speak in support of holding a special town meeting. Um, I say that because I wanna see this community be part of the solution. We have a well-documented shortage of housing in this state. Every community in the state needs to do its part

38:16 to help address that challenge. I wanna see us be a community that is welcoming and that provides options for people who already live here to continue to be able to afford to live here. And for people who would like to live in this great community, to have the opportunity to do that. I don’t think we should build a fence at our borders. I think we should be a welcoming community. I also don’t wanna see us lose access to state grants and resources, which would invariably be the outcome if we in fact do not, uh, come into compliance with the state law by the deadline for doing so. I do think that there was a great deal of disinformation that was distributed before the vote at town meeting.

39:01 I took a second look at the flyer, the anonymous flyer that was distributed urging people to vote no on the article at town meeting. The most notable thing about it was it was anonymous. Didn’t say who paid for it. Didn’t say who it was from. Now we all know from the internet that when people get to anonymously make public statements, they often err on the side of erroneously representing the facts. I read the flyer and it said, it actually said this. At 54 acres of our town would be permanently handed over to the state to control. Nothing could be further from the truth. Any lawyer worth the title would tell you that that’s not true through a review of the statute. So I think we should, with information in hand with voters educated about the facts, have a town meeting, uh,

39:49 to allow us an opportunity to revisit this issue and to make a well-informed decision as a community. And I hope that will be the outcome. Thank you very much. Thank you. I did not interrupt you, sir. Interrupt, sir, I did not interrupt your comments. Stop the meeting. And you do not have the floor. Sir. You do not have the floor, sir. I’m talking, I’m talking. I, I know that. What facts did We not have? Please, Mr. I don’t believe this is a back and forth. Lemme Interrupt the meeting. You had your time to speak. Thank you very much. Oh, sorry. I, there’s nothing In the open meeting While it says I can’t speak twice. I am, I am. I’m as the chair of this, this committee. Well, I’m going to speak for a minute now. I’m gonna speak for a minute. Now. You’re stopping the meeting in a public meeting. I have two FOIA requests in my hand. Hold on. People responses to a FOIA request.

40:35 Sir, please sit down that Has all the facts. Other People waiting to speak with this other. Please sit down, have All the facts, and I’m willing to share them with anyone who wants Them. Please sit down, sir. Book Can included. That’s all I wanted to say. Anyone who wants the facts, I’m about the grants. I have the facts. Please sit down to sit down With our meeting. I’m just, I want To share. You did not, we just asked you nice way to sit down. There’s plenty of people waiting to speak, sir. And we let let you speak for a long time tonight. Willing? You have the facts. All I’m saying Mr. Fox, I would love to speak to you at some point, sir. I be happy to do so. Absolutely. Okay. So is there anybody online? We, I’m not sure Tara’s meeting is up again. I think that’s, is there somebody new we haven’t heard from? I think it just at this point, ‘cause it’s 45 minutes into the meeting. I think

41:21 I, uh, Jonathan GL 32 Peach Islands. Um, well first of all, I wanted to mention that Mr. Alkin was the person who brought forward the motion to reconsider. And as we saw right here where his emotions lie, that was, that was not a proper motion to reconsider. Motion to reconsider is for someone who’s reconsidering their own vote based on new information that was presented. It was a travesty. There should have been no motion to reconsider and that I put forward on the responsibility of the people controlling the meeting. Whether or not Mr. MacMulkin is gonna be a weasel and bring that is up to Danny. Sir, having said that, please can

42:07 We, alright. Can we please have some decorum here? Fine. We all can have different opinions, but please speak nicely. Alright. We didn’t name call you. That’s, this is not what we need in this town. Fair enough. We disagree, but we can listen to each other Alright. In a kind manner. Okay. And the other thing I wanted to mention is, I have no idea why we’re talking. We’re reconsidering all the merits here. What are we talking about? This isn’t ground dog day. The question I have is, what, is there a sliding scale for democracy in this town since when is like 33 votes, 32 votes, 31 votes. Would it been better for you if it was a hundred votes?

42:48 I mean, what if the, the what if the vote went the other way? Sir, your comments are intended to direct to the board. Okay, so let’s again, All alright. They’re intended for the, for the board. And I hope that they would keep that in their consideration. The decisions are made by the people of the town, not by the board. Why is the board deciding that we have to have a special meeting because they didn’t get their way. There was a talk about misinformation and the prior vote and that we should have the re-vote based on misinformation. To one extent. I understand the misinformation argument. You know why? Because we were all told at town meeting that we, we would be subject to something like $14 million worth of lost grants. We had to hunt through foyer requests

43:37 to actually find out about those lost grants information that you had. And the information once we got the foer requests is no money. So that was the misinformation.

44:02 Is there anybody else? So Tara seems to have her, I don’t know if her hands back up. Did, um, Mr. Oh, Mr. Mr. Full, did you wanna make a comment? I’d love

44:17 Good evening to the select board, everybody that’s in attendance this evening. I just wanna reiterate what I’ve said on the internet for a few days. Marblehead town meeting has been touted as the purest form of democracy in this country. This town is the cradle of democracy in this country. What settled at town meeting is settled at town meeting. Shame on anyone that wants to push this agenda forward. You usurping the voter’s rights by doing so. It was defeated three, if not four times at town meeting. It should be end game. We have lost no grants. We have lost no funding.

45:04 If we’re worried about building the Village Street bridge, let’s pass an override. We’ve passed them for schools that we didn’t need. You name it. Please do your duty as a select board and respect the will of the voter. Thank you.

45:26 Is there anybody else? There’s no one online. T you. Okay. Um, so I will just take a moment, um, to respond to some direct personal attacks on my integrity earlier tonight. Um, I will just say that there is no secret agenda. I don’t know if, um, electoral politics works that we all run on platforms. I have on my website been a been, uh, identifying the housing issue since I ran for this seat. And people know that about me. People chose like that about me, and that’s why I’m here. It’s not a secret that I am in favor of working around finding solutions

46:12 to our town’s unmet housing needs and the needs of seniors. Uh, additionally, I will also say that it is not a secret agenda. That this board feels that this issue is very, very important. We have adopted a housing production plan in 2021, and since then, we have now two committees that we appoint to work to help address the issues of, um, our, our lack of diverse inventory of housing for seniors, our aging population. So this is all on the website. We’ve discussed this in public meetings. There’s no secret agenda. And I, you know, I I’m not sure

47:00 what the point of that was, but, um, I, I don’t, there’s no secret agenda or organizing that’s, that’s going on. So anyway, I would, um, like to continue with the meeting and can I go? Yes. I Just in the interest of, I know we have some interviews and some professionals here for, um, for doing presentations. Could we, um, is it possible to, uh, make a motion to just maybe move the town administrator update, like just do some flexibility in the schedule, just so we could share through the presentation just for the professional Staff, um, proceed with the licensing and, um, move the town update to the end. Okay. Just in the interest of

47:45 time for the folks that are here, Can I just ask a quick question? Um, if you don’t mind if there was a, a second town meeting, Sir, I cannot, there’s, this is an agenda item later on. Public comment is closed. We are now on two other parts of the agenda. This does come up in a discussion later on, which may be your question will be answered when we discuss it later on. So please hold your question or you could come talk to us at, at the close of the meeting after the meeting is done. Fine. Um, okay. So, um, let’s go ahead and, uh, hear, uh, the licensing matter of Marblehead Brewing Company and, um, I understand that our applicant is here. Uh, and, um, Tracy Stockton, if you could please come

48:31 to the table and, uh, father Andrew and I believe there’s, I have an architect on Zoom in my notes, One more chair, another, um, And I have all of these. And just madam Chair for point of information, do we need, um, is that, do we need a mo a motion No. To move that just, no, it’s just agreement. Okay. Just wanna make sure We have handouts. Yeah, that’s fine. Sure. Thank you. I’ll say whatever you want. Lovely. Carding gives. Okay. And then just so People, is this an update or, We have a lot of stuff in our packet already too. Is this an update or what is this an updated version? Okay. It’s the, based on our conversation with,

49:18 is this different than, I don’t know what you have. I, I sent an update to Kyle and Dan Fox, by the way. Yeah, nice to meet you. Um, thanks for your comments about it. Really. I think the same page. Do you mind turning on the mic?

49:35 I think that the, um, table, the first page is probably changed, but that’s really about it. The, the first, the first page. I’m gonna, excuse me. We’re running a meeting here and I’m gonna ask members of the public to keep their voices down. If you need to talk, you can go in the hall. Otherwise we have business to attend to. Thank you.

49:56 Okay. So if you could just introduce yourselves for the record, even though I think we know

50:05 You weren’t sure.

50:08 This is what look like

50:13 Question. Have this Good evening. Um, Madam uh, chairwoman and select board. My name is Beth Keeley. Elizabeth Keeley. I’m from the law firm, butters Brazilian. I’m with my client, uh, here. Uh, and so I just wanted to start by introducing myself. I realize you, I may be the person welcome, at least familiar to, to folks in the room, so thank you. Welcome. Thank you for allowing me to, to join my, our client, our clients this evening. Thank you. We’re grateful for, for Butters and Brazilians, uh, assistance. That’s fine. They have a vibrant practice on Nantucket, which I’m sure they’ll be bringing to Marblehead as well. My name is Tracy Stockton. Tracy’s the general Counsel for St. Paul Foundation, and she’s the president. I don’t think they can hear. My name is Father Andrew. I am the, uh, representative of the owner.

50:59 Okay. I’m sorry. Did you have something else? No, I, I think there’s a hearing issue, right? Can you hear okay now? Okay. You wanna spin that microphone? Microphone? Do you, do you not one? No. Okay, I’ll move it if I have question. It’s okay. Sure. Thank you for, So thank you for hearing us today. We appreciate the time, uh, at, it appears this select board does have the materials Mm-Hmm. Uh, that we submitted in advance. Uh, we have an updated presentation for the select board this evening. Um, this issue that’s before the select board is regarding, uh, as you can see, uh, request for an amendment to a current license that we have. Mm-Hmm. And so it, it’s our position. This is a straightforward request for an amendment to, uh,

51:47 to the premises. It’s really an amendment to the, um, to the license for, uh, service of alcoholic beverage at the premises. Uh, nothing more than that. I would suggest at this point there are some specifications that we outline, uh, throughout the, the, um, the, uh, application. We’re happy to walk through those with the board if there’s any questions. But to the extent that this is simply an amendment to an application, excuse me, to a, to the licensure, which has been in effect continues to be in effect and is renewed on an annual basis. We’re simply asking for the, uh, licensure to extend, to allow for the pouring of, um, our, our beverages in the outside area between the two buildings we already have licensed.

52:32 Um, so to that extent, uh, as the, uh, process requires, we’re seeking the licensing authorities approval. That’s why we’re here today. Um, and we’re hoping for that, uh, hoping to walk away with that this evening as we need to be within a a, a certain timeframe. Um, I’ll leave it at that, uh, at this point. And, And Father Andrew, did you wanna step everyone through the, what the plan is? Sure. I has everybody had a chance to review so we know. Um, so, and, and Eric, I think is here virtually our architect is. Yes. Is he Kyle? Is he, uh,

53:12 he’s mute now as well. Yes. I’m here if you can hear me. So, um, if you’re familiar with, I guess the code review, um, what we’re, what we’re asking for is some sensitivity in terms of, uh, the phases of construction. As the buildings get completed, the occupancy increases with the toilet count. Um, we expect that 1 24 Pleasant Street will be completed before the end of the year. Um, one 20 Pleasant Street will take a little longer because just like Abbott Hall, we’ll be installing geothermal. Um, and, uh, so you’ll see a scale architectural illustration of what it, what they will look like when they’re complete. Um, the refactory, it’s noted that the,

54:00 these scale illustrations are not just sort of blue sky illustrations. They’re, they’re two scale, um, hand drawn by an architect as a fellow of the American, uh, architectural Institute. Um, so the icons will be that size. Those are the actual light fixtures which are waiting to be installed. Um, you see the Financial Times article, um, all of the Roses have been either bred specifically for the climate and Marblehead or they, uh, are already there and, um, functioning. So you’ll see, uh, what mass outside will look like, um, standing. And then you’ll see, uh, scale drawing of what a wedding in the garden will look like.

54:43 Then a festival meal after services according to the tradition. And then, um, a LP 1.1

54:55 shows all licensed, so that’s the refactory and the strip of land that used to constitute the driveway for 1.4 Pleasant Street. Um, that’s the first architectural drawing. It’s after the Financial Times article. Oh, it’s just you one page. Yep. There you go. Yep. There you go. Just one more.

55:16 I’ve got a few more to go, I guess. Few, few more. Sorry. That’s the wedding. Um, then, then you have the next one. There you go. There you go. There you go. Oh, actually that’s, yep. Nope, that’s, that’s right. ALP one, one Uhhuh. Mm-Hmm. And so this is the license which already exists. Note the, um, the brewery is also under the license, but that’s not where people would be sitting. Right. That’s just, it’s a part of the A BCC regulations. So then if we look to the next pictures, we see, um, pictures of some of the icons, which have already been produced, uh, music program for, uh, refugees in, uh, Ukraine and the Middle East, um, baptismal icon, then a LP 1.2. Um, so you’ll see this will be the first alteration,

56:02 or, or this is the alteration. Right? So this is the rest of the garden area. So the new area is 5,300 square feet. Hmm. Um, and so that’s what we would expect to inhabit as soon as 1 24 Pleasant Street is complete. And then once one 20 Pleasant Street is, is finished once we receive. Um, so the drilling for geothermal will happen, happen over the winter, but there are supply chain constraints in terms of just getting the air handlers and getting the rest of the, so we expect that one 20 Pleasant Street, which is our, our faith, uh, and Society Center. Our religious educational center should be complete sometime in the middle of next year. Once we, once we complete the upgrades to the, the geothermal, uh, pieces, which we could not order until we had received the transformer, which we did not get until, uh, a couple of months ago.

56:50 So then A LP 1.3, once one 20 Pleasant Street is completed.

57:00 Um, it’s a judgment call as to whether or not the actual toilets are licensed, but they will obviously be there to serve the, the outdoor premises. Um, then if you look at a LP 2.1, the next page you’ll see, um, concentrated seating. So you’ll see 563 seats. Um, in addition to that, obviously, um, people could stand. Then the next page, a LP 2.2, um, we have tables and chairs for events. You’ll see with tables and chairs we’re at 452.

57:41 And then 2.3 would be standing only. Um, noted the, uh, the occupancy there would be 1,273, but that would be then limited by the, um, the fact that there are three egresses. So that limits to a thousand. And then the number of toilet fixtures. Right. Which limits it further. Right. So these, these all work together in harmony to determine what the occupancy is. It’s not just a function of, of the square footage. Right. And then the next page, which is exciting for me, 2.4 is our Christmas market, which we’ll have in December. And so you’ll see, uh, those are stalls. Something like, uh, you would have in Munich or Cologne, you know, a church dedicated to St. Nicholas can’t not have a Christmas

58:26 market around Christmas time. Um, and then some tables there.

58:32 Um, we have, uh, d we have a background of monastic brewing and how it relates to the religious practice.

58:42 Then we have, um, some more pages on, you know, what St. Nicholas is, how everything fits together.

58:52 Those would be the, um, the pages on church letterhead. Mm-Hmm. I encourage you to read at this point. We’d be happy to hear any questions. Thank you so much. I’ll look up to the board for, um, questions and comments.

59:12 Um,

59:16 So the motion before us tonight is predicated on the future plans of the church or Current plans? Current. Yeah. I say future plans, say current. Uh, So as, as soon as we view As to what’s gonna be built. Yes. So, so right now we, we, we have the license and it’s, it’s, um, extended to an exterior area. Um, but because construction has not finished, the license has not been issued. So what we’re asking you to do tonight is to amend the license so that once construction is finished, the license will issue in the correct amount. And this provides certainty to us. It provides certainty to you. It allows everybody to plan. Typically this kind of permitting work would have happened years ago. Um, but we did meet a previous select, I think you were the only member who was, who was there in

1:00:01 that, those 2018 meetings, Moses. And that meeting was adjourned and we couldn’t get another meeting. So, um, so this is, is is here to help. Correct. Uh, part of that past history plus in the intervening years, we were fortunate to be able to purchase a second building. Is there any inspection that goes into the terminate, you know, to determine that the construction is up to code and, and finished, you know, so the license can be issued? Yeah. So the, the building department, the fire department, um, those folks are already engaged on the project. Um, so this would be, this is phase one, so it goes from the 40 to 300. So this would be, the vote would be contingent upon final approval by the inspectors.

1:00:46 It’s contingent on the certificate of occupancy issuance, yeah. Yeah. The certificate of occupant issues and it’s 300 for 1 24 Pleasant Street. And then the certificate of occupancy issues for one 20 Pleasant Street and the additional 600 issues. Got It. Okay. Yeah. So it’s in a conditional, conditional, um, approval of a, of expansion of the license? No, it’s a, it’s a, it’s an approval of a license that only gets issued when the certificate of occupancy is issued. So your approval is not conditional, but the license is conditional. Yeah. I mean, it’s the usual actions of a, of, of a license is these, these other things need to be met, but it it, so the board’s giving the authorization to issue the license when the required conditions. Right, right. Mad chair, can I just ask one question?

1:01:34 Mm-Hmm. Do you have any contingencies plans for parking? Is it just gonna be public parking? I’m just thinking if you have six or 900 people. So we, we note that St. Michael’s Episcopal Church has 858 people and no parking. And, uh, we note that Grace Baptist Church has 663 people and they don’t have any parking. We note that the Unitarian Universalist Society has 317 with no parking. Mm-Hmm. And we note that none of the churches in Marblehead have sufficient parking for their capacity. Okay. There’s a question. Mm-Hmm. What? Yeah. Just, you know, if you had a plan for Offsite, well, there’s a municipal parking lot right. Next to church property. Yep. You know, and, um, Mm-Hmm. I’ve never seen Ike Van Otterloos parking lot full.

1:02:20 I’ve never looked. No. Uh, just to check, just my understanding. And I was looking at, like, to base your numbers and stuff, like everything that’s represented, the numbers and everything are to scale. And then that’s what will end up being approved just for the size and the numbers. And obviously that’s under, you know, the fire department’s wheelhouse and all the, you know, meeting those Requirements, it’s subject to state law. Right. Right. So, so these are, so all of this is according to state law. Yeah. Um, and we’ve, uh, chief you were at the meeting. You, you, you were, you were at the meeting at, on, on the eighth with the building commissioner and No Captain Law. Oh, I’m sorry. I’m sorry. Captain Cap. Sorry, captain. You, you were at the meeting. Yep. Yes. And, and the fire department is in agreement. Yep. Okay. Okay. Um, so I, uh,

1:03:09 will entertain a motion to approve the application from Marblehead Brewing Company, uh, 1 24 Pleasant Street to alter the premises on the Farmer Brewery pouring permit. Section 19 CN number 0 3 7 9 5 dash BP 0 6 5 6 as presented and subject to all taxes and fees to the town being paid, receipt of all applicable departmental approvals, a valid certificate of inspection for 24 25, a certificate of occupancy as appropriate, and compliance with chapter 3 0 4 of the Acts of 2004. So moved. Second. Second. Okay. Um, we have, you wanna do a roll call? Vote Fox. In favor? Mr. Murray? In favor, Ms. Singer? Mr.

1:03:56 Grayer, in favor? Afternoon In favor. Thank You. Thank you very much. Great presentation. Thanks For all the materials. Thank copy You for being patient. I appreciate that. Well, it’s been seven years. You want this back? I have this, do you wanna keep Our enlarged, Um, images? No, no, no. You’re welcome. Past, just,

1:04:20 just for the record, we have no problem. Did you not get, this Church is very much thousand for.

1:04:32 Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Have a good night. I can send it. Thank you. Thanks. Thank you. Thanks for your patience. Thank you very much. Okay. Alright. Thanks sir. Thank care. We’ll see you. Um, next we have an interview, um, for Disabilities Commission, we have Maura Darley. Rocco. Do we have, is Maura here? Yes. Thank you, Maura, if you could just come on up to the table

1:05:02 and, um, we have all read your letter of interest, and so we have that in our, in our packets. Welcome. And welcome. Yeah, welcome. And thank you for stepping forward to, to, um, you know, to serve the town. And, um, does anybody have any specific questions that they’d like to ask? Um, you, you know, if you’d like to just add, if there’s anything you wanna add to your, to your letter or just, um, you know, meeting else for others to else Ella, about yourself. I, I wrote some notes. Oh, that’s great. So, I originally expressed interest in joining the commission last summer. And, um, the vacancy at that time, I, I didn’t have the proper, um, qualifications for that vacancy. So when I learned that this new vacancy was available, I reached out again to, um, Kyle and Lori.

1:05:48 And, um, I did have the right qualifications. So here I am. Um, the strengths I bring to the table are a strong interest in disability rights, compassion, and the belief that we can do better. Um, my interests lie in the improvements in accessibility for existing systems renovations and new construction of public areas and buildings, and improvements in practices and protocol for including the Disabilities Commission in relevant projects. Um, Mr. Keer recently reflectively emphasized that accessibility, compliance with federal and state laws must be a primary consideration from the outset of municipal projects. And I would like to support that in mind, potential role as a member of the Disabilities Commission. Great. Great. Awesome. Any comments?

1:06:36 Yeah, just thank you for volunteering. Thank you for your expertise. And it’s an important subject that always needs a ton of attention and revamping and improvement. So thank you for willing to be here. Wanna Be a part Important. Your background speaks for itself. And thank you for volunteering. Thank you very much. Okay. So, um, I’ll ask for a motion to appoint Maura Darley Rocco to our Disabilities Commission. So moved. Second. All in favor? Great. I think you’ll be a wonderful addition. Thank you so much. Thank you so Much. Thank you for your Patience and coming back. Yes.

1:07:12 Um, Kyle afterwards. Okay. Uh, and now we have, um, does she need To be sworn in? Yes. I think, um, Kyle will follow up with you about swearing in for Yep. No, that’s okay. Please. I think you’ll say much. Yes. Thanks for waiting. Okay. Um, is Chris Butler here? Yes, I’m Oh, hi Chris.

1:07:34 So, yeah, we have your letter of interest and thank you so much for stepping forward and all the work that you’ve already put in. Um, and if you’d just like to tell us a little bit about yourself and, Well, my name is Chris Butler. I’m a lifelong resident of the town of Marblehead. Uh, I was a contractor carpenter. I was a contractor carpenter for 40 years, and then I became a building inspector for the Town of Marblehead for another 12. I have a lot of experience, uh, on the houses and the buildings in town, and, uh, I’ve kind of developed a theory and it’s this, people think they own these houses. They don’t, these houses have been

1:08:20 around for hundreds of years. They’re gonna be around for many hundreds more. Hopefully. We’re mere stewards. And for our brief time on this planet, I think it’s, we owe these buildings to be good stewards to ‘em and to take care of ‘em. And that’s what I’ve tried to do my whole life. And now that I’m retired, I’d like to, uh, continue that effort in the historical Commission. Great. That’s it. Thank you so Much. You’re welcome. That’s, that’s Enough. That’s, that’s plenty. I like it. Thank You. It’s like the most beautiful explanation for the historical commission. Thank you. Wow. It took 50 years to develop, but Yes, I, that’s what I come up with. Yes. I love it. It’s very moving.

1:09:06 And I think it would be great to have a butler back on the historical commission, because I remember your father was on there for many years. I don’t mean to correct you, sir, but Wayne was my brother. Your brother is your brother Or your brother? Wayne is 21, or was 21 years older than me. Okay. Many people mistaken from my father. Your brother. He said, well, pardon me, you know, but your brother was on and he was always a gentleman because every time we, he would, I would come in here with my sons, so he’d pull out that postcard, he’d say, that boat I built Yep. You on, on the dock. That’s right. So, uh, Yeah, over 2000 of them in the course of 40 years, my family built quite proud of that too. Nice. Yeah. No, your brother was an amazing, so I’m happy he was, could succeed him and, uh, and be on that. Well, I hope he’s smiling now.

1:09:52 Yes. And, um, you’ve served in other roles in the past, volunteering in town too, so I know you’ll, I have take to it right away. You’ve been on the old Burial Hill oversight. You were served, you were the Marble Head of Arts Association, you were a member of the OHDC. So, um, thank you for filling another role that’s needed And I know where to swear in at. Uh, yes. Well, let’s vote you in first. Sounds good. Um, could I have a motion to appoint Chris Butler to the, um, historical commission? Second. All in favor. Great. Welcome. Thank You. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Thank you very much.

1:10:36 Okay. And, um, now we have a couple, uh, of applicants interested in Harbors and Waters board. And, um, I know one is online. Karen, uh, CIO is online. Um, is, and is Steve Wolf here? Oh, great. Steve, if you wanted to come to the table and, um,

1:11:00 introduce yourself. Great. We, again, we’ve senior, a couple of interests, letters Of interest. Thank you. Yeah, I’m a strong believer in the importance of giving back to your community. Um, and this is probably an area where I think I have the most to offer based on both my education and my work experience. It really aligns well with the Harbor and Waters Board. I’ve got here, um, three years of notes. So I’ve been a, a regular attendee as an observer, um, going back three years, and particularly in the last two years, only missed a handful of meetings. So I’ve got a good understanding of sort of the workings of the board, sort of what’s on their plate. Having looked at the Harbor plan, which came out recently,

1:11:46 I know there is a lot on their plate. And so I’d like to, you know, volunteer to be able to offer some services, not only just in terms of approving things, but I think it’s at a point where board members actually need to roll up their sleeves and, and help out with some of the work there. Um, the other piece that I would note that’s probably not in my resume is that current job. In my previous one, um, at EPA and at the Corps of Engineers, both were taken over a program, programs that had a lot of sort of moving parts, um, issuing RFPs, contracts, things like that. Um, but probably more relevant is that, um, I took over for folks who had re recently retired. Um, so I didn’t overlap with them

1:12:32 and they did not leave sort of a, a strong written record. So I see the importance of being coming into a, a board and whatnot to be able to try to draw that together because I, I, again, having, um, sat observed on this board for quite a while, you know, I know there’s a lot that is sort of passed on and in folks’ heads, and I think it’s time to try to memorialize that as much as possible, uh, for the next generation. Great. Thank you. Um, anybody wanna ask a question, Dan? Yeah. Thank you for, for coming. Um, I’ve seen you at a few of those boards, so thank you for attending as well. What do you see as the most important part of that board or the, uh, the biggest priority and, and the near future?

1:13:20 So, again, a lot of the folks on the board look like me in terms of sort of where they are. And I think the, the most, there, there are lots of coals in the fire in terms of the resilience work, you know, obtaining funding for the seawall work that we have, sort of the long list of things in the Harbor plan that have to take place. But I think in terms of being able to be functional going into the future, is that the, um, responsibilities of that board need to be consolidated, memorialized, and, and, you know, in such a way that it’s easy to pass them on. And so I, I think they’ve done a good job at handling a fairly large budget and having a staff in our harbor works reasonably well. Um, but to be able to have that continue, I think, um, a lot

1:14:07 of these folks are probably ending the, you know, coming to the end of their tenures there. And so it’s important to, to pull all of that, um, information, organize it, put it together for, for the next, next round here.

1:14:22 Go ahead, chair. May, uh, if you were to advise the, the chair of the Harbors committee on what kind of strengthening would be needed at the board, how would you characterize the skillset or the, or the position? So when I look at the projects that are out there, you know, first and foremost it’s an enterprise fund. So there’s a clear need for understanding finances, you know, working with an, they, they issue RFPs, they manage contracts. So, so that’s just on the functionality component of it. But then there are a number of things that draw on engineering and sort of marine background that either we hire consultants to do, which again, comes out of a, that enterprise fund budget. Or ideally, you get the diversity in the board

1:15:09 where now you can begin to advise on some of that in-house. Got it. Thank you. Thank you. Um, I was just gonna ask about, uh, your understanding of the enterprise fund. I mean, you just mentioned it, so I think you kind of answered my question is if there’s anything you’d like to add about your, you know, just your knowledge of around how harbors and waters self, uh, funds itself and the budget process. Yeah. I’ve seen now, you know, three cycles of it and, you know, again, noting that, um, there’s the annual budget, there’s hiring of very competent staff, which is of key importance, but there’s also a lot of capital equipment that it has to be planned for, sort of in a long term, you know, forecast. And, and again, I think the board has done a, a good job at that.

1:15:55 But, you know, with climate change, um, and with the aging of a lot of our infrastructure, then, you know, there are sort of new pressures on that going forward. So I think it’s important probably for some folks to have some strength in the finance as well as, um, looking hard at some of the engineering recommendations in the latest plan, um, to be able to carry that forward. Great. Thank you. Anybody else? Any questions? Yeah, I would just say, first of all, like, I think you’ve gone above and beyond to like, prepare yourself, educate you. I’ve seen you at the meetings as well, so I just commend you for taking your personal volunteer time to just educate yourself about something you love. That’s super important. And I think, um, you know, my questions were just in regards to identifying what the needs, the challenges, which you spoke to,

1:16:42 and which I also appreciated. You also spoke to how you think your strengths would be able to help fill those roles and meet those challenges. So, great. Thanks. I really appreciate all the work that you’ve done to educate yourself and be a part of, you know, trying to move us forward. So thank You. Thank you. Well, again, I know it’s, I feel it’s really important for folks to, to get involved where they can, rather than be one of those that says, this is something they should do, it’s like, kind of what can we do? And I see a lot of those strengths in town here, and it’s, you know, taking that opportunity to be able to, um, to actually contribute something. Thank you, sir. Thank you so much. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Awesome. Appreciate your time. Alright, thanks. Hi, Karen. Karen unmuted.

1:17:32 Yeah, hi. Uh, sorry I couldn’t be there in person, unfortunately, uh, ramping for the work travel season, I work in a higher ed, so my, uh, commitments pulled me away from the access of AB Hall. So I appreciate your time and willingness, uh, for me to join remotely. Great. Thank you so much. Um, uh, is there anything you wanted to, like, a couple quick remarks you wanted to say again, like, we, we do have your letter, but I always like to allow you that opportunity if there’s anything you wanna emphasize. Sure. Um, um, as I mentioned in my letter, I’m a lifelong marble header. I was on the water before I could do much of anything. I was on the water at three weeks old, uh, due to my dad, who was, uh, an avid, uh, sailor

1:18:19 and marblehead harbors and waters. Uh, if you talk with any of my friends and, and my colleagues, it runs through my veins. I am so passionate about the opportunity to live here, grow up here, have access to the opportunities that Marblehead Waters provided me as a, not only as a child, but to this current day. Um, I, I do think that the harbors and waters, is that an, an important inflection point. I think you are, uh, much to comments made prior that there is a generational turn at this point, and there is very, very important institutional knowledge and historical knowledge that needs to be maintained. But we also have to look forward, um, certainly,

1:19:06 um, you know, understanding the historical component that, that Marblehead waters plays. Also the, the barriers that have been talked about in, in the, um, a harbors and waters plan, uh, particularly accessibility and people without, with without mooring access or without water access. I mean, this is a huge resource for our town and can, uh, potentially bring additional revenue, but it’s gotta have a creative thought and some fresh thinking. If you, if you look at how businesses have laid out, look at the iterations that have come outta Marblehead Harbor from Sterling Burgess and, and Marine, Navy, and, and seaplanes to Ted Hood, to, to now, where can we go? And Marblehead has always been a leader in that, and I think we can are, are at an important point right now

1:19:54 where we can lead that. Uh, from my experience, I professionally have led a lot of RFPs, uh, pre predominantly in the higher ed and nonprofit space. Uh, I work within higher education in different roles. Um, I’m a recent, uh, business school graduate. Um, fortunately the finance piece, um, is very fresh in my mind and understanding, um, certainly, uh, opportunities, but also the forecasting. Uh, currently I’m a member at Corinthian and we are working on a master plan. We have a subcommittee that’s working on our master site plan, uh, after some recent re uh, real estate acquisitions that is really looking at a 10 year dynamic master CapEx

1:20:41 plan to manage all the assets that are in, you know, millions of dollars of assets and how to be financially responsible and fiscally responsible to the members, to our our other stakeholders, to the town and to the neighbors and the residents, and certainly, um, the future generations who can have the access. So understanding the collaborative efforts that need to happen across multiple committees, um, in the club has been really instrumental. A again, tying in that historical knowledge, um, I think with Marblehead as well, the cap, uh, cap expense, sorry, cap X expense is, is going to be particular, uh,

1:21:28 importance due to certainly the climate impact that’s happening. And where, uh, our potential revenue streams that have not been identified or how to tap, uh, other potential funding that is there that, um, we should lean into. Uh, selfishly, um, I, oh, sorry. Selfishly I give back and I give, I’ve given back a lot of time with Alzheimer’s. Um, sadly, uh, my mom has passed, but now it’s time to give back to the space that’s given me so much. Thank you, Karen. I think we have, um, just a few questions for you.

1:22:07 Good evening. Um, thank you for applying for this. Um, it appears to me that your strengths here, beyond being a sailor and growing up here would be a financial, um, I think that that’s an important part of the enterprise fund. So I guess my question for you is, are you interested in spending, you know, a, a fair amount of time working on that enterprise fund? I think a lot of people forget that, you know, we do need that finance background as well to have a, a well-rounded committee or board. So do you have interest in, in working on that side of it as well? Yeah, uh, absolutely. It’s a, a side that, um, I am, I’m big in transparency and, and the first thing, the irony is, is the first thing

1:22:52 that I looked at was what’s the annual budget? Where’s the public, uh, public information and how to make some of it a bit more transparent. Um, but certainly as I was doing some prep work, uh, I was remiss not to be able to readily find some of that financial information.

1:23:12 And do you have, I don’t need specifics actually for this, but do you have, uh, ideas or thoughts on how we can better manage that money or increase any revenues? Yeah, I think right now we’ve had, um, in reading the the Harbor plan, I think there’s some untapped revenue opportunity. Granted, uh, there’s some environmental seawall issues that need to happen. I do think that, um, looking at certain financial areas of growth in terms of what, what can be better leveraged, it’s a little bit difficult without being able to really dive in to the p and l and understand those line items. Um, definitely, uh, looking at future forecasting, um,

1:23:58 is going to be important on the enterprise fund. Um, but really, uh, the first, and part of the reason why I was looking for the financials was I actually wanted to take a look to see if there was a, a kind of easily identifiable gap analysis on where is there untapped, uh, untapped opportunity in those fi in the current financial landscape. Great, thank you. So if that helps, it does. Um, I, I know that there’s opportunity, um, it’s a little bit tough without having the, without the ability to see those numbers readily. But, um, I would imagine that there are other places that we can lean in. And the nice part is, is I do, um, live in, in a, in a tech space as well. So are there cost efficient, cost effective, uh, tools

1:24:47 that are being under-leveraged that can also bring in additional revenue, um, without huge cost.

1:24:55 Alright, Karen, thank you very much for volunteering. I, I’m gonna ask a question that I asked the, uh, the, the prior, uh, interviewee and in addition to your old, I think you’ve answered a bit, a large part of the, of the question I’m about to ask, but what skillset would you identify on the board that would, uh, you know, that you would recommend to the chair? Uh, in thinking about the composition of the board?

1:25:18 Um, again, I, I think that we’re at a time where there are some really important generational components. I also think that there’s usage components. I think the usage of the harbor has been very different, um, but also, uh, the skillsets. So I do think that there has to be, in this day and age, someone with strong technology skills and strong financial skills. Where we’re blessed there is, uh, the current chair, Gary Gregory, is very, very strong in, in both of those spaces. Um, but I do think that, um, those are areas where as you start to grow and build out a team, uh, you wanna make sure that that team is, is a relevant, uh, sample ideally of

1:26:04 usage of voices so that you have proper representation around the table. That’s great. Thank you. Um, I, I believe you’ve answered my question. It was just around your familiarity with the Enterprise fund and, um, if you have any personal experience, uh, with RFPs, um, and, and bid processes.

1:26:27 Uh, absolutely RFPs, um, in fact, uh, most recently, um, working collaboratively, I sit on long range planning at Corinth Yacht Club, and we are in the process of working through an RFP right now, uh, for, uh, a master site plan for the entire square footage, um, in light of those recent acquisitions, um, so that, that can facilitate us forward. Thanks, Karen. Anything else? Nope. If anybody has a question, just, um, Yeah, I mean, I think you properly identified what you thought the challenges and the goals were. That was my, um, question from Mr. Wolf in regards to that. And also, uh, you know, I thought it was important that you noted to understand the current environment, but also bringing in the future forecasting.

1:27:12 And I think that’s a big thing that we’re looking at holistically with the harbor as things, uh, might be changing rapidly and what, you know, how are we managing that as a town? How are we planning for that? Are we looking for the budget impacts on that? And trying to stay on top of that for the, you know, for all the considerations that we have to come into when we’re looking at the budget. So, um, let’s see. I think that was it for my notes for Karen. All right. Thanks Karen. Um, Thank you. And thank you again for your time and consideration. Yeah, thanks for being here this evening. Thank You. Okay. So, um, and with regard to these interviews and reappointments, uh, um, how, how would folks like to proceed with, we have some reappointments, we have some new interest.

1:27:59 Um, just wanted to take suggestions on the board on, uh, how we would like to, um, move forward with the decisions around this appointments. Okay. I No, Go, go ahead. I, I mean, I just, I mean, we can talk about this as discussion. I mean, one thought was how we handled, um, when, since we have a large group and we’re trying to look at balancing, you know, all the qualifications of everybody who’s on the board and the alternates, you know, um, when we did the charter study, like taking, you know, taking all of the Yes. Um, taking all the applicants and doing, um, an assessment in that way where then, you know, we’re landing on the, you know, on the numbers for the how we wanna constitute the board

1:28:45 as we’re looking at Reappointments, just an idea of like, obviously as we’re thinking about how do we make the decisions of how we’re going to point, each Member had, um, picked their, as you remember, each member had identified their preferences and then through Thatcher, um, yeah. Just be, had gone with the top, whatever it was, 13, I think it was. That’s just an idea. I don’t know what everybody else thinks, but, Um, I would just, I think for, for this evening, right, there’s one opening that we’re going to vote on. Is that right? Or what is the No, because I think we, um, also have reappointments, I think, um, Okay. So this is these two names that are coming forward Yes. Yeah. Are interested.

1:29:31 And at earlier meetings when we discussed about, um, you know, maybe adding some new people to this Yes. Committee. Okay. Um, and Okay. I think, um, maybe we could also check in with the chair. Yeah. I mean, what, I guess what I would propose, uh, I presumably, are we taking a a, a vote tonight to a point? Um, I don’t have it on for a vote. I had it on, that’s so that we could process it, letters of interest and hear from these interested candidates. I think that’s, that we could move forward in a I That’s great. That’s some type of a, Okay. Okay. I just want, I just want clarification on that. Mm-Hmm. Thank you, Madam Chair. So my, I think what I would recommend is that we really, uh, sit down with the chair and understand, uh, you know, his thought process in terms

1:30:18 of, you know, how this might potentially, uh, you know, how our interest and, and how the interest tonight has been expressed can be, can be deployed into, into the board. So I think we ought to do it with the cooperation and, and consent of the, of the chair, uh, respecting his, his prerogative over his, his particular board. So that’s what I would recommend. Okay. And I think we’ve, you know, I think we’ve gone a little, if we’ve gone a way, way, you and I have reached out to him, we’ve gone a way so we can Follow back with that. Yeah, I think So. So are you suggesting at the next meeting or at separately, which would mean only one or two of you would be able to do that? That’s, that’s right. Well, um, so I would think separately, Yeah. And then, you know, prepare for, for deliberation, whether,

1:31:03 you know, whether Gary comes before the board or not. I think we could, we can probably determine that. Okay. Chair, what do you think? Um, so yeah, I think that, I think it’s important to get, um, his thoughts and feedback about what the needs are on the board. Um, I have spoken to him about it. I think we should just follow up with it. Mm-Hmm. Now that we have a little more in, in information about other applicants. Um, and Dan, did you wanna, I guess I wasn’t here when you guys did the charter, so for clarification, we will do our votes one through seven. I’m assuming we have right? Five Yes. Uh, members and two alternates. It’s eight. Yeah. But yeah, Five and three. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Um, so we’ll do that at the next meeting you’re saying, or in between now and then I Would, um, I think that we could do it so that we,

1:31:52 if we were to do the rank choice, what we would do is before the next meeting, um, provide the, the, um, our individual choices to that judge. And then at that meeting, you could let us know, like you, we could, Well, I think I, based what I’m hearing, so you’re looking for input from the chair, which, unless that’s in, uh, another scheduled meeting, it would be a, and as we, we learn through the charter process, if a member volunteers to take on a task that is not a subcommittee Mm-Hmm. They can, let’s say in this case, do the interview and report back to the full board the results. Mm-Hmm. But the report back would be at the next meeting. And so if you’re already voting and making decisions, right.

1:32:41 Preparation, you’re, So we should do, we should vote it at the next meeting then. Okay. And hear from, would you, um, we should reach out to Gary and, and report back to us at the next meeting while we, before we, um, make our, we individually can, um, make our, uh, positions known. Definitely. Well, I’ll coordinate that with you, uh, Madam Chair. Okay. I’ll, I’ll talk to talk to Gary. Okay. Is everybody okay with that? Okay. Yeah. So, sounds perfect. Plan. At the next meeting, we will, um, onboard the Harbors and Waters board by a, um, a ranked voting system like we had done at the charter. Okay. Okay. So, um, next we have the Board of Assessor

1:33:28 as a request for the Reserve Fund transfers. And, um, oh, okay. Alicia, are you here to speak on this? I am. This, I don’t know John’s online or anything, but John’s outta town this evening and Jonathan’s outta state. I just had him on the agenda, so I didn’t wanna him if he was, so, okay. So this came before the finance committee at their last meeting on the 19th. And when it first came, your honor roll body, you asked some questions. I hadn’t reviewed it, I didn’t get to work with them. Well, I did get to work with them, and I have spoken with them, and they were able to get down from the original over $60,000 down to $45,000 for the work to have Catalyst come in, review and correct the evaluations and tables for the assessor’s office.

1:34:14 Um, I told them, I, I told the fin com, I support this, I recommend it, uh, after working in tandem with Jonathan for a couple of hours, and I also spoke with John Kelly to help fix the problems that we identified in the original assessor’s report due to the valuations and to spearheaded ahead of time before our revalue year next year. Great. And much more reasonable cost. Um, does anybody have any questions or comments for Alicia? Could you get into a little more detail around the, the use of funds in this case? I, I, I miss the Yes. The prior briefing. Yes. So what they were going to do is, uh, I did the procurement for the board, and they’re gonna go with Catalyst, catalyst and Patriot work together, and they’re gonna have to use the Assess Pro Collect Pro software, which Patriot has got it.

1:35:01 Um, and Callis is gonna go in and look at all the tables and all the data that was changed. This is for the valuation Piece. This is for the valuation piece, and make sure that those tables are correct, that valuations look correct, and they’re spearheading it ahead of time before next year. Okay. Great. Thank you. And my question was just that, uh, what, where did we land with the competitive bid process? Okay, so for this, it’s not, uh, a competitive bid. So what I did is I sent out a request for quotes from the different, three different, uh, organizations actually submitted it to four. But because of the system that we use, which is Collect Process, spro, which is Patriot Software, they did not want to come in to do the job. Okay. So we did solicit interests from other companies. They did, and I understand why, you know, it would make sense for this consultant

1:35:48 or, um, vendor to come on board. So if I can clarify, because you said we didn’t do a competitive process because the price went down below the 50,000. Oh, right. We Didn’t have to do full, it’s under 50 full, um, advertising process. It allowed below that threshold allow us to just seek Yep. Uh, three quote quotes. Okay. Which, which has been done. And then I have copies from those vendors that said, if you were using a different software, we would’ve solicited a quote. But because it’s Patriot software, they did not want to. Yeah. Great. Great. Well, thank you so much for working with them. Just more question address this. Yes. So we still, this, this money will be spent this year Yes. And they won’t need it on the budget for next year to do this Next year. They’re still gonna need to do some reevaluation work. Right now what they’re doing is when the, when they came in

1:36:36 and they had the consultant come in and look, as we are aware, the assessor, uh, misvalued and changed data in the database. So they literally have to go back into the software, go into those tables, correct those tables, test those tables, make sure everything is calculating properly, properly with the valuations. And still, next year, they’re still gonna have to get ready and vamped, because it’s a reval year. So they’re still gonna have a lot of work to do to get things certified for the state. So, We’ll this offset some of that cost towards the reval, this will offset as Yes, It will offset some of it for this year. Right. But I mean, next year we won’t have to spend the 72 or whatever this should be offset versus Correct. What would’ve been spent next year, right? Correct. They’re breaking the, they’re breaking next year’s project into parts. Okay. Correct. Starting the correction of the tables this year because it’s, it is a lot of work to, to do the tables

1:37:23 and then that sets ‘em up to be able to actually do the rest of the rebound. So it, it is splitting it up.

1:37:31 Okay. Great. Thank you so much. Thank you. Um, I need a, um, motion to approve, uh, or sorry to authorize John Kelly, the board of assessors to appear be Well, he’s already, okay. So are we voting to approve the reserve fund ourselves or did FinCon vote? FinCon voted, but I told them it still needed to be voted by your Body. Okay. Okay. So, um, I need a motion to approve the request from, uh, John Kelly, board of the assessors to transfer of the sum of $45,000 from the Reserve Fund in accordance with Chapter 40, section six of the Massachusetts General Laws. Some, Do I have a second? Second. All in favor? Okay.

1:38:21 Okay. And that brings us to our consent agenda items. Um, these include the minutes of August 14th, 2024. Uh, the, um, the two 50 committees request to use, uh, old townhouse in Abbott Hall, September 21st and 22nd, a one day liquor license for Abbott Hall and Abbott Library, uh, surplus equipment. Um, does anybody wanna pull any of those out for discussion? Okay. Then, um, could I please have a motion to approve the items in the consent agenda? So moved. Second. All in favor? Great. Okay. And that brings us now to our, um, the MBTA Community Act discussion. And, um, I just wanted, thought we would open it up, um,

1:39:10 for the board to decide or have a discussion about thoughts on what to do with, um, our compliance lapsing in the end of December. How do we wanna proceed, um, et cetera. So open discussion and, um, allow people to have, uh, us to hear each other’s thoughts. Madam Chair? Yes. I’d just like to address, uh, is it Mr. Reed? Yes, thank you, sir. Just you, you don’t need to stand, it’s all right. But you’re welcome to, I’m not gonna, you, you’re welcome to stand if you want my legs, then, then you, you can walk around, do some stretches is fine. Absolutely. Um, while I was campaigning for select board, I was approached by some people asking similar questions that, uh, being a real estate agent owning my own company,

1:39:57 how could I support something that I might profit from? And my, and my answer was always that I, I wouldn’t, and it has come up. Um, I have spoken in favor of it, which, which is, is pretty clear. I’ve been in conversations with Ethics Commission since before I was elected, which maybe was a little presumptuous. Um, but luckily that that wasn’t a waste of time. It is my plan not to abstain, but to go, uh, to take the next step that, um, I will be filing a disclosure under the appropriate chapters of law, stating that I will not, my, my firm nor anyone who works for me will ever sell, rent or participate in any real estate in any of those three zones. So that’s, it was not necessarily recommended that I had to do that. I feel that if I am going to advocate for something like

1:40:42 that, that could be perceived morally and equity, I wouldn’t do it. But if it could be perceived that way, I will be filing the disclosure. And that, and, and that’s just wanted to say that nobody In your company will participate in selling any of that real estate, Correct? Yep. Yep. I’m happy with that. Yeah. So I just, I would, I would like, so it doesn’t look that way. I’ll Also ask, uh, the board about Jack. I don’t think that we can’t speak for Jack right now. I’m only speaking for myself. I know, but, so, but we can, that’s, that’s a different discussion, but I can only speak for myself. So that will be filed. I have been, we’re trying to, making the final steps, but I just wanted to say that out loud, so thank you. The board. So, I’m sorry, what? We Won’t be able hear.

1:41:28 This is a board discussion. We’re not discussion, Not doing. I can, I, I’m happy to speak to you after. Okay. So You want, just ‘cause of public, you’re Filing a disclosure. I will be filing disclosure with the take away from that, with the clerk stating that. Yep. Okay. And, um, others thoughts?

1:41:46 Well, I do have any updates, information on, um, the grant programs, anything like that. I don’t know. I do point Logan wants to Yeah. A point of information from Logan, Or you, This was the board discussion. Well, She works for, she asked, she of course, for the town a Question And happens to be the chief financial officer of this town too. So that’s, so, um, as far as grants, I did notice the comment about the Freedom of Information Act requests, which were focused primarily on those categories that are listed. What was not in that Freedom of Information request was the DISCUSSIONARY grants that the state took away from Milton that I also presented during town meeting. None of those were requested during those, uh, FOIA requests, and therefore that’s why they said zero.

1:42:33 So my understanding is that now, in talking to our state rep, and I, I believe I’ve heard like through, um, staff, is that now when you’re applying for grants, like there’s always requirements for grant applications. And, and now it says, um, three a compliance as a requirement to apply for a lot of grants. Um, outside of those that are listed, as we’ve all known, the governor’s been very open about the administration enforcing, um, compliance around discretionary grants as well. So, so a lot of the grants we applied for, so a lot of the grants that were originally listed that were, would be ineligible by not being in compliance

1:43:23 are grants that Marblehead hasn’t even qualified for in the past. So, so that, that was the early list. Uh, the state has expanded it to include discretionary grants that, as you’ve mentioned. So what happens, these are competitive grants, which means there are more cities and towns applying for particular grant programs than they have money to fund. So it is a competitive scoring process that that different agencies use. So what they are implementing is in these discretionary grants that if you’re not compliant with this law, you don’t get the points that the other communities who are compliant. So what happens is, um, any town noncompliance starts falling down below, below the,

1:44:10 the threshold of getting these grants, uh, on, on these type of programs. And we do, we, we actually do a lot of them. I think we somewhere in the five, $6 million over the last four or five years, um, that we do in grants. And we’re actually, uh, trying to pick up our game in Marble Head of, of more actively seeking competitive grants. And I think the example was the Harbor Implementation project, which is a number of sea walls, um, that need to be improved, um, in the next 10, you know, as sea levels rise, otherwise we’re gonna lose sections of Marblehead. Um, and so we are absolutely in the game of trying to seek

1:44:58 as many dollars from outside sources before we have to use Marblehead tax dollars. Um, the more tax dollars we use, uh, the Marblehead dollars towards the seawall is less dollars for all the other programs that we have. So, um, we’re, we’re hiring, we’re, we’ve created the planning community development department. We’re, we’re staffing it. Um, and a main focus of their mission is to go out and bring in the dollars external dollars to Marvel Head four Marvel head programs and improvements. Um, we’ve gone from one person doing five jobs in that effort to having a, a, a whole department

1:45:43 and a number of staff each individually and working collaboratively to go out and, and seek more dollars. So, um, this is important. This is critical for marblehead sustainability financially, um, to, to stay in the game.

1:46:02 Okay. Um, mad chair. Yes. If I can speak, um, you know, I accept the outcome of the, of the town vote. You know, I just do. It’s, it is, uh, part of the democratic process and the outcome was not, uh, you know, as we had hoped, you know, I thought that the planning board did a very thoughtful and careful, I think all the information needed to vote in favor of this, I think was present. It still went down. You know, I’m hoping that we get new information regarding the Supreme, uh, you know, judicial court on this so that there can be an opportunity to re-approach this. I’ve said before that I’m ex, you know, I’m very practically parochial on this.

1:46:49 I think we are endangering a lot of money, but having said that, I think the state has approached us with more stick than carrot, and I can understand why people are a little, you know, a little bit ticked off in town. But having said that, uh, I think we ought to take seriously, you know, the, the problem of, of money in the future. So I would like to see if there’s new information that we can then perhaps approach the, the groups that are, you know, very opposed to this, and basically convince them that we might be, you know, practically parochial about this and vote in our financial interests. So that’s where I’m hoping we can compromise on this. Um, but I have to say that the, that the town vote is,

1:47:37 is an outcome that we have to, uh, have to respect. So,

1:47:50 Can I ask what more information that you would be looking for? Uh, Well, I’d be, I’d like to know whether the state can exercise, you know, pretty extreme prejudice in terms of punishing us based on the Milton ruling. I don’t know whether new information is coming in that can kind of give us an indication of that or not. You know, in some ways I’m hoping that the state cannot penalize the town of Marblehead and we’ll, you know, go ahead and, and, and take a reconsidered vote anyway, you know, so that we can bring some unity around this. I think the plan is just outstanding. I mean, it’s really, as far as the impact, if you’re gonna have to, you know, absorb a mandate, this plan does it very, very well. So I’m just hoping that there’s gonna be some, some, uh,

1:48:37 some room for compromise. Okay. Um, Go ahead. So I guess I’m, so you, I guess I’m a little confused. Mm-Hmm. Are you suggesting that we wait for the SJC two rule? I’m telling you that, so that’s what I would Prefer. So you would see you as A member of the board? Yeah. Okay. I, I’d like to see that. And then potentially, Even if it’s after December 31st. Well, that’s a good question. ‘cause I think that we have to assume based on the timing from the courts, that it’s gonna be after December 31st. Is that, is that for sure, based on, Yeah. I think we have to make that assumption proceed start in October. Yeah. And so it’s a question of how long that’s gonna play out and when, when the decision will be made. Mm-Hmm. Okay. So also the issue, just to be clear, and I do the bulk of my practice is appellate work.

1:49:25 Um, as many of you know, just to be clear that the issue in front of the SJC regarding the Milton case is if you, so the Attorney general, uh, sued Milton for specific enforcement, basically like, like to hold them accountable. And the town of Milton’s response is that basically you can find you, we, we get to say, no, thank you to the grants, but you can’t, that’s the extent of your enforcement mechanism. So, um, you can’t just come in and create, make us vote an overlay because you’ve already said you’re gonna deprive us of these funds, which they have the right to do,

1:50:11 deprive them of the funds. The issue is whether or not it’s enforceable, they, it’s enfor like they can enforce them to do it. So Milton, in their response, understands that they’re waiving those grant rights. So I think some people, there’s a confusion around whether or not the state can tie funding to request like that, that’s not the issue before Milton, the Milton cases, whether or not the attorney general can compel enforcement regardless of the fi, the, the penalty and the, the financial consequences. So it’s Okay. Does that make sense? Mm-Hmm. Is that a distinction without a, without a difference or, Um, no, uh, because that’s a conscious choice that the town of Milton would make.

1:50:58 You know, we choose not to comply and we’re willing to forego all of the funds. It’s not, you can’t do this, but they, but we, if we wanna forego the funds, that’s our right, that’s our choice. And Attorney General, you can’t put an overlay on here if that’s the choice we’re making. Right. So it just needs to be like that. I think my understanding, like what I took away was from town meeting, was that there wasn’t a lot of understanding about what the consequences would be. It wasn’t so much, so much, like if we’re looking for the Supreme Judicial Court to say whether or not the state can pass section three A, that’s not what it’s about. It’s about whether or not they can compel the town of Milton

1:51:46 to do it regardless of foregoing their funds. Gotcha. And if I, and I’ve done this before, clarify, the town of Milton town meeting in Milton passed the three A zoning, and they had their deadline to be compliant was a year earlier than ours because they were directly served in BTA community. So their deadline was December 31st last year. Right, right. So they were already in viol in violation. So the town meeting, so the town of Milton passed it after the deadline passed there, uh, in Milton, they have a provision in their charter that allows a citizen petition to put on the ballot to repeal an action of town meeting. Mm-Hmm. So it was, it was a citizens group that organized,

1:52:35 put it on the ballot, voted and when, and successfully repealed the action of town meeting. Mm-Hmm. And therefore immediately became noncompliant because their deadline had passed. So when we talk about different situation, the town of Milton different situation, the town itself, the, the, the legislative body had passed it. Mm-Hmm. Um, and then it was a separate process that then repealed it. Yeah. Yeah. Because I think there was, I heard a lot of conversation at town meeting around just the general constitutionality of it and some, you know, separation of powers issue. I, I think that there’s a lot of questions about whether or not three A was constitutional, what Milton’s position is saying, we are actively choosing

1:53:22 to forego those funds. So that’s our choice, and that’s the end of it.

1:53:29 So I, I guess I’m asking do we think that the, like, is that, was that the consensus and was that understood enough? And well, do we feel like the process, that town meeting allowed for that, um, consideration by the residents? And I personally have spoken to a number of people who weren’t able to attend the second night of town meeting. Um, and also kind of just assumed that it would pass, but, um, oh wow. So I, and I did hear a lot of calls for us to wait so we could get more information, see what other towns had passed. So we know all of the towns that have passed it now. Um, and the, my like thoughts are that the impact to taxpayers is gonna be

1:54:16 so significant that if we don’t really allow, make sure that residents are making a conscious, informed decision about what they’re saying yes or no to. Um, no, I just feel like that fiduciary responsibility to better explain the impact to the taxpayers so that they can make, um, make that decision.

1:54:39 Madam Chair. Mm-Hmm. Just like to, I was not on the board at the time. Um, I came in knowing a fair amount about it into town meeting, and I gotta, I gotta be honest, I got confused between all the amendments, the different things that were being said. I do believe that not everybody understood what they were voting on. I also do believe, uh, contrary to some people in the audience here, that there was some misinformation out there, specifically an anonymous, uh, postcard that went out. I talked to a lot of people in, in different areas who don’t completely understand what we were voting on. Um, I think that there was an assumption that this was gonna pass. I think that we did that the town did not do a great job explaining it. Um, and, and I’m actually, I don’t wanna blame the town. I think that the, that the, there was a lot

1:55:25 of different information out there that contradicted each other. I think we, what we’re doing here is of a zoning bylaw that we are voting on. That. Something that’s interesting to me, I think recently is, uh, that the state passed an A DU, um, law that requires towns, and lemme repeat that requires them, regardless of whether you approve or not to allow Aus, it actually overrides our current bylaws. So right now I say that it has to be owner occupied. Now anybody here can do, it doesn’t have to be owner occupied. It’s 900 square feet, but I won’t bore you. So in some ways the state’s giving us, I look at this as the state is giving us our autonomy to choose where these go. They’re not telling you it has to go in old town. It doesn’t have to be throughout the town.

1:56:11 So, you know, you don’t hear people, maybe the state should have done it differently, but you don’t hear their, we have the choice to forego these guys. We have the choice. Right. So I, I see, to me, I think there should be more outcry about the state putting their, putting their thumbs down on us and telling us about the A DU mm-Hmm. Here we have a choice. I think the planning board and, and all the citizens here did a great job coming up with a great plan. I believe that we need to present to the town the yays and Nas, this is the facts. This is what can go in the land. This is not about affordability. Someone pointed out if we wanted affordability, we could build 90 units. I think some of those numbers are being thrown around as well. I think we just need some plain facts simplified so that people can make a decision.

1:56:56 And yes, again, they can make a decision. Again, there’s a lot of things in this town that we’ve gone through. I think that’s part of democracy. I think Glover School took two votes. We wouldn’t have a new Glover school if we didn’t go back into a second vote. We’ve had back to back override request, we’ve back to back override votes. I don’t believe that’s, I believe democracy is been able to do it again as well. Well, sure. Otherwise, I mean, you make one decision, you can’t make another decision. I, I personally disagree with that. I also believe that when we do it, the town can speak again. If people are against it, then the town can speak again. And at that point we have to sharpen our pens and maybe we have to, to go for, for more funding. Mm-Hmm. And I think, but to someone else’s point, I don’t think that we knew exactly the money at the time that we, that we were, were looking for. We had a huge range on the bridge on Village Street.

1:57:45 I don’t think that that built confidence. I think we have a great finance team in place now. I think Alicia’s doing a great job under Thatcher and getting all these numbers together. My understanding is that by November we will know whether or not we can build a bridge or a barn, and we should have a real number for Village Street, and that we know how much money we need for phase one of the harbor. So if I think if we can present those facts, and if the town decides that they would rather increase their taxes or pay for it a different way, then, then we can live with that. I do not believe that the proper facts were out there at the time from a variety of issues. Right. If I could, why? Yeah. I mean, I look, I mean, I think that’s a condition of every town meeting, right? Mm-Hmm. I mean, if we were to, uh, assess that, you know,

1:58:32 there’s misinformation, you know, whatever that means Mm-Hmm. Or that, uh, you know, there’s not enough discussion going into a town meeting, then, you know, know we would reserve the right to, uh, you know, to revise the voice of the legislature. I don’t think that’s a good precedent that we should be emphasizing. I think what we may, you know, there is a, there is a regular right, but at, at a regular, at another town meeting. Right. We didn’t Have a deadline, is my only, sorry to interrupt you, but we didn’t have a deadline in place. I agree. So I think that that’s what’s, what’s forcing this. If, if not, then we could spend our time. So that’s why I think, and there are a lot of towns that do a following spring town meeting as well, because lots of times financially pointing for, for contract negotiations and the stuff in the spring when, when it comes up, is a different timing. So I think the difference in

1:59:18 what you’re saying is that deadline. No, I think that’s the, you know, I think you’re, again, you’re appealing to my, you know, strong concern that we’re gonna say goodbye to a lot of money and having spent a lot of my time in town Yeah. Service to town, government with finances, it’s, it’s, it’s a big issue for us. Um, but I do, you know, I do wanna acknowledge that, you know, that we did have, you know, uh, you know, I accept the outcome of the vote. Um, I would like to find a way for the groups that are, you know, opposed to this, to, you know, to see their way forward, um, to, you know, to help us get to, you know, to, to a practical, uh, financial outcome, not withstanding. Look, I get it. I mean, I, I’m from an old Marblehead family and we, we, we don’t like the imposition of the state a lot,

2:00:05 but that, that’s one, you know, this is an urgent consideration as my colleagues are saying, and, uh, you know, well, I’m gonna, I’m going to, uh, you know, I’m just going to take it, uh, under consideration. Mm-Hmm. You know, and, and I think the arguments you’ve put forward are, you know, are, are, uh, are, are reasonable. Um, but I need to get more information, frankly, on, on, in terms of how we might proceed with, uh, you know, with a special town meeting. I could see it coming later at a regularly scheduled town meeting. But, uh, So what, I Guess, let, well, let me think of the deadline issue. Don’t have, I don’t have an answer. So you don’t know what information you Well, I, I, yeah, I mean, well, I just need to do more, more research into it. Okay, fair enough. And hear and hear more arguments. Yeah. I mean, this is just like, I, I said just a discussion.

2:00:51 I just put it on for discussion. Um, Right. I, I think that’s right. We’re, we’re, we’re kind of a discussion phase. We’re Not, um, if we wanna continue it at a different meeting, if we wanna take a vote on, on it, uh, I will say that we have three full-time staff positions, people on staff whose job it is to literally apply for grants who will be really hand tied. Uh, and, you know, we’re, this town is paying for the, these, you know, staff positions that are dedicated to helping us, you know, decrease our alliance on taxpayer funds and, uh, you know, capture, we’ve in capturing, um, we have a grant writer starting,

2:01:37 we have a sustainability coordinator who, um, is working at every day, like reviewing grant applications and, um, and, and then a town planner who’s just started this week. So, uh, those are three people that, you know, we be trying to maximize revenues and not raise taxes and meet the needs of our infrastructure. We have set up the town voted on those positions, I believe at least, uh, maybe not. That was a internal New York anyway, previous. Regardless, uh, you know, free people on staff whose hands will be really tied to do their job. If we don’t allow for further consideration of this issue,

2:02:24 this will be, uh, create a burden on our, you know, if we, these fi we’re, we’re working on a $15 million project on the sea walls on the, on the harbor. That’s 75% design ready, getting to shovel ready. And, you know, the, the, the grant, the, the applications now, I’m told by several people at the top of the application, first thing requirements. It’s like, you know, this type of a community and three, a compliance shows up. Is that fair to, is that a fair statement? Yeah, Yeah. It’s starting to be included in the scoring for competitive grants. So we will be less competitive in a competitive process for limited state funds for the infrastructure needs

2:03:10 and projects, um, that need to get done. Can, can I say one more thing? Thank you, Madam Chair. Uh, most I agree with you. I don’t like to be told what to do. You can ask my parents. My teachers, uh, that’s why I work for myself, is I’m a horrible employee. I don’t like to be told what to do as well. Um, but I think that this is one small component of the future of modeled is, is, is I get it’s d from different places from like a finance standpoint. Right? Like, I get it, I get that. I hear from people, our roads need work. Sure. I get it. There’s a lot of things that need to be done. This is one financial component of the future of Marblehead. I’m sorry. I’m very, very aware of that. Yeah. So I’m just saying, I look at this as big picture, not just as one thing. If we lose these grants now, I’m, I’m trying to make sure it doesn’t get shot down again. Alright. So we gotta fight. We gotta figure out a way through it. Exactly. Right.

2:03:55 I disagree. I mean, look, I mean, however, we have a, you know, we have an entrenched Yep. Group that are making very reasonable points about how our democracy runs right now. I, I think there’s some, there’s something I have to think about it. Mm-Hmm. Take some time to think about it. I’m not gonna speak off the cuff, but it’s, you know, right now in my mind, I’m on the horns of a dilemma. I’d like to, I’d like to try to for sure. You know, to get off of that. Yeah. So, no, your point’s well taken. Believe me, I understand exactly what the financial implications are. Right. I’ve spent most of my, My service, well, I’m, yeah. I’m saying I look at it as, as this is one little picture in this, in this big wrong, so. Sure. Yeah, I know it. I know it. Um, anybody else? Yeah, just, I mean, I think just if you can Speak to this point of clarification for me is in regards to the funding, there was a lot of information

2:04:44 that was going back and forth about town meeting, in town meeting in regards to, uh, where we were, uh, the, what the concern was for the loss of funding versus, um, in actuality, you know, what that looks like in there was some concern, obviously about whether or not the discretionary grants were actually going to be included or not. And obviously that is one of the things that we’re looking at as the, you know, the numbers start to increase about what, what is the financial impact in a situation that we are really struggling with a lot of other financial impacts. So, um, you know, I think at this point in, obviously this is a situation, you know, with Milton,

2:05:31 where they said, no, thank you. We’ll do without your money, you know, we’ll, we’ll pay for it ourselves. Um, so, you know, I think that where we were was a, maybe this is an issue I think now in, you know, the end of August. It’s not a, maybe it’s, you know, there’s a definite impact that we’re going to be hit by financially regardless of the discussion of the vote. I’m just talking about logistics of the financial impact of where we are and, and the projects that we’re putting forward and the competitiveness of our ability to access that money is now being directly impacted. Is that a true statement? Yeah. And, and the picture’s becoming clearer for us because at the same time, this issue was raging and everyone that was asking the questions,

2:06:20 we were in the throes of putting together town meetings. So we were all at max bandwidth. Um, as we talked about here with our financial software systems, it was not easy to pull the information together. Um, again, it’s disparate information because we have so many different components of the local government that were doing their thing. So for the finance team to try to, you know, put a coherent picture together was, that was really challenging. Uh, in April leading up to May, you Also didn’t have a town planner. Yes. And I think that was, I think that was the key difference. The key person, Becky Curran, uh, who was one of the major architects who, you know, for 30 some odd years taking care of bobblehead zoning

2:07:10 and, and all these issues wasn’t there to kind of talk about what went into the plans and how they were crafted, uh, along with the planning board to make, make those plans work for Marblehead and still be compliant. Uh, I think it was mentioned earlier, you know, they, I think did an incredible job of, of bridging that gap in between. Um, but, but you know, none of that came into play at the time. So, um, but yeah, our, our financial, our picture of what the impact is, what our history has been, has gotten a lot more clear than what we had available back, um, in the spring.

2:07:55 Okay. Now I’m just trying to separate the two issues. And obviously, you know, there’s discussion between special town meeting and hitting a deadline and regular town meeting and wherever that is over here. But then the second piece is at town meeting, we have to balance a budget. We have to have a certain amount of money to balance that budget, and there’s gonna be a certain amount of money we don’t have. So we have to figure out where’s that money coming from? Yeah. How are we accessing it? Is it taxation? What, you know, what are we doing to, to close that gap? And then how wide is that gap now, um, based on where we are. So, and just in trying to holistically look at what are all the different parameters we’re considering right now. Yeah. And there’s a lot of work being with, with the finance office and the, um, finance committee

2:08:41 of really putting a detailed financial forecast, uh, of the town. So there is, all the department heads are involved. Obviously Alicia is the chief financial officer. Deep into doing that to, for Marblehead to have the clearest picture possible of, you know, what’s, what’s our current financial status and where is it going? Right. Like, what is the burden we’re gonna be Yeah. Putting on others. Yep. Well, I think you can immediately expect, because we already have seen it happen to Milton, was that they lost their seawall funding. Um, that was the immediate impact of the, um, uh, the, the, you know, the outcome of that decision by the town.

2:09:28 Um, so they forego that seawall funding. I, you know, we have a whole Harbor plan implementation committee that’s been working, um, in the, in the harbor plan that’s new. We have a lot of, um, we are already in the pipeline and like I said, 75% design phase, um, at this point on the critical infrastructure that is, you know, that, I mean, we’re, we’re right on the coast. I don’t think it’s something we have the luxury to afford to, to say no to. Um, I have, I also feel like, you know, A couple things. I feel like we have met our understanding of the consequences going forward. I heard a lot of people at town meeting requesting that this meeting be put off, that we not take the vote

2:10:14 that we have it in the fall. Um, and, you know, I think people felt like it was too early. They hadn’t heard enough about it. They wanted to see where the other towns fell on it. And, um, well, you know, we were still in compliant until December 31st. Like, can we just take this up when we have a better understanding of it? So I heard that. I also, um, you know, I feel we took an oath of office to uphold the laws of the Commonwealth when we were sworn in to this, to this seat. And I also feel that we have a fiduciary, real fiduciary duty to the residents and taxpayers of this town to understand the enormous impact and consequences of, uh, this decision.

2:11:00 Um, whether we vote the plan yes or no, but I think people need to have that full picture and full information when they vote. I also would also note that, you know, we have 16,000, again, the imp impact of this decision is, is large. And I think we have 16,000 registered voters in this town. And, you know, this came before this ended up coming before, like Dan said, on a second night of a town meeting, a lot of people didn’t understand and, you know, felt like we needed more time voiced that position that they wanted to have an a, a meeting in the fall. Uh, I just think, you know, it, it bears out, I think coming down to 33 votes on the second night of town meeting, the impact being what it is, we owe it to

2:11:47 the residents to give them an opportunity to really reconsider or consider this with full information, with updated information. And, you know, it’s totally within the board’s purview by a statute, by right to convene a special town meeting. The select board has done it in the past on many different occasions. Um, you know, we didn’t have a town planner at the time. It was presented at town meeting. We’ll have a town planner. I think people can make more of an informed decision on it. We can have, um, a forum where people could a ask question that’s in answer. So it just feels like, you know, um, that we have more, more town weighing in more representation on this important issue. Well, you know, and I, I expect Moses’ request to,

2:12:34 you know, have, you know, perhaps a little bit more time to process and I’m, you know, trying to process all these things, um, you know, as separate entities, whether, you know, whether the vote stands, whether it’s a revote, all of the, all of the options there is a financial impact. We’re already at a point where we’re, our finances are impact. Like, I’m staring at a department head right now who’s, you know, feeling that that burden, right? So, yeah. What, What, what I would say is I would strongly encourage, you know, your continued work to get definition around what it, you know, when we set the budget or contemplate setting the budget, what it means to us. Right. I think that’s really crucial. And, you know, your, your work is vital in this way, however, you know, whether it’s reconsidered soon

2:13:20 or later, that work is gonna need to be done. And I think where we understand that the impact is gonna be, is gonna be pretty, pretty big. Um, you know, I can’t just, you know, I mean, again, I think we, uh, we have to respect the vote. I’m hoping there’s a way forward with the folks that are, you know, in opposition to this. And, and, uh, and I think it’s important that we, that we, you know, continue to gather as much information as we can. Yeah. I mean the, the two issues here, but you have to remember, you, you know, the zoning, you know, board presenting it did a great job. I mean, let’s just be honest. I mean, Becky and them, I mean, they did a good job on that side. Okay. And so they said they took it, they got the consultant, they said, this is the area. Um, but in terms of the impact to the town,

2:14:06 everything was hyperbole. I did not see anything in writing. I did not see something. I mean, I agree with all what, what Ms. Nunan you, you know, has talked about, but I wanna see that, you know, I want see what it’s going to impact. Um, ‘cause also, let’s just be honest, this is going to get worse. Okay? The state’s done it. This has given us a list this long to comply with. It’s gonna get, keep getting longer. I mean, so this is only gonna grow and compound. But I think to go back to the citizens and to overrule that vote, we need to, as a board say this is either what’s changed or here’s the actual information. Um, because we’re, we’re, we’re, you know, we’re, we’re asking the town to come in on a, potentially in a November or December, you know, day to vote.

2:14:52 And for us to, to do that special election, it should be special. And the burden should be on us. And right now, I don’t think we’ve met our burden except for talking. I want to support it. I do, I, for all the reasons that’s been talked about here, I think, you know, the diversification of housing. So I hope it passes. But I think to get to that, we need to see something. And we’re just talking, I, I want to see, you know, Alicia and you Thatcher put something together for us. You know? Um, because I think that added confusion with the FOIA requests and, and everything. And, and that I think just added to more, well, what’s going on? And, and, and that was just a shame, not shame on us. Let’s just be honest. Shame on us and we can do better. And, and so if we are gonna ask this citizen to come back, then we have to, you know, we need to have

2:15:37 that, that evidence. Is there more information, Alicia and Thatcher? Is there more information that you feel like we could provide to residents that ha wasn’t provided earlier? Now that it’s August? Well, I think there is more information. Yes. I’m here. I’m Saying there’s More. Yes. And I think there’s more clarity. ‘cause we keep hearing the comments that as if this is a mandate to build 900 more houses, right? This is not a mandate to build anything, right? This is a requirement to set zoning in place. Um, and, and we have a plan of how to do that, to provide the opportunity, the economics that already exists will dictate

2:16:23 what is built and what’s not built. And I think that was one of the earlier arguments is the economics is already there determining the, the capacity for what could be built in Marblehead. Um, but I think, so, so the action of the board right now, or the next step of the process is in order to have a special town meeting, there’s, there’s a timeline, a process that needs to be, uh, met. And so with a, with a notional calendar of a, of a meeting in November, um, there is the process of opening the warrant. Closing the warrant and such. And I think one of the considerations

2:17:08 of the notional timeline is to give max, uh, notice to the public as whether we’re going to have a special time meeting. Even though, even though under the law, you, you, you can make the notice as short as 14 days. Um, the intent here is to make it somewhere around two months of timeframe to put the, the matters of, of a special time meeting out in the public to be deliberated for information, be shared, exchanged, uh, to maximize that space, to ensure that we really, really inform the public on, on all these. So that, so that whoever’s, whoever comes to town meeting,

2:17:56 uh, can be as well informed as possible as to what their decision is. Could we dedicate like a webpage on our site to this issue? ‘cause I think that was also, information was hard for people to find. Yeah. Um, just regular attendees of town meeting. Um, I think we’re seeing it for the very first time, uh, despite the efforts of the planning board to put on many different forums about the issue. Uh, so I think I offer, you know, I appreciate the, the, the, you know, take a vote and move on mentality. But if the vote’s made without full information, if people don’t know what they’re voting for, if the consequences, you know, now we have a even more

2:18:41 of a full picture of what that is. Uh, I do think given the magnitude of the decision and the consequences on the town, that it is, uh, imperative to allow a second, uh, second consideration for the voters. And it would be the, it’ll be the voter’s, um, chance to vote, uh, before we fall into non-compliance if it doesn’t pass, Uh, just a point of information. So what I tried doing there is an announcement in the beginning, and so I tried to pin it. And the way our website currently is, as new things come up, that pin actually moves down. So, oh, right. We are trying, right now, I’m in the middle of converting to a different website that’s much more user friendly, where we can communicate much better, more transparent with the public. But our current website does have some constraints,

2:19:28 just like caller systems. I will find out to see if we could get a dedicated page on the website. I will see what I can do with our current vendor. We could put up some FAQs frequent, you know, um, the plan itself. I just think it’s hard for people. It’s complicated. Zoning is technical, it’s another thing, you know, people, it’s, it’s a kind of a technical conversation. It’s not something that, um, you know, is like just an easy thing to understand for folks. It’s not a mandate to build anything. It’s an overlay. Uh, you know, we have, um, I, I guess, uh, what do you think, um,

2:20:14 this, do you think staff would be in a position to present some, some type of, um, you know, I guess more fulsome picture or specific picture around the, you know, what are we applying for or what are the grants that we could be applying for or intended to that say, you know, that we will not be competitive on with a, with now if we lack, and I think our sustainability coordinator, Logan, would be the, a big player in that. Yep. Um, a lot of the information, when people said, when we had such a short window to produce, it was also those deadlines. So even though we’re estimating this is the impact and what we’re thinking the grant’s gonna be, it’s much more different once the grant opens. Logan applies for the grant, we’re awarded the grant, right? So what the time we’re making our estimations

2:21:00 and showing you the past versus now with the new information, now that it’s more grant focused and he is actually out there applying what we’re actually receiving Mm-Hmm. To better educate the public. Mm-Hmm. You may not even know the, the answer to this too, but even talk to Lisa Mead to find out what would our litigation expense be next year, because that’s, you know, because if we don’t comply, not only are we losing out on the grants, we are now in a lawsuit like Milton, because there’s 177 communities about right now that are where we are right now. We have until December, you know, Milton’s the only one, I think the other 44 or so, you know, they all approved. So all the rest of us have the December 31st, 2024 deadline, and now we’re gonna be brought into that suit potentially. Right. So I could ask her about the month, how much would be, but based on the last budgets we passed,

2:21:46 which have all been reduced, if I had to find money, I would have to cut somewhere because, well, that’s what I’m saying. This is what I want. This is what we need to go back to educate the voters. Because again, I wanna respect the vote of town meeting, and I’m not against a special one because I think we should do this, but I wanna get the information now before I make that determination. So that way, even if it’s not complete, but I want enough now to say to me, I wanna have a special town meeting knowing all this, looking at the impact, because I agree with everybody here from a fiduciary standpoint, and, and I want it, but I also have to respect town meeting.

2:22:27 I could, uh, Matt, you follow up, you know, marble headers are kind of show me people, you know, and I’m wondering, I’m wondering, let’s just say in any scenario we fall out compliance, whether we have a town meeting, we don’t, or we, you know, continue with this vote. Is there a, is there an opportunity to fall back into compliance at some point? That Was my next Question. And what does that, you know, and what does that kind of look like, Presumably, Because, you know, I, I think we, you know, if we go forward to the budget and we have big gaps in, in our capacity to fund these things, and perhaps there’s a debt override that replaces what otherwise would’ve been a very lucrative grant. People go, Hey, well, that this doesn’t make sense. Well, presumably, uh, we could get back in. The concern is there are certain, um, grant cycles that when you get knocked out,

2:23:13 you go back to being end of the line. So the Village Street bridge, right. Is that example, um, going through the whole MP process. And we’ve been process Working on that For a while. That’s that’s years in the making. Yeah. Two or three years. And so you get knocked off that list, you’re back of a crowd. Yeah. Trying to get back on. That’s, that’s the implication. Yeah. I, I think those types of things, if we can show simple, this is what we’re going for, this is, and, and this is what we’re in the process, the facts. Mm-Hmm. Right. Sure. Sure. So for the financial facts, like maybe that’s new information, whatever that is. So I think that maybe if we could dedicate some time at our next meeting with those facts Mm-Hmm. So that, that we can all feel comfortable with that. Well, I think In any case, we, in any case, in any outcome, we need to know that.

2:23:58 And we need to know scale, correct. Timing, the whole nine yards. Yep. Okay. Thank you, Alicia. Um, okay. So with that said, how do you, do you, should we, uh, continue the conversation at the next agenda? Yes. Yeah. I, I would say to, to, yeah, Mr, you know, Keer, I would say whenever he thinks he would have the information that either okay. Either he or Alicia or others could come back, I think that would be, um, that’d be my recommendation. Okay. Well, I would say setting expectations, right? Um, the timeline to do this process and provide maximum opportunity of notice to the public

2:24:46 is probably shorter than the amount of work to, to have full picture. So it, I think, um, again, the next action would be by the board as far as if we’re gonna hit a November date of which meeting coming up to initiate the process. And then the, the, the information gathering is, is just gonna be ongoing. Right. What could we have by next meeting? Like estimates? I know. Yeah. We can have a, uh, as So I think if we can have something, it doesn’t have to be everything. No, no. It doesn’t have to be. But if we can have that Harbor resiliency is 15 million, and that’s phase one, the bridge on two different scenarios. I’m assuming we won’t have an answer in two weeks.

2:25:32 This is how much it is. We have to do a bridge. This is how much approximately. Yeah. If we need a bar and those other things, at least gives us, gives us something. Because I don’t think that we all feel comfortable without that. Yeah. We, we put some, I think you, we have a lot of that. We have a lot of that. It’s just going together. We were a little hamstrung at last town meeting providing some of the specifics. A because it wasn’t really clear back then what the, you know, um, you know, when or, or how they would be enforcing it. We are seeing it already. We didn’t have a town planner to speak to those, um, you know, who really understand who’s spent 30 years writing grants for the states and, um, had her very, very strong opinions about this. And, um, you know, Alicia, obviously we had a finance director who was entirely

2:26:20 consumed with the, the budget, um, process and preparing the budget for town meeting and all of the other financial in, uh, articles at town meeting, uh, itself. So, you know, we also have now a state sustainability coordinator. We have a grant writer coming on. We have a town planner coming on. We’re now aware of, you know, how this is going to play out. Um, you know, what’s, what’s at stake. Uh, and I just think, you know, allowing people that opportunity where that information wasn’t, you know, really together, we would be able to present that if we did have another special town meeting. Like that would be, obviously our expectation would be that we would make the, it’d be the another chance to,

2:27:07 you know, present it and, and, and, and, and explain it to voters. Yeah. And that’d also make the recommendation that we put a placeholder on next May’s meeting because in the event we do have a special election, and let’s say we do pass this and then, you know, and then it does get rescinded in a long range because of the SJC. We can then reci have a, have the opportunity to rescinded if we so choose, you know, or maybe more information comes out, because I don’t think we’re gonna get that result. But I think, you know, and maybe it doesn’t even pass at this special town meeting that we, you know, if, if, if we do get to that stage. Yeah. So that also gives us another potential place where, because we’re gonna have to do that work in what, January and early February, so, Yeah. Yeah. It’s a lot of time. I mean, and basically the better part

2:27:53 of a year went into yeah, creating this plan, working with a consultant time, work people’s effort, um, multiple for, you know, forums. I don’t know how well they were attended ‘cause it was hosted by the planning board. Um, you know, and the, you know, the better part of a year’s work of the planning board and our town planner and consultants that we had went into this plan and Mm-Hmm. Just wanna make sure that it got its fair shake and people felt like they had the full information that they needed at the time to vote on it. Okay. Well, and I think that, um, often we, as the executive, uh, regardless of the special time meeting, if we weren’t on a deadline, there will be things that we as an executive will bring to the legislature and we’ve ran an override and it’s been voted down. It doesn’t mean that we’re not going to have to come back

2:28:40 to the town again and say, no, yet we, we we’re trying to give you, you know, whatever the, um, modifications that were needed. But, uh, you know, obviously that’s a separate, uh, topic. But the point is, you know, there, um, there is, and have seen that we as an executive bridge have had things we’ve had to bring to town meeting and then, you know, because we still need the finances or we still need to address this, are we starting to, that then it’s bringing it back to the legislature to say, you know, we, we still, we still have this, you know, concern to address. So, I mean, it’s obviously a different topic, but just the difference between what our position is and what the legislature’s role is like. Obviously this is much more complicated, um,

2:29:25 because of everything else that comes into play. But I do think, you know, to respect to getting a little bit more information and clarity and where we were from May to where we are now, and then, um, looking forward with separately wherever that, wherever that decision gets made, whether it happens or doesn’t happen, what is the real financial impact on our departments that are already really struggling. So that, that really, um, is a concern. So thanks. Okay. So, um,

2:30:03 I think, are we ready to move on? We know we’ll continue to be continued to, um,

2:30:12 uh, we do have letters of resignation from the cemetery commission, um, which if you, um, I would encourage you to read, um, two letters of resignation from Pam Peterson and Janet Merrill. It’s a three member board. Two have resigned for reasons stated in their letter. Um, seems to be some issues like departmentally, organizationally, uh, with the, um, that, you know, that they’re, that they, that they’ve expressed. So, um, we can appoint, given the vacancy, there’s so two of three vacancies now. So

2:30:57 The two vacancies, so three member board, two vacancies, right? They’re elected position. So it would need to be in a joint meeting with the one member still there. Uh, and the select board to appoint replacements to fulfill the remaining time of these terms. Mm-Hmm. So one of ‘em just got elected, so it would be fulfilling almost a full three year term. And I’m not sure where in the cycle Pam was. Okay. Okay. So we need to, so resume Submission concerning why they both resigned is, is concerning that through the structure of the cemetery department is court defined, though. It is, it’s, it’s clearly not being followed. So it’s it’s concerning. It’s concerning. Right, right there. Clearly with our, the way our town is set up, we don’t have a lot of say over

2:31:44 that, um, except for appointing new people. But it is a concerning issue. Well, I think we have to understand, I think what the issue is around their resignation so that we can at least brief potential candidates that can step into the breach, you know? So, um, yeah, and I, I mean, we, we, we should solicit letters of interest. I, I know that, you know, it has been, it’s one of those elected positions that has from historically, from time to time found, found it hard to fill, people willing to run and campaign for that. Um, so we’ll see what we get and put out letters of interest, um, solicit letters of interest for, uh, appointments. At this point. It’s an elected board that we would be appointing to

2:32:29 This point of a question, can we appoint someone temporarily? ‘cause my concern here is that they can’t even hold a meeting because they don’t have quorum at this point. Yeah, I was gonna ask that question. You know, what’s, what’s, uh, we’ve had re reservations all the time, but now we’re below quorum. I mean, how do they operate? Well, there is the rule of necessity. Mm-Hmm. That may apply. I’d have to check on that. Um, but rule of necessity deals with a potential conflict or members can’t participate due to conflict. Rule of necessity allows them, um, there was a select board in another town, which they all resigned, but one, and that one Selectmen continued on, made the motion, the second did the vote, did the minutes.

2:33:14 Um, we will have to look at, I mean, the issue is on a regular basis of making sure the warrant assigns for payroll and those, those type of things to make sure those are not interrupted. Um, and through the CFO, we, we make sure in cases like that, that payroll gets met, all those things as far as sign offs. Um, so we’ll figure, we’ll figure those things out. But yeah, we’re, they’re the less than a quorum. Gotta figure It out yesterday. So today’s the 28th. Um, today’s the, the, today’s the 28th. Our next meeting is on the 11th. Uh, do we feel that, um, if we post the position, you know, announce it tonight po

2:34:04 or announce like, you know, we’re seeking to, um, to appoint two members to the cemetery commission as soon as possible. Um, I don’t know how often their right, their meetings are. I mean, I think it’s kind of ad hoc, but, um, I guess how much time do we think is enough time to collect any potential interested volunteers in serving this role? Can we take ‘em on a rolling basis or do we want to do it the Friday before the second meeting of the month? Uh, next month? Yeah, I think that that’s, uh, like a month, right? That gives people month. A month. Yeah. So Basically the Friday before The Okay. Second meeting. Okay. So, so why don’t we make it, which is what The T 20th? The 20th? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So that’s 20th.

2:34:51 That’s Pretty good. So the 20th. So September 20th, if anybody’s interested in serving out the remaining terms on the elected, um, cemetery commission, uh, send us your letters of interest and, um, resumes and address them, you know, to, uh, Kyle Wiley, and she will get them to everybody at the board. Uh, we’ll also post it on the website and, um, yeah, please, uh, consider it. And, um, like we said, September 20th, we’ll see what we have. And then is the intent for the 25th for joint meeting, because we’ll coordinate with the, We’ll have to coordinate with The one commissioner. Right. So hopefully he could attend

2:35:37 one of our regular meetings. Yeah. Ideally if they, he’s available to attend on the 25th. 25th. Yeah. And okay. Yeah, that’s, that’s good plan. Yep. Everybody Okay? Okay. Sounds good. Okay. Um, so, uh, we had moved town administrator updates, um, to the end of the agenda. I’ll turn it over to our town administrator. All right, Mr. pe. Thank you. Um, I provided a memo, uh, in, in your packet. Um, and the focus on, on this update is on, uh, sort of the, the, uh, accomplishments and challenges within the treasure collector’s office. We’ve had, uh, in the past, uh, talked about some of the,

2:36:23 some of the, the challenges they’ve been facing in, in some, the, the successes. So I wanted to put it together, um, in, in, in a, in a package form. So some of the challenges from the past, uh, cash reconciliation, which is, uh, um, one of the main duties of the treasurer is accounting for all of the bank accounts. And all, you know, with all the transactions that between the treasurer and the account accountant is reconciling that, um, all of the, the, the, the transactions and the cash positions are all accounted for. Um, in the past, again, the underlying theme of a lot of the challenges in the treasure collector’s office is we’ve gone through six treasurer collectors

2:37:12 in like four years. Um, and so one, there was a, a loss of, of a lot of corporate knowledge and then turnover, uh, uh, uh, subsequent turnovers, um, that really sort of broke the chain of, of the corporate knowledge from, from one to the other. So, um, the, the cash reconciliation where, um, there should be done on a monthly basis that everything should be balanced out and that fell woefully be behind in that. Um, our previous treasurer collector, Rachel Blaze Dell, uh, when we hired her, walked into that mess. Uh, we did have, um, a retired treasurer, uh, part-time

2:38:01 helping working on it, but the work of, of Rachel and then Cammie, who is now our current full treasurer, um, and others really put in a tremendous amount of overtime and work to clear that out. So, um, the, the impact of that is allowing us to get our audit reports done on a more timely fashion. Um, getting our GFOA reports done on a more timely fashion. So there was a period of time where we did not have all the accounts reconciled, and it just stops all of the other reporting that needs to be done. Um, happy to report that that has been accomplished and caught up and with the current team are able

2:38:48 to keep that current. Um, number two, management of the town investments. And when I walked in the door and, and the town had just completed the CLA, uh, consulting report, which identified a whole lot of issues in, in, in that office, uh, of which I subsequently have reported that we’ve closed out nearly everything and the open items will be resolved when we migrate to the new Muni system. Um, but one of the, the, the topics that was discussed publicly was how well we are managing the investments in our accounts. Uh, again, uh, starting with Rachel and picked up by Camie. Um, having, uh, having some stability in

2:39:36 that position has allowed the capacity of that position to actively manage the funds. There was a period of time where there was no one in the seat or, or temporarily in the seat unable to manage our investments. The good news is that in fiscal 2022, our, um, total, um, income from investments was $66,232. At the closeout of fiscal 23, uh, we earned $1,349,592 in investment incomes. That’s great. So again, uh, another success, success story and incredible work by, um, basically the, the, the, the two treasurers that been here. Um,

2:40:23 Can I ask a quick question? So I know we have this, this turnover issue, uh, has plagued us, um, operationally, um, you know, there’s been consequences of it six going through cycling through six so quickly. That to me seems like something from a management point of view, maybe an US problem, not a van problem is there and Cammy’s doing a fantastic, phenomenal job putting in extra hours. I would like us to support her and, and, um, ensure that we don’t find ourselves in the same situation. Is this something that in management, you’ve taken a look at the workload of that position, and is there things that we can do to create a better retention for that position? Yes. Support, education and reorganization.

2:41:11 So it’s not normal for a population of 20,000 to have only three people. It’s, it’s severely under, In the treasure collector’s office. I came from a 10,000 Head five. So I think people need to understand that we have, Think Becomes a budget issue too, which Makes a difference. So she now has that support. So when she started, it was just her and Amy alone. Yeah. And they hit every tax statement. Sure. Everything was hit, which is unbelievable with two people. Um, and now she has a, a whole full floor. So when she was behind and had to catch up all of her receipts with her team of fourth, they’re caught up to date now. So we, we had a budget analyst position that existed and was funded. So we, we flipped that from being a budget analyst to another clerk position within the treasurer’s office. ‘cause one of the challenges in that office is the customer

2:41:58 service window, right? And so when you had only two people, the treasurer, collector and, and, and a senior clerk, somebody had to be that at that window. Um, so, so we now have the treasurer, assistant treasurer, and the two clerks in that office. The other, the other area that has impact is the better collaboration and coordination with the assessor’s office because there’s so many transactions that are driven by the assessor’s office, but people are all going to the treasurer’s office. And so, uh, creating stability in the assessor’s office. So they have the capacity to, to handle the, the, you know, the answering questions takes the pressure off on

2:42:44 the treasure collector side. And so bringing them all into one under one umbrella under the CFO is already sort of cleaning up how, how information flows and, and, and, and how people walking in can get to the right place and get the right information right away. Um, so there are, there are a number of organizational things that are, that are adding to it. If I could just add real quick, how’s The, uh, work tempo, uh, for the, you know, for the current structure for the current team? If you can come to the mic, Alicia. Just ‘cause I want every, I want them to be able to pick it up on the Yeah. Tv, uh, really great. So we have a meeting once a month. We had one today. So we talk about, uh, any kind of issues we have or how to improve some processes between all the divisions, which is greater,

2:43:30 something that they need. Uh, one thing that has improved is sometimes maybe somebody who’s out the window just doesn’t know the answer and they just need to sit and, and know what to say. Mm-Hmm. Um, so sitting with them and explaining what happened and how to explain it to the taxpayer makes all the difference. And I, I forwarded a nice email from a taxpayer to Thatcher thinking Cammy, who sat there and broke down their tax bill to the calculation with them, let them understand everything and how it works. And then her teaching her team how to work with them, um, constantly knowing I’m available constantly the division heads being available and supporting their team. So I’ve seen a, a really uptick in the morale now, right. Between the two offices Chair, if I could ask to follow up, how’s the tech kind of supporting that, the new,

2:44:15 the new capabilities that we have? So Cammy, I know, I know you’re in the process of Yeah, so Cammy’s excited ‘cause I keep telling her things and I’ve actually had her on a couple of Eunice training. So as for tech right now she’s on the new QuickBooks system, which is much better than the Excel we had, which Rachel instituted, which we’re using. Now with the new Muni software, it has a full cash module where it has AI technology and capability that will literally take the transactions that are coded from the bank, match them up in the ones that are not matched, are the ones that she has to look at cutting down much of her reconciliation time. Wow. Wow. Okay. So it is happening there. There’s more focus on, you know, uh, responding to resident residents when they have questions. Correct. And they’re just more productive in the, on the number nagging side. Yes. And, and just appro processes, one of the best things

2:45:02 that Cam constantly does with me, she’s looking at those financial policies and processes saying, Hey, maybe we could do this. Maybe we should do that, and may could prove this and it’s really working. Great. That’s Awesome. That great. Thank you so much. That’s great. That’s great news. Yeah. So Yeah. ‘cause it really is our mission control. Yep. You know, from an organizational standpoint, and, you know, if it’s understaffed, we pay the consequences of it as an enterprise. Um, it’s the mission control, it’s where you collect all your revenues. So, so the current challenge in which again is a result of, you know, turnover and staffing, um, is, uh, our tax withholding reporting. So our, uh, withholdings, uh, for salary, um, federal taxes being withheld. So that’s about, um,

2:45:48 each quarter is about 2.2 million, give or take. So it’s about $10 million a year that has to be reported to the IRS and payments made to the IRS for federal tax withholdings. Um, what we’ve discovered, uh, we received the notice from the IRS that we were in arrears by a very large amount. Um, the notice was mm-hmm. Over 1.3 million. And so Cammy got that notice, sat down with the CFO, uh, and then we got Lisa meet involved too to, to, to help us navigate. Um, and so the issue there has been that over the last several years, going back at least 2009, uh, 20 19, 20 20 timeframe that, that we know of,

2:46:35 um, the issue has been, again, about 2.2 million. It goes from 1.5 to 2.2 or so million each quarter. Um, the process of reporting to the IRS of what our withholdings liability is, it’s like a resident, your annual income tax you put down on the form, this is what we owe in taxes, and then you write the check and you send it in. Right. Um, so this happens on a quarterly basis for the municipal world. Um, the payments are made every pay cycle, but the reporting’s quarterly and what was happening is there were errors in the reporting. One of the errors that appears is the difference between our fiscal year state and the federal fiscal year.

2:47:22 And so the reporting requirements is done online filling in dropdown forms. And so over a number of years we’ve been hitting the wrong fiscal, uh, the wrong quarter cycle. So to the IRS, you didn’t make the payment in quarter one because we reported it as quarter two or vice versa. Right. Um, what was concerning to us is that as we discovered this and started working with the IRS, that this has been an open issue going back a number of years. It’s just, it was never resolved with the IRS. So we’ve jumped in, um, uh, with Lisa Mead’s help, uh, got a, a forensic audit firm that focuses on these things

2:48:07 to help us in, in Cammie, again, is in the trenches, uh, uh, Alicia, and we’re reconstructing all of the, the payrolls and the quarterly reporting and trying to sort out, so what we’ve done so far, so that 1.3 million was, um, what they’re, they’re considering is unpaid payroll taxes plus interest in penalties that adds up to, that we’ve already filed with the IRS requesting a waiver of the penalties and they have granted it. So that’s for every quarter that’s listed as being off. Um, that was what, 300 some odd thousand that was all done by. Yeah. So, so that’s come off.

2:48:53 So the current liability, uh, from the IRS is 908,984. So, so that’s what they’re considering is unpaid plus interest. Out of that 908,000, there’s one particular quarter in 2022 in which it appears to us to be a reporting area where, like I said, our normal payments are 2.2 million a quarter, we reported, uh, 2.8 million is what we were supposed to owe the IRS and then pay 2.2. So the IRS is coming back saying, you owe us another $511,000 outstanding,

2:49:39 um, plus penalties and interest. We think we’re, we’re working the process that we can show that it was a reporting error. Right. Uh, we overestimated what we owed, that that gets reversed. That is the vast majority of that outstanding number. And if that, if, and we’ve already filed with the IRS an amendment to that report to correct it, if they accept it, that brings the, the tax liability down to about the $300,000 range. And then the other quarters, that’s the, that one quarter was the big dollar one. All the others are much smaller dollar amounts. And our goal is just to peck away at that 300,000

2:50:26 and resolve the, the, the key thing is, um, the IRS is happy that we’re actively resolving the issue and through this process, the staff are being trained exactly how the reporting should be done, the timeliness of the reporting so that we don’t get back into this situation. And obviously, you know, document this so that people are trained knowledgeable and that that knowledge passes on. Um, so this has been, obviously when you get a notice with a figure that large, uh, 1.3 million, again, it’s a $10 million obligation on an annual basis, but to say we owe the iris 1.3 million, um, we quickly jumped on it and we are diligently working through the numbers and,

2:51:13 and bringing it down, um, to some reasonable amount that are probably just minor calculation errors rather than wholesale, you know, not making payments. Um, so that’s the, that’s been the focus right now. Um, we’re hoping to, to get this resolved in the matter of weeks, um, with the IRS and, and have it resolved. Would you say the new, having the new software and the new accounting and that sort of thing would be a big factor too in preventing something like this? Yes. Like moving forward as well? I mean, obviously there’s the training, there’s the turnover, but having the, the tools in place to make sure that this is traceable, trackable, yes.

2:51:59 Not running on spreadsheets. It’s for Medicare. Medicare is a simple one, 2.9, 1.45 employee, 1.45 employee. Yet our reports were skewing whether one side, one sign the employer’s higher, the employees lower, the employees are higher than, I’m like, that’s impossible. But just based on our antiquated is the way the software report was reported. And then some of the things we’re timing. So there’s cutoffs in time when you have to report the payment to make them on. You don’t hit a certain time of day and you’re after that time of day, now you’re hit again by the IS ‘cause you didn’t get it within the timeframe Is it stated the next day. So timing. Yeah. Yeah. So the answer is yes. I mean, we, a reoccurring theme is on the finance side is our software has been so outdated

2:52:45 and there’s so many different disparate systems that require a lot of manual processing from one database to another to another. Or we upgrade one part of the system and it breaks the link to the older parts. Um, and so we were just pushing our way through migrating to an enterprise system that resolves, uh, you know, I think it 99% of these issues, I think it reiterates the importance of what we’re trying to do. Just like proactively stay on top of the upgrades and the, you know, keeping those systems in place. So then it helps to like pay now, pay later. And finally, you know, implementing, um, establishing internal controls. The policies that this board, uh, has, um, has passed, uh,

2:53:34 implementing positive pay to prevent fraudulent checks that, you know, that was talked about before. Implementing a new PCard system, which is basically a, a corporate credit card for the municipality that allows department heads to, to be able to take care of certain transactions. If you’re signing up for an online training, you have to use a credit card. But it, it’s, it’s got all the controls that go back to the CFO. So we’ve, we’ve implemented a, a lot of those things, I can’t say enough, um, about Kami in Elli and, and, and, uh, Amy, uh, cone Chii, uh, um, just the incredible amount of work that they’re doing,

2:54:20 um, the amount of o overtime. I mean, when Rachel came in, she was doing so much of this, getting us to this level. And then, and then Cammie’s getting us to the next level. Lots of pe them working on holidays, weekends, nights, um, sort of an unsung hero thing of the amount of extraordinary effort that’s going in to, to get us to where we should be. Great. Thank you. Yeah. Well, I’m hearing just, you know, congratulations on that. I, I I think that, you know, what’s clearly happening is that there’s a team being built. They all feel like they’re moving towards a, a stable structure where their workflow’s gonna improve, where you’re gonna be able to have better visibility into,

2:55:06 you know, what’s going on. Uh, it’s really a remarkable achievement. And it’s, you know, it’s something that’s really been, I think it’ll, it’ll, it’ll, you know, it’ll allow for better transparency that, you know, to, to, to the, to the residents of the town. So all of this is really super appreciated. And this is quite a story around the 1.4 million, you know, and recouping that, uh, by, you know, re reconstructing, you know, through forensic accounting, what you know, what the issues were, and to knock it down to 300, hopefully continue making it down a little bit more. A really great accomplishment. Yeah. And one more update. Uh, our harbor mass is gonna be on Chronicle. Is he? That’s right. Yeah. I don’t know when. Tomorrow night. Oh yeah. Our harbor mass is on Chronicle tomorrow night.

2:55:52 How’s that? The finish the update. Yeah. That’s great. Perfect’s good update. Yeah. So, and, um, we’ll update, we’ll update the board on that matter. Yep. When, at an appropriate time in a few weeks when you have more to say, more to say on it. Um, okay. Uh, select board announcements. Does anybody have any announcements to make? Not me. Manager, chair Last. Select everyone who’s starting school this week, next week, last week. Welcome back. Yeah. Um, I’d just like to give a special commendation to our treasurer um, on top of what the, um, you know, thatcher’s, uh, words and, um, representing how hard she has been working and, um, others in that office. And I know that a lot of, of weeks and,

2:56:39 and overtime has gone into that. So, um, we just wanted to recognize that the work of the finance department and, um, particularly, uh, Kami Elli, I Nelli, um, as our treasurer. And then, um, lastly we had left at our retreat kind of, um, last that we felt like there wasn’t enough time to really finish off what our goals planning was. So, um, I was gonna see if there’s interest in the board and, um, convening for, maybe we could even get it done in, in like an an, you know, hour and a half, two hours, because we’re just kind of finishing off like some goal setting that we wanna do. And again, we can just, we should be able to, to do it in a,

2:57:25 a shorter timeframe because we’re not like, you know, we’re not actually talking the issues, we’re just identifying priorities. You know, we’re not gonna solve problems, we’re just identifying priorities that we wanna move on through the year. So, um, if folks wanted to, we could, um, What, what are you thinking? Um, continue that, uh, we could have a meeting. Um, what, what works for people for that purpose? I mean, it’s kind of a different, more creative space to think. Would you, would we wanna do like another Friday morning, like In an off, uh, off board meeting week maybe? Sure. Like, maybe like, I, like September 6th or So if we’re gonna, if, if we want to continue with Jeff Nutting, he’s not gonna be available on Fridays for the next couple months. Oh, gotcha. He’s available other, other time slots, but

2:58:12 Okay. He’s booked up, but, Um,

2:58:17 maybe should we get his schedule or, let’s See. Yeah, I, I would, well, I, I would suggest figure out, we could do it offline, figure a schedule for you and I’ll let him know. So, um, would Okay. Do people prefer an evening for this or a morning? I, I can do either. I think it depends on the day. Okay. You know, like if Friday morning is not an option, then I would probably ask for Yeah. An evening. Yeah. If like Monday evening is possible. Okay. Like maybe like a six o’clock Monday or something. That sounds good. That works for me. Okay. Um, okay, so it’s the 28th, just to finish up that, um, goal setting. So there’s the second, or that’s Labor Day? Sorry, the ninth

2:59:04 Is, um, Do Park project neighborhood meeting. Okay. Okay. Virtual meeting on the Yes, That’s true for the Gary. Um, I, I would suggest this if, if Friday is optimum for the board. Mm-Hmm. Okay. You know, we’ll proceed, we’ll continue on. Right. Yeah, that’s probably, Jeff was a valuable assistant, but, but we can, we have to, So Do the morning of the 20th. Um, would people be available on the morning of the sixth or the 13th? I’m not available on the 13th. I could do the morning of the sixth. I can’t Do the sixth. Okay. How about 20th? 20th. 20th. Sounds good. Works for me. 13th or 20th for me. Yeah. Okay. Um, and uh, okay. So we’ll do the morning of the 20th,

2:59:49 Eight 30 start time. That works for me. I like it. Yeah, don’t say it. Don’t say it. It’s a soft launch. Let’s make it hard this time. Um, yeah. And we’ll just eight 30. 8 30 0, 8 30. Hard, Hard. Eight 30. Exactly. No, no, That’s night. Even early. No, It’s not the early, it’s not the time of the morning, no matter. Any other announcements? Okay. So I just need a motion to adjourn. So moved Second. Um, all in favor? Okay, great. Thank you. Thank You.