Select Board: March 11, 2026

Transcript captured from MHTV’s Vimeo auto-captioning. No speaker labels; proper names and dollar figures occasionally misheard. Click any timecode to jump to that moment in the source video.

0:00 Now let’s call this meeting to order for the select board on Wednesday, March eleventh. I’d like to, like to announce this meeting is being recorded, and apparently we have a rock concert going on here as well. It’s all good. We will start our meeting off with public comment. Anybody wants to- Well, you don’t need microphone. Yeah, let’s– There’s not a microphone there, but it’s a good place to stand if you don’t mind. Yeah. Um, Nick Ward, Ralston Road. Um, I’ve got three points that I wanted to say. First is, look, you’re obviously going through a pretty difficult, budget override discussion. You have to come here, stay late, listen all the details, probably face criticism from folks in the crowd as well as I imagine in your private lives as well.

0:45 People who don’t want taxes to go higher, don’t want services cut, and sort of, you sort of can’t win. But the point that I wanna make is no matter how hard this budget override discussion feels to you now, it’s only gonna keep getting harder, I guarantee it. Um, I feel like I’ve been trying to make the point for the last few months now, it’s just town’s– sorry, the town’s demographics are completely upside down, and that’s ultimately the structural pressure that’s driving the operating deficit that you’re talking about at the moment, and it’s just gonna keep getting worse, right? So as tired as you feel when you get home tonight, just remember, like in a couple of years, you’re only gonna feel more tired. Point number two that I wanna make is, and look, you, you already know this, but like let’s state it explicitly in this room. No matter what outcome that you get at town meeting,

1:34 half the town is gonna hate you for it, right? Whether it’s the half that doesn’t want higher taxes or the half that doesn’t wanna see their services cut. Point number three is, I’m actually sympathetic to some extent to the select board on this front because as we all know, the reality is the select board really is more like a facilitation layer between the town staff and town meeting. Ultimately, the big decisions about what happens in Marblehead, including the decisions that we make around the budget, are made by town meeting. But voters don’t see it that way, right? They’re ultimately gonna hold you responsible for the outcome. So I’m sympathetic on that front. Where I’m less sympathetic is that in this discussion, right, there is a door number three in addition to increasing taxes or cutting services. And door number three is strengthening the tax base through

2:22 economic growth. Now, yes, true, that’s not gonna happen to help you next year, but it might help you the year after that and in the out years. And it’s absolutely baffling to me that like in my reading of the coverage of this discussion so far, nobody seems interested in opening up door number three and seeing what’s behind it, and whatever mechanism that you would want to do that, do that through. And the reason that it’s so baffling to me is it’s not just financial malpractice to think about economic growth and the, and new growth taxation, but it’s political malpractice as well because as I just said, this is only going to keep getting harder. People are gonna blame you, fairly or not. And so from my perspective, it’s just unclear to me like why you would not try to contemplate a, a strategy going forward

3:10 that makes better use of new growth taxation. Now look, I usually try to be a little bit more solution-oriented than I am tonight, but frankly, like, I just don’t have anything constructive for you. Like, I guarantee you that the structural pressures on the operating budget are just going to keep getting worse. Um, and so we face a really bleak situation in this town as it comes to our– when it comes to our finances, not just this year, but, like, even if you get a property tax override, I feel good, I feel confident that we will be back here in a few more years. So as I said, I like to– I would typically like to be more solution-oriented. I don’t have any more for you tonight. The best I can do is, like, I wish you the very best of luck moving forward. So- Thanks, Nick. Cheers. Appreciate it. Thanks.

3:55 Good night. Albert Jordan, Route Malta Avenue. Throwing more money is, is, doesn’t make any sense. Look at the state budget. The state budget over the last five years went up fifty percent, and they still have no money. So if you think if we wanna follow the state, and they kept taxing and fees and increasing, and the budget’s gone up fifty percent over the last five years, okay? And another thing about, the senior center. Um, I’ve worked with a lot of people that are older in this town over the years, and it’s ludicrous to cut the senior center at all. I’ve taken people up

4:41 there. When my mother couldn’t drive anymore, I used to take her up there to get out of the house. So if you close the senior center, what you’re doing is you’re increasing medical aids in the town, you’re increasing people staying home, getting depressed for nothing to do. Old people will go into nursing homes because they won’t be able to be mobile anymore. And you’ll actually increase– You’ll save money not funding the senior center, but you’ll actually increase healthcare costs, police and fire response for medical aids, because these people… So we have to look at this thing. I thought I was having a bad dream last week. I never knew. I knew we had no money. There’s no secret two months before town meeting. I’m, I’m just surprised. And then the, the, the, the, the thing with the health department

5:29 about assessing everyone for the trash, trash. This is like the teacher’s contract, okay? You’re threatening the people that if they don’t do this, if they don’t pay for their trash now, okay, that, you’re gonna pay for your trash and that’s gonna make the override a little bit lo-lower or something. You’re just moving it from one pocket. I’m still g– I’m still get– I’m not saving any money. If you eliminate a department, I expect to save money or be at the same level. I don’t… So, so what, what you’re telling me is I’ll pay two hundred and fifty dollar… And that’s just a start. That’s just a start. That’s gonna go upThat’s gonna go up. Let, let’s not– let, let’s put a price freeze on that for ten years like we did the last con-contract, okay?

6:16 So this is ludicrous to move– make money come out of my left pocket for right pocket. But I just wish the public… And, and I don’t know who you talk to. It’s not like the old days with the Selectmen met, that the public– We have a lot of knowledgeable people in this town, and I just don’t know. That just… He, you know, I guess he’s alone handling everything. He lives in Amesbury. I’ve lived here my whole life. I know more about this town. Nothing against him. He might be smarter and have a PhD or whatever he has. I didn’t go to college, but I have common sense ‘cause my parents had six kids, and we had to get used clothes, and we didn’t get any free food or anything like that. My parents worked their rear ends off and supplied for our kids.

7:02 And there were a lot of blue-collar people in this town. A house just sold, two houses from me on my street, for three point one million dollars last week in one day, I was told. I got a letter in the mail. I don’t know if it’s true. But what I’m saying to you is, I, I am trying to stay here, and I see a lot of people. I get calls on Christmas Day for people not having any heat, on a Sunday morning at five o’clock, there’s someone’s toilet’s overflowing because the senior center isn’t open on the weekends. And people that are older that live alone that either don’t have families around here or don’t have anyone, I volunteer and do things, because my parents taught us to do that. Um, and I’ve been rewarded from some people too, and I’ll say that.

7:47 But a lot of things I do for nothing. I, I was at Baraby’s Funeral Home two weeks ago making funeral arrangements for a person that just went in the nursing home. So it’s done, and they have… So the, the person that– only daughter that lives with them, it, it’s not an emergency at the end because I was down there Christmas Day with no heat. I, I look for the future and have a plan. I don’t wait two months before I… We– Everyone could see this coming. So, so I, I don’t… I… That’s why I really thought I was having a bad dream last week, okay? So I just hope the public, when we do these things, that there’s other ways. It shouldn’t be put on all the little teeny people in Marblehead and stuff. I’m, I’m just gonna tell you again last week, the Franklin Street Fire

8:33 Station, Swamp’s gonna have one fire station at the Lynn line. There’s other things that we can look at. Thank God in this town we don’t have a lot of fires. There was a fatality, in Salem yesterday during the day. Marblehead went over there, okay? Uh, there was just a fatality in Danvers during the day. The guy didn’t have smoke alarms. It was nothing to do they didn’t have fi– enough firemen or anything like that. A lot of these older people don’t even have smoke detectors in the houses that I go into, okay? I know there’s programs, but they’re not… They don’t wanna let the town into their house, and I’m not reporting them. Um, I don’t want them in a rat trap nursing home, but eventually, I had to put someone there a month ago or actually in November. Okay, thank you. Thank you, sir.

9:23 Tom McMahon, Sixteen Shorewood Road. I’m basing these comments off the, last meeting regarding override options. First, I’d like to say that I think it’s a catastrophic mistake to even be even considering cutting curbside trash and recycling and adding it to the override. Curbside trash and recycling is a rare service in town that everyone participates in and benefits from, major consequences should it be dropped. It should be one of the last things to be cut. I think you wildly underestimate these consequences should this service be removed from the town’s general budget. Aside from causing total confusion in the town on moving forward, I wanna make it very clear that the transfer station would not be able to handle the potential increased load, and

10:09 the two hundred and fifty dollar yearly cost figure that’s been discussed here is not even close to accurate. It’s hard, it’s hard for me to tell if you truly understand this or if this is a leverage scenario where you think that potentially cutting something so wildly– so widely used and needed in town could be the key to getting a massive override to pass. Which smart money would bet it wouldn’t based on public sentiment on bundled, general overrides. Second point, I point out that the options floated for overrides were in a bundle form with several override items in each scenario. As you remember, since you all publicly stated you supported the article, last year town meeting Article Fifty passed with overwhelming support. The article reads, “Placement of Prop two and a half on

10:57 ballot to see whether the town will vote to advise the select board to present any Proposition two and a half tax override articles to the voters on the ballot as single items corresponding to the article as presented at town meeting or take any other action relative thereto. Sponsored by John Prinval and others.” Again, this overwhelmingly passed at town meeting, and many, including myself, think this is an incredibly important article. In less than one year after it passed, there is now discussion about proposing a general override which goes directly against this popular article by bundling all the override items into one override. Yes, the article wasn’t binding, but it’s crystal clear that by defying the spirit of this, you are blatantly disregarding the wishes of the

11:44 Marblehead residents. I’ve heard the intention of the article twisted by this board by saying, “Well, it’s just how it’s presented at town meeting, so it’s fine to bundle so long as you present it that way.” That’s not true. Just in case there’s any question about the intention of the article, I’d like to point out a portion of the Q&A between the Marblehead Current and the author of the article, John Prinval. Question from The Current: What prompted you to file your petition?Answer. The petition is about giving voters more control. It ensures they can approve override expenditures they support without having to accept others they oppose. I’ll reiterate that I don’t think curbside trash and recycling should be included in any override scenario. You’re playing with fire, and if you– if we lose this service, trust

12:32 me, people won’t forget, and you’ll forever be marred by this decision. But aside from that, using trash and recycling as leverage to pass an override is dishonest and goes directly against the article the public, and supposedly you, supported last town meeting. I realize you have hard decisions to make, but I’ve– I’d advise reconsidering what cuts you’d make, as well as adding each item to its own override to respect the clear wishes of the Marlton residents. Thanks. Thank you, Mr. McMahon. Anyone else? Hi. Lee Blair, Marlton current, West Portland. Um, I’ve reached out to, I think, pretty much all of you, and, and the visions or folks in the schools. There’s definitely a narrative in the town right now that scare tactics are being employed to, bring people out

13:21 and, and pressure them in passing a tax increase and an override. Um, I would, I think it’s– like, I would ima– I would, suggest that you guys address that. Um, if not to me, then, then perhaps here. Thank you. Thank you.

13:45 Sarah Bass, Forty-Six Beach Street. Um, to the point that people seemed somewhat surprised or unaware that we were heading here, there’s few things I find more disingenuous. In two thousand nineteen, when Jason Silva first came on, he held a select board meeting at the high school, which is, as you know, very, very unusual. You guys don’t like to leave your big table in this room. It was at the high school to allow for more people. In that meeting, Jason Silva showed a chart of when we fell off the financial cliff. Everyone was aware of it. Moses, you were on the board then. Aaron, you were attending these meetings with me.

14:31 Jim, you were right there in the audience too. Dan, you might have a past year, I’m not sure. But everyone knew. Then John McCain came back. We talked about the financial cliff again. I have sat through so many panicked, pearl-clutching state of the towns where everyone is shocked we’re here. No one should be shocked. This has been a steadfast march right off the cliff for seven-plus years. The fact that we spend time making empty promises, we’re gonna get better practices in this way, we’re gonna do– we’re gonna start in July. The amount of times I’ve heard people sitting at this table say, “We’re gonna start in July. In July. We’re gonna start in the summer.

15:17 We’re gonna get our act together, get all of our information out there to the public so they know what it’s funding.” We are eight weeks out, and you’re still chasing your tails. Nothing has changed. We were– it was a big push to flip the select board. We were gonna find a new way. It was musical chairs, quite frankly. Nothing has changed. You knew this was coming, and here we are. Then we ta- And, and the fact that you brought up the library last week, I mean, I have my own issues with going against access, people access to education and the internet and computers how that really truly is the final coffin in nailing the coffin to the haves and the have-nots and the pay-to-play mentality. No longer can children that might not have

16:04 limitless access to buying books get that. Ne-not– Never, no more can someone who’s out of work and had to let their internet go get to the library and apply to a job. We’ll put that aside. You just put at risk every future debt exclusion override. Everyone– I mean, we love our AAA bond rating. One of the key features to the AAA bond rating you all know is the fact that this town repeatedly will typically pass a debt exclusion override. Well, about two and a half are a little bit harder we know. They will, they will take on, if it’s sold properly with the right amount of information, a debt exclusion. We have had this building open for a year, and you’re pulling the carpet. I mean, anything you might put on the table moving forward for a debt exclusion, even if you pull back the library now, you’ve given the marching orders

16:51 to anybody that wants to oppose it. You have put a threat, put a threat on future debt exclusions, and quite frankly, that will affect our bond ratings. On top of that, we– I, I brought up at the Bingham meeting, meeting last Monday, I brought up again, the meeting or yeah, the meeting last Wednesday, that the insurance for associate, we have a bylaw that says anybody that needs, that hasn’t their salary covered by a revolving fund, the insurance needs to go in it. You know, at the time, the– I, I got a lot of pushback on Monday night. Turned out I was right. I read the bylaws. You made the calls. Those people that for their benefits were not in were rolled in. We– I really am hoping it’s on here because that’s not

17:37 small money. When the average benefit of insurance to the average employee, I’m gonna guess, is a little north of twenty, from what I’ve seen, twenty thousand. You put ten people where they should be in the revolving funds. Where’s that money showing up? Is that back in the budget to the– of the departments? If, you know, I’m just gonna randomly– SCGE. If, if, if her– if park and rec had moved it into there, do they see that additional forty in there if the schools moved eighty thousand in? If– Where is that money? It’s– It better be showing up somewhere, whether it’s a lower line item for insurance or not. If you don’t give people accurate informationI’ve never seen a line item budget come out of this, this board, ever.

18:22 The school’s been doing it now for four years. And, and yet we have a member of your board that, that continually questions the, the validity of the school budget. I would love to see line item budget with the expenditures to date the last three, four years. Not rolled up, but the line item budget.

18:44 And furthermore, to what Lee said, it’s not often that I’m echoing Lee, and everybody knows this. But, you know, all of the cuts you, you identified were citizen-facing. That was no accident. I’ve been behind the iron curtain enough times to know how these conversations happen. It didn’t work in twenty twenty-three when freshman sports were threatened. It’s, it’s the wrong way to go. You have a very intelligent electorate. Give them the real information, and have the conversations with them. But these scare tactics are only gonna hurt our town, and only gonna hurt future availability to get trust in our budgets. Thank you, Michelle. Anybody like– else would like to comment?

19:30 I don’t see anybody. Okay. All right, with that, we will close public comment. We will move on to town administrator update. Mr. Kuser. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, I will try to quickly run through. I have a number, number of items on the update. I actually have brought forth the items from the last meeting that, that weren’t covered, ‘cause I like to not only update the board, but, the general public. Uh, one, Marblehead Shipyard Resi-Resilience Improvement Project. Uh, good news, we have received, the Army Corps of Engineers’, general permit, which is,

20:18 easier said than done, of getting that permit. Thank you for the great work of a whole team of people, our community development funding team leading the charge on that, working with our partners and consultants to, to get that done. We are now, working with MassDEP for the Chapter ninety-one license, and we are still waiting on word on getting the Federal Port Infrastructure Development Program grant, which,

20:48 we’re hoping to get a state grant that pays a major portion of the town’s contribution to a federal grant to do, major, harbor resilience work. Next, good news, we applied for the Brown School EV charging project to put, EV charging stations at the Brown School. Great idea. Um, we’ve been notified that our fifty-thousand-dollar request is rejected because of our non-compliance with Section three-A MBTA zoning. So we’ve added that to our list of, of denials of grants. Um, speaking of three-A, the planning board held a public hearing last night. Um,

21:36 I, I didn’t get an update as to, how, how things were turning out in the conversation, but, it was last night, so we’ll get, we’ll, we’ll get some follow-up on that. Uh, Coffman School community engagement. Um, again, we’re looking at an engagement meeting on March eighteenth, six o’clock, right here in Abbott Hall, facilitated by the UConn TAB program. That-that’s the, University of Connecticut group that’s helping to facilitate the process for visioning and, narrowing down, the options as to what is the best option for the Coffman School. Uh, next, Five Corners intersection redesign project. Still moving forward. We’re working with Apex Engineers consultants.

22:22 Um, and the plan is to get to fifty percent, design by October twenty twenty-six. So this is to redo, look at design work for the Five Corners intersection, in part to make it, more traffic and pedestrian friendly. In addition, and it actually was mentioned earlier, to hopefully have a design that creates more economic opportunity for the businesses in that area. Uh, designing it so we have some more outdoor public space, that allows for, you know, attracting people into Marblehead and engaging them and keeping them here, for economic, purposes. Uh, finally, facilities and capital

23:10 improvements. Um, great work. Um, our superintendent of buildings, who’s also our building commissioner, Steve Cummings. Uh, Pickett House. Um, the Pickett House has twenty new windows, energy efficient, which will help in increase, controlling our heating costs in that facility. So that is done. Uh, Franklin Street Fire Station upgrades. Uh, the window replacement there is now complete with thirteen new windows installed. And again, this has worked to, improve protecting the envelope of the building as well as heating efficiencies during the winter months. And in the being, i-installed in that same building is a hot water

23:55 heating system. Um, and that’s fully installed and operational. So again, we are doing the things, necessary to maintain our buildings, to make them more energy efficient, to protect, the exterior of the buildings, thanks to the work of our building folks and others involved. And the, the chief’s very much a part of the Franklin Street project. With that, that concludes my update Thank you, Thatcher. So next, we’re gonna move on to budget review, override discussion. We’re gonna break this down in a couple parts. Uh, Thatcher, I know you’re gonna talk about props and t- Ed? Yeah. Again, would, through the chair, would we be able to ask the administrator a question? About what he just talked about?

24:41 Yeah. Of course. Sorry about that. A little bit about potholes. Potholes. Yes. Thank you for reminding me. So, I’ll be right, Amy McCue, to… She’s on standby to give us an update. Thank you. It is spring. It is pothole season. Yes. Yeah. When Amy waves like this, I- Yeah. We know there’s something. Um, I’m gonna start at the beginning of winter operations ‘cause I’ve had a lot of questions about all winter to now. So, quick, just snowplowing. Our first line of defense is pre-treating. That’s what we did– we’re lucky enough to do in the last two years. You can pretty much salt away the storm if there’s only about two inches coming down. So, that’s what you have seen as our snow operations the previous two years.

25:28 So that’s generally eleven people, nine vehicles, and a loader. It runs from two to six hours every time you go for an operation. Um, sometimes it’s just hills and spot treating, sometimes it’s the whole town, and then we always do the whole town after the snow subsides too. So that’s added on to everything. Um, plowing operations. So plowing operations start when we think there’s gonna be three– or we start planning for it at three inches of snow that’s been forecasted. Uh, we head out when there’s about three inches on the ground. Um, sometimes if you think you’re only gonna get three inches, you can go out and salt and hope that it goes away, and you just have that minimal amount of people. But when you move into your snow operations, you have, approximately forty-five pieces of equipment on the road. You have forty-seven to fifty-three employees in.

26:13 You have thirty vehicles from the DPW, two from Board of Health, three vehicles from the cemetery, five vehicles from Park and Rec, five vehicles and a backhoe from Water and Sewer, and I’m sorry, you also have a loader from Board of Health. Um, we also take that many, employees from all of those departments, plus extra who fill in the, extra equipment up at the DPW. All of these operations are done with town employees. Um, this year we had some really long events. We had one that was over thirty-hour continuous hours of plowing. We had one that was over forty continuous hours of plowing. Uh, we reached our capacity, which we generally will do here. We reached it in twenty twenty-two. Uh, twelve inches of snow in one storm can hit you hard, and then another one later that might… Or twenty inches and then twelve.

27:01 Um, we definitely hit our capacity more than once. We, worked with Conservation and the Select Board, and everyone to be able to get that snow removal so that we can dispose of snow in the harbor. It is legal. It does happen. We dispose of snow in the harbor, so now we’re gonna talk about snow removal. We have up to fifty vehicles that are involved in snow re-removal. We have forty to fifty employees that are involved in snow removal. The majority of the work is done from midnight to seven AM because that is when we basically have to close the street and let these pieces of equipment go every direction they need to go, putting a one-way road down the center, essentially not allowing any traffic to come by. So we do it from midnight to seven AM. We use the, the best place for water exchange is the landing, so that happens there. Um, snow removal generally will mean that

27:48 all Marblehead employees are working eighteen and a half hour days. Uh, you know that we do consecutive three nights, so they’re going home for a short amount of time. They’re coming back to do another eighteen and a half. Most of these, you’re not doing snow removal for the whole eighteen and a half, but these employees are going back and doing their scheduled work for Water, Sewer, Board of Health, Cemetery, everything that has to happen, and the DPW is doing extra work. They’re either continuous snow removal or they’re doing other, scheduled work that they need to get done during the day. Um, so that’s where we are. We’ve, a couple of numbers. We’ve used, approximately fifteen hundred tons of salt this year. Um, we continue to, order salt, and we will continue to salt. We will still have some salting events, I’m pretty sure, between now and when spring really shows up. Um,

28:37 had this big conversation with the town engineer about potholes. I think potholes are a spring thing. She thinks they’re a winter, and they should still be part of winter operations because they really are exaggerated by the freeze-thaw, the water that’s gotten through the cracks. The, you know, certain, areas that you might have, trenches that have a side that will get a pothole. Um, then the plows, you know, the excessive use that happens over the winter. So potholes, I guess, are winter operations. She won the argument. Um, so our, our potholes are, are cyclical also. Our first calls came in around January twelfth. We had eight calls between January twelfth and January twenty-third. Those potholes were all taken care of. It– there’s a few ways to take care of potholes. One is to use cold patch that you buy in a bag. It’s expensive.

29:23 It doesn’t work real well, but it does get you to the reactive, “I need to get this pothole fixed right now because I can’t use all the other options.” Your best option is to go with asphalt. Um, asphalt plants close in the winter, so that’s one problem. The next is you can bring asphalt home in a truck. You can put, like, six tons of asphalt in the truck. By the time it gets here in the winter, it’s cold, so you’re end up throwing away two or three. We don’t wanna do it that way. The next is a hot box. So we do currently have a three-ton hot box. It was purchased in two thousand fifteen. It has seen a lot of use. Um, it does require a lot of maintenance. Obviously, our mechanics don’t work on hot boxes every day, so when it comes in, it does require maintenance. Our hot box, unfortunately, went in for maintenance around January twentieth. January twenty-second,

30:09 we had our first snow start and a large storm. We had, we had done snow operations prior to that, but that was the big one. Everything stops when snow operations happen, right? You don’t do anything except snow operations. They become the critical piece. That’s what we do. Hot box sits in the corner ‘cause we are fixing equipment every time. During snow operations, our three mechanics come in, and they are working throughout the night with everyone, just keeping everything running, and then they continue on to try to make the bigger things that broke down work. So-Since January 23rd, we have, received 102 areas that we have potholes. Um, we have addressed just plowing up until that point. We have gone out with, cold patch to do some of the major things. Uh, that was probably in the last week

30:58 since, you know, some removal slowed down, obviously plowing stopped. We’ve, we’ve now switched to that. Um, through the share, the share fair- fair share grant, which comes through Chapter 90, it’s basically Chapter 90 funding that at the end of a winter they give the town to decide how they’re gonna use it. We have been, holding ours for certain things. I was hoping to use it as a trench program. Um, but we have just purchased a four-ton, hot box. Should be delivered by the end of this week. Um, it has a dual burner, so now we’re gonna be able to go buy the four tons, bring it back, start putting it on the street. If we don’t use all four tons, we used to have to waste it because it wouldn’t reheat it. This burner, now we have a dual burner, so that’s gonna reheat it. It will keep it warm for, like, 17 hours, but when you stop and you unplug

31:46 it, this can now get hot and can be reheated. So, it’s gonna give us extended time. It, is gonna allow us to bring our compactor with us and charge it while it’s out there. Um, it’s gonna have an emulsifying tank. Those, that, those are gonna be put on later since we’re taking the strip down model right now and sending it back, but that way we’ll be able to put emuls- you know, emulsification around the side, which makes your patch stay longer. So that’s the good news, that it’s on the way. So my answer to all the pothole questions is, we will hopefully have our old, hot box fixed so then we’ll be able to send two crews out. But next week we should have the nice shiny new one out. The crew will be out. We will be going to, pick up asphalt every day, and that’s what their focus will be.

32:34 Um, a lot of these streets need paving so, you know, they’re gonna be just patched until that point, but. If people wanna report potholes, they call or do they go online? They do both. Okay. Uh, online is the best way to do it because then we have the written record and if, you know, you get five calls, but, they do keep a log, so I know how many there are. We do send spot people out to go see where they are. There are a lot of large potholes everywhere. I actually drove out of Marblehead to check. They’re, they’re everywhere, not just in Marblehead. Um, you know, I appreciate people slowing down, being careful around the potholes. Not saying that the pothole… You know, I hit a pothole every day, okay, so you know it’s there. So, you know, we do, we do take all these, messages and we are going out. The larger ones, we did go out with cold patch this

33:22 week ‘cause we didn’t have the, hot box option, but- So, so you started cold patch this week and you hope to start- This week, but we hope to, really start with our hot box next week. I’m just hoping it shows up. It’s supposed to be here by Friday. So, you know, we’ll have training on it and we will be out. So if anybody wants to call, they will add it to the list. A lot of times it probably is already on the list. Great. I didn’t drive down the street that had one that wasn’t on the list today. Amy, right up there, you and the chief worked on the MEMA- Oh, yep … disaster report in- So for one of our storms, it, a couple places in Massachusetts hit historic records.

34:11 It did, was a blizzard. They did open it up. We had to, the chief came with me with the, came to me with the information that we had to provide to, the state. Every county has to hit a certain number, so you need every community really to put these numbers in. It’s your first pass, it’s your first guesst- your first estimate. Um, we had some great records with the … We had great records, all of us. Everybody had 15 pages of records. Um, for the heavy lift, which the town engineer did, she coordinated all these records onto one spreadsheet, so we were able to estimate. Um, we put in, 300 and- 362 … 62. 97. 36,000. Okay.

34:56 Little shy of 4,000. 332 was just the DPW number, and then we had emergency response and, you put in for a whole bunch of things. Hopefully Essex County will reach their, goal and then every other county will reach it. The next hurdle we’ll have to go through is Essex County didn’t get historic numbers, so I don’t know how the state will deal with that. You know, if we’ll get 100% even for its historic numbers or less ‘cause of that or nothing. It’s a point that I wanted to point out. Extraordinary level of effort, these two and the other department heads, to document, the costs and submit it for reimbursement. The challenge is Marblehead did an outstanding job taking every opportunity to recover any dollars that it can,

35:41 but because MEMA’s system works on a county-based system, it’s the total cost or value of something like $13 million of damages have to be reported from Essex County. So despite their efforts- It’s gonna get redistributed. Yeah. And, and so our, our effort is they’re doing a great job. We need to convince all of our surrounding communities to put as much effort as they have so that collectively we can hit that threshold which makes us eligible for, for funding to come in. Yeah. But I, I just wanna, I just wanna point out- So thank you … the effort that was taken on this. Thank you both. And every time we do it, we find something else we should be doing a little better. So UNIS will hopefully help us in the future, but we have to, you know, figure out

36:26 some accounts so that they all come out as you can just hit the button and have this as the emergency number rather than manually doing it. You know, pulling everybody’s budget out. It was, it was tough. Yes. Um- So I don’t know. I don’t want to put you on the spot, and maybe this is just a question to hang out there. It’s a very unusual year with the snow, accumulation being historic, and it’s been a long time since we’ve seen it. I guess I’m wondering, you know, is it something that we should consider, contracting for some backup support in a year like this where, you know, eighteen hours a day is a thousand overtime, plus the wear and tear on our vehicles. Mm-hmm. Which I know it’s a, it’s a heavy wear and tear on our vehicles. And I, I– recognizing that there’s implications with collective bargaining

37:12 agreements that are in place currently, but I think, you know, I guess it’s just something that maybe after this year we could look at, in terms of having enough, kind of an outside, outsource for some backup situation where these years– in a situation like this year. Right. So the hurdles you have with that are a lot of those contracts if you’re not willing to give them all your plowing. Okay. And the numbers I’ve seen from other towns that are outsourcing are big. Um, so that’s– so your numbers might go up, but the other part is you’d i-in a critical situation when you need them, they are probably already committed all their assets somewhere else. Mm-hmm. You know, so to pay for them to just sit and wait for you is not gonna be the best way to use your dollar either. So,

38:01 we- And is there– do you have a, a sense of how many DPW– how many municipalities are outsourcing plowing versus in-housing it? No. That’d be interesting. There’s a mix too, so it’s- Yeah … kinda hard. I mean- The backup situ- some would use employ like a backup situation in a situation like this where we really, this is– we’ve had a lot of overtime and a lot of, of footman issues, so. Right. I’d still think dollar for dollar we are doing better. Great. Thank you. Thank you for your hard work. Thank you. And get all your crew. All right. Thank you. All right, now we’re gonna move on to, fiscal twenty-seven budget review and override discussion that I’d like to run this. And Sasha is going to go through prop two and a half, I think, to just give us a refresher, and especially for the

38:47 public. And then I’m going to give a summary of our process to sort of basically recap of last week. Mm-hmm. And then, I think that as a board, we need to discuss the two scenarios that were presented last week, and then discuss override scenarios. So Sasha, with that, if you wanna lead us off. Sure. Thank you. So my intent is to kind of give an ov– overview of overrides. So that’s sort of the next phase of the conversation that follows after the budget discussions and deliberations. So, and I have provided a memorandum to the board, which will be available to the public, also. Um, so prop two and a half override options. So, to start

39:33 with, tax levy. The term levy means that is the total amount of property taxes collected by a city or town. The tax levy, the ways, generally speaking, or three ways to increase the levy from one year to the next is one, is the automatic two and a half percent increase. Um, and what that is, is taking your total levy from the year prior. In Marblehead’s case, it’s about seventy-nine million. Multiplying that or increasing by two and a half percent, which in Marblehead’s case, generated around two point two million dollars new money for, for the next following

40:18 year. On top of that, you will add your new growth revenues. Uh, in Marblehead’s case, it’s come in slightly under three hundred thousand this year. Uh, and as I have said since I’ve been here, it has been a very much a focus area of trying to push and grow and capture all of the new growth revenues that we can. Um, there were the good times of lots of construction and building and, and, and it seemed to me that we were not very good at capturing all of what should be out there. That’s why we’ve worked to, one, beef up the inspections department area because they’re on the front line out there doing the permits for any construction that’s going on.

41:06 And we’ve done a lot of work at beefing up the assessor’s office and connecting the two so that any activity that’s out there that could qualify as new growth revenues, the information is flowing to where it needs to be because that’s primarily managed by the assessor’s office. So that’s two out of the three means to increase the levy. And the third is the main topic, is overrides, which is part of buff two and a half override mechanism. Um, there are, um– we use the term override, and there’s lots of conversations here at Marblehead on debt exclusions. Um, generally speaking, they’re all overrides. There are different types of overrides,

41:53 that a city or town can put on the ballot. Um, and they do different purposes. Uh, the override discussion that’s gonna primarily happen here in the next several months is referring to a general operating override. What that does is it increases, the levy by an amount, dollar amount that is put on an override and, and presumably passed, that permanently increases the levy. So as an example, if there was a two million dollar override and it successfully passed, you would increase the levy by the two million dollars. So you would have your two and a half increase, you would have your new growth

42:40 increase, and then you would have the additional, in this example, two million dollars, and that would determine your new levy.Which would be the base for the next year. So that two million dollar increase is part of the following year’s base, which again grows at two and a half percent. Um, key point there, in order for at town meeting, it is a simple majority vote at town meeting in order to put a general override question, on the ballot. It, it gets authorized at town meeting, and then the override, the, the, the specific language to override is, by the select board that makes that decision. Uh, the next example, which

43:28 is, debt exclusions, which have been used on numerous occasions in Marblehead, that is primarily used for funding large capital projects. In effect, what it does is it raises the tax levy temporarily in order to pay for the borrowing of any capital project. So if you’re doing a high school project that was approved, and it has a twenty-five-year bond on it, for twenty-five years the taxes will increase at the exact dollar amount of whatever that debt service is. It’ll carry for the twenty-five years of that bond. When that borrowing is mature and is paid

44:14 off, that authorization of that additional levy goes back down. Um, it comes off the, the authorization, so your taxes relatively would come down. Um, next is, there is a capital expenditure exclusion. It works similarly to the debt exclusion, only you use it for capital projects in which you are not borrowing. So it allows for a temporary increase in the levy, to pay for capital, one-time expenses. When you’ve paid for it, then it drops back down. There is also the option of an underride, not recommended in any case that I’m aware of, in which rather than increasing the levy, you can

45:03 decrease the levy. The example, in Amesbury, we were successful in creating levy capacity, meaning because our new growth revenues became so strong, we did not need to increase the full two and a half increase of prop two and a half. We’re, we’re automatically authorized the increase. In Marblehead, we need to take the increase, and therefore every year take that two and a half. But in the case of Amesbury, the new growth revenues were so good, we did not increase the full two and a half over a number of years. So in effect is our authorization is at one level, but what we were actually collecting was about two million dollars less.

45:49 Some citizens proposed, let’s underride and take that capacity off, and, and the voters wisely did not do that. It’s a-it’s another form of reserve. Um, I, I think it’s rare. Um, so generally speaking, those are the major categories of, of, of overrides. There is a newer category that’s created sort of a, deviation of a temporary, expenditure, which is particular to funding stabilization funds. And I would suggest maybe not for this year, but looking forward in which you can do, it’s a one-time vote to increase the

46:35 levy to fund stabilization, and then every year thereafter, it’s a decision of the select board, here in Marblehead, as to whether to fund it that year. Or if you decide not to fund the stabilization, then as I understand it, the authorized, authorization would, would drop. But if you decide another year to fund it, the auth– once the authorization is there, you have that capacity to repeat it. So I, I would suggest we take a look in future years. Um, so the next category of information is, how general overrides work. So I’m gonna s- I’m gonna just zoom in on the general operating override,

47:22 overrides because that’s the main topic here. Um, there are multiple ways in which we can structure overrides. Um, the most common use, override is the single question override. It’s the simplest format. It, asks voters to approve one override amount. There’s just one dollar amount, and it’s a yes or no to approve. Um, if the yeses prevail, you get the override. If the, if the no’s prevail, it fails. So it’s an all or nothing approach. Again, that’s been prominent for, for many, many years. Next category is a menu

48:07 or multiple question option. And in that case, it allows voters to have a menu of options. So for example, if, if there was an override and it was gonna fund different departments, you can have the question where the voters can pick and choose what departments they would choose to fund and which ones they would choose not to fund by voting no. Uh, the end result, your override, your levy would increase by the total accumulation of all the yeses that would pass. Um, so that gives, voters, options, flexibility to pick and choose.Um, and you would use

48:53 that when there are, a number of different categories, that, that you wanna put on the ballot. The next category is a tiered or a pyramid override. So again, this one would be multiple questions. It’s different than the menu option. That the tiered option would be, for example, if, an override is proposed with three different tiers, tier one, and I’ll provide some examples of some communities, tier one could be, restore basic services at a certain dollar value. Tier two could be that amount plus, adding some items of,

49:41 to make improvements or to address some unmet needs, and that would have a higher dollar amount. And then you can have a third option that is a, you know, much bigger, adds in, additional items at a higher dollar amount. When the voters go in to vote and choose, they can pick and choose, they can vote yes or no on any combination, of, of those options. Any of those options that receive a majority of yes passes, the highest dollar value item that receives a yes vote is the amount of levy increase that is approved. So if you had a two million,

50:27 four million, six million option, it is possible that the two million passes, the four million fails, and the six million option passes, your increase is six million. Uh, another variable would be the two million passes, the four million passes, the six million fails, the four million option is what is increased. Um, so that allows voters, to be able to make decision as to how much of a financial commitment they would like to improve. Um, the factors for, consideration of these, whether the community prefers a simple yes, no decision, how clearly the tax impact can be explained to

51:14 residents. One of the, one of the challenges to the menu option of voting is it won’t be clear to voters in the booth as to how much total dollars they may or may not be committing to, of, of increases. Uh, it’ll just be the, the, the results of the, the total of votes. Um, whether funding priorities are interconnected or separate, that’s the difference between your options and your tiers. Um, your tiers would be a, similar but succession of, of, of, increases, whether you wanna provide flexibility. Um,

51:59 and, anyway, so those are, those are the major considerations as to what is the best approach. Some municipal examples to provide, the city of Melrose, approached a multi-tier. Let me say predominantly have been single number overrides for many years. Recently, in the last couple election cycles, we are seeing more and more communities go to a multi-tier options. Um, and those seem to have been more successful, than the single. I don’t know if it’s just because the, the, the demands of our times have passing or because of the options provided are passing. But so Melrose had a three-tier

52:46 override. They had a nine point three million option, eleven point nine million option, and a thirteen point five million dollar option. All three succeeded in having a majority yes, so that meant the thirteen point five million option was what was approved. Uh, the takeaway on that is, it doesn’t matter which option received the m- the most yes votes. All that matters is that it meets a majority yes, and therefore the, the, the, the highest dollar value is what’s accepted. So obviously in Melrose, the lowest dollar value, we see far more yes votes

53:31 than the top option, but the top option received enough, enough yes votes to be the majority. Uh, Stoneham did a two-year override, operating override, a twelve point five million and nine point three, and the twelve point five, and they advertised it as the highest will prevail, the twelve point five million prevailed. The town of Orleans did a multi-question override, which also included a multi-year. So when you set an override, you’re, you’re setting, the board has to set the dollar value, the purpose of the override, and what fiscal year it takes effect. So in the multi-menu option, seems that what Orleans did

54:20 is they provided options of approving for current fiscal year, next fiscal year, another fiscal year. So they, they, they, they structured it that if you vote yes, that that particular override would take effect in the particular fiscal year that they had presented. Do you know what the success was of that? Um, I don’t. Okay. Let’s see. Uh, no, I didn’t look that one up. Can- Yeah, go ahead. Can I just clarify? Yeah. Just so people understand, when people talk about a multi-year override, what that means is instead of drawingAll of the override amount on the year one, you take it as you need it. So instead of just having an option of an override that is,

55:06 say, five million dollars, right? It’s structured over– You’re spreading that cost across three years. You’re not taking it all at once. So people find that helpful, and especially if you get to the second year and you, you know, turns out, you know, you realize no free cash, you don’t need as much as you thought, you know, the actual override that you voted for, you don’t have to, you don’t have to raise the levy that year for the full amount. So basically, instead of an override that is five million dollars year one, it’s a five million dollar override across three years. So you’re taking far– you’re taking it as you need it. It’s not that we’re doubling– It’s not that we’re adding cumulatively onto, onto

55:53 num– piling up numbers of, of money. So, so that is accurate. A little different than the Orleans case where they specify. Mm. So again, an override is an authorization for raising the levy. The levy doesn’t get raised unless you set the expenditures for it. So in the example you’re giving, it is possible, say, Marblehead, to approve a five million dollar override, so it’s authorized to increase by five million, but can choose as it builds its budget that in the first year, it’s only gonna raise two million of the five, and then the following year, it’s gonna use another million or two of that five, and then in the third year, the final amount of five.

56:40 So it’s similar to what was described, probably even more f– what you’re describing is more flexible as far as budget building. But the, I think the key takeaway is, it is possible to have an override number that gets voted and passed, and not utilize the entirety of that authorization, but rather use it as part of a phased plan that’s laid out over multiple years. And I think that’s a key. Yeah, I’m curious if the Orleans approach though gives the security for those who don’t want, you know, would question that you have that ability to raise it, then you might do it earlier, right? Even if we say that, I wonder if Orleans basically pegs it per year, and it

57:27 acts as almost as, as a ceiling to something to think about. Something I hadn’t heard about the Orleans. Yeah. Well, let’s chase that and get done. Yeah. The final example is Amesbury. Put all its- Of course we had to do shock Amesbury. It put all its numbers on one, all its chips on one number and spun the dial and lost. So th-those, so in conclusion, hopefully it provides some context for, for, for the conversation. Key, the key is we’re talking about the general override, that there are different ways to construct it, and there are different methods that can be used as far as trying to solve a single year financial challenge or a multi-year challenge. Uh, we have– there are ways that we can approach, to make this,

58:16 you know, get the authorization but, but, but make it work for this community as far as how it gets implemented. Great. With that. Thank you. Uh, I guess we’ll move on to the presentation summary of the budget, if you have that there. Um, a lot of this is repetitive, and we can go through it quickly. I think we– I’ve had a lot of questions or comments about the scare tactic. That scenario A was a scare tactic last week. And I wanted– And what I felt might be helpful to the public as well as to our board is to just sort of review how we got to each of these places, where we started, and the sort of the trigger points to make those decisions at different levels. And as soon as it’s up, I will do that. Yeah. Yeah. So

59:02 there we go. So there’s, there’s summary and blah. So where did we start? After the State of the Town, we had a seven million dollar deficit townwide. Uh, five million of that we were carrying on the municipal side and two million on the school side. After that, sort of breakdown from last week of the scenario A, how we got there. So that five million dollars up top is representing the fifty-three million dollar number. I’m not gonna go through each one of these individually. We can print these out. But basically, the process we went through is through department meetings that Thatcher and Alicia had. Throughout February, there were some adjustments made. Um, some actually came down. You’ll see that under general government. Some of that was healthcare. There were some other things in there as well. Um, and then cuts from the budget that we, we t-thought about that we would

59:50 be cutting and not bringing back. And then you also have the cuts from the budget that in theory would be an override. There was a final adjustment done to get us down to that forty-seven million dollar number, which was also through, the concept of when you do cut people, you have unemployment costs as well. So we had to add that back to get into there. So again, we can get into the details line by line. I just wanna go through our process. So when we looked at this, on the next slide, you’ll see this is the history that we had in the chart last week, and numerically. However, this we showed graphically to show what our, the total town, employees by year. So this is just the numbers that are paid out of the general fund. This is not taking numbers out of enterprise fund. This is num– the, the actual employees out of the general fund.

1:00:37 You can see our average is actually about a hundred and ninety-two. We’re a little below that last year. When we were faced with this challenge of, of the budget with five million dollars, that ended up with approximately, actually specifically fifty-six town employees. That’s a thirty percent decrease in our, in our workforce. So when we looked at that, personally, you know, this was not something that was meant as a scare tactic. This was meant to show what we would have to do when we considered this and why we were considering the other steps.So, you know, in that situation on the next slide, you will see if we were considering this, we have some pretty serious and drastic scenarios that we were looking at. Some full shutdowns with some departments, loss of a police officer, a vacant firefighter position, a full

1:01:24 shutdown of the community development except for a town planner, as well as the cemetery. So we’re not– Listen, I– When I look at these, this is not something I personally, again, speak to the whole board was considering. It was showing what the effects of not making any other adjustments were. Uh, next slide. And this is talking about the considering the reduction of the school funding of one point five million. Just basically recapping, we– for those who wanna see the specifics about that, tomorrow night, finance committee will be presenting, and I will be sitting there for support. Uh, we’re presenting to the school committee the exact breakdowns of how that worked so that you can see exactly what was looked at, the exact numbers. I’m not gonna get into it tonight because I’m gonna let the, the

1:02:11 professionals and the ones who know it well. But the general concept here is that on the, on the town side, health insurance, em-employee benefits, pension, OPEB, are being carried budget on the town side. And that, you know, we know in fiscal year twenty-seven that this is a huge increase. It’s a dramatic increase, and so the benefit of, of the cost increase were allocated proportionally based on the number of town versus school employees. What we did is we looked at twenty twenty-six, and we looked at the actual breakdowns in each section. Actual active participants in healthcare, retirees, pension, assigned a percentage to that, and we’ll go through all that, and looked at what those increases were. So we pegged their number in twenty twenty-six, and they share

1:02:58 proportionally going into the, the increases to twenty-seven. So that’s where that one point five number came. Listen, there might be some, some tweaks that we have to make on these, but this, this is the general concept. And when we do this, if there– if as we go through this budget process over the next couple weeks, and we find some more numbers, if there are savings in these specific areas, those savings will be going back to the school too, okay, in this budget. I think Terry brought up last week if, if we have savings throughout the year, obviously we can’t go back to town meeting and give it to them this year. That’ll be allocated the following year. But if it is during budget season, we will be giving that back. And in the future year, the schools will participate on a higher revenue basis of new revenue that’s available. So we’ll go through that a little bit more

1:03:45 tomorrow night, but that’s sort of a high-level overview of that. So when we looked at doing this one point, five million dollar, reduction to schools, this is sort of a breakdown, high level. Again, this is not line item by line item. We will get into that, but we were able to bring back a net add back of two hundred and four thousand dollars in general government, a million dollars to culture and recreation, and just under three hundred thousand in public works and facilities. I think the next slide here would show that by doing that, we now lose about forty town employees under this scenario with just taking a million and a half dollars out of the school’s allocation. Still a twenty-one percent increase– decrease. You know, and that number we’re basing, I think it was off of one

1:04:31 ninety, is where we’re looking at full-time employees. So again, so we looked at this, and the, the concept of losing twenty-one percent, basically one out of every five employees across this whole town was something that again is devastating. This is what brought us to looking at the trash. So these are considerations. This was not just done in a black box. We did look at other towns. So if you look across Massachusetts, this is from a survey in twenty twenty-four of Mass DEP. Ten percent of towns in this, in, in this state have what we have, both curbside pickup and drop-off. So we’re pretty lucky that we have both of those. I consider myself lucky to have those, especially during the strike, that we

1:05:16 have a place to bring. Um, other places have drop-off only, forty-six percent of the state, and another forty-one percent make up, curbside only, with three percent having absolutely nothing. Can you go down to the next one, please, Thatcher? So the different types of municipal waste and recycling services that exist. Um, towns that have transfer stations and d-do not provide curbside pickup, there’s a list of those towns. We’re not suggesting that. Just want, you know, just trying to highlight what we have here. And in these towns, they just either have to pay to have it taken away, or they take the trash to the town’s transfer station. Moving on. There are different sources of funding that towns have.

1:06:03 Some are a hundred percent like Marblehead is today, through property taxes. Others have annual fees. Some have pay-as-you-throw. Um, some have stickers, which is covered under that. You have access fees, and you also have per visit fees. Next one. It’s interesting to look at the sources of funding across the state as well. So the ones that have a combination of the two, which are property taxes and pay-as-you-throw or some kind of a smart revenue, is twenty-six percent. Property taxes only are twenty percent. So we’re in that, in that twenty percent right now, and then it goes down through the rest of them. Property tax, annual fees, combination, you can see those numbers tend to decrease as you go down.

1:06:49 Will you go back one second? Yeah. Sorry. Just– Can you go back one? It’s just the bottom. Forty-seven percent of the towns on that page where– Okay. Yep. You got it? Mm.

1:07:02 So here is, uh– next one, pleaseThere you go. So towns with annual fees so we did do, we some other people did this for me. They asked me not to say who they are because they’re afraid that if we do this, that all the trash in town is gonna end up on their lawn so I won’t call that person out. Um, but that there are people who charge– the towns that charge an annual fee for waste, the average annual fee is two hundred and thirty-eight dollars and seventy-four cents. Here’s your examples of towns. They range from about a hundred dollars a year up to looks like four thirty-two. Danbury recently put one in, I think it was last spring, and that’s two hundred dollars a year.

1:07:49 As was mentioned before, and there was during public comment some questions about the validity of this number. At the end of the day, the Board of Health is gonna come up with this number. Okay? These are some estimates. The Board of the Health, as, as we know, has, has purview over this. They will make– they will take– if, if, if this is put on them, as, as, as we’ve discussed, then they will make those decisions. But the cost that we have allocated, and which includes curbside trash collections, disposal, and recycling services, is a little over two million. Two million thirty-seven thousand. We’re using a number of approximately eight thousand households, and there’s your number of what it would be per month and per year. This– we have also backed out of this the town’s disposal costs as well as the schools, so that is not included in this.

1:08:36 You know, there will be some other fees, and again, it’s gonna be up to the Board of Health to decide that. Um, I personally would like to see some discounts for residents who qualify for tax exemptions currently. You know, but again, that’s up to them. If that happens, obviously some of those fees will go up, but that will be their final decision. So we thought about this, we looked at it, we’ve studied it. It’s not– it’s, you know, this was not our first choice, nor was the, the schools. This is about what this town, which I believe is running on a very bare bones budget and that limited staff of Amy still in here, but I’m sure that she would like some more people helping with plowing and doing streets and potholes. I personally cannot go back to that place where we’re looking at losing thirty

1:09:22 percent of our workforce. This next slide shows that when we added both back in the one point five million dollars we’re reducing the schools and the two million dollars from the disposal fees, where we were able to add back. Again, these are big high-level categories. We will get into the exact details, all these, and I think you actually did last week. I don’t need to repeat that. But basically across general government, public safety, human services, public works, and culture and recreation, and that gives you your net add backs on each of those. Here it shows that if we do take, which was scenario B last week, that we would end up an eleven percent decrease in workforce versus the thirty that we were talking about in scenario A, as well as, I think it was twenty something percent.

1:10:11 I’m already off my sheet here. Uh, versus twenty-one percent decrease. Still be eleven percent decrease in workforce, representing twenty and a half town workers. In this scenario, still the effects of the cuts, which we’re again back at level B. We’re gonna– In the town clerk’s office, we will have reduced service. Finance de-uh, department will lose a position. Police, depending on what happens in the department, you could lose an F– your SRO, your school resource officer. Library, as, as I, as Mr. Amberg stated last week, that the, the board, has said that they will close the library, I think it says, as of

1:10:56 December first. With these cuts, Rec and Park, you would have no public trash pickup at, at all the town barrels. I was told by Jamie it’s a hundred and fifty-seven barrels. She’s down at each one. Across town, we would lose a town custodian, which would reduce upkeep at– The town custodian does Abbott Hall and Winter Road, and we might have less availability for meetings. It’s, Bruce who sets this all up. Uh, DPW, you would, you would have some rail trail maintenance at risk. A lot of that depends on if they have to take down a big tree or not, but you would lose some clear cutting and tree removal, and sixty thousand dollars removed from the asphalt for potholes. Uh, Council on Aging would have some reduced services as well, and community development, it’s gonna limit the grant writing. It’s gonna re-limit our money for public spaces and coordination of

1:11:44 projects. In summary, if you look at the three different scenarios on the last one, the red was scenario A, the blue was the reduction with the schools, and your yellow, which is schools and trash. So you can see in considering this, you know, bringing up the, the number of layoffs we have to do and where we end up. So I want to start with this for discussion among the board about the different scenarios that were presented last week. I think it’s important that we discuss which way we wanna tell the finance committee to go. Um, I know that they have meetings coming up, and so that they can have some productive meetings, I’d like to, to open it up to that and, you know, thinking about these issues that we just

1:12:33 discussed. Don’t know if anyone wants to. I, I, ideally, at the end of the tonight, and maybe we won’t end up there, depending on how everyone else feels, I would like to be able to give the finance committee direction on either A or B, not to be running two budgets. That’s my personal opinion. Might be different than others. Um, so I’d like to hear other people’s opinions on the different scenarios. Again, A was the, not taking any cuts from school or trash. I guess I’ve sort of turned it into three, but B was taking a million and a half from schools or reducing their allocation and switching over to a trash fee. Okay. Go ahead, Erin. Yeah. Um, can I just say thank you, Mr. Chairman, for walking through that.

1:13:19 I hope that that clarifies for folks a little bit better how we’ve arrived at that, that… I mean, I would just like to say that this is, this is agonizing, and I think, the idea that this, these are– we are employing scare tactics or- or- or cherry-picking a strategic thing ‘cause we w- have an a- a- agenda about what we want, I mean, and it couldn’t be farther from the truth. These are not fabricated numbers. These have been, these are… This deficit has been coming. We’ve been projecting this. Every FinCom report at the last three town meetings has been talking about this cliff, and we’re here, and there’s only so many buckets and levers we can pull to get seven

1:14:07 million dollars. We have already, and I would like to say also, that we’ve already really, really leaned into and leaned our public safety aspect of town over level funding for four years. So, you know, that’s limited at this point in where we can go. We have really drawn down and made cuts over the last five years in these areas that, you know, include public safety and DPW. So again, limited buckets for us from which to pull. And I think I’ve asked our town administrator, we’re gonna present an organizational chart for folks to really understand that. I think there’s a misunderstanding that there are just a lot of people running around town hall. I mean, literally, it’s, as far as the select board office goes, it is Thatcher and Kyle.

1:14:53 These, these are thin operations. These are, I don’t, I don’t wanna say skeleton crews, but there’s, there’s not an excess of bodies running around Mary Alley or, or Town Hall. And so we– that’s our job to clarify that and put that out for folks to understand who’s in what department. And so you can also put in… That also will provide context on how we have to touch on some of these, you know, customer, or resident-facing services. And it’s, it’s not just that we’ve made those cuts, we’ve made a lot of other cuts. There’s admin cuts in this budget as well. So, I hope that makes that clear. I don’t like fees either, but it’s what we have to do when we make– we have to make hard choices. We, we have to make these decisions, you know, because we can’t afford

1:15:40 everything. And I don’t like personally the idea of, you know, offering curbside trash pickup in a town that is four square miles with a transfer station mandating that that’s included in the budget- budget, and if you didn’t like the cuts to the library and you didn’t like the cuts to the council aging, go… We’re gonna have to go find two more million dollars if we don’t do a fee. I mean, that’s just the reality of it. So, I mean, again, I don’t like… This is what we do in towns. I don’t like the fact that in our town, parents have to pay a fee of four thousand dollars per child to go to public kindergarten, but that’s been the, that’s been the normative fee around here for parents. Parents also pay a fee of nine hundred dollars, for example, almost a thousand dollars for their kids, for

1:16:28 one kid to do two extracurricular sports after school. This is what we do when we can’t afford everything. So I think asking for optional curbside fee-based service is on par and equitable given that we’re asking for fees in other areas across town, and given that the prospect of reducing what we already find is, you know, absolutely subpar in terms of what we think about Marblehead, reducing that by an additional two million dollars. So that’s where the trash fee comes from. That’s the rationale, that’s the thought process. I, am just to be simplify, obviously in favor of moving forward and in recommending we go with the option B budget and ask the health, the board of

1:17:16 health to, deter- set a fee schedule to cover that two million dollars. Thank you, Ms. Noonan. Yeah. So I just wanted to bring something to the board, just,

1:17:31 not necessarily A versus B, but just in regards to one of the things that we were looking at and discussing for the Department of Community Development, just looking at some of the changes that have occurred even, you know, within the last week or two with that department. And obviously, you know, town planner Alex left, and now, you know, we’re looking at bringing additional personnel. And I think that I just wanna make sure we’re not, being shortsighted overall. So we have potentially now, well, not potentially, we definitely have to, you know, replace the town planner, but we have all of these projects that are in the works, and I think that obviously with three A, we lost a significant amount

1:18:19 of grants. You know, even though that was proposed to be scare tactics as well, ironically, it wasn’t, and we’ve lost them. Uh, so with that funding and with all of these projects, and you know, just the list that I was going through, you know, you talk about like the shipyard, and Devereux Beach, and ADA, and State Street, and the trail design, and our master plan, and facilities plan for bicycles, like all of these things, if we completely decimate like that entire department, basically, and we don’t have any department head in, I, you know, I… My concern is we’ve eliminated that position, but then are we also eliminating the funding that we can receive? Perhaps it’s not from a state grant because we’ve been shut out because of three A, but from federal projects, from other things, and

1:19:07 also the institutional knowledge and the expertise to exercise and implement all of these things that we actually have in play and need. You know, I mean things like, such as the master plan and all these other resources. So anyway, I just want-Us to, I just want to bring that back to the table, just as something as a discussion point for that particular department and making sure that if we are now, you know, losing sustainability, if we’re losing that, we’ve lost the entire, just,

1:19:45 historical knowledge of all of these projects and also the ability to execute on all these projects. And lastly, the ability to access funding to perhaps continue doing all the plans that we’re trying to put in place. So I, I personally just have concerns over that decision, and I wanted to bring it up. Okay. Can I just say- Yeah. And I just, I totally, I agree with that, and I– but I also think– I, I, I agree with that, and I think we should talk about that. But I think first we need to decide whether or not we’re asking for two million dollars, to be moved into a fee-based item. We’re choosing– Like, I think we first need to decide, are we- That’s fine. I think one million or not. Yeah. It’s hard because it was something that we brought up. And then talk about what B looks like if we don’t.

1:20:32 Okay. Does that make sense? Yep, that’s what I think you want to say. Just want to tie a couple comments to what you said from earlier tonight. One of the reasons for creating that department was to expand the capability to, one, go after and build our economic base, work with the business community. I mean, I was saddened to read in, in the current letter about the, the chamber having to basically– they’re going through the same thing we are. They’re having to roll back their capabilities to do their function. And, and one of the purposes of creating community development planning, among multiple things, is to work with the business community to start building the commercial, industrial base of Marblehead to take pressure

1:21:19 off the residential base. We’re less than four percent commercial property. Yeah. So to your point, the s- the answer to the bigger economic problems and the new growth was creating this department to have the– to, to, to look at that. And to your point about all these projects, ultimately, what would happen is if it shrank down to just being town planner, the town planner would be solely focused on meeting all the requirements of the regulatory boards because that, that business will go on. Landlords, EB, and such. Focus on that, and basically the vast majority of all our projects would have to sit on the shelf for another day when we can- Well, and I think that was basically what I’m speaking to in regards to, I think,

1:22:06 one of the, the gentlemen who was here at public comment in regards to, looking at not being shortsighted, looking at economic growth, looking at those opportunities. And, you know, Becky Curran had put an article, you know, I believe it was last year, but correct me if I’m wrong, in regards to specifically stating, you know, that what– when she was working here as a town planner, what she was limited by, and the fact that there was a lot of these types of things that she just as, as a, just a town planner, she was not able to do. And then add into that the complexities to access some of these things and the applications and managing them. And it’s not only just the application, it’s the management of it, it’s the execution of it, it’s the follow-through, it’s making the

1:22:53 qualifications. Like, these are multi-level steps, and if you have eliminated the rest of these positions and you just have a town planner, we are now losing that economic growth opportunity, losing that ability to perhaps, you know, revitalize through other methods of increasing revenue in the long term. So I– like I said, we can, you know, pivot at a different time, but I just wanna bring that up. Any- anybody else want to speak? Yeah, I’d like to,

1:23:28 just reiterate a little bit what Aaron said. Um, I think right now that the municipal side budget is running pretty lean. You know, and it has for a, you know, fair amount of time. And I think we’re probably, what, nine full-time employees down from two thousand and eighteen. You know, so there’s been a steady drop as the, municipal side budget has kind of tightened up. Without getting into too, too many details on the history. On the school side, I’m equally convinced that they’re being run efficiently as of the fiscal year,

1:24:10 as of the fiscal year twenty-six budget. Okay. And the reason I say that is because if you look at the comps across the commonwealth, we’re situated right at the average of the spend per student and the FTE per student. So the schools are doing pretty well, and I was surprised, right? Because I had originally thought that they’re, you know, with a twenty-five percent decline in enrollments, you’d expect there to be a comparable adjustment. But it turns out that most districts in the commonwealth have faced such rising costs, especially through the COVID period, that, you know, we’re, we’re basically matching our cohort ac-across the commonwealth. So I would argue that right now the schools– And by the way, they’ve dropped seventy-five, full-time staff since two thousand, eighteen. Right? So there’s been a

1:24:59 pretty good drop in full-time staff. Now, I’ve gotten those from Destiny, so I’m not sure. It- it’s a mix of teachers and, and older staff, and I’m not sure what they’re including in that, but it gives you an indication, you know, that we’ve, we’ve at least lowered our profile. So, you know, I look at fiscal year twenty-six as kind of a good baseline to kind of ground what we’re thinking about here and kind of where we’re going this year. Um, and I think we’ve basically hit– And I’m, and I’m repeating this because I think it will affect our overall strategy and how we think about this.So I think we have– we’ve, we’ve, we’ve not emphasized the revenue shocks that we’ve, that we’ve faced, and it’s important to understand the characteristics of the revenue shocks, and we’ve also faced two cost, you know, expansions as well that

1:25:46 we’re having to cover. So we basically have the perfect storm of events that we’ve anticipated, but we’ve had a hard landing. Okay? We’ve had a hard landing that we were hoping to get a smoother landing as we came in, but we’ve had a hard landing. And the reason for that is ‘cause if you look at the new, you know, from fiscal year twenty-six to fiscal year twenty-seven, we do not have any additional revenue growth. Why is that? It’s because the net new property tax, that’s available is about two point two million dollars. Okay? The problem is, is that local receipts are down a million dollars from last year. So that’s gonna, that’s gonna hurt. Okay? Now, whether it happens again next year, we don’t know. Um,

1:26:32 that’s just something to think about. The other key driver, it’s important to emphasize this, is that we have run out. We’re not gonna be– we’re completely removing ourselves from our reliance on free cash. What does that mean this year? It means that we don’t have two million dollars of free cash that we had last year. So that’s a wallop that is smack upside the head for the town. Okay? That’s the bad news this year. The good news y- is, is it’s a one-time event. We’re not gonna kind of replicate. So if we vote, you know, for an override, we’re basically, you know, that’s something that hopefully it’s not gonna appear in the– it won’t appear in the future. We’ll probably zero out. We’re not gonna take any more from free cash because we’re

1:27:17 basically at a level of free cash. And this was basically something that we had provided a policy to Thatcher and Alicia on to kinda get to a f- a free cash level where we were no longer dipping into that for operating purposes. We’ve hit that point this year, and we’re, we’re getting smacked because we don’t have two million that we had last year. So I just wanna emphasize the revenue problem that we have, okay? Because people are asking, you know, why the hell is this so deboning? Because we’re getting hit from all sides. So on the cost side, it’s really healthcare. So it’s basically we’ve got big healthcare drivers this year, two million bucks more than last year, roughly, maybe a little less than that overall. And that, that includes healthcare and pension, contributions, et cetera. And then we also have this exoge– this kind of

1:28:06 exogenous or contract with trash, which is probably another, you know, million nine hundred to, to a million bucks. So we’ve had the– a number of, of costs that, you know, that represent singular moment cost drivers, right? The bad news is it’s a big smack in the head this year. The good news is, is that we should be able to– once we get a permanent tax increase, which is an override, it’s a permanent bump up, we should be able to kind of manage that more comfortably in future years, mainly because the largest component of the deficit this year is free cash, which we’re not going to, you know, just… You know, we’re not gonna have a negative free

1:28:51 cash, hopefully next year. Right. We’re gonna stabilize it at, what, five hundred thousand or less. So we’re gonna have that, you know, that discipline. I’m reviewing that simply because, when you look at what it’s going to take to make us whole for a balanced budget next year, there’s a lot of cuts. And the cuts are gonna come from, you know, the school side, they’re gonna come from, as, as, as my colleague, Dan outlined, on the school side and on the town side. The town side is suffer– is gonna get hit more than the school side, and that’s mainly be– and that’s mainly because we, we, we have less operating cash, you know, less

1:29:36 operating– a smaller operating budget, discretionary operating budget to cover those costs, so we can’t absorb them the same way that a larger budget could. So that’s my, you know, my way of kind of setting up, I think, you know, the reason we’re in such a conundrum. We understand exactly why we’re in this conundrum, right? That’s the bottom line. And we know exactly how to get out of it, you know. And, and what– I think the next step is what we’re here for this meeting, which is what’s the strategy? What do the– what does the appropriating body of the town wanna see to address this particular problem, right? Now, my argument has been, at the very least,

1:30:22 we need a restoration budget, right? And so I think it’s like we– I think we just gotta, we gotta go to the town, tell them, “Hey, no kidding, these are the cuts we’re gonna have to make unless we get overrides. And we– And, and you need to help us navigate through what you want and what you don’t want, and help us do that.” Now, I know that’s a lean in to kind of more of a menu-based approach. I understand that that’s politically challenging, for, for many reasons. Um, it’s also very challenging for Thatcher when he has to go to the department head meetings and say, “Hey, this is what I’m looking for,” and it’s huge. Um, it’s not a fun job. And then, you know, we put ourselves at the mercy of our appropriating body, that

1:31:11 they trust what we’re saying is accurate around the restoration costs that we need to face. So… And, and we will have to throw ourselves to the mercy of the appropriating body of the town. And I think we’ve discri– discussed, discussed several ways to do that. As I say, I’m still trying to think through the healthcare thing. I think what it is, it’s going to be a transfer.You know, from a tax base to a fee base most- Trash. Trash. Sorry, sorry, sorry. Trash. Thank you very much. Yeah, trash fee. Uh, I think, you know, most, most people in town are gonna see that as a, as a form of an override just because you’re shifting to another, you know, to a utility-based fee. Um,

1:31:57 I’m torn because in some ways I’m, I’m thinking, you know, we should just come clean with, you know, with a very simple, version A, right? Hard as it is, and then throw ourselves on the mercy of the, of the town to, re, you know, to, to restore those monies so that we have a full budget under- understanding full well how we got here. Um, I think the trash thing could be… is a very, it’s another form of funding. I guess that’s the way to look at it, but I’m not sure we ought to put that front and center because I think it’s gonna be controversial enough that we don’t… it’s gonna distract from the clarity. I think we need clarity around what we need, why we’re, why

1:32:42 we’re getting smacked over the head this year, and then clarity around, you know, what we need to, you know, to fund to make us whole this year. I think I’m… I don’t disagree with kind of the idea of doing multi-year projections to figure out where we’re gonna be, right? Um, as I said before, I’m not sure. There’s been plenty enough to focus on just on the restoration budget, you know, in other words, the restoration override. So the cuts that we’re gonna have to make to do a balanced budget, just to explore those, you know, those numbers. Um,

1:33:16 that’s gonna be hard enough to understand, and I think we’ve just gotta make sure that we’re, you know, that, that we get that. So that’s, that’s my preference. You know, I, I, I prefer to keep it really simple and straightforward in terms of what we need. And, and, and it does mean taking a risk. I hear what you’re saying. So can I… Just so I make sure that I understand what you’re saying. Mm-hmm. Um, just because there is a lot there. I mean, there’s a lot to unpack. Yeah. Sorry. No, no, no, no, it’s, it’s good. I mean, there’s, that’s– I think it, it overscores the, the complexity of this, right? So I think that, that it is good. If I think I hear what you’re saying, you’re saying that you would like to move forward with A, keep the trash, so keep the trash fee, as part of the town budget- That’s right. -you’re saying.

1:34:01 I am. And then if– and, and put the whole amount on an override, which means… Right? That, that, is that what you’re saying? That’s precisely what I’m saying. Okay. Now, I’m basically saying, look, we, we come to the town with a clean, you know, with a set of numbers. They are what they are. The most important thing is they understand why we’re here, why we’re here, and why we need this. Now I’m– I think there’s an argument to be made because we have a big, one-time cost item in this, in this revenue shaft. This gives us a little cushion in future years because we’re gonna permanently decrease the, the override. Now, I need to… This is something we can think about. I think it may buy us a little more time. I know there are gonna be some contractual increases next year that are probably

1:34:49 gonna be– we’re gonna point to that we need to, that we need to fund. Um, you know, the schools have been unbelievable this year. We’ve cooperated with them really well. Uh, Robido and his team are, are really fan… you know, really fantastic. Um, so I’m– on that side, I think we’ve got a pretty clear way to articulate to the schools what we’re hoping from them, given, you know, what, what we’re hoping that they fund on their side, to, to meet their deficit obligation in this situation. So I actually think I misstated. You’re like A and a half, right? So just- Well, yeah, but- Because A and B- Yeah. Just so everyone… Let me explain. So A had- Yeah. A had no trash fees- Right … and no schools. And then B- So, and B, B had both. So you would like to be…

1:35:37 So let’s just, let’s just start with a simple number. Five million was the deficit at A, right? You’re saying take the one, reduce the school allocation by one and a half, right? Because B was reducing the allocation by two million. Okay. So, and can we just- Well, it’s important for C. Are you a hybrid there? Well, you know what? I guess I haven’t had a chance to talk to you about it. No, but- Or, and I think we’re deliberating right now. Um, yeah. So scenario B, as you have, or, or whatever, is probably scenario one, you know, one B, whatever, right? But, but you still want an allocation. So let’s just talk simple numbers. Five million dollars- Right … is, is the number- Right … that we had. The reduction in schools was one and a half. So you were at three and a half in, in cuts? Okay. So it’s- Well, no, no, no. Okay. Well, right. I think the five– so basically the way– where

1:36:23 I’m coming out is f- it’s four and a half budget on the town side, and there’s a one point five. Sorry, one– four point five deficit on the town side, roughly. And these are- Yeah, the five. Yeah … these are different assumptions. Right. And one point five right now on the school side. Okay. So the question is, is that the… I need clarification from you on this, because if we think we can get one point five from the schools to help fund our side- Mm-hmm … you know, our budget, that is a, that is a great solution. But you’re advocating for still, for, for, for the schools. But- Yeah, but- But not for the trash. I guess I just wanna make sure that we’re- That, that- … talking apples to- Well, I, I think the problem… Yes. The, the, uh- Okay … the i- the issue, as I’ve said, my concern– I get how it helps Thatcher’s discussions, but I just think it adds a

1:37:10 mix that folks aren’t too happy about. We’ve heard a little bit about that. I’ve heard a lot from a lot of people about- Mm-hmm … about that. And, you know, and I get how it does things. You know, when you show this, this yellow bar- Mm-hmm … what you’re basically saying is if the override passes, it’s less risky, which it does- If the override, if the override passes. If the override fails- Right … it’s less risky. Yep. Which I understand. But on the other hand, I, I don’t think we ought to-Necessarily I, I hear you. I just want to make sure I understand. Yeah. So you’re, you’re taking… Let’s, let’s… So you’re taking B and adding back in two million dollars. Is that the simple way to do it? Well, what I’m doing, well, what I’m doing right now is… Listen, f-for us- No, what I’m doing is, let’s just focus on our deficit. Okay. What is, what is our deficit? Well, we started at five, and we’re at- Okay. Call it, call it four five.

1:37:56 Four five. Four five. That’s fine. So we’re at four five. Yep. We need to understand what cuts we need to make to balance our budget, so we gotta find four and a half million bucks. That’s your override right there on, you know, on this, on, on, on our side. Now, the schools have one point five that they still need to find. The question is, can they, you know, how are they, how are they gonna do that? And they could also, you know- I think that four and a half includes not reducing the schools. Right. That’s correct. Right? So, so that’s- That includes not schools. So, so if we move forward with the schools- Mm-hmm … you’re closer to three. If the schools are going to- Okay … fit, fill that portion of our deficit.

1:38:41 Okay. I just wanna make sure I understand. And then I, I’m at- That is the- I, I just wasn’t aware that the schools were there, but that’s fine. Okay. No, I just wanna make sure that while we have this conversation- No, no, no … because we’re throwing A, B- Yeah. Well, listen- And- That’s why I think, that’s why I think at the end of the day, you know, we’ve got, we’ve got a deficit. We’ve, we’ve gotta show the town how it, what cuts need to be made to have a balanced budget, and then offer them override. You know, maybe it’s a menu or a trunched out override that basically gives the town… I think it’s a better idea to give the town choice around what they want, you know, how they want to kind of restore the costs that we otherwise would. Yeah. I, I, that, I f- I… In my opinion, that’s a, that’s an easier way to go. Okay. Yeah.

1:39:26 Jim, you wanna weigh in or? Yeah. I, I would just say, when I left here last week, it was late. Uh, I didn’t even open my front door, and my wife says, “You’re not closing the library.” No, I gotta close. He likes her cookbooks. Um, am I gonna drive by Seaside next summer and see three feet of grass? No. We’re not checking that parking. Are we gonna have elderly people not getting to their doctor’s appointments? No. I spent a lot of time down in the south, so we have to find a way. So that’s why I don’t like A. On the other hand, I don’t think

1:40:08 the trash fee situation has been studied enough by this point. I did… We, we had a conflict, but I did listen to your meeting, early this week, and Andrew gave a very thorough,

1:40:24 layout of what it’s like. And, and I had thought we might have had him give us sort of a recap here because there’s a, um… Maybe that’s a, a story for next week because it’s extremely complex. And the other thing I would say, I think we’re gonna get from anecdotal… And Friday, I took a ride up to the Danvers Transfer Station. We’re gonna get a lot of people opting out, and I’ll tell you why, is one is… That was the other thing my wife said. Which we, we actually take– We only put barrels out maybe once a, once a month anyhow. So she, she said, “Opt out.” I said, “Well, I’m not sure I’m gonna be able to do that as a, on the select board.” But anyhow, a lot of people will. But Danvers has a high rate of participation, but they also charge by the pound to

1:41:10 drop your trash off. So it’s not- Yeah. It looks nothing like our transfer station. It’s really an industrial site. If you have anything less than a little bag of, of this, you have to have a hard hat and safety vest on, which interestingly enough, I carry in my car. So but that’s- Engineer. So, but anyhow, I, I just… It, it feels like the whole trash fee thing hasn’t been… I’m very, I don’t know, anxious or concerned about that and… But I’m not giving you a solution here either, either way. You know, obviously, I’m kind of the Moses hybrid sort of. But at the end of the day, what’s… Even the baseline budget is a town meeting decision. It is the people’s decision. No matter what we decide, A or

1:41:58 B, even with the baseline budget, you can go to town meeting, there’d be floor motions to, “I want to keep this, I want to keep that,” or whatever. Um, and, you know, I, I really, the, the pushback on, on the three quality of life departments was, I got a lot of it. I mean, we, we just… I, I just couldn’t imagine. You know, you, you love going by, like in the spring when it’s starting to be Peter James, but when the, cover comes off seaside, the, the green… That’s coming soon, right? The green grass and so forth. So I, I don’t have a good answer right now, but I, I also feel, I feel that two fifty number could go a lot higher, and then it will become less palatable. And I really…

1:42:44 It’s, it’s still– I also, I don’t, I don’t wanna– I know you got an opinion from Lisa Meade, but I also happen to be talking today to a certain retired, board of health director who had his hip surgery canceled, and he happened to be driving by my house, and who happened to present Asia Throw, whatever, fifteen, twenty years ago, which somehow then had to go to town meeting. And, he said he almost got run out of town. Okay. That’s big. But anyhow, I, I just, I think there’s a few things on the trash fee that still have to be ironed out. And it is, as Moses said, it’s… If, if the board of health or we, and actually, as I actually Friday incorrect the state bar, I’m an engineer, not a lawyer, it almost said like the select board had to do it.

1:43:31 If we had actually accepted, section 22F, the state, and it’s unclear to me if we ever accepted that. But again, anyhow, I just feel that whole story is, is still a little bit spikyOh. So what do you- Learn So here’s– I think we have eight weeks to tell me, right? Yeah. We have talked about this. What are you, what are you recommending? So- Or I, I would- Again, after listening to the Andrew, I, I would, you know, I don’t know if we can get an estimate on dissipation rates. And, I think the number was just, he hasn’t signed a contract either. And the other thing that’s going on, and a lot of people are getting confused by, is the so-called perfect storm, is

1:44:16 regardless of what’s going on budgetary-wise, the way of trash collection is changing with the mechanized pickup and all this other stuff. And people are getting that often confused into one thing. It’s, it’s- So that’s outside of our purview. No, no, I, I know that. With that. It would have been, like I said, I just– I, I thought before low like this, we might have had a briefing from the portal. That’s all. My guess, correct me if I’m wrong, Andrew’s sitting here, is that it wouldn’t have been much different than what you gave the other night. I mean, I, you know… So- Right … when we put the con- or the RFP together- We did a lot of work to make sure we could understand the costs. Um, right now, when we look at the cost of curbside collection, a lot of things are pushed together. Um, so we, we knew it was gonna be a big budget

1:45:03 number. So we tried to break it down as many things as possible. So we had– we got numbers for the cost for curbside collection of trash, the cost of curbside collection for recycling, the cost of disposal of trash, the cost of disposal for recycling, the cost of collection for the schools for trash, the cost of collection for recycling of the schools. And those are lump sum numbers for the schools, for both the trash and recycling. Um, the cost for the municipal buildings for just the trash, just for recycling. We also got numbers for recycling every other week. The big thing we are doing is that industry is pushing us to automation. Mm-hmm. Um, that doesn’t mean you’ll have automation a hundred percent across the town. We have a very dense downtown district.

1:45:50 We don’t believe we can run automation down there. We’ll be doing similar to what we have now. Um, so you will have a change with that. Again, you could do every other recycling collection. We will be implementing barrels that every household, every business that we would be collecting trash from. So we know the exact amount that you could be putting out for both trash and recycling. We’ve decided when we looked at that, we made sure that when we looked at the recycling, so you’re gonna get a ninety-five gall-gallon barrel for recycling. If we chose to go every other week, that would be fine. We wouldn’t have to go out and buy additional barrels. The barrels run about nine hundred and four thousand dollars for the whole community. We’re buying sixteen thousand barrels. We will be financing those over five years.

1:46:38 We will be using waste revolving funds that we make from commercial accounts to cover that cost. We feel that our commercial operations, there’s a benefit to the community, and we’re trying to share those benefits. So that’s why we’re doing that. Okay. So I guess, thank you. But we, you know, there’s little, there’s little pieces in there that when we did the deals and stuff like that, and we tried to suss out and tried to look at efficiency as much as possible. Mm-hmm. So there’s little things that we did, and we tried to bring numbers down as much as possible. Yeah, I think you did. So we appreciate your hard work on that. I guess here’s, Jim, my, my thought is that the way that it works on automation that- That, that’s- Yeah, but, but- We don’t have to talk about it. Okay. But, but you did- It’s just- You did, you did talk about that. So I think I don’t feel comfortable leaving this meeting tonight without giving our finance committee-

1:47:25 Oh, no, I, I- Go- We got to that. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Then do you wanna keep going? If you need direction- Yeah … for planning purposes- Yep … I would say B, because I cannot- Okay … shut- The- The library- Okay … park and rec, and the COA down. I gotcha. Okay. And just not gonna do it. B is a planning tool that options of some sort can be brought to the people at town meeting. Okay. Kinda like what Moses said, because it’s– I just– We gotta give people at town meeting the option to decide where they wanna go. And if you go in there saying, “We’re gonna shut the library down,” it, COA, park, and rec, it’s gonna be bedlam. Mm-hmm. You know, it’s, it’s gonna be mass chaos. So, that, that’s- But the point is, we got eight weeks. Yep. They can start. They gotta have something to start from.

1:48:13 And I would say start with that and- Okay … see how– And, and I know the numbers don’t add up. It’s, so- What, what numbers don’t add up? You have two equations with three unknowns. You can’t solve the equation right now with the chaos that’s up. Well, under, under, un-un-under B, we have– Under B, we have, we have a, a known- Yeah … of two million dollars from the- Yeah … out of that, right? So what’s the other unknown? You’re saying the school. I just, I- No, it’s- But we just need to have everything out in the open here. So what, what is, what are the three unknowns? Now which one is B? Which one is B? The blue or the green? B is- Yellow. Yellow. Yeah. Yeah. Right. I, I– It, it’s not a, a perfect solution, actually. But there’s no perfect solution to the situation- I get it … in my opinion. But- I don’t like any of the consequences. At the end of the thing, if, if FinCom needs direction, I would say

1:49:01 plan for B. Okay. Because our end goal has to be to give the, the voters/taxpayers the choice of where they wanna save. And as best I can tell, one of those choices is not having the library, park and rec, and COA shut down. Okay. That’s how I think. Moses suggested some other alternatives which they can work through. That’s- Okay. So- And, and B, just so that we’re all on the same page, that is asking the school for one point five million dollar reduction. It is taking the, it is taking the trash, allocation out of the budget, the two million dollars. And that’s so that- If- Yeah. If- Okay … if in those things, there’s gonna be all sorts of feedback and-

1:49:47 I know that we’ll come back, but that’s a place for the thing to start at. Alexa. Yeah. I just wanna make a clarification, ‘cause so, one of the comments that came up, in public comment that we were eliminating the waste department- Mm-hmm … which is, I just wanted to make some clarification. You’re good. I don’t remember exactly what you just said, but it, it, I think that- Curbside, curbside pickup disposal … yeah, that’s what I thought you… Thank you. Thank you. But- Appreciate that … also that this is also separated out from municipal buildings and other, you know, and school buildings and things like that, that we’ve done, an analysis of looking at, you know, pulling those pieces out, reducing that impact as much as possible, and also, you know, I mean, I, looked at forty-seven percent, you know, of other communities, meaning other communities are having this exact

1:50:32 same struggle, and our… You know, it happens to be that ours is happening, unfortunately, at the exact same time, that the contract was expiring. You know, Andrew has done his due diligence to, you know, let the community know that this, you know, has been a concern. And we are looking at the repercussions of what are these other decisions that we are faced with, and, you know, I just… It’s… When you look at closing down some of these other services or greatly, greatly reducing some of these other services and what that means i- for our town, I think we have to, and that’s part of where we landed here. And, you know, I, I think there’s been a lot of accusations in regards to that, you know, this is a

1:51:20 scare tactic, this is that. I mean, I personally have spent, I can’t even count how many hours looking at budgets, looking at options, thinking of different things. Um, so, and, you know, I just have sat through State of the Towns for, you know, five years now, looking at from when Jason had presented in twenty twenty-one, and what we were looking at, and what our options were. And we have, you know, on the town side, reduced employees, reduced, you know, as much as we possibly can in different departments. We looked to bring the meals tax forward. That gave us some additional revenue. So every year, we’ve been looking at e- efficiencies, trying to address every possible thing we could to get the finances in this town,

1:52:08 and we are at the point where we can’t control the fact that we’ve run out of a contract. It was a great contract. We were very lucky. It’s ended. Mm. I can’t control that. It’s unfortunate it’s happening right now. If we, you know, could go back in time, and wave our magic wand, and make that contract for twenty years or ten or five more, but, and, like, that’s just where we are right now. So that’s unfortunate. The healthcare cost is right now. That’s unfortunate. But all of these things are happening at a time that we, as a board, can’t control. And so I’ve heard a lot of, you know, criticism in regards to all the things, the programming. However, you know, we’re working as hard as we possibly can to find solutions. You know, we worked really hard to get our emails out there and be accessible.

1:52:56 So if you have a, you know, a solution that… Send an email. Discuss it. I’d love to hear solutions, you know, if people would like to share thoughts. But I think that, as I said, I have lost track of the amount of time looking at all the possibilities that we could get to. So. Thank you. Yes. Yes. Uh, Jim raised an interesting point, which is, you know, do we need approval from the town to go forward with a trash collection plan? Now, if we’re unclear on that- We received from both, and that was my understanding. But could I see that? Oh, I, could I- We will get it. We will have a formal- Okay … legal opinion. Yeah.

1:53:41 We have it in verbal and email. We are asking for an opinion letter- Good … from Lisa Mead- Okay … to clarify that. We’re not moving forward with- without doing that. That’s good. Okay. So I know that has been requested, and I– hopefully we should see that relatively soon. Yeah, a hundred, a hundred percent. Well, well, that’s fine. I mean, I think if, if- These I can look at … if it– Right. But if there’s lack of clarity around that, let’s say, or if we s- in the next couple of weeks, we see mounting opposition to it, where it becomes very evident that there’s mounting opposition to this, we better pu- better plan for A. That, that’s all, that’s all, that’s… Or A- A, A one. A eight point six … one, A one. If, if eight point… Or A point one. Eight, eight point five. You– I think it’s your innovation. A one. I’m just saying. Don’t blame it on me.

1:54:28 Good try. So yeah, I mean, but I think we ought to plan for the more, you know, for the budget that assumes it. But we gotta plan for the worst scenario, I guess, is what- We do that. Yeah. We have to present a bu- a balanced budget for FinCom to review, one budget for FinCom to review. We need to vote the budget next Friday. I’m gonna respectfully disagree- Sorry … with my colleague. I don’t think it’s next Friday. Or, well, we have our budget review. Well, yeah. We will go through this at that time. So, yeah. Okay. Um- We can go through the timeline after. Yeah. So I am gonna respectfully disagree that we haven’t done re- enough research on the trash. I think we’ve tried to make it very clear tonight, we’ve looked at, done extensive community research, peer reviews.

1:55:16 There’s ten percent, ten percent of other communities are offering both curbside and transfer station. We would be well within normative procedure here to charge what is the average fee, essentially. You know, like that’s around what the, the basic math. Obviously, that’s something that Andrew has to, you know, and, and the health department would have to really weigh in on what that exactly looks like. But I’m just not comfortable, and I don’t think it’s fair to our town departments To ask us to go from already an eleven percent very unpopular to something like twenty-one percent because some people don’t like a fee. And

1:56:04 there’s an option, you don’t have to pay the fee. And I know that there is still some research to be done on what– who– how many people would opt out or whatnot, but I, I do know anecdotally from a couple communities, it’s very small that actually opt out. We’re talking about a nominal fee. Um, and it’s, you know, we pay a resident sticker fee, we pay fees for, a school department assesses fees to parents all over the place. We pay fees to have a dog licensed. We have– This is not something we just assume is in our… These are choices that people get to make. So in the, in the spirit of allowing for that liberty of people to make choices, I would say, and also considering the fact I think it’s really unfair to our town departments to go from an um–

1:56:51 what already is an eleven percent reduction to something like a twenty-one percent. Meanwhile, the schools are, are cutting one point five, which I think is, is, is, is gonna feel– that that’s gonna feel pain. Right now, I feel like just having observed and watched all of their meetings, it seems like if they were level funded now, that’s, that’s sort of a right sizing of where we’re at. Um, but I don’t– I do think that that would present enough, and that would really be a lopsided presentation to the town, to, to town to go forward with the budget that decimates a quarter of our staff on the town side. Can I say something? Considering that, you know, it is very– considering the research that we’ve done into how mainstream and, and most

1:57:40 funds like kind of… This is– the other towns have already moved this direction a long time ago. We’re way behind. Other communities have already faced the revenue stream and made these revenue adjustments. We are just behind, and we’re doing it now. Alexa. I just wanna say too that, you know, just from this slide that you were– that you posted and some of the things that were popping up in there, that, you know, a lot of, communities that were on there as well, that there was no option, there was no fee. You either set up your own and had to set up your own privatized trash and pay for that service to come and pick it up, or then, you know, you had to set up some sort of other resources. So I just would like to

1:58:26 make that point too, that we have been considering this, like trying to figure out solutions, but also considering, you know, that, that, that within itself would be a tremendous impact on the citizens. If, if we said, “Okay, we’re just not going to have that option, we’re pulling that option,” you know, citizens had to go and figure out their own private trash pickup or those types of things, like, that’s not something that we’re, you know… And, you know, from a financial perspective, obviously other towns have looked at these numbers and made that decision and said, “This is what, you know, we have to do to make those hard decisions to try to build that.” Hold on. We don’t– Excuse me, we don’t have public comment. No, I’m just-

1:59:11 I don’t mind, but thank you. I appreciate that. Obviously, e-every town is– that’s faced with the fiscal decisions are having to make different. Yep. All right. So I think what I’m hearing, I’m not sure that I have a consensus. Um, I don’t know if people wanna vote on this. I don’t– we don’t necessarily have to. Do people feel comfortable directing the, to go through, to directing the finance committee to go through with scenario B? And obviously, if something changes with a legal opinion or if something else comes up, we can pivot, but we have to have a direction to move forward in. And I think I heard from you that you would like to, a-and Aaron as well, sorry, have the finance committee revisit what the options are for the community development as well, which is like… Okay.

1:59:56 So that’s what, that’s what I heard before. So- It’s fine. Yeah. Yep. Right? No. But- You, you guys need to tell me what- Oh, sorry. Sorry. That gets said. Sorry. Yeah. Sorry. Thatcher, are we to replace everything I just said to a rep- find a replace and call it Thatcher? Sorry. Yeah. Yeah. To direct, to, to direct Thatcher, sorry, Thatcher- Yes … to, to, to go forward with, with, with B, okay? With those and, and makes and, and that you, from what I’m hearing, and if there’s anything else that people want at this t-time for Thatcher to look into to see if there’s changes, adjustments that we can make to satisfy some of the concerns that people have on this board, I think we should let Thatcher know that now as well moving forward, so that we can move

2:00:44 forward in an efficient manner. Because as has been said many times, we have eight weeks of that meeting. Yeah. So I know. I, I, like I said, I- Yeah … brought up my thoughts for- Yeah … you know, community planning. If there’s opposition. Yep. Does anybody else that we want to give Thatcher direction, directive? No. I mean, yeah, I, I agree. I think my inclination based on the totality of the circumstances here, it’s not, like we don’t– I don’t come to it lightly. I’ve lost sleep over this. I’ve sat with the spreadsheet of the budget and been like, “Okay, well, what if we, if we keep this, then you…” You know, you have to, when you’re looking at that spreadsheet, if you put back the positions at the library, you gotta take it from someplace else. And there’s certain things that we have to perform here as a town, like public safety, and we’ve already

2:01:31 done– We’ve already really, really hit into those, and you can ask our chiefs about that, okay? So I’m– That is– There’s limited options for us. It’s not that we are choosing it over. It’s not a very– There’s– It’s, it doesn’t feel like a choice, honestly, because we have to have a building inspector’s office. There’s, you know, a handful of inspectors. That’s actually a revenue driver also, and people need to have a– get an inspection so they can get their-Addition done. You know, Rec and Park, we have to cut the grass, you know. I mean, the– So you have to look at these discretionary choices, and there’s not, there’s not a lot of them. And the option is, you will see, we will talk about an override, if you don’t like it, then you will have an option at town meeting and at ballot

2:02:19 box to restore them. So that’s where we’re at with that. With regards– So again, the two million dollars, the one point five from the schools, ‘cause of the formula that is gonna be detailed tomorrow with them, but we’ve all seen it. And I would also echo that, with Alexis’ point that I-I– Totally decimating the Community Planning and Development Department, where we have multi-million dollar projects right in the pipeline, and all of those projects would go on the shelf. I’m not– I think it’s, it’s really penny-wise, pound-foolish. I mean, we have a hundred and seventy-five thousand dollars in towards the rail trail that’s, like, ready to go, that would go on a shelf. I mean, we just got a federal permit for the shipyard, and we’re waiting on

2:03:05 potentially eleven million dollars Port Infrastructure Development Program to come in. Like, literally, our depart– director refreshed his phone to see if we’re getting that. That would be the money that we need to shore up our waterfront. Um, there is the Five Corners kickoff, again, tonight. That’s a hundred and fifty thou- hundred and fifty thousand dollars that we’re right in the, we’re in the design phase for that. Again, that would just go on a shelf and be wasted, if we don’t have a director. Uh, we’re at the finish line for the Green Communities. We get immediately have access to a hundred thousand dollars. If there’s nobody there to use it or implement it for a project, it doesn’t happen. So it’s a hundred and fifty thousand dollars from the Green Communities that it’s like, right, you can see it.

2:03:51 So, CCM grant for the State Street landing. That’s– We’ve, we’ve gotten every five of them we’ve applied for, we’ve gotten. So we’re– That’s the ex-expectation is we’re getting the State Street landing. You know, that’s, that’s serious. We get flooding. It’s coastal resiliency. Um, and again, economic growth, planning, our master plan, things that are already- Mm-hmm … we’re doing. And I would also just like to add, if we have a budget that could– If we put forward a budget that leaves a, just a town planner, which is a very thin position right now, we’re allowing for no continuity of transfer. Uh, we’re allowing for no continuity and transition in that department. And I’d be hard-pressed to think of a town planner that would, you know,

2:04:39 look at this as an, as an appetizing employment opportunity. So for those reasons, I would like us to revisit that department position, and I would also like to maybe have some clarifying conversations with the library department. Um, ‘cause I don’t think the expectation, I don’t think the, the intention was to shutter the library, but the expectation was to proportionally reduce services, you know, as we need to. I’ll go to Ben then, sir. Yeah. If I could just follow up with a question. If the board, the majority of the board decides to go forward with plan B, we better d**n well make sure that we’ve got this, you know, trash fee collection thing underway and, and firmly

2:05:26 established, right? And assuming that we don’t, the question is whether, even though we may not require a vote of the town meeting for a trash collection fee program, sh- you know, the question remains, should we give the town the option to vote on it? I think there’s a huge moral hazard with going forward without the approval of town meeting, just saying. Um, and so, you know, while I have very big reservations about front-loading that as part of a planning budget, I also understand that if we can drive it through and get the bud- the, the trash collection, you know, scheme set up, that we’re lowering our risk if the other overrides don’t pass. I get that.

2:06:15 That’s a– That is a strategy. It’s just one that I, I prefer to throw myself on the to- on the town, the appropriating body, in our fullness and say, “Look, this is why we’re here, and here’s what you have to do to make us whole, and, and vote for it.” And just for clarity- Yeah … there are no override options for trash, ‘cause you need a contract signed and in place long before- Right … any vote, and then- Right … you would not– It can– You can’t, you can’t put that up in the air as an open question as to whether you have funding or not. Well, no, you can’t. In June, they have to be- Either in this budget or it’s late … so, so it either has to be-

2:07:00 Look, I, look, I, I think- On the general fund budget, or it has to be on a- We have the prerogative to, to sh- Right You know, presumably, we have the prerogative to, to implement this trash fee collection. Uh, the question is, you know, well, how does that affect our chances at town meeting? Yeah. And I’m worried about that. No, and so- So, so, so I just want to clarify that point. Yeah. Because when I did– listening to the Board of Health, and Chair, if I may ask Andrew a question. Sure. Just a quick one. I know you said the contract is subject to appropriation. All contracts are subject to appropriation. So that if you didn’t get appropriation, it would be null and void. Is that correct? Right. But, so you don’t want- It’s not that I want that to happen, but I just want to clarify that point. If you don’t- I don’t want that to happen at all, but- If you don’t make agreements now, you won’t have trucks available.

2:07:47 Then there’s- So we’re- I think what you’re saying is different. If he signs that contract, he has to have appropriations in place, correct? Not- Okay. It, it doesn’t have an opt-out if you don’t get appropriations. Right. Time is of the essence. Okay. To get that- Yeah, I think there’s a fine line there Okay. Are we comfortable moving forward to discussing override options and, and people feel comfortable moving on from this discussion? I’ll still take just like a two-minute bathroom break. Sure, we

2:08:18 can. Yeah, we’re gonna, we’re gonna come back at nine fifteen. Four minutes? Four minutes. Pat, can you clarify what option you decided? Because you didn’t take a vote. Yeah, we took- Didn’t take a vote. We’ll be here, yeah. You’ve been blessed.

2:16:33 Back in session. There we go. Okay. Microphone’s on. Back to the calendar. If there’s anyone. So, so today’s the eleventh. So the next- Charles … next action is on March nineteenth. It’s a select board meeting to vote on all of your budget items under your purview. Yeah. So we will have a vote- Next Thursday. Thursday. Then you have a board meeting, regular meeting on the twenty-fifth. FINCOM holds their budget sessions on Saturday the twenty-eighth, and then reviews select board items on the thirtieth. So ours is at one thirty PM, if I’m looking correctly, on the, on the

2:17:20 nineteenth? I think one. Okay. The one, one thirty. One- One o’clock … one o’clock. Thank you. Yeah. On the nineteenth. Okay. Nineteenth vote, March. Yeah. A week from tomorrow. Yep. Got it. Okay. Got it. So- I, I got that in. Yeah … so, so basically, with that timeline, tonight, our objective should be to outline the, what we’re requesting, what are the requested components for override scenarios. That’s what I propose as our objective tonight. For Patrick to come back to us with. What we’re outlining… Yeah. Got it. Exactly. We need to te- we need to, we need to go through, and I did, Mr. Chair, and I did pr- provide a pla- a starting

2:18:09 place- Okay … because I didn’t want the conversation to be so unwieldy. So I did provide a starting place that we could use as a template to then discuss and deliberate around, you know, like, the details of it. Well, since you did that work, do you wanna present that as a starting place, a jumping-off place on what… Oh, it’s already up there. Yes. On, on what you see, and then this could be everyone else, if they have spreadsheets they wanna put up, they can, or we can just talk off yours. So, so this would be, tonight, with our objective, just for everybody, would be to clarify what it is we’re asking staff to do. Thursday, we are reviewing our department budget, the balanced budget that nobody likes. We have to do that, and we have to vote on Thursday.

2:18:54 Yeah. Our next meeting on the twenty-fifth, we, we should have staff come back with what it is we’re telling them. Come back and present to us what this looks like. Rough numbers. And also, like, you’ll see that we also aren’t sure, like, what’s, what exactly– It requires feedback from department heads about what we’re including and what we wouldn’t include. Um, and then so the, on the thirtieth is our FINCOM select board meeting. April sixth is warrant night, and then we have town meeting, the first Monday in May. Is that the fourth Tuesday, or is that the third? May fifth. May fourth. She’s, she’s talking about one thing and telling us another . So that’s just to give you guys the timeline. So I just wanted to, like, set the direction for this. Okay.

2:19:40 Yes. Thank you. Yep. Can I just add something? Yeah, you sent me change of date. Yeah. Yeah. The finance committee voted to have all of the departments and all the- Yes, on the twenty-eighth … individual budgets reviewed on Saturday the twenty-eighth. Yeah. We’ve got that. So it’s not the thirtieth. Oh, so nothing on the thirtieth. Okay. All right. So that’s left over on my calendar, so that’s gone. Okay. So it’s all on, on the twenty-eighth. Okay. Yeah. It’s two days early. Okay. Thank you. Thank you for that clarification. Appreciate it. Yeah. Okay. So I think we’ve got a calendar set. Correct? And now we are gonna discuss potent-what, what you see in your mind for a place to start a conversation with jumping off points on overrides. Yeah. So I think

2:20:26 we need to decide whether, you know, what types of, how much do we wanna present one option, you know, the Amesbury method, or we wanna do something like two or three. I think listening to, I think, some of the comments around here that we wanted to present, we did wanna present some small, not sm- I don’t wanna say small, but some sort of restora-restoration, conservative number that, restores essential services from this balanced budget we’re putting forward. So should we just stop right there? It’s– Why don’t we talk about whether if– how the board feels about one- Uh, can we just make a vote? Nope. We’re having a conversation to give Thatcher- Okay, I just wanna make- Nope. Nope. We’re looking to get, have a conversation to give Thatcher directive to

2:21:12 come back on- The twenty-fifth … the twenty-fifth. And then we’ll decide. We have to see what that- Yeah … what it all looks like. I just wanna say- Yeah … prior to seven– nine thirty tonight, I have not seen this, and prior to seven o’clock, I haven’t seen this. It’s an awful lot to think prior to seven o’clock and- But it’s a discussion. This is a discussion. She should not have this up here and have the same conversation. No, I know, but to give direction.

2:21:37 It’s on for- What is your opinion on how many– It’s on the agenda to talk about an override. I, I know. Yeah. I, I would have liked, as I’ve asked many times before, to get the materials in advance so I could think about it. We did- The– Everything except for this sheet here was emailed out to you. I did not have Thatcher’s earlier. It wasn’t in my packet. Thatcher’s discussion about what Proposition two and a half is and the options on override? That’s not in my packet. Okay. That was– That’s fair. Okay. Okay. And he drew- Okay. I don’t think– I think even if he hadn’t given that, we would still be having a conversation. I, I wanna have the conversation, but I– if you’re, you’re looking for a recommendation, I just wanna make it clear, I haven’t seen this, and I don’t understand. No one’s seen this. No one’s seen this. This is– Erin just brought this up instead of- We need to have a conversation. Yeah. Otherwise, we’re starting with nothing, and we’re all kind of just talking.

2:22:24 Okay. So you haven’t seen it? No. Okay. I’m seeing this as well. Yeah. So do you want to– Well, I guess she is coming up for a discussion. Well, we can start with a blank slate. We can start with one- I, I– No, I don’t want- Yeah, okay. I would have liked to have it been sent out so we could review. I think she was working on this as well. Yeah. I guess the question that I think that I’m hearing from the- And my question, this is gonna be a really winding conversation, so I just, as a last minute effort, wanted to sort of provide somewhere to start. So, to just facilitate and for– to be expeditious. Do– Let’s, let’s start with where I– With the start from the beginning, which is a conversation about one override or multiple tiers. Do people have opinions on a single override versus multiple tiers? I would come back to what I said in the beginning.

2:23:10 It’s a town meeting decision, and the, the more choices we can give them, probably the better off we are. Okay. Um, it just– It– As we go through any of it, that’s gonna be my overriding thought. I agree with that. I s- I support opportunities. Multiple levels. Yep, I would too. Alexa, are you on the same page with that? Yeah. I mean, I think as regards to like what our statutory requirement is for the board and what our leadership responsibility is, you know, and for putting something like this in the ballot, we need to look at, uh… Correct me if I’m wrong. We’re discussing, or things we need to consider is what– how many years we’re addressing, and then what are the options that we would

2:23:57 be putting forward. So, you know, I look at it from a perspective of you could have a one, two, three, seven, whatever, you know, ten-year option or whatever you’re putting forward, and then what are the categories within that option. And- Yeah … you know, obviously, like one of the choices you brought forward, you know, you know, an option there which was not successful. So I, having gone through that exercise, I’m not a fan of that. But I do think in light of all the recent changes that have happened, it does make more sense to have looked at putting forward, you know, what is the bare minimum type and then slash what would it look like to do some of the projects that we’ve

2:24:44 been hoping to do. So yeah, I mean, I think a couple choices allows some flexibility. So I do support that part, if that’s the question so far on the table. What is the first item? Well, I, I’m in favor of a restoration override only for this year with multiple questions allowing the town to select what they restore from the cuts that we’re facing and what we’re not. And that’s it this year. Doesn’t mean that we can’t present projections for future years in anticipation of, you know, potential future overrides and, and perhaps anticipate cost drivers that we can identify, you know, now in the

2:25:29 future. I think the idea of voting on multiple year overrides is, you know, I used to do projections for a living and in a business context, things are very clear, and you’re still providing a range around what you’re, what you’re, you know, where you could give them. So I’m not at this point in favor of a multi-year override. I’m in favor of a one-year restoration override with many, with many options. With many options. So you’re just saying you want one option- One override … with, with, with- With multiple- With multiple- One- One, one year with- One objective of the over… I guess that’s the best way to put it. One objective of the override. Yeah. No, you’re good. One objective of the override is to restore the budget. And, and one of the reasons I think it’s a good idea

2:26:18 is because-We do have a big free cash number that we’re not gonna feel next year, so it’s gonna give us a little bit of, you know, leeway in the, in the next year’s budget. Okay, Jim, I think you want to give it a- Can we, can we put the slide back up? ‘Cause I think there was multiple things going on that I haven’t had time to- Well, no, we’re just– that’s why we’re stopping here until we go to the next level. No, no, no, no. But I, I was talking about tiers, but I, I, I didn’t have a chance to look at it. There’s also multi years, which are completely different discussions to- That’s why, well, that’s why I didn’t go there yet. Right. Okay. Because… So I didn’t agree with that. Level, duration. I just said- No one’s agreed with you. I’m gonna say it’s choices. I just think that’s three- These won’t change. It’s just like, those are the three things we need to decide. Yeah. Is, is level, duration, and what’s included. Got it. So Moses, you are for a one-year restore with

2:27:06 options for one year. The objective of the override is to restore this year’s, you know, costs that we would anticipate. So we’re tying the override to the costs, to restore the costs that we would otherwise have to make the budget. See what I’m saying? Right. So it, it becomes a negative option in my view. Director Washburn? So I

2:27:30 am going to say I’m against that because one of the biggest, biggest criticisms, well, maybe it wasn’t the biggest, but it was one of the criticisms that we received in twenty twenty-three was that’s exactly what we did. We put forward that restorative with the projections that you’re asking for, you know, a la fulls. We set up a town meeting and, you know, twenty twenty-two, twenty twenty-three, we put that forward, and that was one of the criticisms that came back, is that, you know- There were no menu options … the– no, no, no. I’m not talking about the m-menu options. I’m talking about the concept of doing the one-year restorative, because then one of the criticisms that came forward is that we weren’t looking at a, you know, two or three-year plan. People didn’t want us coming back the next year. I– based on what, you know, you’re bringing up in regards to the free cash, we

2:28:17 can factor that in to an equation. We have the, the building, you know, we have the building commissioner in place. We have the i– the capability now, I think, to look forward and have a s– you know, a very effective capital plan that we could put those costs up. And I think coming back potentially in a, you know, a year from now with presenting the same situation, I don’t– and like I said, it didn’t work prior. I don’t think that that’s something that I support. Well, listen, I think, I think we just respond to you. And I, I– look, your point’s well taken. I’m just– I think that the, that the town wants the choice. They vote on whether to fund certain cost drivers every year. And I– that’s what I, that’s what I’m saying. I think that

2:29:04 doing projections, you know, it may, it, it may fly, but I think we can offer that as another override question. If you want to kind of add to the restore, you know, the, the, the restore question, we can add additional, you know, an additional override that anticipates fee. But blending it all together, I think is, is risky. So I think we need to first restore, and then if we want to have an override that addresses future years, we can add to that restorative budget. Yes. Okay. Yes. So what I’m doing, again, we’ve got to give the town choices, you know? We-we-we– I think everyone here agrees to giving the town choices. I think I’m hearing that from everybody. You know, giving the town choices. How about in terms of tiers? Well- You’re, you’re not– you say there’s– let’s say

2:29:51 there’s, there’s different levels of, of– so like tier three, which would be the most conservative, smallest number, like a tier three option is a one-year restore. A tier two- With, with, with menus. Yeah. Or with multiple questions. A tier two would be restore plus. Would, would be restore plus. And a tier three would be tier two plus. That’s cool. Or whatever. And then, and then- That’s kind of what I had started out. Right. No, right. That’s fair enough. Yeah. ‘Cause I think what you’re doing, as long as you’re giving the town, I think it’s, it’s an– that’s a great way to present. I don’t think they’re gonna pass, but actually it’s a very good thought. I think that thought process should be gone through anyway. You know, whether we present it, without a, without an override vote or whether we encapsulate those future years in other override questions, I think that’s– you know, that, that makes sense to me.

2:30:39 But I think we, we really wanna focus on that restore budget in the current year, because I think that’s what most homeowners are gonna wanna understand. This Orleans option is an interesting one to make, where you’re voting– where the Orleans option, where you’re voting on a tier, and then you have options to vote for the future years as well. So, I mean, I don’t know enough. I would like to learn a little bit on what, what this one looked like. I had never heard of that one because it does give the option, if you’re talking about giving a lot of decisions- Right … to do for multi-year, and they can vote the years as well. It’s, it’s an interesting sort of hybrid of the two. Yeah. I mean, I’m, I’m personally in favor of, of, of doing– of, of– I don’t wanna be back here next year in the

2:31:24 same spot. One year problem. It’s– I don’t wanna solve this for one year- Okay … and have it become… This is my personal opinion. No, no, no. Right? No, I agree. So, and I, I– and I think it’s been since two thousand and five since we’ve passed an override. Yeah. So I think I would like to go for a shot here where we solve at least three years. Okay. Right? What I would, what I would suggest, look, I think the further out you project- Yeah … the less you’re tied to cost drivers that are actually real, by any generalist, the further out you go. Having said that, I think the restore budget is very clear because it’s like, no kidding, these are the real numbers. Mm-hmm. We need to restore these numbers if you want X, Y, and Z services. That– get that out of the way, that’s fine. So to address your question, I think it’s really, you know, if we– you know, for me, it’s all about identifying real costs that people can

2:32:09 believe in. Mm-hmm. So if, let’s say, next year we know that the school contract numbers are gonna be a key cost driver, if we can anticipate those now and ha- and vote on them now, that, I think is a credible thing to do, right? Because you’re identifying that cost. Mm-hmm Well, that’s my question. In the out years, how are you quantifying? Yeah. Are, are you using just a model? Sure. I know- Or, or are you identifying- Well, we have contractual obligations. Right. That, we- We can make some assumptions on- Assumptions … health, health insurance. So I think I’m not, I’m not… I don’t want to pick a random number. I want to start with every store- Yeah … and look at what we can expect from growth, and we can make it… I mean, I think that if we look back, we’ve had a pretty, a good historic project. If, if you look at back at the projections that have been made, they’ve come pretty damn true as far as where we would be.

2:32:56 There’s always going to be variation, right? Mm-hmm. And I don’t want to look back 10 years. I want to look back two or three years, and we can project those forward to look at, to look at those. And then people could, could believe it or not. Right? Well, I think, by the way, don’t, don’t interpret- Yeah. I, I always believe that projecting is a very good and important exercise, so I’m not- Mm-hmm. You know, I’m, I just, you know, I think you’re gonna stretch the, the, the credulity of, of the voters to kind of expect them to vote on a three to four-year budget. You know, that, that’s going to be a stretch for most people. But yeah, I mean- So- I, I still- Yeah … I don’t think it hurts to present that optionality, so maybe we do it. So, so I think I, I don’t… If we’re gonna con- start to add optionality here, I think I’m, I’m, I’m torn between the

2:33:41 Melrose and I think somewhere else you said. The Melrose and the Stoneham on two versus three tiers. It feels like the more optionality you add in different tiers, it’s like a- More like layers It’s like- It’s like a menu. You can select which, that function. It’s, it’s, it’s, it’s performing that function. The question is how many, how many different tiers do we want to provide- Right … right, before it turns into a five-page, you know, option- Yeah … option there. Well, you know, I guess the reason I’m so focused on the restore this budget- Mm-hmm … is because it’s such a, it’s when we’re landing, it’s a hard landing, and it’s gonna be really determined for the flag. And I think that’s where we need to really give the town some options, some opportunities to choose what they, what they want the service profile of the town to look like.

2:34:29 And I think putting that before the people is actually a very useful thing to do. And the next tier, is there an invest? And, and then the next tier- Is there, an invest? Yes. Yes, student. Uh, I just, hello. Um, I just have a que- in your mind, when you’re using that word restore, does that mean exactly in regards to where we are now? Or does that mean for things that have been cut where our departments- That’s what- … have been lost? That’s what I mean. Be- but been lost bodies for the last couple of years on the town side. You’re not talking about bringing them back up. You’re just saying- No, no, I’m saying, look- You still have to fu- you’re saying you still need to function at the level you’re functioning at right now. Yeah. What we’re saying is, look, we have these deficits- Even though your numbers are low, you got to stay there … because of the different shops, we have a deficit.

2:35:17 We have to cut to, to do a balanced budget, which we’re required to do, you know, by law. We go to the town, you know, and basically say, “Look, we’d like you to restore those cuts that we anticipate making if we didn’t get the override. So help us out here and, and restore those costs.” I think, so what you’re doing is you’re tying very, very directly, you know, the cuts that we’re gonna have to make to the overrun. I think we have to also option or offer the town, I’ve heard from a lot of people who don’t like where we are right now. So I think we have to off- offer them- Yeah. That’s right. A way out. Yeah … a, a way out. So- Yeah … and maybe people will say no, but I think we have to offer- Yeah … whether it’s called an invest or whatever, but there are people who want to see better services in Marblehead. Uh, definitely. So I think that we need to offer that as well. That, I don’t disagree.

2:36:03 So- But what I would suggest- Yeah … is that we, we, we do that with another supplemental tier override or whatever we want to call it. Yeah. Tier one is restore- Is the restore … partially restore, whatever we want to talk about. In my mind, tier two or three, excuse me, is invest in Marblehead or stabilize, whatever words we want to use, right? Jim? So tier three is a, a one-year, and then the other is a, a multi-year. Is that correct? I don’t think, yeah, I don’t think so. I don’t think it’s the… I think that’s what we’re talking about. Well, well, well, I think, I, I think for study purposes, you want to have a one-year and multi-year so we can see what they look like because just reading qualitatively on a paper, piece of paper- Yeah … what Melrose did or Orleans, I have really no idea what they did. So what would you like to see from Patrick?

2:36:49 A, a one-year, if something here, right? A study, something like this. No, a, a, a study. Okay. What is a one-year- Yeah … restorative look and what is a multi-year? Yeah. Because I, I really have no idea what they look like. So one year restorative, a multi-year restorative, right? Something along those- Let’s forget about this for now. Yeah. And then, and then another level where if people want to vote to, to add to the quality of Marblehead as well. That, that’s- May- maybe Patrick can help. That’s fine. If he, if he’s got enough bandwidth. I have a matrix in my head. Okay. Seriously. Okay. So you want to tell us about, what that matrix- It’s similar to what Aaron set up. So I think we’re, I think everything’s going towards three tiers. Two or three. Two or three. And, and this is, I, I just want to be clear. No one is saying this is going to town meeting. This is just a study.

2:37:35 No, no, no. We’re, we’re asking him to present us with some options- Okay … so that we can discuss it, that we all can move forward. We need to get feedback. Sure. So, so we have two or three, right? So you have the restore, you have the restore plus invest, and you have, if there’s a third, right? Maybe if there’s a third. And we can run the numbers of all of those on a one-year basis, slide over to the next grid, same categories, multiple years. Mm-hmm. And then, and then you, you can pick from the grid- So you pass the first one and vote, you know, we, we get- No, this is the, this is the analysis- Let’s just get the analysis … decision-making grid. We’re just gonna bring back- ‘Cause it’s gonna be the lowest tier restore is single year. Yeah. The highest tier is multi-year.

2:38:21 Including the, including the first year? Yeah. Yeah. So they’re successive, right? And then the, the top tier would be-Probably easily that’s the multi-year option. Then the question is, that middle one, which way do you want to go? But you have, you have three choices. Okay. Well, I guess- It builds on what came up. Well, yes. Yes. Yeah. No, what I’m saying is… Well, the thing is, is that this is why I think identifying cost drivers is so important. Pretty good. Sorry. Let him up. That’s fine. Oh. It’s all right. This is why I think identifying cost drivers is so important because, you know, if you do, let’s say, we put to the, to the, to the appropriation body a restorative override, like tier one, and they vote, let’s say they vote the entire, the, the whole

2:39:07 entire restoration down. So now we’re, you know, we’re good to go. Um, now there’s another tier, right? And that tier includes something in the future that’s over and above that initial budget, right? Is what you’re saying. Because I think we want to resolve the restorative budget first at town meeting, and then move to another multi-year question where we’re- And- Now, now, because I want to make, make that… Because I- if we present just a restorative and then a restorative plus and then a restorative plus plus, right, to vote on, that’s not the same thing. So the whole purpose- Yeah … I’ve actually asked for this conversation is, tell me what you think, say, the, the

2:39:56 options look like so we can run the numbers- All right … to have some- Yeah … idea of what each, however you design it, what those numbers look like. That’s the whole purpose of this conversation, is giving us guidance. Okay. What’s in… If it’s three tiers- Well, what- … what are you trying to achieve in tier one? What are you trying to achieve tier, to achieve tier two? What are you trying to achieve? Based on that, we can run the numbers and fill it in. No. Right. I guess it all depends on the degree of skepticism around how multi-tier is going to go down in the town. So that’s not the discuss- That’s a, that’s the next discussion. No, but it, but it is, but it is, but it is ridiculous. I am, I am shocked. Yeah. I, but what I, I, I think that we definitely need to take care of the restorative one tier, right?

2:40:41 That needs to be taken care of right then. Right. Does anybody not agree with that? Everybody agrees. That we should see what an option is to restore- So that’s the guidance. Take that. That’s for sure. And then help us understand how we can structure over and above a multi-year, or maybe it’s a multi-year- I think we’re all saying the same thing. Yeah. I, I, I think that- I, I think- But I… Yeah. Yeah. I, I think, I think it’s- That’s fine … coming out in some different words, but we’re asking Thacher to come back, starting year one restore, build his matrix, and then- And we get what- And then a multi-year … and we get what we get at town meeting. But let’s not worry about now, town meeting. Let’s just worry about him right now. Well, because- Well, no, I want to step this first, then we can talk about those- I’m thinking that it goes sequences- sequentially, but like- Mm-hmm … it, it- No … the voters have to consider it all at the same time. It’s not like, okay, this and then we go, then we do this.

2:41:26 Right. It’s they’re voting, they see them all side by side. Well, that’s why, and that’s why I’m putting the context of town meeting. And- Yeah … so- See, and, and I, and that’s what I worry. Exactly what you’re saying. I, I guess I worry about… I think that we ought to have a vote on the restorative- But if they would have put it on the ballot, if it was three options, they would only want to see one option. Is that what you’re saying? No, I’m saying that we need to make sure we address the restorative budget, and then if there’s anything over and above that, that for them to consider in future years, we vote on that separately. So, you know, so, so if that fails, if the three-year fails- It goes on as one article at town meeting. Then you can’t do it. We’re worried. It’s, it’s, it’s supplemental funds. Yeah. It’s how- Yeah … it, that’s the placeholder that’s there. Okay. So we- Well, how would we structure- … can’t add another article for a different version of supplemental funds.

2:42:14 Okay. So- The end result is a single number. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And the number, we don’t… The number comes at when we put it on the ballot. Oh, okay. I, I guess. Okay. I mean, I guess. I, I just wonder how we can give, you know, how we can- Well- I, I don’t want a three-year budget to bring down the whole one number. Which I don’t think that that would if we have it as a different option, if we put them as different options. Well, okay. Well, how would we achieve that? Yes. Right. No, y- I, I think I hear what you’re saying. Yeah. You don’t want to say, “If you vote against this, you’re voting against the original.” Right. We would give the different tiers, which we will decide at a future meeting- Right … to make sure, and similar to how another town did it. If we have three different tiers- Right … they vote yes on that one. There’s three questions on it. That passes. And the next two vote, right? We can do that. The second one. We can achieve it with the, with the par- you know, the parliament.

2:43:01 We can do this with, in, in parliamentary rules, I guess, around this, right? I mean, we don’t have to take… It’s not that we’re… We, we’re not introducing other r- we’re using one, you know, one article, right? Town meeting- But- … simply authorizes the select board to put it on the ballot. Right. It’s the select board that designs- Yeah … the actual question. So that’ll be a future conversation. Right question. We can… Right. Question. Yeah. That- So we can discuss that. No, no, I get that. Get that. But I guess you structure the questions in a way that you take one, care of one first, then another, then another, presumably. Are we talking about on the ballot or at that town meeting? That’s a good question. I mean- So I think on the ballot- Let’s just say town meeting for now. Well, town meeting, we can only get authorizations for an override. It gets, um… Now, they will want to be informed as to what you’re looking at

2:43:48 doing. Right. So it would be informational. It’s gonna fail. But the actual action of town meeting is to authorize it going, A question being on the ballot, and then it’s the responsibility of the select board to determine the dollar value, the purpose- Yeah … and the fiscal year. And we’re trying to have that discussion and get it out in public now so they know what we’re thinking. Okay. So I presume- Yeah. Yeah. So we can start getting as much information. So does the town vote on the, on the- Possible funding methods … to vote on the- Mr. Chair? Yes, sir. I’m- Well, at the, I think we have the town moderator over who would like to clarify. Yes. I believe you’d start with, with one article, which would likely be restorative, and have amendments before that to be discussed- No … before, before you get to the

2:44:34 So, so you, so you, you’d put them in, you’d put the amendments in order as how you would like them wrote, because there’s only one article to be heard for, for- And, and so yeah, that’s right … yeah. And I would, I would suggest that that’s the restore- that’s the restoring budget. And I want to run this by council, but- Yeah, I get that … that’s fine. So why don’t we do this for, to, to move this forward so Thatcher can leave this room and start working on his matrix. We are asking, and I, and if I’m stating this wrong, if anybody disputes, want… To start with your matrix, which the starting point is one year of restore. One year. Right? And build off of that. Yep. And we can make some decisions and have some discussions on March 25th. Does that sound reasonable? Sounds good. And then we can, we can go from there, right? And so one year restore is the bottom left or bottom right or

2:45:20 whatever it is- Yeah … of his matrix, and then build it out a year or two, and then let the invest, stabilize, rebuild, whatever you want to call it, is another tier for the multiple years, and then we can decide how we want to move forward. Okay. Because without… And, and seeing, and then we can decide what, what, what is in each of those- Yeah … pockets. So the… Right. So, and so a vote, a, a vote on each question is then taken and moved. Is that what I’m… Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So this is this- Right. How many roll this- I’m sorry. Call it please. Let’s turn on the ballot. Say again? Point of information. This is a priority motion, Chair. Thank you for explaining that. I appreciate that. Yeah. You’re gonna let us… No, hold on, hold on. We don’t have… Hold on, we’re not, we’re not having public comment right now. So that’s okay, thank you. Thank you, we thank you. We’re good right now. We’re in the middle of a conversation.

2:46:06 But- Yeah … it’s one article. Yeah. It’s one article. Yeah. How many… Yay or nay, put a question on the ballot. I don’t… All the constructs that we’re talking about- Mm-hmm … resides here at this point. And then you go to the ballot. We’re just- Let’s- Let’s, let’s, let’s, let’s just take this- Agreed. Let’s take this down. Agreed. We’re, we’re asking you for March 25th to get that information. Yep. Okay? This, the rest of these cons- discussions can happen at that point. In addition. In addition. Thank you. What else could we like? Okay. Specifically say what- So, so- So in addition to- We’re, we’re, we’re still working through them. If you have questions after, I’d be happy to talk to you. Yep. Um, okay. So when we… And like this be… So we’re, we’re the restorative option to me is avoiding these severe cuts.

2:46:52 It’s mostly restoring the staffing cuts that make sense. Okay. You might not, you, you might not bring us every single cut that we restored- Sure … but it’s mostly a restorative budget. I think also that a, a cut that is made in that, that is a basic restore for me is our, which we have the policy on, is the two fifty in the stabilization fund. I think that is part of a restore budget. I don’t know how I feel about that. Well, the question is do we give that option to, to them? We want to see what he wants. We… Like, that- Yes, sure. Sure … like, what do we want him to show us? I would like him to see, I would like to include the stabilization fund two fifty in there, because- As he- … that’s, that’s to me is a regular line item. We’ve set a policy of it. To me, it’s just like restoring a position. Like, so I feel like a two fifty stabilization

2:47:40 contribution that we haven’t been able to make or that we wouldn’t make in the balanced budget is what it is in a restore budget, because if we have to build that fund, it’s low. So, okay, that’s what I feel like a fair restore budget. Yeah. So then if we did reversions, my, I would propose that our next tier be some version of a stabilized budget, a budget that restores plus, so it’s the lower tier plus. It protects and sustains essential services through FY twenty-nine. It would re- restore prior service cuts over the past few years of level funding where we’ve had, attrition and where appropriate. I’m not saying we’re restoring every cut or vacancy.

2:48:27 Like, but where appropriate, let’s res- let’s recognize we made cuts to get here. Um, I would like to see annual maintenance funding in this budget, including vehicles and where we can actually establish some type of an actual maintenance department. I would like us to address public safety staffing levels and, you know, back to the point of attrition that we’ve had to get to this point. I would like us to look at returning one or two police officers to go from, you know, return us back to thirty-two officers where we were pre FY twenty-five, and review the firefighter positions to address the OT. So that’s in your upper levels. This is in the stabilized, yeah. This is in your second level. Beyond, yeah. Okay. And then I would also like, we have this compensation study,

2:49:15 right? We need to implement it. Can’t afford to implement it. So I, if we wanna, I think we need to correct our salaries. We have the comp study. We need to update, we need to implement the compensation study and update the salaries. Okay. And my- That’s my statement … we can come back with these, and then we can, we can- It’s just to look at … we can, we can, we can verify them. Let’s come back with the options and go from there. Perfectly reasonable. Yeah. We’re just saying, it’s just the mechanics. I want, wanna make sure that we’ll- Yes, I totally- Because you’ve i- you’ve identified a bunch of cost drivers, right? They’re, they’re out there in the picture a little bit. Yeah. So, but I think it’s still feasible. And I hear you on the mechanics. Yeah. And then once we- Hold on one sec. I think Alexa had something that… Did you want to say something else? Yeah, I just was curious in regards to just what Aaron was bringing up, because I think we’ve thrown so many thi- ideas out, I’m trying to make sure I have some

2:50:02 clarity here. So what is the direction to Thatcher right now? What we have on the table is that we’re looking at one option would be restoring the budget, but not for a multi-year or a two, three year- No. Just- One year … four years. Okay. So- I think it’s starting point. If, if you’re gonna build this, an override, you have to start at what it looks like on one year and build off of that. So all right, so we’re talking about one year, and then what that would look… I’m just giving a number too, like say two or three years. Let’s say three years. And then- You’re talking about kind of an intermediate level. Mm-hmm. And then we’re talking about like what would that be to

2:50:48 invest? Like for example, you know, what do the departments need where, you know, we’re not having all this attrition or people, you know, le- yeah, giving, giving the services that would invest in the departments and the, and the services and the pro- programs we want to move forward. So are we giving that direction right now? That’s what we’re talking about right now. Okay. I just want to just- Yeah. I’m just telling you specifics. That’s why- And place the starters. This is what I ask. This is what Erin is suggesting, and then if people wanna add to it, we could try to- People can agree or disagree, just so there’s some place for us to go. Got it. Okay. So a mid-sized tier would be a stabilization for three years of, you know, protecting and sustaining essential services for what we, you know-

2:51:34 For augmenting. Uh, right. And then when we- then if we wanted to do, add like additional layer of what I would consider an invest and plan for the future type of option for the voters, that would be a forward-looking, modernize and improve our service offerings, align us with neighboring communities. This in a stabilized plus, so this would be like the invest enhance. That would include, for me, like, you know, we usually borrow it from free cash, but I think we should fund the million-dollar capital budget line, so we have our annual capital needs that are not debt exclusions, but they’re HVAC replacements, stairs, leaky roof, whatever. I would also ask that in that invest in, that requires conversations with our department heads

2:52:23 around what they would… what that would look like. So you go and sit with each department head, Jamie or public safety, what… and, and try to, try to do some analysis of like what are their ideas for what they hear the community needs that they can’t do, and what would it take for us to provide those? And they’re in the best positions to, um- This is the third one. This would be like the- Third frame. Yeah … the top. Yeah. So, and then I would just… Yeah. And so do we wanna… I mean, I hear constantly about increasing our capacity to address the roads. So I mean, like, do we wanna have… I, I think that, like, again, to that point, like, we want– do we wanna increase staffing at DPW? You know, it’s like, I’m sure, you know, our, Jamie

2:53:11 Block would have ideas about maybe it’s restoring lifeguards that we haven’t had for a long time. That’s been a budget for a long time. Maybe that’s a tier, maybe that’s tier one. I don’t know. Whatever. I saw my- Okay. They will know. You guys know what you hear. So, so that’s just- Do you, do you feel like you have enough information from that? Right. I feel like we could go in circles here all night. But do people agree with that though? That’s just my like- I am on board. I think that- Yeah … that, that gets a big range. Right. And then we can narrow it down once he comes to us and shows us the numbers- Sure … and what that looks like and what the service is, and we can make some decisions on what we think is a good strategy moving forward. I would just add a little, a little, comment to that. I think there’s… We need to continue to make a distinction between capital expenditures-

2:53:57 Mm-hmm … and kind of like operate, because this is the- Right … it’s overlapping. Yeah. Right. Right. So typically, the way we fund- Yeah. Fair point. The way we’ve maintained discipline around capital expenditures- Mm-hmm … is that we’ve run them all pretty much through debt exclusion overrides. Yeah. So it’s a function of our debt capacity. So, and you know- Mm-hmm … with the high school coming off, we have additional debt capacity. So if we’re kind of limited by debt capacity, but the town has had like a, I don’t know, like a ninety-five percent success rate- Mm-hmm … in terms of getting, you know, debt, debt exclusions. I think she’s talking about maintenance. Okay. Yeah. HVAC system replacement. But that’s a, that’s a capital. It’s capital. Well, let’s see. Okay. You, you tell me what capital is. You wouldn’t do it in that exclusion for like- If, if it has a depreciable life, then it’s a capital expenditure, right?

2:54:42 Right. Maintenance is not a depreciable. But we, we’ve been, the last couple years when we had free CAF, we were allocating a million of free CAF. Yeah. Each year. Right? That’s true. So we have a needs list of- For sure. Right … that’s longer than- Right. Right? Yeah. And we had a million dollars, so we went, prioritized, went down a million. But you know, there is a mechanism, right? Because we have buildings and vehicles bond every year. It’s that, that- They get funded every year. That’s the question. So that would be the me- the mechanism- We have to fund it. We have to- That would be the mechanism for funding it. Right. So, so we already have that vehicle, you know, for this tier. We don’t, you know, maybe it, it gets, you know, gets extended at that time. We only have the dollars- I was gonna say, we don’t have the money to fund that. So I think what Erin said- Yeah, that’s right … is fund, fund, fund that line item. Yep, yep, yep. Right? That part. Yeah. Yep, exactly. All right. Do we have- But we do fund it. I think the article actually does fund it.

2:55:28 But not this year. I mean, we- Yeah, that’s right. Yeah, I think. That’s another- So, so that would be a build or restore. That, that- Alexa. Shh. Yeah. So, I mean, this is like, I, I’ve lost track of my weeks at this point, but yes. So I think several weeks ago, that was my request, was to see this information from the department specifically and to look at the, the capital projects, just, you know, making sure we’re, funding those things that we can, looking at… and I think in a higher l- tier, looking at things like, you know, even that we have the option for capital project, like stabilization funding, which allows us to even save more money versus a debt exclusion. You know, it’d be great to see, you know, how we have the option to pivot to those

2:56:14 types of things if we were funding it, proactively. And then I would like to… You know, I think we– and I hear a lot of questions just in regards to, you know, I would like to know from the departments if we were looking at, you know, if we– what, what are the– what does the police department need? What is, you know, what does fire department need in regards to not having, you know, overtime concerns or, you know, with the police department being able, you know, to have someone who is, you know, back on, you know, patrolling more on bikes or having them, you know, boots on the ground, those types of things. What is- What is that number? What are we looking at? And what would that cost be to the community? Those are some of the things that, and like I said, you know, a lot of the department heads are here, but you, you know, they know their departments.

2:57:01 They know what that would be. So I think for us to make a decision to put forward to the town of what, what would be those services that, you know, I’ve heard for five or six years that people would like to see us provide, so. So let’s give the town that option then. Yeah. I think that’s fair. That’s- Yep. Yeah. That’s, I think, part of our due diligence there, absolutely. Okay. Do we need more discussion? Do you feel like you have good marching orders on comeback? So I just want to clarify one thing. Sure. So Thatcher will detail these somehow. In, in, the idea is if we did go forward with this, all three tiers would be voted on at town meetings. Is that correct? No, let’s just focus on this right now, okay? Let’s just focus on getting here, and we’ll have that discussion- Okay. Yeah. That’s what it said.

2:57:46 That’s what it said on Thatcher’s handout, but there you go. Okay. Cool. I think let’s get this information. Okay. We might end up with one tier. So let’s just… Like, that’s what I’m saying. We might end up with two tiers. Okay. Let’s, let’s, let’s- Well, we start. Well, okay. Let’s, let’s narrow it down to where we end up. That’s why- And, and then we can see- That’s why I asked the question. Yeah. ‘Cause it was not clear, because a lot of people have stuff in their heads, and I can’t read minds. I thought you could. Okay. All right. I think we are moving on. Correct? Let’s go. Let’s go. But wait, but to where? To our next agenda item. Uh, no. Okay, well, that, you, I- A lot of- I just asked if you had more questions. I didn’t know if it was on- Okay … your discussion- On, on the budget or the override … a lot of people have asked about menu driven.

2:58:31 We are gonna talk about that. Again, this is the step to bring us- Well, when are we gonna talk? Once Thatcher brings this to us, we’re gonna talk about it. Oh, okay. Yeah. It’s just- Yeah. I, I, it’s not clear from any of the stuff. Just forget about the piece of paper right now. Yeah. Forget about this piece of paper. Thatcher has been asked, I think, by this board, unless at, at least by some of us, to come up with some different options for us. Okay. And then we can get into the, the down and dirty to- Okay … to step five. So we are not- There will be a discussion about menu options. There will be a discussion about every option. Okay. Yep. It’s not clear. Every option on here or like… I don’t know if we- Any option you wanna talk about. Okay. Okay? That’s, this is our job, to, to drive him to ask the questions, to provide the options. I, I’ve heard from a lot of people in the community about the menu options. Okay. Then, then, then I think that we should have that conversation next time for

2:59:18 sure. Okay. Yep, absolutely. Is there anybody else who would like to speak before we move on out to num- to number four, licensing? Okay. We’re gonna move on to four, licensing, annual renewal, seasonal license of Dolphin. We do have an alcohol beverage license seasonal renewal for Dolphins. You guys can just try to be quiet as we leave here. Um, if I could have, if I could have a motion. Guys, could you try, just please, just, we just do have a little more business, so if you could just try to keep it down, I’d appreciate it, so we can all go home and, as well. Um, so we do have alcohol beverage license for the Dolphin Yacht Club. Um,

3:00:02 if I could have a motion to renew the following all alcohol seasonal club license, subject to all taxes and fees to the town being paid, receipt of all applicable department approvals, core approval, and compliance with Chapter 304 of the Act of 2004, Dolphin Yacht Club, 17 Alton Place, Manager Scott Kelly. So moved. Can I have a second, please? Second. Okay. This will be a poll vote. Mr. Zisson? In favor. Ms. Simon? In favor. Ms. Ewing? In favor. Mr. Gray? In favor. Mr. Falk? In favor. We also have another license for the local Sunday entertainment license D- Dolphin Yacht Club as well. Do I have a motion made and seconded to renew the following local Sunday entertainment license, subject to all tax and fees of the town being paid, and approval from the

3:00:48 Commonwealth’s Department of Public Safety for Sunday ef- entertainment, Dolphin Yacht Club, 17 Alton Place? So moved. Can I have a second? Second. All in favor? Anyone opposed? Looks like that passed too. We are moving on to number five, Company of Heroes 5K. We do have a map behind there. This was Company of Heroes sent us a letter that they’re writing today to request September 12th, 2026 as a date for their annual 5K. The race will start at 9:00 AM at VFW in West Shore and will loop through town and end up at VFW. They expect 150 people to attend. This is a fundraiser they’ve done in the past, and they use the money to train service dogs for veterans suffering from PTSD. Any questions on it? Great. I have a motion to approve a

3:01:34 request from Claudette Mason, board member, Company of the Heroes, to hold the annual 5K Run Walk Rock in town on Saturday, September 12th, 2026, subject to receipt of acquired certificate of insurance naming the town as additionally insured in approval from Marblehead Police and Fire, and police details as determined by Marblehead Police. No permanent markings are allowed on the streets, and all temporary markings shall be removed at the conclusion of the event. Second. So moved. All right. Second. All in favor? Okay, moving on. Thatcher, if you wanna run with this one. Yeah. In order for us to continue to be eligible for DEP grants through the Sustainable Materials Recovery Program, which we do apply for, we have to have an acceptance of a, a sustainability purchasing policy, which basically

3:02:22 is just some tweaking of our existing policies on, you know, reusable purchasing and such. Um, it’s, where feasible and, you know, where possible to do things in a certain way. There is nothing overly burdensome. So if you vote to approve accepting this policy, we can continue receiving grant monies through the DEP. And I see whenever feasible- Yeah, yeah … as the big condition here. Yeah. Anybody had a chance to look at this? Yep. Yeah.If I could have a motion to adopt sustainable purchasing policy as, as presented in order for the town to be eligible to apply for Sustainable Materials Recovery Program, SMRP, grant through the Massachusetts Department of Environmental Protection.

3:03:08 So moved. Do I have a second point of view? I’ll second. All right, beautiful. All in favor. Looks like we have unanimous select board announcements. I do have one announcement to make. We have a vacancy in Affordable Housing Trust Fund. Um, so why don’t we set a deadline to apply? Why don’t we– we have a pretty busy schedule here. Why don’t we set it f-for interviews of… Let’s go the end of April for interviews. Uh, if everyone’s okay, our April twenty-second meeting. And why don’t we set the seventeenth? Kyle, are you good with the seventeenth as a deadline for applications, or do we wanna do this quicker? Okay. So I’m, I’m, I’m seeing it speed it up for some reason. I’m gonna trust that there’s a reason for that.

3:03:53 Why don’t we do April eighth? I mean, it’s, gives, it gives less than a month for applications, huh? Yeah. Okay. So April eighth, and we will- Set it- If we don’t get it, why don’t we set the third for applications due, interviews on the eighth? Yeah. Okay. Any other announcements? Yes. Yes. Last week, the, full committee recognized the passing of- Thank you … Bob Whitewood, and I think it would just be appropriate since he was involved, town-wide in so many things that, we do as well, and very sad, so. Do you wanna make a motion to recommend the select board send a- Sure, sure … a letter of appreciation for his dedication and service to the town, to his family? So moved. Second. Okay. All in favor? Okay. Anything else?

3:04:40 I have an announcement. Um, so I’ve worked with, Lisa Hooper and Jamie Block at the community center to set up a, forum for the department heads to engage in community engagement, on April ninth, ten AM to twelve PM. Just an opportunity for the department heads to, present, like, who’s in their department, what their operations are, what their priorities and what they’ve been focusing on of, of late, and, you know, talk about any projects they have going on. And then also the opportunity to talk about any challenges that they might be facing. Uh, so each pers- you know, each department head will have an opportunity to kind of give some type of a presentation or scen– like, a summary

3:05:27 of the, of their department, and then just a q&a with, attendees. And, I, I think we, we have most could attend the April ninth. I know, the chief’s away at a, a important conference, so, he’ll send somebody in instead. And- Yeah. Okay. And, I was considering also including, the public. I don’t think people have met the new light commissioner, and I was considering inviting the superintendent. Just an opportunity for community members to meet their department heads and, get some behind-the-scenes, town hall. And, I think I would not mind if, if people are interested in attending. We can post it as, also as a select board meeting for that time, just if we wanted

3:06:14 to attend. I’m happy… Thatcher will be away because he has pre-arranged, commitment, but I’m happy to facilitate, facilitate it in terms of making the boost of department heads, uh. Would appreciate you setting that up. Like it would be helpful to the community, especially given what we’re looking at, so they can understand some of the challenges that they face. And be flexible. Yeah. Great. Thank you. Anybody else? If I could have a motion to adjourn. So moved. Second. All in favor.