Select Board: July 8, 2026

Transcript captured from MHTV’s Vimeo auto-captioning. No speaker labels; proper names and dollar figures occasionally misheard. Click any timecode to jump to that moment in the source video.

0:01 I’d like to call the meeting of Wednesday, July 7th, Selectboard, to order. This meeting is being recorded. We’re going to open up with public comment. We have a fair amount of people here. I’d ask that you keep your comments to three minutes, please. If you’d like to make public comment, come on up. State your name and your address, please. Yeah. Bob Roberta, 36 Chestnut Street. Just a little unfinished business with the Glover reunion here. They wanted to make sure that the select persons all got a challenge coin, which I have. Awesome. Thank you. I’m sorry, Colonel, I don’t have one for you, but I’ll get one. Oh, thank you, Bob. That was a great event. I know I attended downstairs- See you … some great gentlemen. Thank you. The crew had a great time. Awesome. Thank you. They’ll probably come back to- Thank you, Bob … to Marblehead. That’s great. Again, if you want a group of sailors. But they loved the museum, so bravo Zulu on whoever put that together. I think they bought out the place. Anyway, so thank you very much for all of that, and they’ll be back. They loved the food, and they never made it up to the fort, and I was waiting for them. Thanks for organizing it, Bob. Yeah, it was very well organized. I know, appreciated by them. Anybody else? Let’s go.

1:33 Bonnie Carey, 24 Shepherd Street. On June 26th, I just noticed that you guys posted a second treasurer collector’s job. So that will make five full-time employees there making a thousand K plus benefits, and this job was never posted in the budget. So they should just eliminate that position and save the money and… I was always told, “When you get your money, you save half and put some in the bank,” and we do not need another five full-time employees at the treasurer collector. It’s awful. We don’t need it. Thank you. All right. Anybody else like to speak? Hey, folks. Kurt James, Norman Street. I understand you’re going to be considering an RFP for the Coffin School, so I just wanted to say a few words in support of a 100% affordable housing project there. Just for interest of full disclosure, I am on the housing committee. I do run a business in town that focuses on affordable housing finance and development, and I’m on the board of a couple nonprofit developers, including the Marblehead Community Housing Corp. So I just want to make that clear in terms of my interests. That having been said, we do have a desperate need for affordable housing in town and not very many opportunities to satisfy that

3:04 need, and I think Coffin School would be a really good opportunity for us to try to realize on that. In terms of specifics, I do hope that when you consider the RFP, that you give priority to a nonprofit developer that would do 100% affordable, and something in the scale of 40 units. So something in the scale of what the Nashon School and Swampscott did, that the Benay Breath developed. That turned out to be a really nice project. It’s certainly going to be a lot less traffic than the school provided, the density. It’s not going to be a huge, massive, scaled project. I think you’ve got a site plan for a develop that would be along that scale. Unfortunately, I think if we don’t prioritize those interests, we’re going to end up with something like that 20-unit project on Green Street, right on the corner there, which doesn’t do anything for affordable housing. They’re going for around $800,000 a unit, and that is not affordable for folks in town. I think we really owe an obligation to our veterans, our elderly folks on limited incomes, our young families, town employees, et cetera. So I appreciate your interest. Thanks. Thanks, Kurt. Anybody else?

4:26 Albert Jordan, Roosevelt Avenue. I just hope we can move this Coffin School site along. I was going to bring it up tonight because it’s been over a year since town meeting. So whatever you’re going to do with it, let’s get the proposals out. Let’s see what comes in. Let’s put something there instead of letting the building be a fire trap. It’s an eyesore. And I’d just like to see something done before Thatcher leaves, some type of decision. We’ll call it the Thatcher going away- Present … present. But I’d like to see something there because it’s been sitting there another year. It’s been sitting there over three years. And let’s do something instead of let it deteriorate, and let’s try to satisfy some of the people of Marblehead. We’re not going to satisfy everyone. I don’t want to see a huge development. I don’t want to see 80 units over there, one of the proposals, but something reasonable for the neighbors. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Jordan. Anybody else? I don’t see anything. All right. We will close public comment. Welcome back, Thatcher, the bionic man. I’m sorry. Only $3 million because I only got one hip done. That’s all there you got. Town administrator update. Yeah. So, this is my first day coming back into the fold, so playing catch up on a lot of things. So for my update, and I put in the memo,

5:57 sort of the big highlight was the very successful 4th of July fireworks So this was sort of a plus-up fireworks for the 250th celebration. Now, as I think it’s been stated, we didn’t have the option to go to bigger fireworks, and it’s the nature of the location of the barge, size of the harbor. In order to go bigger, we’d have to move the barge further out to sea. But my understanding, because I wasn’t able to attend, was it was an outstanding show. Some new colorful highlights. So, great job. Special shout-out to Alexander Falk, who’s chair of the fireworks committee and lead fundraiser for this event. As you know, we raise funds for the cost of the fireworks, and the flares are covered by donations. So shout-out to Alexander and the work he did, and the whole committee, the fireworks committee, which includes myself, police chief, fire chief, harbormaster, rec and park director. Who am I missing? Jamie. Jamie. I’m missing somebody else in the room. I think Amy. Oh, Amy in public works. Amy McCue. McCue. Yeah. So, we start meeting well in advance,

7:29 start planning all the logistics. There is a lot of logistics that goes into that whole effort to make it look effortless in the end. And finally, to the community that turned out, great event. I did learn something from this year’s fireworks. So in my four years I’ve been here, we’ve had one fireworks into the fog bank. We had fireworks canceled due to the barge fire. So my record’s not that great. So I was recovering in Amesbury on the 4th of July. The Amesbury fireworks was shut down on that night because we had severe thunderstorms at our location. The clouds parted and spared Marblehead- … from the storm. So I figured out where the problem lies. It’s wherever I go. So, hopefully that will have an impact going forward. So with that, that’s my update for tonight. Thank you. Welcome back, and hopefully you stay out of town on July 4th- Yeah … in future. I’ll stay out. All right. All right. Up next, we’ve got Brendan Callahan to talk about Coffin School update and discussion of potential RFP. Good evening. Good evening. How are we doing, Brendan? Moses. Figured I’d give this all to you guys for the end. So just going to kind of go through, again, it’s going to be a little redundant. Kind of a brief summary of everything you guys have heard before.

9:00 But I think you’ll notice there’s a theme between everything, and I think that’s important in the long run because there’s some sort of agreement amongst a lot of the community. So I just want to, again, I’m just going to go through my notes really fast, as quick as possible, try to get to the end with the questions. Get some direction from you guys on what maybe how the RFP is drafted, what sort of narrative you want in it. And so again, I’m just going to go through purpose of tonight’s discussion is to begin a conversation regarding the future or reuse of the redevelopment of the former Coffin School property, and to seek select board guidance on the goals and priorities that should shape a future RFP. Not seeking a decision on a specific redevelopment option or a developer. Goal is to discuss the work completed to date, community priorities and concerns, potential redevelopment opportunities, zoning and permitting considerations, and the public benefits the town should seek through a future redevelopment process. For issuing an RFP, it is important that the town clearly define what it hopes to accomplish with the property and establish the criteria by which redevelopment proposals should be evaluated. Again, there may be some redundancy in my notes, but I do think it’s important that we hear them. After I go through reading my notes, I’m open to this for a discussion. So, some background.

10:31 Since the select board assumed care and custody and control of the property, the town has completed several steps to better understand the potential reuse opportunities. In the fall of 2025, the department issued an expression of interest to the town departments and a request for information to nonprofit and for-profit organizations. The town received several concepts through this process, including cemetery expansion, Marblehead Housing Authority for affordable housing, recreational parks, dog park concept, municipal reuse such as a temporary boat storage, battery storage area for Marblehead Municipal Light Plant. There’s in a private affordable housing proposal which came from Harborlights, a non-private affordable housing proposal, which proposed approximately 42 units through the reuse of the existing building and additional construction while maintaining open space that could either remain under the town control or allow public access. The town also conducted community engagement meetings with neighborhood abutters in the broader Marblehead community. The discussion generated valuable feedback regarding potential redevelopment opportunities and concerns. The most concerns raised included scale and density development, traffic impacts, construction impacts, particularly concerning regarding impacts to neighboring foundations, concentration of affordable housing in one area of town,

12:03 and preservation of neighborhood character. At the same time, there was a recognition that the property could provide opportunities to address community needs, including senior housing, workforce housing, affordable housing, and public amenities. In addition, during this time, the town completed the hazardous building materials investigation to better understand the environmental conditions. The investigation confirmed the presence of asbestos and lead-based materials and provided preliminary cost estimates that will be important in evaluating redevelop proposals. Estimated costs included demolition of the annex building, the cost approximately 340 to 460,000 plus design and construction costs. Full building demolition of both buildings, approximately 930,000 to 1.2 million plus design and construction. Again, these costs will be an important consideration when evaluating proposals, determining responsibility for environmental remediation, and understanding redevelopment feasibility. In the winter, spring of 2026, as you know, we worked with UConn TAB program for the site to develop the site reuse assessment for the Coffin School. Purpose of the assessment was to identify feasible redevelopment strategies that considered community needs, housing opportunities, open space preservation, site limitations, and neighborhood compatibility. Yeah. The assessment identified potential opportunities, again, affordable and workforce housing, senior housing, public amenities and open

13:36 space, returning an underutilized municipal property to productive use, and supporting the town’s housing goals. It’s important to note that the site reuse assessment was a planning-level study. It did not evaluate final development costs, property value, economic benefits to the town, full traffic impacts, or complete development feasibility. Those issues would need to be evaluated through a future redevelopment process if decided. Community priorities and redevelopment considerations. Areas of common support. There was a broad agreement that redevelopment should be thoughtful and appropriately scaled, compatible with the surrounding residential neighborhood. Supported by high-quality design, landscaping, and site planning, inclusive and meaningful open space and public access opportunities. There was also a shared desire to minimize traffic impacts, construction impacts, excessive density, and development that does not respect neighborhood character. There was differences in perspectives. Town staff supported opportunities for senior housing, workforce housing, municipal employee housing, adaptive reuse of the existing building. Abutters expressed concerns regarding density, traffic, construction impacts, and concentration of affordable housing, supported preservation, transparency, and continued involvement in the redevelopment decisions. Housing advocates supported mixed-income housing and affordable housing opportunities, emphasized the importance of high-quality design

15:09 and integration in the neighborhood. These priorities should directly inform the requirements and evaluation criteria of a future RFP. Other things that haven’t really been talked about too much is the zoning and permitting considerations. Important consideration moving forward is ensuring that any redevelopment concept included in RFP is realistic and achievable. As you know, the property is loaded in the single-residence district. Our current zoning, single-family homes are permitted by right. Duplex, two-family housing may require incentive zoning approval through the planning board. Multifamily housing would require additional zoning relief, likely to include a zoning amendment. Based on the redevelopment concepts evaluated, future redevelopment would likely require planning board site plan review special permit, and potentially incentive zoning approval through the planning board. They’ll play an important role in reviewing the projects. My recommendation is that we engage with the planning board early in this process to ensure that any RFP reflects realistic development scenarios and predictable permitting pathways. The town should avoid selecting a redevelopment proposal that requires significant zoning relief that has not been evaluated or supported. Again, I’ve touched on the reuse options that the UConn TAB program came up with, which was option one was the adaptive reuse of the

16:40 building and housing. My God, I numbered these pages. Reuse of the existing school buildings, smaller scale additional housing, potential senior workforce and mixed-income housing, preservation of existing structure and open space. This provides the greatest opportunity to address housing needs but would require zoning flexibility. This concept plan included approximately 22 units for the site. Option two was duplex, a combination of duplexes and single-family housing, smaller scale residential development, potential senior workforce housing opportunities, greater consistency with neighborhood character. This provides an opportunity to address housing needs and would require planning board approval. The concept included approximately 18 units. Option three was single-family housing, most consistent with current zoning, simplest permitting pathway, provides fewer opportunities to address broader housing needs. This development is allowed by right but still need planning board approval due to the creation of more than three lots. This concept included approximately 10 units. Based on the community feedback, the scale and density represented in these concepts appear generally more acceptable than larger redevelopment scenarios. My recommendation would be that the RFP not prescribe one specific outcome, but instead establish clear

18:10 town goals and allow qualified developers to propose creative solutions consistent with those goals. RFP considerations and potential requirements based on this discussion, and the RFP should seek a redevelopment partner capable of housing needs, neighborhood compatibility, open space preservation, public benefits, financial feasibility, long-term value to the town. Potential RFP requirements could include senior housing, workforce housing, mixed income housing, deed restricted affordable housing opportunities, public benefits, preservation of open space, public access opportunities, community compatibility, developer qualifications, demonstrated experience with municipal redevelopment projects, affordable mixed income housing, working with housing authorities or housing trusts, community engagement, local permitting process. Another item that was sort of discussed, but not in the most of the community engagement, was discussion that the town should consider retaining the property, and the town could pursue a sale, ground lease, or allow both options through the RFP process. Some benefits of property sale, immediate financial return, transfers redevelopment environmental risks, eliminates long-term ownership responsibilities, provides a simpler transaction structure. The town can still establish requirements through

19:40 development agreements, deed restrictions, affordable housing requirements, public access, so we could still do that with that option. Ground lease, town retains ownership, long-term control over future use, ability to establish requirements for affordability, design, open space, public benefits. The ground lease could allow the town to unlock property value while maintaining influence over the future of the property. So now we’re kind of getting to the point where we need the select board guidance. We’re just looking for direction on with the overall redevelopment goals, what are the town’s priorities? Primary objectives for the future reuse of the school. Is the priority housing creation? Is it financial return? Is it reservation of municipal control? Open space? Combination of all these? Housing priorities, should the town prioritize specific housing outcomes, senior housing, workforce, mixed income, municipal employee housing, other community needs? Scale and density, does the select board support the general scale and density represented by the site reuse assessment concepts? Should the RFP encourage similar scale redevelopment, allow additional flexibility, establish maximum density expectations?

21:11 Should we prioritize the sale? Do we want the ground lease? The RFP can include both. And then are there public benefits that the RFP should require? Deed restricted housing, open space, public access, adaptive reuse of the existing building. I just wanted to rifle through it real fast, because I know you’ve heard a lot of it. I think I’m prepared to draft an RFP. I just need some direction from you. Again, I think you’re hearing the common themes, which is workforce, employee housing, senior living, density. They’re not looking for large scale. Those concepts that we developed generally were acceptable. We didn’t hear a lot of opposition to those concepts. And again, I think the max unit was 22, I think. I think 22 units. So I think somewhere in that range is at least agreeable to an extent. What proportion of the lot does 22 units take up? Well, that one was the main building, and then they were incorporating some duplex homes along Turner Road where the field is, but it also maintained open space area, and parking for the building. As I recall, it was 16 in the main building and-

22:41 16 … four duplexes to make eight. Yep. Equals 20. And the footprint was what? So how big was the open space concept in that? The open space concept, there was the parking that met the school or the building’s needs, and then, actually I might have the square footage of that in the back. The open space concept, oh, 9,400 square feet for the dog park area. 9,000. So say 10,000. 10,000 square feet for open space, which I thought with that concept, that would require a zoning amendment. The total acreage there is what, three? Is that right? It’s tough to tell. All the reports are a little different. The assessor’s is not accurate. The assessor’s, I think it’s, I’d say three acres. So we don’t have a survey of it? I’ve not seen one. I’ve not seen a survey. So Brendan, I agree with some of the points you made that, one, it should be realistic, right? Yep. Because there are definitely different permitting paths and what can actually even happen there. Second, I think the broader the RFP is for proposals, I think the better, because it’s hard to determine right now what the highest and best use is for the community without seeing what it can be. Right? There might be something we haven’t even thought of yet. And so I would lean towards a broader type of RFP, to see what else is out there, kind of with the different

24:15 ideas. Mm-hmm. Which include the housing, the open space, kind of, again, with our priorities in mind, which to me are all of the above here. Right. But yeah, that would be my thought based on what you presented. Mm-hmm. An important concept to remember, and as Brendan’s pointed out, the proposals have to meet the current zoning. If they don’t meet the current zoning, then we’d have to look at preparing for next town meeting, working with the planning board to put together a zoning change that has to go through that process and be done in time for town meeting. But the important point is, if we go out per proposal based on the current zoning allowance such, and we get proposals back, if none of them fit our needs, we can just reject all. There is no commitment being made by going out on the street, doing the RFP, getting responses back, which is a good thing, meaning it’s a low risk to go out, see, to your point, what do we get back and let’s look at what’s there, and there may be some concepts that we haven’t even considered. Or all the proposals come back and they just don’t meet the criteria that we’re looking for. Then we have the opportunity to say reject all. All right, what do we need to change in either the

25:45 zoning or the way we craft the RFP to try to get responses to meet our need? But I think that’s important for everybody to understand that. I mean, we’ve been through this process before, right? There was a differently defined reuse project prior. I think that there are some priority criteria that kind of set the stage for a productive RFP, right? And I think kind of the two key points that I think have been discussed are around the scale of the housing in terms of density and what is going to be there. And I think tangentially, and this is probably from a lot of offline conversations I’ve had as well, is to have an open space concept there as well. And whether it’s a dog park, whether it’s a playground or something like that, to me, that’s a distinction that’s important because you’re kind of weighting two different concepts. Is the- And I think it addresses, I think, by having an open space use specifically in the RFP, that may require that we sell only a portion or lease only a portion of the three acres, right? So I think that decision needs to be– I think we need to figure out whether that makes sense. I know I’m hearing a lot about that, so- Yeah. Well, but I guess my question is, is the open space retained and owned by the town or

27:17 does the developer- That’s what we did with the Gary School, right? Yes. Yeah. We hived off that component. But can we look at that as they come in, as Thatcher or as Anna was saying? I don’t think we know what we’re looking at yet. Right. I- So I think the key here is determining our evaluation criteria. Mm-hmm. Right? Not necessarily what the RFP and the evaluation criteria, which could have, right, what’s open space. But why would a- More open space … developer, right, anybody who’s interested, is going to kind of maximize- But then they won’t get a favorable response in our criteria. We’ll have a certain number of criterion that we’re going to be, and that you get either positive or negative, right? Open space is a priority. Workforce housing is a priority, and that’s how we evaluate it. Affordable housing, whatever it is. Okay. So it’s on the criterion when they come in. Right now, to determine if we put lines in the ground, it has to be X number of feet of open space, and it’s going to restrict- Well, I think- … the zoning. Hold on one sec. The zoning or the financial feasibility of it, then we can make that decision at the end. But to push someone off from putting that in, I don’t think makes sense. I think broader makes more sense. Well, this addresses your question about doing leases, right? Mm-hmm. So it keeps it under control of the town. I mean, I think the question is, is whether we want open space preserved for the town. I think those are two different things. It’s just a pure ground lease if we did it, right? If we did a ground lease or something like that, it’s going to be 99 years, is

28:50 my feeling, for them to get financing. Mm-hmm. Right? And all that does is it looks to the future. Well, the question is- Because we don’t know what the town looks like … whether we should a priori, right, before a developer comes in and makes a proposal, carve out that which we want to be developed, and that which we want to preserve for open space. I don’t think we have enough information, personally, about that. I agree with both Rosanna and Moses. One is be broad, but I think we have to carve out the open space part, because otherwise you’re going to come in with a developer. If you’re going to carve out X, 20,000 square feet- Whatever it is, yeah … the developer should focus on what’s available rather than try to guess. Yeah, but I don’t know why we can’t say in the RFP that open space is a priority- Yeah. Exactly … and so your proposals are encouraged to have an open space plan. I don’t know. I mean, I think it’s not- We don’t have to accept… Well, hold on … committed. I mean, we’re not- But I think if we’re going to retain that, like we did at the Gary, I think that’s important to make that decision. And we are going to hear from Parks and Rec later. I mean, it would be really difficult in my mind for a developer to try to guess what the town wants to retain. No, but I think it’s going to be driven the other way around. To me, we have a chance to solve one of the biggest problems in this town, right? Hold on one sec. One of the biggest problems I see in this town is a lack of housing for seniors, for veterans, for workforce.

30:23 That’s not what I’m- Okay. Well, hold on. Let me… But so- I haven’t finished yet. Jeremy? Okay. But it sounded like you took a pause. You don’t have to. So if you want to finish, go ahead. I was going to say, if we carve it off, okay, and yet we have a reason what we want to focus on carving off, it allows the developer to focus on it. And there are competing needs. And if you go back to a letter Erin wrote in October of 2023, it talked about exactly that. That the development would be focused on the existing building, and there would be room left. And I think it would be helpful for the developer to know what the town plans to retain, or at least just have an idea or a range of what we plan to retain. I- Because when Harbor Light came in, they had some open space in there, but it was minimal. They had 42 units, and there was a couple raised beds in the corner and a lot of parking. And I just think it would be a lot more helpful- Well, I like a range. Yeah, a range. Makes sense. But here’s the thing too. I think what you’re saying is until we know what they come in with, just because they come in with something, this is a negotiation, right? So we’re not going to necessarily accept what they come in with. It’s not like they put it in once and we say, “Take it or leave it.” If we don’t want to take it, we don’t have to. But I like the concept of a range, and giving preference based on more square footage.

31:53 Like when we develop this RFP and say, “The more you come in with, the more preferable it looks like.” So, for me, I’m not looking at this from a developer standpoint. I’m looking at it from the town standpoint. Yeah. And so for me, from a town standpoint, the more options and the more- Mm … opportunities we have to consider, the better for us. So, a developer, if they don’t like it because it’s too vague or too whatever, then they don’t have to bid on it. Mm-hmm. I don’t know. I just feel like it’s not about the developer. I feel it’s about us. Sure. And so I don’t know if we’re ready to make a decision right now. I feel like we don’t have all the information. That’s all. I would just add, I understand your concept, I do. But I think you’re asking a private developer to take care of fundamentally a public good, right? The public good is open space, and generally, a developer is going to have to do a lot of guesswork around the extent to which the town values that public good. And so, generally, private bidders are going to be notoriously bad about understanding how to price a public good, right? And I think we make it a lot easier, I think, this is my opinion, that if we give them a lot, whether it includes redeveloping the existing building and adding additional units around a common space, that makes it easier for developers to put in consistent competitive proposals

33:26 for us to look at. And that’s- I think- Sorry. Go ahead, Erin. I don’t know. Does that make sense? Erin has something to say. I guess I don’t know how we would carve off- Yeah … a certain part without knowing what the use of the open space would be. So if it ends up that a developer wants… I personally would prioritize affordability, senior housing. Two things this town needs is new tax growth revenues, property tax revenues, and affordable housing. Non-single family, diversity of inventory of housing options. So if that becomes a senior independent living center or some type of senior workforce housing, do we want a dog park there, or do we want more of a small park for seniors to use that has raised garden beds, or we just don’t know until we really set what our priorities are for the development piece. We would really encumber ourselves if we just designated, like, “All right, 100 yards is this.” It’s just not in it. I don’t know. But it strikes me that we have to make a basic decision, right? If we want an open space, right? That’s- I do … and fine with- No, I don’t think we do. I see them all the time. They come in, you see them in the… right? You just say in the RFP, you say, “Preference-“ Yeah … priority given to some preservation of open space,” and then the developer has the freedom of choice to-

34:57 Propose something … propose something creative. And we get to evaluate it in that way. And then can’t you just still go back and negotiate about it, of course? Of course, right. Yeah. You could do a minimum, like a minimum of 5,000, 8,000- Why we would limit ourselves off the get-go … square feet of- And you could also incorporate- There’s a way to write it … language that the town would consider subdividing it to retain ownership of the open space. That’s right. Or the- Right … developer can say, “We’ll own it, but will the agreement or the requirement will them to allow public access?” One second, I think Patrick had something he wanted to say. So this is an RFP process. Yeah. So it has two components. It has a qualitative and a quantitative package that’s submitted. So the first step is look at the qualitative. And so what you set up is here’s our criteria. Let’s just say there’s five different criteria, and that each criteria is scored based on the proposals. Right. And in the general sense, you have highly advantageous, advantageous- Right … not advantageous, not compliant. Right? And when I’ve done these kind of proposals before, sort of when we do, we’ve gone to a number score of one through 10. What do you give it? What this allows for, and here’s the basic challenge that’s being played out right here. Yep. There are competing interests. Open space, maximal housing to simplify, right? And so it’s a tug back and forth. You can set up the RFP that in the criteria you give

36:29 higher scores if you provide more housing and if you provide more open space Yep. Right? And so when the proposals come back, one, the developers can get really creative, say, “I’m going to accomplish both.” If we simply say we want to maximize housing, they’ll just dense it all in. If we just want open space, they’re going to put in a couple units, and you get it. What we want is the proposals come back, tell us creative ways that we can try to maximize or optimize both, and let the developers do that. And then through the scoring system, based on actual proposals which they should have some concept designs, some visuals to say, “Wow, this one has a little more housing, a little less open space, but I really like how they did this,” or vice versa. They were able to get a little more open space and still achieve almost all the housing we wanted, and you make a choice. So what’s the guide? What are the criteria on the open space piece then in that scenario? Let’s say we go for broader. So I think- What do we do? So you can make it highly advantageous if, I’m going to use say, percentages of the site rather than dimensions. If- But for what use? We’re not deciding that yet because we don’t know yet. We don’t know. We don’t know what they’ll- That can be decided later … that will be different proposals. As to what the open space- Right Or they could leave the open space, and then we can go out and find what we want to use after that fact.

38:00 So Thatcher, like you’re saying, it could be minimum 15%, 20%. Right. Whatever, some minimum amount that has to be open space. Right. So not advantageous of being just less than 10% Trees and plants, so just generally- Yeah … to complement the whole construction. Could be a dog park, could be a garden. But also, they might propose a dog park, or they might propose community beds or… We don’t know. But I don’t know, I just like the broader approach. I just feel like, I think that gives us the most options. And the second question I had is, is there any benefit of doing an RFI first on this? Didn’t we already do that? We did. We did that, right? We already did it. We did that. Yep. We did. And that’s where we got the Harbor Light, and we went out to municipality as well. Yeah. Yeah. And that brings me back to- I would say that- Harbor Light came in with something that I don’t think the neighborhood found acceptable at all. Mm-hmm. That’s why I was concerned about just… I like the broad thing, but when you’re too broad, you get a bunch of stuff that is not going to work. But I think we tailor it with the scoring. I think we tailor it with the criteria. So, speaking of scoring, are we going to develop scoring before the RFP goes out? That’s how you typically do an RFP. Okay. You develop- Yes … it. Heading forward. It’s creating the criteria in which you’re going to evaluate on. That’s- Right, but the broader the criteria, the more difficult it is for bidders to understand the value proposition that they’re going to get out of the property, right? There’s a huge incentive to maximize the

39:34 value if we, for example, in the example, selling the land. And that open space becomes very contiguous to the whole concept. They’re not going to optimize for public use, in my humble opinion. But if they- They’re going to have very nice, it’ll be probably very nice and be open, but it will not be… If you’re a smart developer, you’re kind of maximizing the total value of the project. But then we have the option to go back to them and say, “That’s not acceptable- Yes … in your proposal,” and that we’re not going to accept that. Right. We would like to work with you, but give us more space. Then we run the risk of having kind of broadly different RFPs, none of which may be acceptable. One RFP. And then we… Well, right. But responses to the RFPs. And then we have a situation where we don’t get any that are acceptable. I would love a bunch of broad options to see. I would love to see a bunch of different options come in so that we have more to evaluate, is how I feel. I think if you do an RFP, like open space has- Well, we’re not- But I think you just got to parse out the public good from the private good. That’s all I’m saying. If you’re going to sell a property and they’re going to maximize their value and use, even if we have affordable constraints, right, you want to set that piece, I think, aside. Oh. And then figure out what the open space component is for the town use. That’s my opinion. And I think it’s- Brendan, couldn’t we write in the RFP that there is the option that the town may retain that open space, right? Yeah. And so, I think, again, I think it’s just I feel like it comes down to how

41:06 it’s written. Mm-hmm. Which is on you. Yep. And so I don’t know, maybe there’s some type of draft kind of language or something we can- Oh, yeah … you know, share. I’m not going to issue anything. Because I think… No, because my point is that I think we’re saying a lot of the same things, even though it feels really different. So maybe there’s a way to document- Yep … kind of what we want to do, where it- Yep … gives direction. It’s not too broad, but yet it gives us a wide net. Erin, you had something you want to say? So I think if we can just get off the open space, this issue for one second, I think we want to make sure we’re giving you a consensus from the board around all these other things. So we adopted a housing production plan back in 2021, identified the site, identified an extreme shortage of non-single family homes, and an extreme lack of affordable homes in our town. So can we, as a board, agree and have consensus that we are prioritizing some non-single family affordable units? It depends, again, how many. And I think, again, it’s- Well, we don’t say the specific … I think what the people in town are telling us is- Don’t you want us, Brendan, don’t you want us to- You could prioritize the- We don’t say it … like you say- It’s a question of density, right? I mean, that’s at the end of the day. Can I make a suggestion along what you were saying? I think that we’ve talked, you have some other ones that you’ve looked at from other towns. Yep, seen drafts, yep.

42:36 Why don’t you come to us- In two weeks with that and with some of the criterion. I think you’ve heard, and you’ve outlined in what you talked to us about. Yeah. If you come to us with that, and we can look at that, and maybe if you could give us like a cover sheet- Yeah … of saying, because it’s probably going to be 30 pages or something. That’s fine. I mean, I’ve seen them. Right. So that we can see- Sure … and then that we can start to understand how we prioritize that, and then we can focus in on the ones that are most important and start to talk about a scoring system. So in other words, I think the biggest thing that we’re hearing, that I’m hearing here, is how to– the criterion, right? On how we judge these. Because ultimately, we’re starting to have conversations about how we’re looking at these already. Mm-hmm. We don’t have anything. So I think that we need to look at how we’re going to do that. I mean- And whether it’s a range on open space, multi-family housing, which I’m going to go back to what you said, I do agree with you that as a board, that is what we adopted at housing. And I think that we need to continue that. So if you could bring us an RFP to go through. I think it’s a good idea to emphasize affordability- Mm-hmm … as Aaron is saying. Right? I also think it’s important to figure out what an open space concept looks like for two reasons. One, it’s open space and we don’t have a lot of it in town, and two, it’s a public good that we may want to have some say over,

44:07 because we have some- I think I’ve got some good feedback from you guys here. Do you guys all agree that the themes that are in the notes that I’ve read, the feedback we’ve been getting for almost several years is sort of what we want to be baked into the RFE? I think based on the comments here, based on the feedback we’ve received over the last several years, I can probably draft an RFP that- We’ll have a look at … gets really close to what I- I think it’ll help us tailor- Yeah … kind of- Yeah … a compromise- That’s important … or a balanced- Will that draft RFP have a preliminary scoring system in it? I will- It doesn’t have to be- I can set it but I won’t put the score to it. Yeah. I won’t put like the- You won’t put the weights in it. Yeah, I won’t weight it. Because I’ve done my own on the side, and I have certain things I think should be scored. Right. And I think that’s definitely what I need from you. Like what are we going to prioritize? I would like to see it doesn’t have to be weighted, but just what you would weight. Yes. Do you want to share that with him so- Yeah, I will … so that way, in case maybe if we all have individual things that are important in that. It’s like an Excel spreadsheet, but it has- Yeah … most of the usual things. Mm-hmm. It has things like open space. It has housing for seniors, veterans. But it also has, people are interested in what might be a sale price of the land, too. Sure. Which needs to be evaluated. Sure. Yeah, clearly. And then also, I think that we can look at

45:37 sale versus a long-term lease, and the advantages or disadvantages of both. Yes. And we should decide what’s most important to us. And subdivide it. Okay. But the bids that come in are obviously going to drive the bid price that these developers are expected to get. Right. So we always have this. The reason I like hiving off the commercial component from the public component is that you should give the developers an opportunity to have to structure a bid that has high value and that they can pay a high amount to the town. So it’s just clean, I think it’s just cleaner in my opinion. But yeah, I think you’re going to have to have criteria for all of these things to kind of- Yeah … to kind of choose between the different RFPs. Do you feel like you’ve … I mean, we’ve been in a few circles here. Yeah, no, no, I- And not even circles because we got that. No, we end up in space. I know. I think I got it. I think I know. I think I’ve seen enough RFPs that I can make it specific to the Coffin School- And maybe when you get- And our needs … maybe if you could get a copy to Thatcher at some point that he can distribute before our meeting so that we can spend some time going on it, so we can be- Yeah … so we can be productive- Yeah … for you, too, and always have- No, this was productive, too. I mean, I got at least, for me it was, I got to hear sort of where you guys stand. If- You know? If Brendan comes up with a draft- Mm-hmm … are we allowed by open meeting law to comment individually back to him?

47:09 I don’t know. As long as he doesn’t share it. Yep. Yeah. Yep. That might be helpful. Yeah. I mean, if we want to get comments individually that he has to- Yeah, back to him- Okay … as Thatcher or whatever. Yeah, and then maybe if you compile some of those comments before. Yeah. Right? And then we can- Because otherwise I think it would be a bit of a mess, actually if- Yeah. So. I think we just- Yeah … need to show that. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Absolutely. That’ll be very helpful. Okay. All right, great. Well, and I agree with some of the public comments that we should get moving on this. It feels like we are starting to. I’m not sure we’re going to be able to name it the Thatcher Building based on timing and some other things, but I would recommend that we aim towards an RFP- Mm-hmm … as soon as we all feel comfortable with it. Yep. No, this was helpful for me. I got to kind of hear what you guys were thinking. Great. And you know what? I just want to say one more thing. I 100% agree that we need to work with the planning board here. Yes. And I think we need to figure out how we do that before, and obviously where you almost have two bosses in this town- Mm-hmm … that it’s going to go through you with that. So anything that you can help to do to facilitate that would be great, but we want to make sure that we are not going out with something that they look at and are like, “Hell no.” Right? Because we don’t want to waste our time, theirs, or yours. Yeah. Because I have a billion- Or the bidder’s … billion questions on that. Yeah. That was obviously the main point why I brought that up tonight- No, I agree … because I don’t think it was- No, it’s a great point … I don’t think it had been addressed. No, we should all work- Or discussed … work together on that. Can I ask one detailed question, if you’re not ready to answer it? If you were to put 16 units in

48:42 An existing building. How would that work zoning-wise, do you- Zoning change. Well, unless- It’s non-incentive zoning. What if it’s 10% affordable? What if it meets that criteria? That’s what– If it’s like- 25 You’re just not allowed to- Is it 25? You’re not allowed to do multi-family housing in the single-residence district. Unless 25% or less- Well, I was thinking more 40B Is it- That’s a 40B … that’s what I’m saying. So, I mean- Right. Right. So, yeah. So I interpreted that, that means going to the town meeting. Not for our 40B. Not for 40B. No. Not for 40B. I didn’t say the 40B. But yes, I think the- Zoning amendment … everything I’ve read- Hella pages again … I believe, yes, it would be a zoning amendment. So this would be where it’d be helpful to talk to, and get input from ZBA as well as planning, right? Because- Well, yes … ZBA, it might be going- Planning and I have talked about it, and- Okay … it is definitely a zoning amendment. And, yeah. Yeah. That’s going to be an issue. Or a concern. So I think we should talk about that and make sure we’re all on the same page as far as what we believe for each one. Yep. So we don’t run into that. For sure. Yep. Based on your experience, is 40B a simplified concept that could be used here? I don’t have a lot of 40B. There are friendly 40Bs, but I was in a city, and that was sort of an agreement with the mayor. Yep. You know? And so… Right. 40B is in the hands of the developer. Right. Not in the town. Yep.

50:12 Right. Not as a criteria. They still have to go and get zoning board approval. Right. But they go to the state as well. They drive, but yeah. But they drive the 40B. They drive the bus, yes. But I guess what I’m saying with the RFP, whether that’s a… They would come to us with that. I mean, you can also prioritize like a non-profit type partnership with a ground lease, and then that gets you around a zone change, because they’re going to be 100% affordable. I mean, I’m not- If the finance– You have to see what the developer, if it’s too dense to make the finances work, then that’s out the window. But if it’s- I was going to say, if you were only looking at just the building, and you need the 40B just for that, I don’t think that would even be worth- Probably not big enough … Yeah. They’re looking at hundreds of units or- No, we don’t- … 50, 60, 80, 100 units to make it- I’ve seen them do it for a lot less than that. Okay. I mean, there’s one- Yeah. No, I know … in town happening right now for 48 units, so- 80’s- I think we need to be careful. I think I would recommend all of us take the numbers out for now. Mm-hmm. Let’s see what people come in with, and let’s get some feedback from… It’s from my personal opinion. I’ll definitely have a draft for you. I think we should define density or number of units in the RFP. I think we should have a criterion in there on- The handout I gave you- We can define the criteria … kind of asked a lot of those questions, so- But I would think that’s where we as a town need to develop incentives, right? We need to figure out how many units we want there and what the density is, I think. But you also need to know what the economics are of it.

51:44 So we can’t say- Well, but- … we only want to have- Right … 20 units, but we want it to be 100% affordable. We want to partner with a non-profit. The economics don’t work, so we just get nothing back. We learn- Well, I mean, yeah. Well, the question is, it seems that there’s a range between 20 and 40 units, essentially, right? Right. I mean, I think the RFI that returned for that property was around 40 units. Right. Just for an RFI look at it. Right. So I think- So I- Yeah, go ahead. Sorry. I was just going to say, so I think Brendan, I think once you give us a draft, I think that will allow us to react- Yes. Yeah … a little bit more specific- To these … Yes. To the concerns, and kind of what detail we need, what detail we don’t need. I think that was the goal. That would be very helpful. Yeah, the goal was just to kind of say, “Get the green light to move on the RP.” Yep. I kind of hear what you guys are saying now, and I think I got a lot of good feedback or input from the board, and again, seems like there is an agreement that what’s been discussed in the past is probably part of the draft. So how much time do you think that you would need for that? Or do you want to get back to us once you get going? I will not be in town for the next select board meeting. I know that. Okay. So why don’t we do the first select board meeting in August for that, right? I could probably get you a draft well in advance. Yeah. Get us a draft for that for maybe, we can feed individual feedback through Patrick. Yeah. Great. Just as soon as you can. Yep. Awesome. Thanks, bud. Yep. Appreciate your help. Yep, no problem. Thank you, Brendan. Appreciate it. All right. Moving on. We- Any next questions? No, we’re not doing public comment on this. Thank you, though.

53:16 Okay. Anything to make? We did at the beginning. Oh. Yeah. Understood. Yeah. Okay. Thank you, though. Next on, we have licensing, Maria Torres. Come on up. Good evening. Good evening.

53:33 Welcome. So we have your application here for the Driftwood. Yes. I don’t know if you just want to present what you’re planning on doing and… Well, I’m not planning to change anything. We’re just going to keep everything as it is. Can you guys keep it down, please? Sorry, just hard to hear. Thank you. We are not planning to change anything. We are just cleaning it up, doing the updates that are required by Board of Health to bring it up to code. Just some painting, cleaning. Right. Couple new things in the kitchen, but pretty much keeping everything the same. We don’t want to upset anybody in town. I told my daughters this was happening tonight. They’re like, “Ask her if the fried dough is staying.” Fried dough is staying. Perfect. All right. The menu’s not changing. Everything’s staying. All right. Why mess with success? Wait, there’s one other. Are you bringing your muffins, though? We will be bringing our muffins. Okay, good. I mean, I’m ready to vote after that. I think probably that’s the only thing that we’ll be adding for now- Yes … to the menu. Do people have any questions? I mean, it seems pretty straightforward. We see your Driftwood. Looks like you’re keeping the exact same layout that you already have. That’s exciting. It is very exciting. Congratulations. Yeah, it’s great. Thank you. Thank you for coming in front of us and keeping that going. We’re going good? Good. Could I have a motion to approve the application from Maria’s Gourmet Cafe, Inc., doing business as Driftwood Restaurant, for a common vic license at 63 Front Street, Manager Maria Torres? Subject to receipt of all required fees, forms, and department sign-offs. Hours of operation, 6:00 AM to 9:00 PM, Monday through Sunday. It looks like seating capacity of 35. So moved. Second. All right. All in favor? Looks like it was unanimous.

55:04 All right. Thank you. Thank you very much. You’re welcome. All right. Perfect. Thank you. All right. Next up, Park and Rec. Come on up. We got… Oh, looks like we got a whole- Recreation and Parks. Great. The official title, right? Thank you. Yeah, sorry. That’s the show. That’s the show. So you guys, as we’re continuing our theme here, thank you for coming. Hi. Thank you for letting us- Welcome to the board. Thank you. That’s great. You are welcome. I’m Karen Ernst, Chair of Recreation and Parks, on 93 Lafayette Street. I can call the 50 Cornell Road. Jamie Block, Superintendent of Recreation and Parks. Great. So thank you for the time. We’ve been kind of thinking about this land for a while now, and I just wanted to give you my ideas, our ideas, of what we think we can do with it if you’re interested in it. And when Brennan sent out in 2025 a request for interest, we did fill that out that we were interested in using some of that space. So, right now the Recreation and Parks Department cares for and schedules field use at the Coughlin property. So we do that, that’s on page two. We do that up on top. We maintain that ledge area, and we also maintain the field and schedule flag football on that

56:37 field. So we’d like to continue to do that. In 2001, Coughlin property was released to the Select Board. In August 2025, the Planning Department asked municipal departments to fill out an expression of interest, which we did, and it was for a temp-to-perm dog park. So our original expression of interest was for a temp-to-perm dog park on the top corner where the ledge is because it’s hard to build on ledge. There’s not really anything else you can do with it. But then after further thought, there’s more that we can do to include open space. And it’s important to note that open space under Recreation and Parks allows for flexibility. Once you sell it, you never get it back. So I know you guys talked a lot about open space. Open space to me is either town-owned open space or private-owned open space. So just to kind of think about that when you’re going out parking. All right. So this is the space that we would recommend that you keep as town-owned space, and it’s the same space that we, the department, currently cares for and schedules field time on. I’m on page… Well, I don’t know why there are 35 slides on my thing. There aren’t 35 slides. Am I on the right page? No. No. Oh. It’s like every other- Oh, yeah. You need to go further.

58:08 Right. Let’s go to the- That right there, that’s what we maintain right now. Mm-hmm. Recreation and Parks. And we have four apps. That’s the page I’m on right now. Okay. So- Just say, “Next slide, please.” Sorry. I apologize. I can help you. I’ll say it. Thank you. So these are the survey results from the survey that Brendan did, and obviously housing is super important for this town. It is a tax opportunity and increased the tax levy. But there’s also a, next slide, an opportunity for open space, and there was a lot of people who were looking for that as well. Community space results were sports field and turf, which is what we currently have. Childcare, preschool, not our wheelhouse. Teen/youth center, also not our wheelhouse. Community and garden center is something that was mentioned to us. A playground with a play structure. We have one about 500 feet away. Open green space and a dog park. But really, there’s a strong support for combined housing and open space.

59:24 One more. Yeah. So this is what we’re thinking. We’re asking that you keep part of Coughlin property as town-owned land under Recreation and Parks’ jurisdiction, and to include a parking area in the plans for parking when using the open space. So if you look at the slide, Park and Rec, I mean Rec and Park- Oh, after just beating me up for it I know, right? Wow. Even here, the area on the left and then the area on the right is a perfect size for housing for seniors, young families, workforce, anything you guys want. And then obviously there’s a circle. Not obviously, there’s a circle. We would need to have public access to whatever parking is there if we’re going to maintain that space and build anything today or in the future. Next slide. Okay. One of our biggest needs right now is a dog park. So today our dog park sits at Green Street on the top. So right where Lyman and Tioga way is. It is 96,000 square feet, which is about .23 acres, and we really don’t have access to it. So if you- Okay. So currently,

1:00:55 the dog park, which was opened in 2009, and was widely used, and then COVID hit, and then we lost access. So, we lost access from the Tioga Way side, because it’s a private road, in 2021. Then we just recently lost the access from Line Street, which is also a private way. That was in 2026, about a month ago. And today, we can only access the dog park by way of a narrow path from Reynolds Field. Department trucks cannot manage the path incline and the narrowness, given the department no motor vehicle access at all, which makes repairing and improving the dog park challenging for Rec and Parks Department. It also makes it challenging for people to use it, because I walked the incline, and it was not easy. So, I’m sorry. When did you guys lose the access from- Line? Where the X, yeah. Like a month ago. Why? Because the owner is doing some work. They own a little bit of, if you go right to the top left of that X- Yeah … the owner owns that land. The owner back there. Oh. Mm-hmm. Oh, they own it. Oh, got you. The people who own- Yeah. Access is really dependent on Ted’s discretion. Line, yeah, the owner. And when this dog park originally existed without all that development- Yeah … it was great. Yeah. You could drive up. You had parking spaces, right? Mm-hmm. So it has dramatically changed- Mm-hmm … over time because of the development.

1:02:26 It’s years. Mm-hmm. So yeah. So that’s that. That’s the incline. Mm-hmm. I learned how to do that on Google Earth. So, here are some fun facts from National Recreation and Parks Association. 91% of Americans believe their community benefits from a dog park. 60% of Americans say that the top benefit of having a dog park in their community is that it gives pets a safe place to exercise off leash. A little side note, right now dogs are exercising off leash in that area, and it would be nice since we have leash laws, to provide a space for them to do that legally. Nearly half of all Americans believe dogs having the ability to socialize with other dogs is a top benefit to having a community dog park. And then finally, one in three Americans agree that community dog parks allow owners a chance to be physically active with their pet. I think the bottom line, at least for me, you guys can jump in, is that keeping that part town property under the jurisdiction of us, we take care of it now, we want to continue to take care of it, allows for opportunity in the future. It may be a dog park today, it may be a community garden tomorrow. It may be a community garden with a dog park. Definitely field use.

1:03:56 But it allows that land to stay owned by the town and used by the town. What is the acre? Good question. Do I have? I think I have- Looks like you had almost 110,000 square feet. Yeah. And what you propose is- Yeah … call it 38,000. So the area that we’re looking to keep, that we would like you guys to let us keep, is 37,000 square feet. Which is just shy of an acre. Hmm? Yeah. Shy of an acre or so. Mm-hmm. Yes. So roughly about one third of that. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Which is really the open space that there is now. It’s what’s green is green. What’s green is green. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Thanks. This also helps with your RFP process if you’re telling the developer what they’re going to be developing. Exactly. Right? Instead of letting them play a guessing game of where we want that to be. I think that’s right. I agree. You’re so sympathetic to developers. I’m less sympathetic. I’ve answered RFPs before. Whatever’s out there, I answer it as needed, right? So talk to us more about the temp to perm dog park concept. So the temp to perm dog park concept really came from Shelley. Every time she drove by, she was like, “That’s a good place for a dog park. We’d fence it in and let the dogs use it.” But as time went on, and I don’t know what happens after this process. I definitely learned more tonight.

1:05:30 So to build a dog park, there are definitely several steps. The number one step is to find a good location. The cost to build a dog park, even if it’s temporary, we would need to fence in that entire area. Oh, it’s not on there. Not the bottom half, but the top half where the ledge is. That area provides natural shade. Dogs don’t care about ledges. They like the ledge. Grass, which is really good for the dogs. And we would need to build a fence, and then we would need to build a safe gate to go in and out of. The problem is, is that depending on how long this process, so if you guys are going to put all the land out for an RFP, and you do that in six months, then we need to think about is it worth $30,000 to put in fencing. And I don’t know, we’d have to talk to the neighbors, and we’d have to talk to… There’s a whole process to it. But if you are thinking about keeping some of this property and you would allow us to use it temporarily, we would start the process and we would talk to the neighbors and see where their head is at, if they’re interested in having a place for the dogs to hang out, couple of them right behind in their backyard. So does that answer your question?

1:07:02 Yeah, so we’d work concurrently with your process, and if there was- Right … enough time left- Mm-hmm … to be able to put the dog park in temporarily, then it would make sense. And if there is two months into an RFP is accepted, then it doesn’t make sense, right? Yeah. Whatever the timeline is, it’s sliding. Mm-hmm. So you’re- Go ahead. Ask … so you’re asking us, I guess I’m a little confused based on what you just said on timing. So we are going to put out, I mean, an RFP. Mm-hmm. You heard tonight. Yep. And so given that we’re waiting to hear from that, does it really make sense to do a temporary is my concern, and spend that money, right? Well- Like let’s just say, we don’t know where we’re going to end up there. We’ve heard a bunch of different opinions and where it comes back, I’d hate to see you spend that money. Spending the money wouldn’t be the first thing that we do. The first thing that we do is talk to the neighbors. We pick a location, then I have a whole list of steps. Pick a location, but we would start the process in hopes that in your deliberation you guys would be like, “We want to keep some of this for the town, for the future of the town.” If in our process we get to that point where we need to spend the money, then we check in with you guys, see where you guys are at your point, and then we can make that determination. But wouldn’t you do that if we put out an RFP anyway? That’s- It depends what you put out for. Yeah. Gotcha. That’s what you guys are talking about, isn’t it? Rather the town retaining that state consideration. No, no, yeah, that makes sense. But if we did, then you would be doing that to

1:08:35 put in a response. Right. Yeah. Mm-hmm. If you’ll give us the space entirely, then we’ll figure that portion, we’ll figure out the temporary portion later. We can take it in its entirety now for permanent. Which- That’s the solution … yeah. Yeah. That’s not a- That’s not, yeah. Well, why is that? I mean, the analogy we have is directly the model that we used most recently at the Gray school was precisely that. We did not let the developers develop that playground area. That was turned over to Park and Rec for a specific open space park use unaffiliated with the development and the reuse of that building, right? Yes. Okay. So, alls I’m saying is, but that was a decision that was made a priori before the RFP carved out, that gave Park and Rec and the planners a rack to organize around what they were going to do to create a beautiful park down there, which is really is going to be a jewel downtown, right? And I don’t see why we can’t use the same model here. Dog park, maybe that’s a primary idea. It’s the first strong case I’ve heard for the use of an open space concept. So, I’m generally not averse at all to carving out a piece that is reserved for public use in perpetuity as determined by the town, as opposed to being encumbered potentially by

1:10:08 a private use. And we’ve already seen it with Ted Moore up at the current dog park because he’s decided to have development. There’s no dog park. Yes. And that’s exactly what will happen for sure if we don’t carve out a piece of property that is open for town use, I think. So, I can understand why you might want to have a developer determine what that open space use is for, but it’s not going to be our property anymore. Maybe you do a 100-year lease, but that still doesn’t give rights to be able to kind of change it from a dog park to a garden or whatever. It’ll be like Oakland. But I think that the direction that we gave Brendan was to have the option for us to keep that ultimately in the end. Yeah. So if we didn’t, we have the option to exercise that based on the proposal. So it’s not that that decision is off the table. Right. I also just want to- Hold on one second. Go ahead, hon. So, my understanding too, I don’t think we need to exactly replicate the Gary process- Exactly … because the whole impetus for that conversation was that that was a 100-year-old playground that the neighborhood universally came out for, and there isn’t a playground in Old Town or down in that area. And so it was just naturally fell kind of where that was. I don’t know that a dog park is the biggest priority for an open space for what people– It depends on what a developer

1:11:43 would do in the renderings. I mean, for us to carve out today any section or anytime soon really just is so cart before- There … cart before the horse because we don’t even know, none of those renderings that we saw back from Yukon, they needed parking space. I don’t think any of the renderings reserved this entirety of space. It just doesn’t make economic sense- Well, we don’t- … for the property. We don’t know that. We don’t really know that, right? Well- But that’s, yeah … I mean, we had three renderings. We’ve had two RFIs returned. None of them would just- Before … use this spot right here, and with the parking and I think there’s just so many more considerations that we can say no- Well, it’s because we never proposed a property that was already carved out. That’s why you never got a rendering that reflected- But then you’re really limiting- … what may be a public choice … what you’re getting back. You’re really limiting your responses. Well, I think all you’re doing is you’re prioritizing affordable housing density over open space use. I mean, that’s basically what- Well- That’s basically what I see happening. So I think- Well, no, it’s both. I mean, we are definitely going to have an open space preference in the RFP. But for how much? You’ll have to see what the economics sense makes for the developer. Well, the smaller the open space, the higher the value to the developer. So there’s a baked in conflict

1:13:13 between… Unless we’re very specific about the carving out of the space, it’s going to be a very difficult thing for a developer to bid on, I would think. So I think Jim had something to say. So I fundamentally agree with Moses on that. Short of that, if the board doesn’t want to do that, I think this should go in as an appendix into the RFP saying, “This is the type of thing that the town might be looking for with open space.” So it will at least give the developer some sort of idea and, as Brendan said, also come with things, say, an option would be subdividing it as well. Mm-hmm. So again, I agree with Moses, but also it’s kind of along the lines with what Rosanne is saying, give some flexibility, but at least give them direction that we’re looking for a certain amount of open space down there. And I have to say in- I’m done … in regards to the neighbors down there, let’s just be clear, that is a single family neighborhood down there, and they deserve some open space down there. And we saw the reaction to Harbor Lights, 40 units, and there were gasps in the room, and I agree with them. There’s no one in this room that has done more, my family has done more for affordable housing in the past 50 years, believe me, and I want it too, but I don’t want to ruin the neighborhood. I just don’t. I don’t think anybody wants to ruin the neighborhood.

1:14:44 Erin, I didn’t say you did- No one here has any more questions? … but we just have to leave some open space, and we have to give some- I don’t think anybody disagrees with that. No, I think we all want open space. So- I think it’s- That’s my point … can we- The question is whether it’s under public control or not. So what- No, the question is whether we decide that today or we wait until after we see what the RFP- And how could we ever decide it not knowing what the RFP- Can we take it back to where this presentation right here is? I would love to watch all of this Can we continue our old RFP? So I think that what we do need to do, I think what we’ve determined, because we went off on this before with Brendan, is that he’s going to come back to us with that. Yeah, absolutely. And then we can make a decision. I think what we have in front of us is I just want to understand what you’re asking. Yeah. Are you asking for some temporary space now- Yeah. Well, I mean- … without us making a decision? Because clearly there’s no decision being made. Yes, I am. Because we do schedule the field down there, we have forever, and we would like to continue to do that. We would like to continue very much to mow the lawn down there and cut right above that, where the ledge is. We want that very much. So do you guys do flag football down there right now? I’m sorry? They do. They do flag football? And when’s that season, just so I could go? They’re both fall and spring. Okay. So it is field allocated in both seasons. So through a certain amount of, let’s call it through, you’re a flag football guy here as well, through November, December? They go- For as long as- … late November goes flag, and then they come back again at the end of March. So I’m hearing two things. You need to know if you can start scheduling that field.

1:16:15 Well, if you were to grant us temporary use of that, we would just continue to maintain it like we are maintaining it. It sounds like you guys need to figure out how this RFP is going to go out. I’m going to think really positively and I’m going to put good stuff out there so it comes back. Mm-hmm. And so if you grant it to us temporarily, then we’re going to start a process of continuing to maintain. But if it’s possible, I’d be willing to talk to neighbors and say, “I don’t know what the future’s going to be,” but- So what are you thinking? So I think there’s value in a proof of concept for the dog park, because let’s say, now again, it’s money you would have to spend. I would try to find a way to spend as little as possible, obviously. But if people don’t want it there, then we know that’s not an option- So there’s a- … you know what I mean? I think it’s a good proof of concept to try it temporarily. I want you to think about pickleball, right? Let’s not. No, but there’s a way. I can throw up fences and call it a day, but there are some steps that we can mitigate and make sure that everyone’s on the same page. No, but of course. What I’m saying is right now, until a dog park is existing there, it’s hard to tell whether that’s– I don’t know. I mean- Are there not other places in town that you could test that proof of concept for a longer period of time? Here’s my concern, to be honest with you. Yeah.

1:17:46 You spend some money on a temporary. Mm-hmm. And then we end up on a board consensus where there isn’t a dog park, and you have to rip it out. Mm-hmm. I don’t think that’s a good look for any of us, to be honest with you. So is there somewhere else in town, I don’t know, the Eveleth School? I’m just thinking- No … throwing them out. Are there other places you could test proof of concept? If that concept passes, it doesn’t mean it doesn’t come back here. I can answer the question. It’s just like something that’s not in progress. Yeah. So historically, this is what I’ve heard. Mm-hmm. That when that dog park was put where it was, they did extensive research in every single piece of land the town owned as far as putting a dog park anywhere else. My understanding, what I was told, that was the only place in Marblehead that a dog park could go. When was that? Which worked out great. How long ago was that, do you remember? Well, it was 2009. 2009. 2009. And it was perfect, but then we lost access. If we didn’t lose access- You wouldn’t be here … we wouldn’t be here. But Eveleth, was Eveleth owned- It was a school back then. Right. Exactly. It’s still a school. Like 2009, it’s still- And it’s on school property. We’d have to go- A school. Right. But they’re not using it as a school. And the whole thing about proof of concept is very neighborhood specific In other words, if you put a dog park in the woods somewhere, no one would care. Mm-hmm. But it is backing up to houses on Susan Road and so forth, so you have to… Proving it at another location would mean nothing to me. Mm-hmm.

1:19:16 Even if you had a similar type, like on an outlet with all those houses behind it? I agree with Jim. It’s- Yeah. It’s, there’s a million variables. There’s so many variables. Yeah, that makes sense. But you haven’t talked to the neighbors yet, right? So- We haven’t talked to neighbors … so it could be a non-starter … because if it wasn’t even, if it was- We’ve been taking notes. Yeah. If there was no point, I mean- Where’d you get the survey results on the dogs, of the dog park use? Open meeting. Right. Okay. So can we… It feels like, and again, opposites, however, it feels to me like we need to figure out the RF, what the RFP next. Mm-hmm. Right? As part of that. Yeah. And if you guys want to start working on this at the same time, I think the more information you have for us, the better- Yeah … is how I feel about it. I would just say that if anything is our job, to figure out what land we want to keep in the public domain is one of our top jobs. And I think we do have to figure that out a priori before we go out and sell the entire lot and have a developer with a usage plan. So it’s going to be a very different concept. Go ahead, Karen. Can I just say two things? One, please, when you say open land, say public open land or public space- Public space … and not just open space, because we want to make sure public has access. Yeah. That’s right. And two, if this land in the future becomes the property, of the care of Recreation and Parks Department, like every other Recreation and Parks Department piece of

1:20:49 property that we care for, it is our job to make sure that whatever we put on our properties is good for the neighbors, is good for anyone. In the past it doesn’t come under the Selectboard. It’s only under the Selectboard now because you guys own it. So what you’re saying there is you’re actually asking for the land, not necessarily the use. I mean, it might be a dog park. Somewhere. Right. Well, it’s all the town. If… Yeah. Well, but under the care- Under the administration Yeah Jurisdiction We could go down that street and every neighbor says, “No way,” and then that could be a dead thing. But then we have options. We can do something else. I don’t know, build a splash pad. Who knows? I live in that neighborhood- Okay … it’s all together. Yeah, I have a difficult time responding- Okay … because I’m listening to your conversation about the RFP, and I have an opinion on the way you should go with it, and it’s- Okay. Yeah. So I shouldn’t. Okay. So, I think what I… How would you guys like to move forward with this? I mean, we don’t have a vote tonight. It wasn’t an action item. So- Hey, no problem. Yeah. I don’t think we need to vote to allow them- I don’t think so … to use flag football and- No … continue the regular use. And cut the lawn. Yeah, we’ll let you cut the lawn. Yeah. I mean, thank you. Mow the lawn. Yeah. I mean, that’s not changing the use in any way. No, it’s not. It’s not changing it in any way. Thank you. Guys. Hey, Mr. Jordan, please. Thank you. So, I mean, does everybody agree that they’re fine- Yeah, I don’t think they need our permission … with the use of the property and care of it- I agree … as it is, exists now? Yeah. And it’ll- Yep. So if we have a meeting down there- Nothing changes … it’s okay? If we have a meeting? You meet away. Thank you. Go for it.

1:22:19 Thank you. Thank you, guys, for coming. All right, you guys- Thanks for the work … I really appreciate it. Thank you. Have a good night. All right, next up we have, moving on, number six, town administrator search process update. We have in our packet, had Thatcher put together since he’s done this a little more, some timelines and some potential items here, and these are just for discussion only, obviously. This looks great. So, I think moving back… Thank you, all. I think moving backwards and talking about this, I think we discussed last time that if we’re looking to have a new town administrator by year-end, that likely someone’s going to have to give a couple months notice. So we’re looking, in theory, to hopefully end this process or hire someone by October, which is sort of- Yeah … where that ends, working backwards, is sort of how we’re looking at it. And then our first step is to really start to look for quotes first. In my opinion, search for quotes for services. So someone to hire to help us with the search. So I think that that’s really our first step here, is to bring them in and to work with them, and then we can decide about whether we use a search committee. I know that the school committee did that in the past, I think, when you guys hired Thatcher. Let’s call it an interview committee, not necessarily someone to- Screening … screening. Thank you. Screening committee. Yeah. A screening committee, and we can decide. I don’t think we have to decide that tonight. We know the people last time. No, clearly not. We won’t use those same people. Not on the Fourth of July luck. And I think we can discuss that next. I think tonight

1:23:51 I would like to see us start the process of seeking quotes for a search service, and then we can- So is that a motion for an RFP then or? Yeah. I mean, I think it’s not necessarily an RFP because it’s a government. Some of these are… Yeah, but it’s really to put out- And it’s under 50,000. It’s going to be about 15, great. Yeah. So it’s just seeking quotes. Okay. So it’s an administrative process. And we would still use procurement office- Yeah … under the- So Allison will put it out. Yeah. To get somebody in, and then we can figure out who we want to use. So it’s like first up, and then I think probably some of this changes on the timeline once we decide who we want to use, right? Yeah. This is a general timeline. This is a very general- It’s great. Yep. No, that’s super helpful though. I think we can move it along. Okay. Probably fair. Okay. So discussion on that. I mean, it seems pretty straightforward. Let’s get some quotes in. I don’t know how long that usually takes. Can take time. I’m assuming they’re pretty basic price and the services they’re going to provide. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. It’s pretty formula- Okay … stage. All right. We need to vote on that or just? I don’t think we even need to vote on it. Okay. I- It’s just administrative function. Just making sure we’re on the same page, that that’s what we should do. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay. I actually thought it had already been- It’s reasoning … but I guess not. You thought what? I thought it had already been started, but that’s fine. I think that there was some paperwork put together. We just wanted to go out with it. All right So, we good with that? Yep. Yep. Perfect. All right, moving on. This is one of those fun ones. We did have a request. Oh, yeah. We have Edmund Bolus is turning 100 years

1:25:23 old on July 9th, and we have a request for a proclamation. We do have a little information in here and the proclamation. I think I’ll highlight some of it just in the public here. And Ned, it looks like he is better known as Ned. He did a semester at Yale University before being deployed in Japan during the occupation, and then he did come back under the GI Bill to continue his studies, and he graduated with a degree in economics in the class of 1950. He did start his career in Amsterdam, New York, and it looks like he and his wife, Anne, who grew up in West Newton, moved to Marblehead in 1960, where they had their daughter, Louise, and their son, David. And they’ve lived at 34 Franklin Street, and he has four grandchildren. I won’t give their names. Mark, Eric, Davey, and Nera. And he’s a longtime lifelong sailor, skier, and has been practicing those two sports all the way into his 90s, skiing around White Mountains and North Conway. And it looks like he’s spent a lot of time at the Eastern Yacht Club on race committee, nominating committee, and I think if I’m correct, he is now in The Mariner. So it’ll be for the first centenarian at The Mariner. And

1:26:54 so, we do have a proclamation here. I’ll read that, “Now therefore, on the occasion of Edmund P. Bolus’ 100th year birthday anniversary, the Select Board, by this proclamation, and with all good wishes and high regard, recognizes Edmund ‘Ned’ Bolus as an honorable centenarian of the town of Marblehead.” So moved. Awesome. So moved. Thank you. So moved. Excellent. Good genes, Louise. Exactly. We have a move. Do we have a second? Second. Second. All in favor. All right. Happy birthday, Pam, and thank you for bringing that to us. Appreciate it. Mm-hmm. Next up we have last- When does he turn? When is the birthday? July 9th. Tomorrow. Oh, it’s tomorrow. Yep. So, do you need one of us to read it to them? I think the party. It’s a party tomorrow, or is it later? Yes. Or- Mariner Two. Okay. Anybody volunteer to do that? Mariner Two, tomorrow. I’m happy to do it, if- The nomination is so taken … the chair- Nope … the chair- Nope … as first priority. Listen, we’re a democracy here. You all volunteered. You seem to know the family, and- Yes … you’re a lot closer- 100% … you’re a lot closer to his age than I am. That’s true, too. So that makes more sense. That’s true. Not a lot. Yep. Oh, let’s be careful, yeah. Yeah. That would mean a lot. Yep. Great. No. So 2:00, the Mariner Club. Love to do that. Great. 100%. Thank you guys for doing that. Next up, last meeting, we approved the lease, with the North Shore Medical Center. We need to just do an assignment that needs to be assigned

1:28:25 from the North Shore Medical Center, doing business as Salem Hospital, to Mass General Brigham. We just need to do an amendment to that. And people have questions, but it seems like a pretty straightforward assignment. So if I get a motion that the board approve and authorize the chair to execute the assignment and assumption agreement as it relates to lease of 1 Ridget Road, and in which the North Shore Medical Center, Inc., doing business as Salem Hospital, assigns its rights under the lease to Mass General Brigham Medical Group, Northeastern Mass Inc. So moved. Second. All in favor. We have a few consent agenda items. If I get a motion to approve the following consent agenda items subject to usual rules, regs, fees, and receipt of acquired certificate of insurance and minutes of May 13th, 2026, and June 24th, 2026, and the Glovers Marble Regiment Annual Encampment use of Fort Sewall from July 17th to the 19th, 2026. So moved. Second. All in favor. Looks like we have a one-day liquor license for Marblehead Little Theater on August 1st. If I could have a motion to approve the application from Marblehead Little Theater at 12 School Street for a one-day liquor license on August 1st, 2026, 7:00 PM to 10:00 PM, subject to the following conditions: delivery of and receipt by the licensing authority of the required fee, $50; delivery of and receipt by the licensing authority of proof that alcohol will be purchased from an authorized source; proof that the applicant can receive proper delivery, provide proper storage, and disposal of all alcoholic beverages purchased all in accordance with requirements of GLC 138;

1:29:58 authorized distributor to be determined before license is released; and alcohol will be purchased from Bent Water Brewing Company. So moved. Second. All vote. Ms. Ferrante? In favor. Mr. Zisson? In favor. Ms. Noonan? In favor. Mr. Grady? In favor. Mr. Foss? In favor. Anybody have any select board announcements? I have one. Actually, right before the 4th of July holiday, Phil Blaisdell, Dean Kuznar, and a few others cleaned up the garden beds down by the landing, which had gotten overgrown. Mm-hmm. And Phil being Phil was going to push to restore those to greatness. So they’d really kind of got messy, but hats off to them. Yeah. I think Dean had his crew down there on July 2nd in the blazing heat, just ripping stuff out. And Phil has also engaged the owners of the landing, and I think there’s going to be a lot of momentum behind that, so that’s a good thing. That’s great. So Dean’s done a lot down there over the years. Dean’s done a lot for the town over the years. Dean Kuznar’s done a lot. Yeah. And I think you and I have discussed this- Yeah … but working on getting them a water… It’s not called a water line, but a sprinkler line over there- Yeah … so that they have water. That’s great. We worked that out with- Yeah. Great idea … DPW last year. Yeah. So we need to follow up with that because if he works that hard, we should have water to keep those plants alive. Yeah. So we’ll continue with that. Yeah, thank you. Anybody else? Go ahead. I was wondering if we’re interested in sending a

1:31:30 letter of appreciation to the Marblehead Festival of Arts committee on the 250th successful festival. They dealt with the heat wave and a lot went into that. They had to pivot here and there, and there was some shortage of volunteers. I don’t know how they pulled it off, but being the 250th and just what a success it was. So moved. Second. All in favor? Yep. Yep. Do we have a motion to adjourn? So moved. Second. Yep. Yep. All right. Thank you. That’s a good one. I like that. Yep. That’s our new thing. All right. On my computer at work, with one of the individuals who I have who’s in a wheelchair at the dog park when it’s not handicap accessible. It’s not. I have been at work, but it took forever to get somebody. Yeah. And especially now that you don’t have that access point. It’s hard. I don’t think there’s any question we need a new dog park. Yeah. But it needs a new one. There’s no question of that. It’s just where and when and how. Yeah. Yep. I think sometimes- Yes.